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TerminalDogma press release regarding Jamyl Sarum I

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Will Gauss TerminalDogma New Eden Research Coalition 31	Posted - 2015.07.25 21:31:25 - [1] - Quote FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Today at a speech in public space, Matshi Raish arrived representing the Society of Conscious Thought in a Gnosis vessel. Jamyl Sarum I was present in public space in an Avatar class titan. Mentor Raish engaged in scanning activities on the Empress' Avatar, an action which is completely lawful. Sarum attempted to order Raish to cease the scan, and Raish cited as justification the right to investigate existential threats to the cluster. The implication is that the Society of Conscious Thought, and by extension the Jove Directorate believes either Jamyl Sarum or her Avatar class titan is an existential threat to the cluster. Sarum, following Raish confirming he was done and would be leaving, chose to order Raish murdered anyway. This lawless behavior indicates Sarum is not as she seems. Given the benevolence shown by the Directorate in the past, New Eden Research coalition aligns its statements with those of SoCT and the Directorate in considering Jamyl Sarum and anyone who takes her orders an existential threat to the cluster.
Equ1n0x TerminalDogma New Eden Research Coalition 2	Posted - 2015.07.25 21:37:55 - [2] - Quote Any uncertainty about the claims ought be discarded after the Empress' reckless actions today. If anything, her onslaught against a peaceful SoCT inquirer only affirms that an investigation under the ninth codicil is not only warranted but necessary to ensure stability.
Makoto Priano Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 7354	Posted - 2015.07.25 21:41:00 - [3] - Quote With due respect, the Society can only represent itself. We have heard nothing from any representative of the Directorate for some years, and so cannot presume that a non-Jove member of the Society speaks for the Jove. What's more, at present we do not know if the Elder Mentor Raish was acting independently or on behalf of the Society. Still, the downing of a Society vessel who had not aggressed the Imperial task force is a cause for serious concern. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
Lucas Raholan Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 187	Posted - 2015.07.25 22:29:17 - [4] - Quote The Actions carried out by the Empress were well within Imperial law, the SOCT committed a prohibited assault on the Empress and was swiftly removed for their transgression, I'm sure if I flew up to President Roden and started trying to mindlink with his ships systems the Black Eagles would promptly blast me out of space as well. Those who insinuate that The empress is the side of wrong in this as far as I'm concerned is a enemy of the Empire Shitposts so bad CONCORD gave me a 50 billion ISK bounty
Auris Black WiNGSPAN Delivery Services 3	Posted - 2015.07.26 00:57:19 - [5] - Quote Lucas Raholan wrote: Those who insinuate that The empress is the side of wrong in this as far as I'm concerned is a enemy of the Empire Then bring your ship around loyalist I for one will await the Report from the SoCT. If a threat was found then it is the duty of every member of the cluster to remove it no matter the position or Former importance of that threat. Leaders Can and will be replaced. The Drifters are coming, the wheels of the empires demise are turning, will you be crushed underneath capsuleer?
Saede Riordan Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 7716	Posted - 2015.07.26 01:10:37 - [6] - Quote So, is it hip to call Jamyl a zombie again? Or are we still ignoring that thing about how she's supposed to be dead so we can claim a 'miracle' happened? Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Andreus Ixiris Duty. 5448	Posted - 2015.07.26 01:52:55 - [7] - Quote Lucas Raholan wrote: the SOCT committed a prohibited assault on the Empress Scanning is not an assault prohibited by any CONCORD codicil, else any person using a cargo scanner would trigger a DED response. At the time Raish was shot, he had communicated compliance with the holdoff order and was in the process of retreating. Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all. Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus. Andreus Ixiris > ... Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Michael Pawlicki Aliastra Gallente Federation 26	Posted - 2015.07.26 01:55:46 - [8] - Quote Lucas Raholan wrote: The Actions carried out by the Empress were well within Imperial law, the SOCT committed a prohibited assault on the Empress and was swiftly removed for their transgression, I'm sure if I flew up to President Roden and started trying to mindlink with his ships systems the Black Eagles would promptly blast me out of space as well. Those who insinuate that The empress is the side of wrong in this as far as I'm concerned is a enemy of the Empire Even not being of Amarrian heritage I hold a great deal of respect for Her Highness, but if Methias was invoking the Ninth Codicie, I think that we should be VERY wary of the Empress, for all our sakes. I am incredibly conflicted as I write this. Something is afoot, but the last thing I want to do is make yest another Empire my enemy on accusation alone.
