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Ndubs
Amarr
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:43:00 -
[1]
Does anyone else feel that the working of local chat is not only unrealistic but also a real tactical disadvantage? IÆm sure all the pirates out there are feeling me on this one and would love to be able to jump in a system without anyone knowing about it, but IÆm also thinking there may be some people in empire wars that are getting annoyed by it aswell with the addition of icong on war targets avatars.
Now donÆt get me wrong, it helps me out big time having it because IÆm an active empire PvPÆer and now I can spot potential WTÆs within seconds rather than right clicking everyonÆes profiles, but I still think you should have the option of not appearing in local chat when you enter a system.
Lets roleplay this a little; The fact that my in game character canÆt avoid being detected when entering a new system because my avatar appears in a social chat window for gamers to interact is crap in my opinion. IÆm not saying take it away. There would be times I would like to have this activated when IÆm in Empire (rarely although if IÆm honest), but I do think it creates a not only annoying, but massively unrealistic disability to anonymity and moving through systems.
If it was taken away, I can absolutely appreciate it would be a pain in the ass to watch your back in low sec, but surely there is a more realistic way of doing this? Could we create drones / sensors that detect ships moving within a certain AU of your ship when youÆre low sec ratting / mining?? I donÆt know, this is just stuff IÆm thinking as IÆm typing.
Please can we try to keep this constructive and objective. No con PvPÆers whining that pirates already have it too easy or anything. Put your agenda aside and think about the game mechanics.
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Kamazani
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:54:00 -
[2]
umm no. I understand your concerns, but I honestly think you need to consider the fact that piracy has always been out of control and it's on the fence between grief-ing and proper gameplay. it's not just you, it's the pirate career as a whole.
look, I understand that piracy can be a very interesting career choice and quite exhilarating, but there are far too many players who would do anything to cheat or exploit just to feel superior in any which way they can. there has to be some restrictions as pirates have had a lot of leeway given to them (probes boost, blah blah blah) the carebear should still be informed of the pirates presence.
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by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44
whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman? |
Ndubs
Amarr
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 15:58:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ndubs on 01/12/2006 16:01:03
Edited by: Ndubs on 01/12/2006 15:59:50
So you're saying that to give people a chance of not being killed when they have already made the choice to go into a low security system, we should keep in place a wholly unrealistic local chat system?
Tt doesn't really stack up imo. Low sec is dangerous and is meant to be that way. The problem is that CCP have not built in enough rewards to justify people going there.
Rather than keeping the unrealistic local chat system, we should go about it the other way. Change it and make going into low sec worth the risk of losing your ship, because atm it really isn't.
Also keeping people who are scared to lose their ship safe in low sec doesn't really justify the HUGE affect it has now had on empire wars. There is no anonymity for anybody.
EDIT - Also piracy has never been over the top or bordering on griefing. That;'s just garbage. CCP built it into the game in a deliberate fashion.
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Kamazani
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:07:00 -
[4]
okay with that in mind, what difference does it make anyway? with the new probing system people will start moving back into high sec. it's not definite that people will do a mass exodus from low sec to high sec.
anyway, using Role play.... piracy is against the law, yer the bad guy, anything goes, being a pirate and avoiding the cops isn't suppose to be easy. just be happy just your sec status shows instead of your picture flashing red each time you come into local.
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by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44
whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman? |
Skawl
GeoTech
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:14:00 -
[5]
I agree with the OP to be honest
As we're playing a sci fi game with laser guns, warp drives and cloning, I'll not talk about 'realism' but rather 'plausability'.
It doesn't feel plausible that our 'whos in system' information comes from a chat channel to me.
That said, as it is our best source of info about the system we are in, I welcome the addition of the standings to the local list.
I would like it to be possible to leave local but only if a similar system is implemented that feels more plausible e.g. as the op suggests sensor system or similar automatically warns you when a ship comes into scanner range.
