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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
690
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Posted - 2015.07.24 13:34:06 -
[31] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Another explorer whine thread? Since the introduction of mini-game exploration, this is the only real fit you need so to win at exploration. I miss the old explorer threads.
honestly that is the best way to make isk - shoot the explorers and take their sister launchers ftw.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
145
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Posted - 2015.07.24 14:59:47 -
[32] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:Hadrian Blackstone wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:[quote=Ellatte Silversong] Data sites aren't that lucrative sure, but when all you need is a Cov Ops frigate with a cloak and probe launcher, it's not exactly much risk either. If it's so low risk why even bother with the cloak? Like a cloaky Tengu who has already scanned down the sites waiting for you to uncloak in your frigate never happens... never How about a Proteus? Will that do?
A Proteus, for what? There's hardly any risk, remember? |
Ellatte Silversong
Drastic Measures. Solyaris Chtonium
5
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Posted - 2015.07.24 15:20:38 -
[33] - Quote
"Actually I had a pretty good idea of the time. The point was to get you saying how long it took you to make 20 million. Half an hour. Not 6-8 hours. It took you half an hour to do 4 data sites for 20 million. You openly said you found a bunch more during that time but chose not to run them.
So you are complaining that you ignored money in front of you because you wanted different money, then never found the different money. Data sites aren't that lucrative sure, but when all you need is a Cov Ops frigate with a cloak and probe launcher, it's not exactly much risk either."
No, you don't have a good point. Finding 4 data sites in 1 system is rare. Normally you have to fly around a bunch to find them and only foolish people run sites in systems that are not empty. That is how you lose your ship. You can also find 7 or 8 empty systems in a row, which means there is nothing. I might only find 10 sites in 3 hours- which comes out to maybe 80 million, as I stated. That is terrible ISK per hour, especially compared to Relic sites or High sec mission running.
You don't just fly from data site to data site. You have to find and scan them down, which takes a lot of time.
Like I stated, Cov Ops frigs have issues in null. They die to good bubble camps, or if caught by a Interdictor if they make a mistake. In both of these scenarios, you will also lose your POD. They will not survive the harder sleeper cache sites, you need a T3 to do them safely get around Null.
The fact that people are simply leaving the data sites proves my point. If they were worth doing, people would do them.
One other thing, bring up an issue is how things get fixed, it's not complaining. If I post over and over about it, that would be complaining. |
Borascus
651
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Posted - 2015.07.31 07:23:58 -
[34] - Quote
Arguably, the covert research anoms have the option to be run in an Ibis with prop and hacker mod.
These are usually 30mil before the pop shot, I ran a loot 2 cans warp out strategy after losing an astero to my first.
That earns more ISK, even with flight time, compared to data sites.
The previous posts about looting the good stuff and leaving the site active is an area that is important.
I disagree with the sleeper site combat focus, all 3 were run in an astero, you have to cherry pick what you loot and it's selfish to do them when you can't finish the site, but it's 10-50mil for limited, 50-200mil for standard 70-500mil for superior in an astero. Hard finding them though, every low-sec island seemed to have station dwellers that undock to find them.
It can be done though.
For limited; all cans, standard; skip the turret area by mwd up when exterminators deploy, then mwd back to the teleport near the array, superior; warp in move past sentry room to aligner room, loot aligner cans using aligned ray and small armor rep 2 + eanm 2 for the ISK values mentioned.
Possible even with level 3 hacking / analyzer skills (t1 mods) |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
974
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Posted - 2015.07.31 09:14:26 -
[35] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:You can have a low barrier to proficiency with **** drops or a high barrier with good drops, you can't have both. So how do relic sites fit into this paradigm in comparison with data?
****** drops isn't the problem, it's the fact that FW stores make data loot and some older professions irrelevant. This isn't the case for items relics drop.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
156
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Posted - 2015.07.31 09:31:19 -
[36] - Quote
Ellatte Silversong wrote: This is terrible. I could easily have farmed over 400 million doing level 4 missions, which is boring as hell.