Sinjin Mokk Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration 316	Posted - 2015.07.26 02:01:45 - [9] - Quote Will Gauss wrote: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Today at a speech in public space, Matshi Raish arrived representing the Society of Conscious Thought in a Gnosis vessel. Jamyl Sarum I was present in public space in an Avatar class titan. Mentor Raish engaged in scanning activities on the Empress' Avatar, an action which is completely lawful. Sarum attempted to order Raish to cease the scan, and Raish cited as justification the right to investigate existential threats to the cluster. The implication is that the Society of Conscious Thought, and by extension the Jove Directorate believes either Jamyl Sarum or her Avatar class titan is an existential threat to the cluster. Sarum, following Raish confirming he was done and would be leaving, chose to order Raish murdered anyway. This lawless behavior indicates Sarum is not as she seems. Given the benevolence shown by the Directorate in the past, New Eden Research coalition aligns its statements with those of SoCT and the Directorate in considering Jamyl Sarum and anyone who takes her orders an existential threat to the cluster. The Empress of Amarr does not owe you an explanation. Take it up with CONCORD. Dark Amarr: Rumors!
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 559	Posted - 2015.07.26 02:11:17 - [10] - Quote Sinjin Mokk wrote: The Empress of Amarr does not owe you an explanation. Sure she does. She owes me a cup of coffee, too. That's my going rate for getting blown up at public ceremonies: a cup of coffee and an explanation on why some other guy was executed. I don't have any illusions that I'll get either, but you know, since I do have a standing fee for this sort of thing, I've sent off a copy of my billing invoice to her.
Lord Kailethre Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 187	Posted - 2015.07.26 02:39:16 - [11] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Sinjin Mokk wrote: The Empress of Amarr does not owe you an explanation. Sure she does. She owes me a cup of coffee, too. That's my going rate for getting blown up at public ceremonies: a cup of coffee and an explanation on why some other guy was executed. I don't have any illusions that I'll get either, but you know, since I do have a standing fee for this sort of thing, I've sent off a copy of my billing invoice to her. I'd give you the coffee, but it'd probably synthetic. And no one likes synthetic coffee.
Claudia Osyn Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan 1364	Posted - 2015.07.26 03:13:36 - [12] - Quote As long as this doesn't mean that I have to explain myself every time I shoot someone, I'm all for the inquiry..... A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 564	Posted - 2015.07.26 03:19:53 - [13] - Quote Claudia Osyn wrote: As long as this doesn't mean that I have to explain myself every time I shoot someone, I'm all for the inquiry..... I could be negotiated down to just buying me the cuppa.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2031	Posted - 2015.07.26 09:36:08 - [14] - Quote The SoCT may well claim that a single titan is an existential threat to the cluster, but I think that it's far more likely that they simply consider it an existential threat to them. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rivr Luzade Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi 1687	Posted - 2015.07.26 09:42:59 - [15] - Quote Andreus Ixiris wrote: Scanning is not an assault prohibited by any CONCORD codicil, else any person using a cargo scanner would trigger a DED response. At the time Raish was shot, he had communicated compliance with the holdoff order and was in the process of retreating. He used an Entosis Link on her ship, which, by definition, is a module designed to infiltrate, compromise and sabotage systems to gain control over them or the entire object. This is in absolutely no way comparable to traditional scanning modules such as cargo or ship scanners. Any comparison of the EL to these modules is naive. He had never communicated compliance with the request to cease and desist, nor has he ever shown any sign of moving to the requested distance from the titan. He only stopped linking the ship after he "learned what they wanted to learn". Even after that, he was not retreating, but idling around in relative proximity to the titan and fleet. Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1231	Posted - 2015.07.26 10:08:15 - [16] - Quote As far as I know, entosis modules do not hold any effect on capsuleer ships.
