EVE Search - Why would you NOT 0.01 ISK market orders?

All Channels

Market Discussions

Why would you NOT 0.01 ISK market orders?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Hate Myself Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.30 23:06:52 - [1] - Quote This has puzzled me for some time but I typically only see things from a 0.01 ISKGÇÖers point of view. For me, there is only two reason not to 0.01 isk someone, they are;- A. The market is so out of wack that few people are going to buy/sell at that price like Adaptive Invulnerability Field IGÇÖs selling for 10 million. I would bring them back to a GÇÿreasonableGÇÖ 500k. B. A mission runner/miner/non trader puts in a sell order for a stack of stuff he does not like the buy order price set. (Yum, snap that up) Here is what I think people may be thinking and why I think they are insane;- 1. They want to GÇÿpushGÇÖ me and my kind out of the market. My Answer: 0.01 ISK them, I hope you push hard because sooner or later I (or someone else) is going to spot it on eve-central and make a lot of isk off you. I will push you below the 1.5% mark to make sure. 2. They morally object to 0.01 ISKGÇÖing. My Answer: LOL, 0.01 ISK them, they are not going to last long. 3. They play the market to be annoying My Answer: 0.01 ISK them, trust me, that seems far more annoying judging by the threads I read. 4. They are bad at math. My Answer: 0.01 ISK them. 5. They think they are smart and are 10.01 ISKGÇÖing. My Answer: 0.01 ISK them, perhaps they will work out some day we actually know what they are upto and watch for it. 6. They misunderstood something at school and thought buy high sell low is actually a thing. My Answer: 0.01 ISK themGÇª.. So, yeah, I need educating, why do you NOT 0.01 ISK?
Paranoid Loyd 6441	Posted - 2015.07.30 23:35:15 - [2] - Quote You are severely over thinking this. While nothing you posted is implausible some people just wanna unload their **** as quickly as possible but understand selling to buy orders is not nearly as profitable so the next logical step is to undercut the sell orders and they don't understand they will just be .01 isked as soon as someone notices. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Alexi Stokov State War Academy Caldari State 55	Posted - 2015.07.30 23:53:09 - [3] - Quote Because they don't care that much and know that there are people out there that do.
Sabriz Adoudel Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 5207	Posted - 2015.07.31 00:48:10 - [4] - Quote There's a time and a place for 0.01 ISKing (or 10.01 ISKing which is the same thing), and a time and a place for deep undercutting. I for one often deep undercut with the intention of being 0.01 ISKed and then buying out the undercutter's entire stack, and relisting high. Alert traders will see what I am doing a mile off and not bite, but idiots will not, and you make more out of idiots than you do out of alert traders. Made a good deal doing that with certain tech 2 modules recently. But sometimes, I just want out of a market and do not want to be counterundercut, so I will post well below the present sell orders. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
HeXxploiT Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn 164	Posted - 2015.07.31 00:50:55 - [5] - Quote As difficult as it may be to imagine there are a multitude of reasons to not .01isk. I believe the market is about to crash and I want to unload my stock. I want to frustrate my competitors into not selling beneath my price. I want to trick my competitors into selling at a lower price. I'm only coming to jita(name your station) once per week and am less likely to be undercut if I undercut the ask by a large fraction. There are many more reasons than I am willing to take the time to list here but all of these I have used strategically to my personal benefit.
