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Enigmier
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Posted - 2006.12.03 19:57:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Enigmier on 03/12/2006 19:58:36
ccp decides to get rid of logistics drone for this tourney, they make the arena closer to promote a more interesting fight,
now we see a stream of logistics ships and everyone is feeding each other, teams are trying to fight each other with a total dps of 100  since all their hgih slots are taken up with remote reps and nos,, is this a theme we are going to see more of, i hope not..
edit* try fitting some guns next time lads
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.12.03 20:02:00 -
[2]
I think the NOS wins for the most boring module used. If there is any lesson to be learned from these fights it's that NOS needs to be dealt with somehow (my vote goes to leaving the last 30% of ship's cap untouchable).
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mallina
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.03 20:09:00 -
[3]
the Guardian's primary bonus means its the best logistics ship to use in tournaments like this. With level 5 skill, if you send it 500 cap, it can send back 2000 .. in a very short space of time
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Turbulance |
El Yatta
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolance
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Posted - 2006.12.03 20:12:00 -
[4]
The most boring module used in this tournament is obviously the Phased Muon sensor dampener - and some upstanding soul has helped rectify this by buying all of the ones in multiple regions and selling them in jita for 40m a pop.
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jamesw
Omniscient Order
The Sani Sabik
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Posted - 2006.12.03 22:13:00 -
[5]
If you think NOS are boring I suggest you locate a recording of today's last fight. That has to be one of the most intense fights I have ever seen.
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Latest Vid: Domination! |
darth solo
Insurgency
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Posted - 2006.12.03 22:20:00 -
[6]
well we went into this looking to have fun... heavy damage a little boosting. all our fights have went down to the wire and made great TV.. we were never gonna win it. what was with the Xelas fight tonight?, did anyone actually fit guns in that one?.
d solo.
celes apoc kill board |
Earthan
Gallente
The Amazing Fire Eaters
Breidablik
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Posted - 2006.12.03 22:29:00 -
[7]
I dont knwo guys why guns are more intnersting to you then nosfs.
I mean here armour disspears here cap...
Tough i admit maybe a little nosf nerf is a good idea
And imho logistics usage is very intersesting might be boring to watch but i guess the teamwork required to use it effectively makes it very fun to fly.
The Amazing Fire Eaters webpage
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Sadist
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.03 22:31:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: jamesw
If you think NOS are boring I suggest you locate a recording of today's last fight. That has to be one of the most intense fights I have ever seen.
You mean the fight before that, the last one lasted too long to be intense. 
òòòòòòòòòòòò
VIP member of the [23]
Quote:
- Numbers alone do not win a battle
- No, but I bet they help.
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.12.03 22:36:00 -
[9]
Hey, I had alot more than 100 DPS output!!!1111oneoneone
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
Baun
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.03 22:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Razin
I think the NOS wins for the most boring module used. If there is any lesson to be learned from these fights it's that NOS needs to be dealt with somehow (my vote goes to leaving the last 30% of ship's cap untouchable).
I don't want to turn this into the Ships and Mods forum, but the question of whether Nos should be allowed for the tournament has almost nothing to do with whether it should be nerfed in game. I can't recall ever undocking with my gang knowing we would encounter another gang of exactly equal "value" and numbers of pilots.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Enigmier
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Posted - 2006.12.03 22:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: jamesw
If you think NOS are boring I suggest you locate a recording of today's last fight. That has to be one of the most intense fights I have ever seen.
it wasnt intense at all, just watching a rokh slowly dying without anything else being touched, hardly edge of your seat stuff,
the whole purpose of the smaller arena was for fast action guns ablazing solid PvP, not some nos/ remote rep fest.
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.12.03 22:59:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Razin on 03/12/2006 22:59:17
Originally by: jamesw
If you think NOS are boring I suggest you locate a recording of today's last fight. That has to be one of the most intense fights I have ever seen.
I saw it live and I agree that it was intense, but only due to the round time limitation. However, the cumulative NOS power was arguably the deciding factor in breaking the Rokh's tank.
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Razor Jaxx
Fate.
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Posted - 2006.12.03 23:10:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 03/12/2006 22:59:17
Originally by: jamesw
If you think NOS are boring I suggest you locate a recording of today's last fight. That has to be one of the most intense fights I have ever seen.