Borascus 637	Posted - 2015.07.26 13:59:18 - [17] - Quote Saede Riordan wrote: So, is it hip to call Jamyl a zombie again? Or are we still ignoring that thing about how she's supposed to be dead so we can claim a 'miracle' happened? For me, the issue is simple; the Amarrians have a rite of passage each Emperor has to take part in, the succession trials. The fact that Jamyl died is not the stumbling block for me, it's Jamyl's lengthy, and unexplained absence from God's domain that unhinges the miraculous return. We have seen, time and time again, attempts to modify CONCORD Pilot Licences. Arek'Jaalan's Site One : Antiquus was subject to attempts of criminal damage by pilots flying ships they had not been in possession of a pilot's licence long enough to operate. I'm also surprised a failure in the succession trials is good enough for the (albeit mighty) Amarr Empire, given their demands for sacred flesh. How can it be that a failure in the succession trials is still considered sacred. Jamyl failed the succession trial. Originally,that was God's will.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2037	Posted - 2015.07.26 15:05:17 - [18] - Quote Lyn Farel wrote: As far as I know, entosis modules do not hold any effect on capsuleer ships. As far as you know... Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2037	Posted - 2015.07.26 15:06:49 - [19] - Quote Borascus wrote: I'm also surprised a failure in the succession trials is good enough for the (albeit mighty) Amarr Empire, given their demands for sacred flesh. How can it be that a failure in the succession trials is still considered sacred. Jamyl failed the succession trial. Originally,that was God's will. God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Borascus 638	Posted - 2015.07.26 15:20:29 - [20] - Quote Rodj Blake wrote: Borascus wrote: I'm also surprised a failure in the succession trials is good enough for the (albeit mighty) Amarr Empire, given their demands for sacred flesh. How can it be that a failure in the succession trials is still considered sacred. Jamyl failed the succession trial. Originally,that was God's will. God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. The only reason I put this forward, with the utmost respect to you held within me Rodj Blake, is due to the Amarrian oversight in regards to finding out where The Empress was during those years. 'God: Reloaded' is a hard concept for me to grasp, although your faith is admirable. Luckily, I have not been left in a state of such uncertainty, allowing me to understand that my time is once only. Should I fail completely in that time it is up to my successors to reform in an effort to stick to the path our forebearers set out for us. I do not have such a weighty burden as leading the Amarr Empire, though. I wouldn't be expectant of my successors to become God when their choice becomes manifest reality.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 584	Posted - 2015.07.26 15:26:24 - [21] - Quote Rodj Blake wrote: God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. A fact far too many hardliners of your religion seem to forget, far too often.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2038	Posted - 2015.07.26 15:27:17 - [22] - Quote Borascus wrote: Rodj Blake wrote: Borascus wrote: I'm also surprised a failure in the succession trials is good enough for the (albeit mighty) Amarr Empire, given their demands for sacred flesh. How can it be that a failure in the succession trials is still considered sacred. Jamyl failed the succession trial. Originally,that was God's will. God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. The only reason I put this forward, with the utmost respect to you held within me Rodj Blake, is due to the Amarrian oversight in regards to finding out where The Empress was during those years. 'God: Reloaded' is a hard concept for me to grasp, although your faith is admirable. Luckily, I have not been left in a state of such uncertainty, allowing me to understand that my time is once only. Should I fail completely in that time it is up to my successors to reform in an effort to stick to the path our forebearers set out for us. I do not have such a weighty burden as leading the Amarr Empire, though. I wouldn't be expectant of my successors to become God when their choice becomes manifest reality. There was no such oversight. Just because you don't know the means by which the Empress returned, it does not automatically follow that the Theology Council and the Privy Council don't know. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Saede Riordan Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 7722	Posted - 2015.07.26 15:46:05 - [23] - Quote Oh well as long as the Theology Council and Privy Council know, then its clearly a miracle and evidence of God's divine will. There's definity nothing shady about that at all. Break the godflesh doctrine to ensure your chosen heir ended up on the throne? No, no, they definitely wouldn't do anything of the sort. Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 584	Posted - 2015.07.26 16:03:10 - [24] - Quote Saede Riordan wrote: Oh well as long as the Theology Council and Privy Council know, then its clearly a miracle and evidence of God's divine will. There's definity nothing shady about that at all. Break the godflesh doctrine to ensure your chosen heir ended up on the throne? No, no, they definitely wouldn't do anything of the sort. C'mon, credit them with some dignity and restraint here... clearly, they'd use a biosculpted double during the combat trials so that whoever killed themselves wasn't really Jamyl Sarum!