Alt Pilot1 Hysera Innovations 2	Posted - 2015.07.31 00:52:19 - [6] - Quote Hate Myself wrote: This has puzzled me for some time but I typically only see things from a 0.01 ISKGÇÖers point of view. For me, there is only two reason not to 0.01 isk someone, they are;- A. The market is so out of wack that few people are going to buy/sell at that price like Adaptive Invulnerability Field IGÇÖs selling for 10 million. I would bring them back to a GÇÿreasonableGÇÖ 500k. B. A mission runner/miner/non trader puts in a sell order for a stack of stuff he does not like the buy order price set. (Yum, snap that up) Here is what I think people may be thinking and why I think they are insane;- 1. They want to GÇÿpushGÇÖ me and my kind out of the market. My Answer: 0.01 ISK them, I hope you push hard because sooner or later I (or someone else) is going to spot it on eve-central and make a lot of isk off you. I will push you below the 1.5% mark to make sure. 2. They morally object to 0.01 ISKGÇÖing. My Answer: LOL, 0.01 ISK them, they are not going to last long. 3. They play the market to be annoying My Answer: 0.01 ISK them, trust me, that seems far more annoying judging by the threads I read. 4. They are bad at math. My Answer: 0.01 ISK them. 5. They think they are smart and are 10.01 ISKGÇÖing. My Answer: 0.01 ISK them, perhaps they will work out some day we actually know what they are upto and watch for it. 6. They misunderstood something at school and thought buy high sell low is actually a thing. My Answer: 0.01 ISK themGÇª.. So, yeah, I need educating, why do you NOT 0.01 ISK? It's hard to figure out exactly why because there can be a variety of reasons. So trying to figure that out will drive you nuts (which seems like what's happening here =P). But I think you have the right idea - if there's a profit, doesn't matter what they do, just undercut them by 0.01. You are only shortening your life span by getting agitated. There is nothing else you can do about it, so just let Economics take care of the rest.
Hate Myself Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.31 01:16:24 - [7] - Quote Alt Pilot1 wrote: You are only shortening your life span by becoming agitated. Sorry, you misunderstand me, I was not clear. I am not getting agitated, I am giggling all the way to the bank! The behaviour perplexes me though, why undercut by 100 or 1,000 or 10,000? I (and others) will just 0.01 ISK you. I sometimes think that they think they will buy/sell more items that way. In the end though, there is a fixed amount of any item that will sell in a given period regardless of what the prices is (within limits as I mentioned above) and that is it. The same goes for buying items. Heavily discounting or overpaying does not make more items available. They are just making it easy for us 0.01 ISK'ers to get all their stock ;) .
Alexi Stokov State War Academy Caldari State 55	Posted - 2015.07.31 01:32:37 - [8] - Quote Hate Myself wrote: Alt Pilot1 wrote: You are only shortening your life span by becoming agitated. Sorry, you misunderstand me, I was not clear. I am not getting agitated, I am giggling all the way to the bank! The behaviour perplexes me though, why undercut by 100 or 1,000 or 10,000? I (and others) will just 0.01 ISK you. I sometimes think that they think they will buy/sell more items that way. In the end though, there is a fixed amount of any item that will sell in a given period regardless of what the prices is (within limits as I mentioned above) and that is it. The same goes for buying items. Heavily discounting or overpaying does not make more items available. They are just making it easy for us 0.01 ISK'ers to get all their stock ;) . You do realize that if I drop the price by 1000 then you under cut me by .01, that you've dropped you price by 1000.01? Maybe it is I that wants you to drop low so I can get your stock.
Alt Pilot1 Hysera Innovations 2	Posted - 2015.07.31 01:44:05 - [9] - Quote Alexi Stokov wrote: Hate Myself wrote: Alt Pilot1 wrote: You are only shortening your life span by becoming agitated. Sorry, you misunderstand me, I was not clear. I am not getting agitated, I am giggling all the way to the bank! The behaviour perplexes me though, why undercut by 100 or 1,000 or 10,000? I (and others) will just 0.01 ISK you. I sometimes think that they think they will buy/sell more items that way. In the end though, there is a fixed amount of any item that will sell in a given period regardless of what the prices is (within limits as I mentioned above) and that is it. The same goes for buying items. Heavily discounting or overpaying does not make more items available. They are just making it easy for us 0.01 ISK'ers to get all their stock ;) . You do realize that if I drop the price by 1000 then you under cut me by .01, that you've dropped you price by 1000.01? Maybe it is I that wants you to drop low so I can get your stock. oh my........let the fun begin
Hate Myself Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.31 01:47:14 - [10] - Quote Alexi Stokov wrote: You do realize that if I drop the price by 1000 then you under cut me by .01, that you've dropped you price by 1000.01? Maybe it is I that wants you to drop low so I can get your stock. Na, if you had dropped it to any sort of 'good deal' level I would have bought you out, if you buy my stock out it is because it still has a hefty markup on it (that I 0.01 ISK'ed earlier). I win either way.
Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 218	Posted - 2015.07.31 03:24:23 - [11] - Quote I as industrialist (actually building the stuff) pretty much only have the ISK investment of the production costs to worry about. I have seen 0.01's do that to me on the market when i place things just below or even at their lowest sell order prices. Now what is funny is when i start dropping the price by 500k-5 million....they still keep dropping at .01 I dont place buy orders, i can build 100 destroyers at the cost of just under 100k, or some battlecruisers at the cost of 35 million for a stack of 10 of them and sell at 70-80 each, same with battleships, freighters, orcas, modules, and especially rigs. And if i have enough stock of something i can destroy the market quite easily because of the nature of .01's Like last November, talos were going for as much as 80-90 mill....when a 0.1 attempted to do his thing i just started dropping prices...i sold my last talos for about 70 mill when i was done. The market however had dipped afterwards to avg 60-64 on buy orders and as low as 66 on avg in sell orders and di not recover till late Feb/early March to its former Nov pricing. So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever? on side note my CEO told me not to do that anymore, because we have the ability like every other serious indy guy to dump several categories.
Hate Myself Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.31 03:46:37 - [12] - Quote Max Deveron wrote: So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever? Fair question. In general us 0.01 ISK'ers don't actually care how much we sell things for we are only interested in turning the item over. While 100% profit is nice anything above 1.5% (less with rep) is gravy to us. Not 0.01 ISK'ing your orders just leaves us with a pile of capital in our hangars that is not turning back to ISK so we can turn it over again (and again). Even when a market does a permanent swing on us and we sell for -10% or whatever we will still be doing it, we need to turn those items back to isk to turn over into items etc.. Cost averaging is our friend here and because we are now buying the items at -10% or whatever we are not making an overtime loss.
Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 218	Posted - 2015.07.31 03:49:38 - [13] - Quote Hate Myself wrote: Max Deveron wrote: So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever? Fair question. In general us 0.01 ISK'ers don't actually care how much we sell things for we are only interested in turning the item over. While 100% profit is nice anything above 1.5% (less with rep) is gravy to us. Not 0.01 ISK'ing your orders just leaves us with a pile of capital in our hangars that is not turning back to ISK so we can turn it over again (and again). Even when a market does a permanent swing on us and we sell for -10% or whatever we will still be doing it, we need to turn those items back to isk to turn over into items etc.. Cost averaging is our friend here and because we are now buying the items at -10% or whatever we are not making an overtime loss. ok understood, answers my open question. guess we are two sides of the same coin based on that answer.
Hate Myself Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.31 03:56:27 - [14] - Quote Max Deveron wrote: [Guess we are two sides of the same coin based on that answer. Yeah, fairly much. Your CEO is right though, dumping stuff is only costing you isk, you had to get the materials, construct the stuff etc. Dropping the price will only reduce margin but it won't scare 0.01 ISK'ers away, our margin is on turnover, you margin is on materials & time. It is probably not a fight you want to engage in.
Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 218	Posted - 2015.07.31 04:00:45 - [15] - Quote Hate Myself wrote: Max Deveron wrote: [Guess we are two sides of the same coin based on that answer. Yeah, fairly much. Your CEO is right though, dumping stuff is only costing you isk, you had to get the materials, construct the stuff etc. Dropping the price will only reduce margin but it won't scare 0.01 ISK'ers away, our margin is on turnover, you margin is on materials & time. It is probably not a fight you want to engage in. Been engaging in it for 5 yrs now, but thats a moot point at any rate.
Hate Myself Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.31 04:20:10 - [16] - Quote Max Deveron wrote: Been engaging in it for 5 yrs now, but thats a moot point at any rate. Find yourself a 'pet 0.01 isker', work out what you want to sell them for, add a bit and make him/her an offer (not me, I don't want to be seen as hawking for business). We are a pile of jackals really, we feed off others efforts and one of our biggest problems is finding stuff to sell, on things like 'battleships, freighters, orcas, modules, and especially rigs' we will generally be salivating over a good supply.