I think this is an important point here. You chose to do exploration sites because you enjoy them more than missions. You further said that you are earning your ISK mainly by station trding with another toon. I fail to see aproblem here. You enoy what you do and don't even need the money.
What exactly is your point? It's impossible to balance all professions so all are making the same amount if ISK/h. |
Commander Spurty
Dimension Door We need wards.
1534
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Posted - 2015.07.31 09:52:22 -
[37] - Quote
On the flip side, I now have a huge stack of Carbon to produce crappy Charon contracts with 8-/
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Spurty
Dimension Door We need wards.
1534
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Posted - 2015.07.31 09:52:22 -
[38] - Quote
On the flip side, I now have a huge stack of Carbon to produce crappy Charon contracts with 8-/
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
468
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Posted - 2015.07.31 11:33:34 -
[39] - Quote
My only take on this is spawn rates of sites. I realize that likely only CCP knows for certain if relics despawned by finishing or other methods spawn other relics only and datas spawn more datas only. If your finding far to many data sites there is a possibility that both datas and relics spawn other data and relics, perhaps 50/50, and as more relics get done and despawn the chance of another data, which arent being run, gets higher until there are nothing but datas kicking around until either the datas are run or despawned to spawn more relic/datas.
Tbh this ideology would make sense from a programming standpoint to prevent too much relic loot from entering the economy and reducing isk/hr by making data sites the "fluff" and ****** sites on purpose and create a dynamic style of seeding. So frankly if this is the case then your whining about data sites in general means its working.
This is much like the idea when drone sites were **** and noone was doing them. Almost every scanned site was a drone site someone didnt want to do and had left open. But if the aggregate amount of sites open in any region or area was a combination of any style of site it meant that until done they would increase in number over time.
But this is just an idea at best. Remember CCP trolls the hardest....
Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace
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Rawthorm
D.M.T inc Circle-Of-Two
55
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:46:31 -
[40] - Quote
The issue with Data sites is a mix of them originally containing items for invention that never expired, leading to market saturation. This then got compounded by half the loot they drop now being defunct. I'm sure once some new release calls for new components, CCP will thread them into Data sites making them worth while again. Until then, there isn't a single thing that can be done about it unless they find a way to drastically ramp up demand for what little the sites give. |
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Xearal
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
944
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Posted - 2015.07.31 13:04:17 -
[41] - Quote
Another problem with data sites is cargo, while relic sites and combat sites require only very little cargo to hold all your valuables, filling up your cargo on data goes very very quickly. And it's all low value so a full cargohold will be worth far less than if you did relic/combats.
When I go out scanning, I do run data's from time to time, if nothing else is available. but usually when I do that, i have to return quicky becuse my hold is ful, whereas when I'm running Relics, after a good run, I'll still have plenty of cargo space, while the value is enough for me to go back and secure my loots.
Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
771
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Posted - 2015.07.31 13:06:31 -
[42] - Quote
Damjan Fox wrote:I guess, removing Data Cores from LP stores should fix the problem.
Gudd idea! So next time you'll go to your next tradehub that stealth bomber or recon ship only cost 10 times more than ever. What could go wrong?
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Aladar Dangerface
13. Enigma Project
202
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:02:42 -
[43] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Damjan Fox wrote:I guess, removing Data Cores from LP stores should fix the problem. Gudd idea! So next time you'll go to your next tradehub that stealth bomber or recon ship only cost 10 times more than ever. What could go wrong? There would be a spike sure but then demand would be met as people went out to run the data sites more and the price would fall again.
I don't need twitter.
I'm already following you.
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Phoenix Jones
Isogen 5
1520
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:08:02 -
[44] - Quote
Honestly CCP should allow players to build implants from loot from data sites. Create bpc's for every implant and allow explorers to get them and potentially build them.
I'd dump all of that into data sites.
Low grades from highsec/lowsec/c1 and c2 wormholes, mid grades from lowsec/nullsec/c2-c4 wormholes, high grades from nullsec/shattered wormholes.
Yaay!!!!