Andreus Ixiris Duty. 5455	Posted - 2015.07.26 16:20:25 - [25] - Quote Rodj Blake wrote: God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. And you can't be infallible with it. Rodj Blake wrote: [There was no such oversight. Just because you don't know the means by which the Empress returned, it does not automatically follow that the Theology Council and the Privy Council don't know. What if they don't know, Blake? What if she is just a clone? Would you dine on the innumerable words you've spoken in her defence and admit she's a fraud who duped you? Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all. Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus. Andreus Ixiris > ... Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2049	Posted - 2015.07.27 06:17:22 - [26] - Quote Andreus Ixiris wrote: Rodj Blake wrote: God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. And you can't be infallible with it. Actually, it is possible for an omnipotent god to be infallible whilst changing their mind. Quote: Rodj Blake wrote: [There was no such oversight. Just because you don't know the means by which the Empress returned, it does not automatically follow that the Theology Council and the Privy Council don't know. What if they don't know, Blake? What if she is just a clone? Would you dine on the innumerable words you've spoken in her defence and admit she's a fraud who duped you? If they didn't know, they wouldn't have acted as they did. If there was any doubt about at all about the Empress' legitimacy then the Speakers would have been called in by now. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 608	Posted - 2015.07.27 06:48:08 - [27] - Quote Rodj Blake wrote: Andreus Ixiris wrote: Rodj Blake wrote: God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. And you can't be infallible with it. Actually, it is possible for an omnipotent god to be infallible whilst changing their mind. Much as I don't want to, I have to agree with this. An omnipotent being would be able to remain infallible while changing their mind. If you're watching a holo, and halfway through decide you feel like taking a nap instead, you weren't wrong when you were watching the holo, you just decided 'no, I want something else right now'.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 247	Posted - 2015.07.27 07:18:01 - [28] - Quote And yet there's the paradox in that an omniscient and omnipotent creature would already know ahead of time every consequence and outcome of any decision it would have made, including whether or not it would change its mind and why. It makes little sense for such a creature to change its mind down the line, because if it actually is omnipotent and omniscient, it should have the ability to get it right from the get go. Of course, it's rather academic at any rate. An omniscient and omnipotent being would recognize that the state of the universe is one filled with suffering, horror and quite inventive death. This is, by every dogma in place, by design and not being rectified, so it is clearly an agreeable state of existence for this being, which makes it unequivocally an evil creature. If this is not the case, it either does not know or it is powerless to change the state of affairs, which would in turn mean it's one of the following three: Impotent, Ignorant or Evil. Whichever one you pick, it's not worth the worship even if you assume its existence as a given. It is a rather terrifying but inescapable notion that any capsuleer I've ever met is a more morally and ethically upstanding creature than an omniscient and omnipotent creature that'd allow humanity to exist in such a state.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 610	Posted - 2015.07.27 07:28:55 - [29] - Quote Truth. If there is a God, it's a sadist at best, psychotic at worst. Of course, I have to admit that anything omniscient would be absolutely, completely, barking mad by out standards, so that's not that surprising, I suppose.
Haruchai Khan 91	Posted - 2015.07.27 08:29:05 - [30] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: And yet there's the paradox in that an omniscient and omnipotent creature would already know ahead of time every consequence and outcome of any decision it would have made, including whether or not it would change its mind and why. It makes little sense for such a creature to change its mind down the line, because if it actually is omnipotent and omniscient, it should have the ability to get it right from the get go. I am not a theologian by any stretch of the imagination, but it is clear to me that the conception of an omniscient, omnipotent god must perforce depend on that deity being outside Time. In other words, trying to conceive of such a god being constrained by linear time, such as simple cause and effect, must be fundamentally flawed. Time for such a being must be like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey ... er... stuff. Well, the metaphor ran away with me, but I'm sure you understand. There is no paradox, because to such a deity, all things may happen at the same moment or in some conceptual framework beyond our understanding. I prefer to deal with things I can comprehend, and since the Amarr accept the Empress as their leader, I am comfortable with that choice. To undermine the Empress and her legitimacy merely makes the Empire even more difficult to deal with when trying to hold them to their treaties and attitude to the other legitimate powers of the cluster. The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
Borascus 641	Posted - 2015.07.27 09:41:07 - [31] - Quote In particle physics we have concepts like spin. When the Universe first formed these particles would have been formed singularly, and would appear inert. Each and every one would lack direction, vector or identifying characteristic. That is, until a force is applied to each and every particle in turn to give a characteristic. This force would be capable of forming a reality, much like the particles it characterised. I don't fault the Amarrians for their belief in God. However, The Empress wouldn't have done well at all attempting to join many of the alliances and coalitions in the lawless parts of New Eden. This part is the most questionable facet of The Empress.
Jade Blackwind Alexylva Paradox Low-Class 595	Posted - 2015.07.27 11:41:31 - [32] - Quote Her Imperial Majesty doesn't like to be scanned, eh? A random scientist walks up to a random politician, calls her an "existential threat to the cluster". What would a normal politician do? Of course, call the scientist a madman and a fool while the security takes his gadgets away. Maybe order to arrest the noisy intruder. Then dismiss the incident and proceed as usual. But Sarum orders to open fire. Maybe that scan of his found something... interesting? Like a Jovian superweapon? Or... worse? Maybe that's what the Drifters Seek for? I hope that is the case. Burn, Amarr, burn. hehe
Mathias Raholan Lezaruss Industrial Systems Intrepid Crossing 15	Posted - 2015.07.27 20:29:01 - [33] - Quote I'm sure the Gallente military would have no issues shooting down a vessel scanning the President's ship. Even those of us who have distanced themselves from traditional Amarr ways believe we reserve the right to protect our Empress, as would most citizens of any nation or empire. I think the fact a SoCT member, a high ranking one at that, took the time to come from Geminate perform such a bold action outweighs the Navy's response.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 626	Posted - 2015.07.27 20:41:56 - [34] - Quote Mathias Raholan wrote: I'm sure the Gallente military would have no issues shooting down a vessel scanning the President's ship. Even those of us who have distanced themselves from traditional Amarr ways believe we reserve the right to protect our Empress, as would most citizens of any nation or empire. I think the fact a SoCT member, a high ranking one at that, took the time to come from Geminate perform such a bold action outweighs the Navy's response. And again: if the order to fire had come while he was engaged in his hostile action, I think far fewer people would have questioned it.