Jeronica Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 389	Posted - 2015.07.31 04:22:31 - [17] - Quote I think fact of the matter is, as long as the price is still higher than what you bought it for you're still making isk. If you want to put the effort in for a quick return on the stock then go for it. If you know the item will sell without .01'ing every 10min then why bother. You'll eventually get your requested sell price and won't lose sleep about it even if it takes an extra 6 hours. I used to play the .01 game when I traded 2 years ago, but I think if I were to start trading again I'd do a less effort approach for supplemental isk. I can understand if your capital is low (<5-10bil) .01 isking would be enticing. EVE-Mogul: https://www.eve-mogul.com CEO/Programmer Trade Profit Tracking Service
Sabriz Adoudel Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 5207	Posted - 2015.07.31 05:19:11 - [18] - Quote Max Deveron wrote: I as industrialist (actually building the stuff) pretty much only have the ISK investment of the production costs to worry about. I have seen 0.01's do that to me on the market when i place things just below or even at their lowest sell order prices. Now what is funny is when i start dropping the price by 500k-5 million....they still keep dropping at .01 I dont place buy orders, i can build 100 destroyers at the cost of just under 100k, or some battlecruisers at the cost of 35 million for a stack of 10 of them and sell at 70-80 each, same with battleships, freighters, orcas, modules, and especially rigs. And if i have enough stock of something i can destroy the market quite easily because of the nature of .01's Like last November, talos were going for as much as 80-90 mill....when a 0.1 attempted to do his thing i just started dropping prices...i sold my last talos for about 70 mill when i was done. The market however had dipped afterwards to avg 60-64 on buy orders and as low as 66 on avg in sell orders and di not recover till late Feb/early March to its former Nov pricing. So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever? on side note my CEO told me not to do that anymore, because we have the ability like every other serious indy guy to dump several categories. There is no way to build destroyers at 100k each. I build Catalysts quite often and depending on the market they cost 600-850k to build each hull. They are a basket of minerals and are as such sensitive to price fluctuations, mostly caused by fluctuations in supercapital demand. IIRC the Mexallon alone is more than 100k even at the present historic low prices for Mex. But if you can build Catalysts for 100k each, feel free to contract twenty thousand of them to me at 200k each tomorrow, and another quarter million to my alliance. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
Hate Myself Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.31 05:21:49 - [19] - Quote Jeronica wrote: I think fact of the matter is, as long as the price is still higher than what you bought it for you're still making isk. If you want to put the effort in for a quick return on the stock then go for it. If you know the item will sell without .01'ing every 10min then why bother. You'll eventually get your requested sell price and won't lose sleep about it even if it takes an extra 6 hours. I used to play the .01 game when I traded 2 years ago, but I think if I were to start trading again I'd do a less effort approach for supplemental isk. I can understand if your capital is low (<5-10bil) .01 isking would be enticing. Ahhh, the air of smug superiority I am not talking about every 10 minutes (though I do know that some like to play like that, more power to them, you are not 'better' than they are). I am taking when you lower yourself to go check your orders like us mere mortals.
Sabriz Adoudel Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 5207	Posted - 2015.07.31 05:23:31 - [20] - Quote Jeronica wrote: I think fact of the matter is, as long as the price is still higher than what you bought it for you're still making isk. If you want to put the effort in for a quick return on the stock then go for it. If you know the item will sell without .01'ing every 10min then why bother. You'll eventually get your requested sell price and won't lose sleep about it even if it takes an extra 6 hours. I used to play the .01 game when I traded 2 years ago, but I think if I were to start trading again I'd do a less effort approach for supplemental isk. I can understand if your capital is low (<5-10bil) .01 isking would be enticing. I do minor undercuts more when in the marauder market (1.05-1.12 billion ISK per unit) than I do when trading smaller stuff (tech 2 modules). Where I 0.01 the most aggressively is in markets where the daily turnover (in units) divided by the average purchase quantity (in units) is small. EVE doesn't track the latter but you get to learn it over time - e.g. for Light Neutron Blaster II it's about 8; for Photon Microprocessor it's a thousand or so; and for Marauders it's 1. The fewer unique buyers per day, the more important it is to have the lowest priced order. On things like Sisters probes, I'm fine with being undercut over and over, I just leave mine up until the market goes back to my price OR until I need capital fast. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
vccv 71	Posted - 2015.07.31 05:57:13 - [21] - Quote Hate Myself wrote: Jeronica wrote: I think fact of the matter is, as long as the price is still higher than what you bought it for you're still making isk. If you want to put the effort in for a quick return on the stock then go for it. If you know the item will sell without .01'ing every 10min then why bother. You'll eventually get your requested sell price and won't lose sleep about it even if it takes an extra 6 hours. I used to play the .01 game when I traded 2 years ago, but I think if I were to start trading again I'd do a less effort approach for supplemental isk. I can understand if your capital is low (<5-10bil) .01 isking would be enticing. Ahhh, the air of smug superiority I am not talking about every 10 minutes (though I do know that some like to play like that, more power to them, you are not 'better' than they are). I am taking when you lower yourself to go check your orders like us mere mortals. I dont know who we would call "smug" in this situation.. but 5-10b is not a lot. The fact remains, as long as there is profit, sometimes its not worth the trouble to play the pennywars. Of course as others have stated, it can be done for other reasons as well. My guess is you posted this after growing weary. 01 isking and you werent giggling at all. Try not to overthink it so much.. just my advice.
Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 220	Posted - 2015.07.31 06:23:57 - [22] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Max Deveron wrote: I as industrialist (actually building the stuff) pretty much only have the ISK investment of the production costs to worry about. I have seen 0.01's do that to me on the market when i place things just below or even at their lowest sell order prices. Now what is funny is when i start dropping the price by 500k-5 million....they still keep dropping at .01 I dont place buy orders, i can build 100 destroyers at the cost of just under 100k, or some battlecruisers at the cost of 35 million for a stack of 10 of them and sell at 70-80 each, same with battleships, freighters, orcas, modules, and especially rigs. And if i have enough stock of something i can destroy the market quite easily because of the nature of .01's Like last November, talos were going for as much as 80-90 mill....when a 0.1 attempted to do his thing i just started dropping prices...i sold my last talos for about 70 mill when i was done. The market however had dipped afterwards to avg 60-64 on buy orders and as low as 66 on avg in sell orders and di not recover till late Feb/early March to its former Nov pricing. So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever? on side note my CEO told me not to do that anymore, because we have the ability like every other serious indy guy to dump several categories. There is no way to build destroyers at 100k each. I build Catalysts quite often and depending on the market they cost 600-850k to build each hull. They are a basket of minerals and are as such sensitive to price fluctuations, mostly caused by fluctuations in supercapital demand. IIRC the Mexallon alone is more than 100k even at the present historic low prices for Mex. But if you can build Catalysts for 100k each, feel free to contract twenty thousand of them to me at 200k each tomorrow, and another quarter million to my alliance. Had this discussion once a long time ago..... whether i do it myself or pay some one to do it....1 hour of mining will net all the low end minerals for 85-90 cats. a few missions and bam enough stuff to melt down takes care of the meg and zyd...... so yeah just paying the production costs....100 destroyers, cats/thrashers/corms are roughly about 40,000 isk per ship to build.
Hate Myself Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.31 06:36:20 - [23] - Quote vccv wrote: My guess is you posted this after growing weary. 01 isking and you werent giggling at all. Try not to overthink it so much.. just my advice. Nope, I have been at it a few years (and yeah, 5-10b is not a lot). I even spent most of the time feeling superior to everyone else by not 0.01 isking my orders & playing all sorts of 'tactical games' (my internal bias there, I thought what was pumped here was right). I also once did the 0.01 ISK every 10 minutes or so. These days though, I 0.01 ISK everything when I check my orders and guess what? My turnover in items has not changed at all in terms of items but my profits are drastically increased. I now look back and wonder WTF I was thinking.
Cista2 Phoibe Enterprises 129	Posted - 2015.07.31 06:48:32 - [24] - Quote Because 0.01 isking is time-inefficient. It is that simple. You make more isk than me per day, but I make more isk than you per minute that I spend in EVE, which is the parameter that I seek to optimise. I bought item x for today's price minus 40% two weeks ago, I don't need to even look at today's market spread of 15% to make 25% profit. So I undercut you with 5%, then with 5% more, then you buy my order. Then we are both happy, but I am the only one of us who understands why. My channel: "Signatures" - Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
Hate Myself Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.31 08:01:46 - [25] - Quote Cista2 wrote: Because 0.01 isking is time-inefficient. It is the simplest of answers, yet you have still not realised it. Why? It is probably quicker, I don't have to make any decisions, I just 0.01 ISK. Don't change how often you check your orders, just 0.01 ISK everything.... profit!