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Beta Maoye
68
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Posted - 2015.07.31 19:08:23 -
[45] - Quote
Yes, data sites are far less valuable than relic sites. If most players skip data sites, half of the exploration contents are wasted. Poor loots might be related to the assumptions the reward mechanism based on. Please review those rules and make data sites fun again. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1532
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Posted - 2015.07.31 19:41:56 -
[46] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Damjan Fox wrote:I guess, removing Data Cores from LP stores should fix the problem. Gudd idea! So next time you'll go to your next tradehub that stealth bomber or recon ship only cost 10 times more than ever. What could go wrong? We already know this won't happen because prices didn't vary that much in the downward direction when they were added to FW LP stores. If the proposition involves removing R&D agents then maybe we'll see a significant change in price depending on drop rates. If not then that's a big buff to R&D agent income, however you may feel about that. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
976
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Posted - 2015.07.31 20:48:58 -
[47] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:We already know this won't happen because prices didn't vary that much in the downward direction when they were added to FW LP stores. If the proposition involves removing R&D agents then maybe we'll see a significant change in price depending on drop rates. If not then that's a big buff to R&D agent income, however you may feel about that. I'm afraid we know how CCP feel about that though. And it isn't pretty. Honestly, it's market niche that needs fixing, not data sites.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Karl Jerr
Herzack Unit
103
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Posted - 2015.07.31 21:11:04 -
[48] - Quote
Hal Morsh wrote:Isk per hour isn't always the most important thing ever. This 1,000 times.
Yesterday I dusted off my explo ship and did 4 sites in one lowsec system, the most lazy way; 2 data site, 2 relic. First time I seen this. In about 20 min I made 10 millions. Was it worth my game time? Yup that was fun. And 10 millions pays one monthly rent of one of my office. |
Zen Dad
Doped Player's Inc.
290
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Posted - 2015.07.31 21:22:43 -
[49] - Quote
OP is right and wrong - Data sites are crap. but exploration is still good.
Null sec Sansha Relics can yield great isk - but you have to be quick and work hard.
Bend over a Relic can too long and someone will have your pants down.
OP must try harder. |
ISD FlowingSpice
ISD STAR
8
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Posted - 2015.08.01 10:15:34 -
[50] - Quote
Moved from General Discussion to Features & Ideas Discussion. |
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1737
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Posted - 2015.08.01 10:52:05 -
[51] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:It came to my mind recently that Relic sites should never again drop skill books. Skill books, especially the 10M science books, are very valuable and add significantly to the overall reward of a site. Skill books are also basically data and code that is implanted into our brains. It would be only natural to remove them from relic sites and have them drop exclusively in Data sites, making data sites more unique and actually worth running or at least give something for cherrypickers.
Furthermore, the mini games should be different from each other. It has been suggested many times and also agreed on by CCP that the grid should not consist of only one final node, but many treasure caches. Reduce the number of cans in the sites and have only a couple with larger grids that you need to explore fully to get to the good stuff. This could be applied only to relic sites as it makes more sense in my opinion to search through lots of different rooms/corners/caches in a ruin or rubble to uncover hidden treasures than in a databank where the good stuff is basically stored in one secure vault protected by counter measures.
Lastly, I would very much like to see CCP pick up the dropped project they demonstrated in the 2012 (or was it 2013) player gathering in Berlin. They demonstrated a rough prototype of actually entering a ruins (either in person or via a drone) and maneuver through a maze grid with counter measures and obstacles towards the treasure chest. Quoted from here, which also makes this thread redundant.
As much as it pains me, but CCP is neither willing nor capable of improving Data sites and they are more likely to just phase them out with the introduction of the respective new player structure where you can farm them instead of making data sites better. Personally, and as said in the same thread, I like data sites as they make me independent from the market and allow me to fuel my inventions without having to buy datacores or decryptors. If you are just after sales value of datacores and decryptors, you better ignore data sites completely. However, in my opinion, you should not sell them but rather use them for your own or your corp's industry ambitions. The more people that run these sites and decrease the dependency of your activities from Jita, the more valuable the sites become to your activities.
But this would again require effort and reduce convenience. It is after all so much easier to just import from Jita, bicker about lack of reward and demand changes to increase reward instead of changing behavior.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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