Soren Tyrhanos PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 89	Posted - 2015.07.27 22:03:48 - [35] - Quote I think the issue comes down to a much greater level of simplicity than all this posturing on the moral high ground each and all seem to be clamouring over. Modules of the kind Mr Reish used to scan the Seraph to my understanding are not typically able to glean readings or be used upon capsuleer controlled vessels. In this case apparently Mr Reish possessed one that could and failed to explain in clear terms the purpose of his presence beyond offering ambiguous statements from a relatively obscure codicil.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 629	Posted - 2015.07.27 22:13:51 - [36] - Quote The CONCORD report on the Gnosis' remains indicated a standard 2nd-generation Entosis Link, easily available just next door in Amarr. So maybe the question should be: what exactly did he lock onto on that Avatar?
Corraidhin Farsaidh Farsaidh's Freeborn 1452	Posted - 2015.07.27 22:27:04 - [37] - Quote Perhaps no information was gleened from the titan's systems as such, but rather the knowledge that the entosis link actually interacted with the titan told Mr Reish all he needed to know from that'test'.
Matar Ronin 651	Posted - 2015.07.28 06:52:20 - [38] - Quote Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Perhaps no information was gleened from the titan's systems as such, but rather the knowledge that the entosis link actually interacted with the titan told Mr Reish all he needed to know from that'test'. In fact a handy Titan in high sec is not something you find everyday. If Entosis Link can lock onto and interact with a Titan that would certainly be an interesting power balance wild card for the empires and null sec alliances. This test must be repeated and verified. When will this demonic slavery cult leader make another public appearance? GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
Haruchai Khan 92	Posted - 2015.07.28 07:46:00 - [39] - Quote Matar Ronin wrote: Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: Perhaps no information was gleened from the titan's systems as such, but rather the knowledge that the entosis link actually interacted with the titan told Mr Reish all he needed to know from that'test'. In fact a handy Titan in high sec is not something you find everyday. If Entosis Link can lock onto and interact with a Titan that would certainly be an interesting power balance wild card for the empires and null sec alliances. This test must be repeated and verified. I would agree. A control experiment would be useful. Governments and corporations with access to a Titan should conduct a similar experiment on their vessels, and publish the results. If the Entosis Link scan cannot lock these ships, then we will be able to deduce that the Amarr are hiding something revolutionary and the SoCT proven correct in their concern. The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 637	Posted - 2015.07.28 14:47:04 - [40] - Quote Haruchai Khan wrote: If the Entosis Link scan cannot lock these ships They cannot.