Etara Silverblade Morex Group Inc. Haven. 45	Posted - 2015.07.31 08:40:42 - [26] - Quote It's only a game and making isk isn't everything. I like certain numbers and dislike others so I make sure my orders don't end in even digits. Sometimes I want to make sure my order ends in .99 othertimes I'll play with the digits in the price to make a pattern. It's all to have fun with it and not worry about the actually making isk or being efficient. I still make my isk in the end and a little less or more doesn't really matter. Your analysis of the practice looks like you are taking it way to seriously and you'll never have fun doing that. That's what RL is for, maybe.
Hate Myself Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.07.31 08:49:08 - [27] - Quote Etara Silverblade wrote: Your analysis of the practice looks like you are taking it way to seriously and you'll never have fun doing that. That's what RL is for, maybe. That is a fallacy, I have plenty of fun playing the markets, it is one of my favorite things to do in EVE. Why do you do it if it is not for fun? Sounding a bit hypocritical there :P .
Sabriz Adoudel Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 5208	Posted - 2015.07.31 10:30:43 - [28] - Quote Max Deveron wrote: Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Max Deveron wrote: I as industrialist (actually building the stuff) pretty much only have the ISK investment of the production costs to worry about. I have seen 0.01's do that to me on the market when i place things just below or even at their lowest sell order prices. Now what is funny is when i start dropping the price by 500k-5 million....they still keep dropping at .01 I dont place buy orders, i can build 100 destroyers at the cost of just under 100k, or some battlecruisers at the cost of 35 million for a stack of 10 of them and sell at 70-80 each, same with battleships, freighters, orcas, modules, and especially rigs. And if i have enough stock of something i can destroy the market quite easily because of the nature of .01's Like last November, talos were going for as much as 80-90 mill....when a 0.1 attempted to do his thing i just started dropping prices...i sold my last talos for about 70 mill when i was done. The market however had dipped afterwards to avg 60-64 on buy orders and as low as 66 on avg in sell orders and di not recover till late Feb/early March to its former Nov pricing. So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever? on side note my CEO told me not to do that anymore, because we have the ability like every other serious indy guy to dump several categories. There is no way to build destroyers at 100k each. I build Catalysts quite often and depending on the market they cost 600-850k to build each hull. They are a basket of minerals and are as such sensitive to price fluctuations, mostly caused by fluctuations in supercapital demand. IIRC the Mexallon alone is more than 100k even at the present historic low prices for Mex. But if you can build Catalysts for 100k each, feel free to contract twenty thousand of them to me at 200k each tomorrow, and another quarter million to my alliance. Had this discussion once a long time ago..... whether i do it myself or pay some one to do it....1 hour of mining will net all the low end minerals for 85-90 cats. a few missions and bam enough stuff to melt down takes care of the meg and zyd...... so yeah just paying the production costs....100 destroyers, cats/thrashers/corms are roughly about 40,000 isk per ship to build. You are a Minerals I Mine Are Free person? In that case, my offer to purchase twenty thousand catalysts at 200k each stands. Or any smaller number. I can provide BPCs if you do not own the relevant BPOs. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
virm pasuul Viziam Amarr Empire 312	Posted - 2015.07.31 11:04:21 - [29] - Quote This thread seems like a ego stroke "look how clever I am" post, but it paints the opposite picture to the intended one for me. There is a time and a place for 0.01ing, however that is not all the time and everywhere. Consideration of factors like daily volume, peaks and troughs, adjacent price density at certain points, awareness of market manipulation attempts, even market cost of raw materials versus market cost of finished item, can all make you more ISK for less effort. That you cannot see something does not mean it does not exist, only that you cannot see it. To answer the question that is the title of this thread. "To make more ISK."
Cista2 Phoibe Enterprises 129	Posted - 2015.07.31 11:23:10 - [30] - Quote Hate Myself wrote: Cista2 wrote: Because 0.01 isking is time-inefficient. It is the simplest of answers, yet you have still not realised it. Why? It is probably quicker, I don't have to make any decisions, I just 0.01 ISK. Don't change how often you check your orders, just 0.01 ISK everything.... profit! Ah, but you just said yourself, that if I undercut you with 10% then you will buy my stuff and relist it. This is exactly what i wanted you to do and what makes me happy. And you still don't get it. If i 0.01 ISK you then you will 0.01 ISK me and my stuff won't sell for days or weeks, unless I spent as much time and energy in the game as you do. Which I don't. So we are both happy, except only one of us aware of what is going on. My channel: "Signatures" - Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
Koniforous Tauren Transit 261	Posted - 2015.07.31 13:34:37 - [31] - Quote Cista2 wrote: In a sense it works very much like this thread here. You have posted 15 times, I have posted just 2 times. But I have already embarassed you, due to the fact that my posts - like my price cuts - dig deeper. I just bought the **** outta this listing. TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
Droodid Antec Enterprises 53	Posted - 2015.07.31 14:37:03 - [32] - Quote Hate Myself wrote: This has puzzled me for some time but I typically only see things from a 0.01 ISKGÇÖers point of view. Because I don't...Hate Myself!! (Badum-Tisch!). Sorry, couldn't resist.