I saw it live and I agree that it was intense, but only due to the round time limitation. However, the cumulative NOS power was arguably the deciding factor in breaking the Rokh's tank.
Actually, no, it wasn't really. The damage output from drones was what killed Tank's Rokh. Our mistake was ultimately to temporarily divert fire from OmnOr's drones to try and break one of their tanks, which we couldn't do because they had a successful remote rep strategy in place. Had we killed more drones, and thus reduced, or even slowed, the damage output from the drones onto the Rokh, we might have pulled it through. And that was our original plan.
Good job on OmnOr's part for choosing to go for the Rokh right from the start, that was a key decision. And hats off for an awesome fight.
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Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.03 23:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Smagd on 03/12/2006 23:34:19
Both NOS and support allow for some amazing strategies, so please leave them in.
The only thing I'm fearing is that more NOS wins against less NOS, but I don't really think that's happening except in NOS vs. NOS fights, and in those it should, in fact, win.
Edited for hint: The Huginn is a powerful counter to NOS.
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.12.04 00:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Razor Jaxx
Originally by: Razin
Edited by: Razin on 03/12/2006 22:59:17
Originally by: jamesw
If you think NOS are boring I suggest you locate a recording of today's last fight. That has to be one of the most intense fights I have ever seen.
I saw it live and I agree that it was intense, but only due to the round time limitation. However, the cumulative NOS power was arguably the deciding factor in breaking the Rokh's tank.
Actually, no, it wasn't really. The damage output from drones was what killed Tank's Rokh. Our mistake was ultimately to temporarily divert fire from OmnOr's drones to try and break one of their tanks, which we couldn't do because they had a successful remote rep strategy in place. Had we killed more drones, and thus reduced, or even slowed, the damage output from the drones onto the Rokh, we might have pulled it through. And that was our original plan.
Good job on OmnOr's part for choosing to go for the Rokh right from the start, that was a key decision. And hats off for an awesome fight.
No doubt that what actually breaks the tank is the damage output. However it was plain to see that the Rokhs shield boosting ability was nullified by the other team's NOS power which in turn allowed the drones to whittle down it's shields.
All I'm trying to say is that NOS should be made secondary to DPS/tank rather than the decisive factor that it appeared to be.
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Kamikaaazi
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Posted - 2006.12.04 02:31:00 -
[16]
9 nos + 1 gun >> 8 nos + 2 guns
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AshrakTheWhite
Red Wrath
Exquisite Malevolance
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Posted - 2006.12.04 05:31:00 -
[17]
WTB ship with 10 highslots
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.12.04 10:49:00 -
[18]
There's nothing wrong with logistics and nos.
They promote actual intergroup teamwork to make sure the right members are getting the boosts when they need it allowing for more diverse groups.
There's more to a groups skills than simply being able to do as much damage or tank as much damage as possible.
Without NOS most battles would become simply standoffs with neither side being able to break the other sides tanks. With nos, a tank can eventually be shutdown allowing the target to be taken out of action.
Nos themselves can be countered with webbing drones, huggins and faction webs + gang mode bonuses and it's been shown some groups such as ASCN are completely neutered by such tactics.
The current rules don't really need changed, they are producing some fantastic fights and only a few stalemate/nos/damp fests. A huge improvement over the last tournament.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Emsigma
Contraband Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.04 11:18:00 -
[19]
Both nos, circle jerks and uber damps can be countered with bumping!!! =D
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Smagd
Encina Technologies
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2006.12.04 11:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi
9 nos + 1 gun >> 8 nos + 2 guns
If you want to go all simple equations on me explain this:
Ishkur + 2 drones + 0 cap > Megathron + Heavy NOS + Webifier + 6 Blasters.
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Razin
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Posted - 2006.12.04 15:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Without NOS most battles would become simply standoffs with neither side being able to break the other sides tanks. With nos, a tank can eventually be shutdown allowing the target to be taken out of action.
ThatÆs not strictly true. The Neuts do a great job of removing the targetÆs cap and are arguably better balanced than Nos since they take cap to run.
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NebulousBlur
Minmatar
Unknown Shoe Corp.
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.04 16:36:00 -
[22]
If you have a decent idea of what you are going against and you don't have to worry about reinforcements, you can tank almost anything.