iyammarrok Virtually Anonymous Milk Of The Poppy 391	Posted - 2015.07.28 15:01:57 - [41] - Quote Rivr Luzade wrote: Andreus Ixiris wrote: Scanning is not an assault prohibited by any CONCORD codicil, else any person using a cargo scanner would trigger a DED response. At the time Raish was shot, he had communicated compliance with the holdoff order and was in the process of retreating. He used an Entosis Link on her ship, which, by definition, is a module designed to infiltrate, compromise and sabotage systems to gain control over them or the entire object. This is in absolutely no way comparable to traditional scanning modules such as cargo or ship scanners. Any comparison of the EL to these modules is naive. He had never communicated compliance with the request to cease and desist, nor has he ever shown any sign of moving to the requested distance from the titan. He only stopped linking the ship after he "learned what they wanted to learn". Even after that, he was not retreating, but idling around in relative proximity to the titan and fleet. And here we go again. You once again claim that Raish used 'an entosis link' on the titan. An entosis link WILL NOT ACTIVATE when used against capsuleer piloted vessels. This has been proven, it is fact. Ergo, Mentor Raish did not use an entosis link. He may have used a piece of technology similar to an entosis link, or even the technology an entosis link is derived from, however, it is fact that the item you are so adamant has been used, cannot have been used. Furthermore, an entosis link, even if used, allows it's user to project a portion of their conciousness onto it's target to cause an effect as desired by it's user. Your description of it's effects upon nullsec sov structures is therefore moot, as it is the pilot who desires to claim space that destroys the structure in question, not the link itself. It is widely observed, that the Circadian seekers have entosis link like scanning ability, that does not have such a damaging effect, and that effect can, and often is, used upon capsuleer piloted vessels. it is also widely observed that these scans, when performed, have no discernable negative effects. it is therefore, a relatively safe assumption, that the scanning device used by Mentor Raish, was far more likely to be akin to the non-damaging version (or utilisation) observed in use by Circadian seekers, rather than the aggressively utilised versions that cause damage in null. It is also worth noting that I have yet to see a report of a Capsuleer detonating a Jovian observatory through repeated use of a standard entosis link upon one, so the claim that they invariably cause cataclysmic system failure and destruction is proven false. Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 259	Posted - 2015.07.28 15:03:17 - [42] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Haruchai Khan wrote: If the Entosis Link scan cannot lock these ships They cannot. As far as we know. We know there are many things we are prohibited from activating in certain locations. We can't activate smartbombs within certain ranges of stations in high security space, we can't even see significant parts of civilian traffic in space and more. Obviously this is a reasonable precaution by the powers that be, or there wouldn't be a station left in New Eden or planets that hadn't gotten a taste of a battleship broadside, sooner or later. Since we know the ship had an Entosis link equipped, a fairly standard one as far as the report shows, and every eye witness to the event saw what would appear to be an Entosis link activated, that remains the most likely thing to have happened. He locked the vessel and activated the Entosis link on it. We can't, but that doesn't mean the Entosis link is somehow lacking the capability. It just means we don't have the capacity to make it happen, just like with certain other limited hardware on our vessels. So, a few assumptions to make, reasonable or not. 1. What was used was indeed an Entosis link. 2. SoCT has figured out a way to use the hardware differently than intended or... 3. The hardware is intended for this purpose but capsuleers in general are prohibited its use. This implies... 4. SoCT's actions were indeed legally mandated and accepted by those regulating such use of the hardware or... 5. SoCT has found a way past the limitations of capsuleer interfaces. From this, things get a bit too far into wild and baseless assumption lands, but there are some fairly interesting possibilities suggested by these assumptions. Of course, they might be entirely wrong. Simply put, we need more information and the SoCT seems to be the ones holding most of the answers we seek, including whatever they obtained from Her Imperial Jammies.
iyammarrok Virtually Anonymous Milk Of The Poppy 391	Posted - 2015.07.28 15:07:27 - [43] - Quote Rodj Blake wrote: Borascus wrote: I'm also surprised a failure in the succession trials is good enough for the (albeit mighty) Amarr Empire, given their demands for sacred flesh. How can it be that a failure in the succession trials is still considered sacred. Jamyl failed the succession trial. Originally,that was God's will. God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. I have to wonder if you're mistaking terminology here Rodj. You can clearly be omnipotent without changing your mind. Power alone does not require reason. Omnipresent, that's also a possibility. Everywhere and everywhen, no need even for sentience for this to be the case. Omniscient, now, that is the difficult one. The ability to 'change your mind' and claim that it was simply the right time for a change would be remarkably useful in this regard. Not indicative of corporate policy unless otherwise stated.