I think I'd actually prefer that when ratting - I usually choose an empty system and just safespot if someone I don't know comes in system meaning even if people are just passing through I waste time moving to a safe (yes, I'm paranoid but I've never lost a ship while ratting!). If it alerted me when someone was close rather than just in system I'd end up safespotting less.
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Ndubs
Amarr
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:14:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Kamazani
okay with that in mind, what difference does it make anyway? with the new probing system people will start moving back into high sec. it's not definite that people will do a mass exodus from low sec to high sec.
anyway, using Role play.... piracy is against the law, yer the bad guy, anything goes, being a pirate and avoiding the cops isn't suppose to be easy. just be happy just your sec status shows instead of your picture flashing red each time you come into local.
I think you're missing the point somewhat. This isn't about making life easier for pirates, it's about having an unrealistic system rethought. Engaging in a local chat channel does not mean you should all of a sudden let everyone see who you are, your history etc... it should be a choice. Interaction is important but not to the detriment of realism and game mechanics.
Your thinking isn't going beyond "That would make it so much easier for pirates". This extends to empire wars, and just generally not wanting people to know you're in a system.
I mean it's just such a crazy system. What? Your covert ops ship with covert cloak can move through systems undetected, but watch out because it involuntarily logs into the local chat window so the human controlling you can speak to people who are playing in the same system.
It needs a rethink.
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Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:23:00 -
[7]
if you want to add realism to it think about this then. When you enter a system you have to pass trough a stargate. Say now that everyone in that system is linked to the stargets in that system, and when someone enters that system they will show up in that link showed trough local.
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Kamazani
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:23:00 -
[8]
well, somehow I doubt it'll change, if it does, mark my words I'll hand you 50m isk. =)
I, for one, am glad it's there because It's impossible to trust people. yo ho ho that's the pirate's life for you, empire war or not.
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by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44
whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman? |
Ndubs
Amarr
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Kamazani
well, somehow I doubt it'll change, if it does, mark my words I'll hand you 50m isk. =)
I, for one, am glad it's there because It's impossible to trust people. yo ho ho that's the pirate's life for you, empire war or not.
I smell an agenda.
I don't need 50 mil isk and I'm not a pirate.
To the other poster; I refuse to accept the stargates in every system (including 0.0) would have built into it a communicative system that would enable all the people in the system to know of new arrivals, read their bios and know all about the char.
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Kamazani
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ndubs
Originally by: Kamazani
well, somehow I doubt it'll change, if it does, mark my words I'll hand you 50m isk. =)
I, for one, am glad it's there because It's impossible to trust people. yo ho ho that's the pirate's life for you, empire war or not.
I smell an agenda.
I don't need 50 mil isk and I'm not a pirate.
To the other poster; I refuse to accept the stargates in every system (including 0.0) would have built into it a communicative system that would enable all the people in the system to know of new arrivals, read their bios and know all about the char.
haha, okay. That's fine but putting all role play aside.... please remember it's just a game. =)
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by: GinoShin on 21/11/2006 11:41:44
whats evemon is it like a jamican wiseman? |
James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:39:00 -
[11]
Ok, I'm sorry, but you're still trying to drag plausibility into this without changing everything else.
Here's plausibility: you commit crimes, destroy ships, kill thousands of people in the process. CONCORD would never ever let you into high sec ever again. Empire's would hunt you down. Sentry guns would be programmed to shoot you on sight. Your only refuge would be cold 0.0 and those few stations owned by people you could convince to take you in.
I'm happy to discuss massively overhauling local, sensors etc. but I can guarantee that at the end of the day you'll still not like it.
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Ndubs
Amarr
Privateers
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: James Duar
Here's plausibility: you commit crimes, destroy ships, kill thousands of people in the process. CONCORD would never ever let you into high sec ever again. Empire's would hunt you down. Sentry guns would be programmed to shoot you on sight. Your only refuge would be cold 0.0 and those few stations owned by people you could convince to take you in.