Even with pure damage it is hard to break a supported tank. We had 4 close range gank battlecruisers - that is a lot of damage being put out. We melted a raven in seconds during the first match, but the eos/scorp were able to tank it because of their mutual tank and putting out just enough damage to slowly kill 4 battlecruisers.
Logistics won't win a fight for you, but they let you create a very surviveable force. You can still put out a decent amount of damage with mutual support setups, last tournament's theme became mutual support vs mutual support as more people became aware of how damn powerful they are.
I will say that logistic based tournament fleets aren't as much fun to fly as pure damage. :)
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Falhofnir
Evolution
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Posted - 2006.12.04 17:18:00 -
[23]
using brains sure is less fun than hitting F1-F8.
wtf, what am I doing there ?
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ShadowlordUK
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Posted - 2006.12.04 21:43:00 -
[24]
Edited by: ShadowlordUK on 04/12/2006 21:43:28
Hope people enjoyed our suicide navy mega blaster force lol...
I would say that it is very very difficult to beat through any cruiser or bigger sized ship's tank without nos in this tourney and thats only going to get more extreme as the tourney goes on with more adventurous teams eliminated for their trouble. 
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.12.05 08:22:00 -
[25]
i must admit that so far i liked more the previous tourney match
tanks where extremely strong but also needed a bit more management.
most of the battles i saw in this torunament where nosfest where nothing was going to happen until someone ran out of cap...
imo there where no need toremove logistic drone are they can be a "natural" counter to nos and permit to use more aggressive strategies...
in next tournament actually i will like to see logistic drones allowed again, and maybe more points to spend/more freedome in choices so teams can opt for heavy direct dps config
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2006.12.05 10:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Ath Amon
most of the battles i saw in this torunament where nosfest where nothing was going to happen until someone ran out of cap...
When you get right down to it removing NOS would still turn it into a cap battle.
With the limited numbers (and therefore damage output) tanks are more effective in tournament battles than regular pvp and so it would mostly come down to who can break whos tank first, after that the match has already been decided.
Nos have been shown to have a defensive benefit as well as an offensive one (nosing a teammate for a quick cap boost) and makes for much more interesting configurations.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.12.05 16:14:00 -
[27]
wait, i never said to remove nos...
i said i'd like to see logistic drones back in next tourney as they can be a counter to nos
nos can stay whitout any problem...
in that quote i was just saying that nosfights are boring to watch (more than logistic drones imo) as you have no idea on what is happening...
still it doesn't mean that noses are not interesting for tactical purposes... just that they are boring
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Wat0721
GalacTECH Unlimited
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Posted - 2006.12.06 14:33:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Wat0721 on 06/12/2006 14:33:36
Originally by: Wild Rho
Without NOS most battles would become simply standoffs with neither side being able to break the other sides tanks. With nos, a tank can eventually be shutdown allowing the target to be taken out of action.
*******s and you know it. Read my suggestion on the other forum and keep a little thing called "neuts" at the back of your mind.
If you want a module to break a tank and make things interesting, that's fine; but make it have at least a bit of a drawback.
Quote:
Nos themselves can be countered with webbing drones, huggins and faction webs + gang mode bonuses and it's been shown some groups such as ASCN are completely neutered by such tactics.
Yeah, especially since heavy NOS can't reach to the edge of warp scramble range. Oh, wait. In real situations people just warp away.
ALSO: Expect that suggestion from the aforementioned other forum to appear on these forums Soon(tm).
EDIT: Holy fish...I can't say bollo...? Balls.
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.06 16:40:00 -
[29]
Sometimes I wonder what people think "interesting" is. Take out EWAR- its boring. Take out Nos- its boring. Take out logistics- its boring. Don't setup heavy tanks- they're boring.
What does that leave us with? Who can fit the most DPS wins, and very very quickly at that. Is that fun? Thats like EVE Lite- For ChildrenÖ.
Call me funny, but I like the whole "whos using what tactic" routine. I don't want to see it dumbed down just because some people can't think beyond "what is the biggest gun I can staple to this ship?".
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dalman
Finite Horizon
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Posted - 2006.12.06 17:15:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kamikaaazi
9 nos + 1 gun >> 8 nos + 2 guns
That is simply wrong in most cases.
Am I forced to have any regret?
I've become the lie, beautiful and free
In my righteous own mind
I adore and preach the insanity you gave to me |
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