Scherezad Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 2257	Posted - 2015.07.28 15:32:29 - [44] - Quote A God can change its mind in the same manner that a river can change its course. What's a wild turn to the fish is a stationary bank to the river.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 638	Posted - 2015.07.28 15:44:20 - [45] - Quote iyammarrok wrote: Rodj Blake wrote: God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. You can clearly be omnipotent without changing your mind. Power alone does not require reason. Except, of course, that if you can't change your mind, then there is something you can't do. If there's something you can't do, you're not omnipotent, kinda by definition. The old 'can God make a rock so heavy he can't lift it' thing? The answer is 'yes, but by doing so, he ceases to be God, so he chooses not to'.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 638	Posted - 2015.07.28 15:50:38 - [46] - Quote iyammarrok wrote: You once again claim that Raish used 'an entosis link' on the titan. An entosis link WILL NOT ACTIVATE when used against capsuleer piloted vessels. This has been proven, it is fact. Ergo, Mentor Raish did not use an entosis link. CONCORD's analysis of the wreckage confirmed Mentor Raish used a standard 2nd-Generation Entosis Link. The wreckage itself showed no unusual technology. This leads to two possibilities: 1)CONCORD is lying. Never ever ever ever rule this out. 2)The reason it worked wasn't on the Mentor's ship, but on the ship... being piloted by the person who gave the Entosis shielding to the rest of the cluster. The person who clearly, by virtue of giving it to the rest of the cluster, has had this technology for long enough to not feel like it was an advantage she couldn't let anyone else get a hold of. Which means there's a good chance it's a technology the Amarr have already made progress developing further. Perhaps even adapting it for the Empress' Avatar. Is there proof for this? Nope. But it can't be ruled out at this time. All we know is that something on one of those ships was decidedly non-standard... and CONCORD says the Gnosis wasn't it.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 639	Posted - 2015.07.28 15:58:27 - [47] - Quote Mizhara Del'thul wrote: Arrendis wrote: Haruchai Khan wrote: If the Entosis Link scan cannot lock these ships They cannot. As far as we know. We know there are many things we are prohibited from activating in certain locations. As far as we know, yes - which includes directly locking up an Avatar and trying it, though I admit, I wasn't flying a Gnosis at the time. I should get my Gnosis configured with an Entosis Link to test that on one of our Avatars. Mizhara Del'thul wrote: From this, things get a bit too far into wild and baseless assumption lands, but there are some fairly interesting possibilities suggested by these assumptions. Of course, they might be entirely wrong. Simply put, we need more information and the SoCT seems to be the ones holding most of the answers we seek, including whatever they obtained from Her Imperial Jammies. Indeed. You know, the more I think about it, the more curious it is: why was he so close? As mentioned, CONCORD says it was a Tech II Entosis Link. The one on my Onyx functions to 250 kilometers. He was ordered to withdraw to 100 kilometers. Why not just sit at range and flip her the bird?
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 260	Posted - 2015.07.28 16:22:41 - [48] - Quote Interesting point, which frankly lends a certain bit of credibility to the notion that he knew exactly what would happen and did in fact bank on it. As stated earlier, SoCT aren't fools.
Natheniel Mostly Sober Dead Terrorists 34	Posted - 2015.07.28 18:00:17 - [49] - Quote Have you guys even considered the chance that jamyl wasn't actually in a capsule piloting the avatar? Just because she's a capsuleer doesn't mean she can't stand on the bridge of a non capsuleer ship. "Life is as a storm, one must be prepared for the hardship and scorn. But with in this is a light, one for which we must fight. For hope is our weapon and our dreams are our shield. When fully armed we can not be felled from the field."
Feu dAstres Nox Draconum Holding Corp Nox Draconum 66	Posted - 2015.07.28 18:24:54 - [50] - Quote And ... if Jamyl is implanted with stolen Sleeper technology, she may be much the same as the original Templars in many aspects.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 646	Posted - 2015.07.28 21:23:06 - [51] - Quote Natheniel wrote: Have you guys even considered the chance that jamyl wasn't actually in a capsule piloting the avatar? Just because she's a capsuleer doesn't mean she can't stand on the bridge of a non capsuleer ship. Certainly possible.
Mizhara Del'thul T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 262	Posted - 2015.07.28 21:31:14 - [52] - Quote Unlikely. I've never seen a capsuleer vessel fly under one name but actually be piloted by another. Of course, possible but unprecedented as far as I know.
Will Gauss TerminalDogma New Eden Research Coalition 35	Posted - 2015.07.29 02:26:46 - [53] - Quote Essentially, SoCT is claiming that their investigation was in regards to an existential threat to the cluster. Jamyl's claim is that she was attempting to cease SoCT's scanning of her vessel. Given that the order to fire came after SoCT scanning had completed, we can falsify and invalidate Jamyl's claim and view her statements with less credibility when seen through the lens of her recent erratic behavior and questionable reappearance. We are left therefore, with SoCT appearing to consider Jamyl an existential threat. Given Jamyl's response to this, it is enough to raise my eyebrow. TerminalDogma would not normally buy into another's credibility alone, but SoCT, and the Directorate which gave rise to it has a history of looking out for our well being. I will therefore trust the Directorate and those who answer to it such as SoCT well above the restricted and potentially illegitimate Empress who has recently essentially gone rogue and is discarding her obligations left and right. TerminalDogma therefore will until evidence surfaces simply accept SoCT's determination that Jamyl Sarum I is an existential threat to the cluster and extend this status to anyone who takes orders from a chain leading to Jamyl. Once evidence arises this position will be re-evaluated to reduce the faith and trust and replace it with reason and evidence however.