Is that not basically meant to be the life of a -5.0 life pirate? Their only refuge isn;t 0.0 but thats only because the sentry guns in low sec are too piddly to deal with them. Concord evidently don't have a want/need to guard the areas like they do high sec.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2006.12.01 16:51:00 -
[13]
Speaking as someone who's been involved in the odd Empire war here and there, I don't really see a problem with the local channel as it is.
I can see my enemies, my enemies can see me.
If anyone doesn't want to be seen, they can always sit in the system next door.
Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori
It's great being Amarr, ain't it? |
Amarria Lightwielder
N.A.G.A Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Ndubs
To the other poster; I refuse to accept the stargates in every system (including 0.0) would have built into it a communicative system that would enable all the people in the system to know of new arrivals, read their bios and know all about the char.
Then you refuse to believe in logic.
A stargate is a device that make you into some electronic signal and builds you up again on the other side. If it can do that, you don't think it could find out who you are?
I think it's good the way it is now, it relieves DB pressure since people don't need to have enemies in their adressbook, and for realism I think its just fine.
Another aproach can be, when you jump trough stargates you need an access code to activate the stargate and make it transport you. That access code is directly connected to your character, and when you appear on the other side that stargate sends your info to everyone in the system.
In reality there are lots of ways a stargate network can keep track of you, it needs to de-moleculize (typo?) your body, so it can read your dna etc etc...
In the end, if you want to argue the fact, there's really no point
Teh NAGA ShopÖ |
Sever Aldaria
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:36:00 -
[15]
I agree with the OP. Makes empire wars more difficult with the element of surprise being taken away with standings in local. At least for 0.0, perhaps its possible to show a count of how many in local or just not show players names/portraits/standings in local.
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Sgt Napalm
ISS Navy Task Force
Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:41:00 -
[16]
NOT signed
Long live local
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Daos Leghki
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:48:00 -
[17]
Hmm, and I refuse to think that a stargate owner wouldn't keep track of who's entered and left the system.
I mean really, this is just like every other Remove Local thread. We've heard the arguments, and just remember that it gives the advantage to the attacker even more.
Finally, before you think of realism, think of gameplay. Real life isn't balanced and isn't interesting. This is a game meant to be both.
Repopulate Low-Sec
Paxton Industries is Recruiting
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Agrias Hellion
Diligentia Sodalitas
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Posted - 2006.12.01 17:57:00 -
[18]
Being a non-pirate type person I would rather have local being blank.
I can't see them, but they can't see me.
As it stands, pirates, bad people and peeps at war know who is in a system and can determine whether to stay and scan for targets.
Now without local, they take a chance. They can scan down the whole system and have a chance of finding someone or move on. Of course this might provoke more time spent gate camping.
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Mark Amarr
Wingrove Weapons Systems
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Posted - 2006.12.01 18:09:00 -
[19]
Interesting thread.
I think the stargate info relay idea is entirely resonable, in fact that sort of information sharing is so entirely achievable it's one of the few concepts in the game we could actually achieve today in real life.
There are already things like national police databases in loads of countries, and our (the UK's) planned road pricing system will monitor by-the-mile where you go, which not only charges you per mile, but also knows at any given moment where you are - and therefore that information can be made available to anyone with access to that database.
On that basis I think local should stay, if only because it is SO feasible (and believe me, there are sometimes when this would not go in my personal favour!)
However, there is an interesting idea that my reference to data information access throws up.....This information currently found in local is information we all, regardless of who we are, have access to.
But not everyone has access to police databases, or road pricing databases - maybe for storyline purposes there is room for some manoeuvre.
How about in npc controlled space everyone in system has all information available as the present situation, but in space where a given player-run organisation has achieved sovereignty, an inferred legacy of this would be control over information database access from the stargates that they now have sovereignty over.
In a nutshell - you can set, via standings who gets to see local and who doesn't on your turf (up to the point where someone speaks in local, then their presence is revealed to all).
It would be an interesting advantage, and a reward miles better than a pos fuel bonus for claiming sovereignty of some space!
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