The Golden Serpent 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 42	Posted - 2015.07.30 09:54:16 - [54] - Quote Will Gauss you're such a big huge fedo stinking liar, and you're putting words in the mouth of the SOCT. Also God brought her holiness back to life, it didn't violate the sacred flesh doctrine, don't you know anything? No you don't know anything and your mouth is covered in feces and your breath stinks. Either that guy, I forgot his name....he was scanning on his own and doing it in such a stupid way no one could believe SOCT was behind it and even if it was it wouldn't put its name to such a stupid action, acting like a terrorist at an event only Amarrians should have been and. AND also he was probably a capsuleer no one would do something so stupid without being a capsuleer. I will tell you once if you ever target anyone in Amarr they will shoot you back Empress or not. Also Max Singularity WAS THERE and she did not shoot him, he probably wasn't scanning her ship like a creepy perverted criminal terrorist, even though that's what he is but targeting for whatever reason is AN ACT OF WAR. IT IS!
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1760	Posted - 2015.07.30 12:06:14 - [55] - Quote It was clear to those witnessing the event, that there was something quite abnormal with the situation. As a standard T2 entosys link would be incapable of locking onto and affecting the titan, it was clearly not standard. We do not know the effects within the titan, the fact they were aware of it implies there were effects. The effects were such Jamyl identified it as an attack. Only the participants were aware of what was truly happening. If my ship was being shaken apart, I would not care if the attacker told me he was only being friendly. I would blow him out of he sky and let God decide his guilt. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 664	Posted - 2015.07.30 13:30:53 - [56] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: As a standard T2 entosys link would be incapable of locking onto and affecting the titan, it was clearly not standard. Or the titan wasn't. Jamyl Sarum handed out station/IHUB/TCU Entosis shielding to the rest of the cluster like it was nothing. An Avatar generates a hell of a lot more power than a TCU. It's not impossible that her Avatar's using Entosis shielding. Someone should conduct testing on that, purely for research purposes. Fifteen hundred Tornados should do.
Borascus 646	Posted - 2015.07.30 13:31:54 - [57] - Quote It's entirely plausible that the Society of Conscious Thought was attempting to ascertain why there was no record of Jamyl Sarum in the cluster for 5 years, surely such information would be present within the Titan's logs? The remaining member states might not have another chance to ascertain her whereabouts if the rumours of the Auctoritas are true, that it is truly impenetrable and cannot be scanned. A miracle 5 years in the making it might be, but we can take from Empress Jamyl's spectacular return, while CONCORD was disabled, that existential threats to the cluster might be a reality we face, a reality Empress Jamyl might bring about.
Rodj Blake PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2063	Posted - 2015.07.30 15:26:51 - [58] - Quote iyammarrok wrote: And here we go again. You once again claim that Raish used 'an entosis link' on the titan. An entosis link WILL NOT ACTIVATE when used against capsuleer piloted vessels. This has been proven, it is fact. And titans can't operate in high sec space. Oh wait... Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Scherezad Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 2258	Posted - 2015.07.30 16:25:53 - [59] - Quote Rodj Blake wrote: iyammarrok wrote: And here we go again. You once again claim that Raish used 'an entosis link' on the titan. An entosis link WILL NOT ACTIVATE when used against capsuleer piloted vessels. This has been proven, it is fact. And titans can't operate in high sec space. Oh wait... My gosh, Mr Blake. You are my favourite poster on these forums :) I hope I am half as witty as you when I grow up.
Will Gauss TerminalDogma New Eden Research Coalition 42	Posted - 2015.08.01 19:33:13 - [60] - Quote In response to concerns that were raised following NERC's participation in the fleet to retake Safizon from the Drifters alongside PIE and CVA, I would like to issue the following clarification: The existential threat designation is a book-keeping one which affects investigative interest and suspicion, and is -not- a declaration of war or shooting hostilities. New Eden Research Coalition is so named for good reason. We are a scientific organization, with the objective of cluster safety above all else, advancement beyond this. No good scientist takes propositions simply on faith, and only temporarily accepts Matshi Raish's designation on faith due to the strangeness of the whole situation. AT this time, NERC will not be opening fire on Amarr Empire assets unless fired upon first. It is also pointed out that the degree and severity of evidence which would be necessary to convert the designation to a declaration would likely see the Empire already in revolt. There is however, ample evidence for the Drifters being an existential threat to the cluster, which has NERC willing to take up arms against them alongside other entities similarly willing to take up arms agaisnt them, which has NERC in the somewhat awkward position of having the enemy of their enemy being designated an existential threat. NERC will happily fly with PIE and CVA for the purpose of resisting the Drifter threat, and has set both organizations +10 in the absence of direct evidence of either plotting the failure of the cluster.

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