0000000000ZERO0000000000 Zero Zentharis 2	Posted - 2015.07.31 15:10:30 - [33] - Quote Hate Myself wrote: Nope, I have been at it a few years (and yeah, 5-10b is not a lot). I'd think that large number of people in this thread make that much in profit each month, and I highly doubt they do so by .01 ISKing.
Makhpella Bad Taste. 40	Posted - 2015.07.31 15:25:11 - [34] - Quote Hate Myself wrote: So, yeah, I need educating, why do you NOT 0.01 ISK? You might lose your sanity.
Max Deveron Deveron Shipyards and Technology 220	Posted - 2015.07.31 17:08:32 - [35] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Max Deveron wrote: Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Max Deveron wrote: I as industrialist (actually building the stuff) pretty much only have the ISK investment of the production costs to worry about. I have seen 0.01's do that to me on the market when i place things just below or even at their lowest sell order prices. Now what is funny is when i start dropping the price by 500k-5 million....they still keep dropping at .01 I dont place buy orders, i can build 100 destroyers at the cost of just under 100k, or some battlecruisers at the cost of 35 million for a stack of 10 of them and sell at 70-80 each, same with battleships, freighters, orcas, modules, and especially rigs. And if i have enough stock of something i can destroy the market quite easily because of the nature of .01's Like last November, talos were going for as much as 80-90 mill....when a 0.1 attempted to do his thing i just started dropping prices...i sold my last talos for about 70 mill when i was done. The market however had dipped afterwards to avg 60-64 on buy orders and as low as 66 on avg in sell orders and di not recover till late Feb/early March to its former Nov pricing. So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever? on side note my CEO told me not to do that anymore, because we have the ability like every other serious indy guy to dump several categories. There is no way to build destroyers at 100k each. I build Catalysts quite often and depending on the market they cost 600-850k to build each hull. They are a basket of minerals and are as such sensitive to price fluctuations, mostly caused by fluctuations in supercapital demand. IIRC the Mexallon alone is more than 100k even at the present historic low prices for Mex. But if you can build Catalysts for 100k each, feel free to contract twenty thousand of them to me at 200k each tomorrow, and another quarter million to my alliance. Had this discussion once a long time ago..... whether i do it myself or pay some one to do it....1 hour of mining will net all the low end minerals for 85-90 cats. a few missions and bam enough stuff to melt down takes care of the meg and zyd...... so yeah just paying the production costs....100 destroyers, cats/thrashers/corms are roughly about 40,000 isk per ship to build. You are a Minerals I Mine Are Free person? In that case, my offer to purchase twenty thousand catalysts at 200k each stands. Or any smaller number. I can provide BPCs if you do not own the relevant BPOs. Hilarious, but no sorry...we dont sell cats, our alts use them. you will have to give us some better pricing, and also maybe guarantees....not limited to your entire Alliances API non-expiry for each account per player, a RL home number, maybe address, and a RL credit report before we do direct business with you. Oh and btw, i just know the numbers from testing them out....otherwise my corp rarely mines itself, we are Indy as in mnaufacturing not a mining corp.
HeXxploiT Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn 164	Posted - 2015.07.31 18:23:52 - [36] - Quote virm pasuul wrote: This thread seems like a ego stroke "look how clever I am" post, but it paints the opposite picture to the intended one for me. There is a time and a place for 0.01ing, however that is not all the time and everywhere. Consideration of factors like daily volume, peaks and troughs, adjacent price density at certain points, awareness of market manipulation attempts, even market cost of raw materials versus market cost of finished item, can all make you more ISK for less effort. That you cannot see something does not mean it does not exist, only that you cannot see it. To answer the question that is the title of this thread. "To make more ISK." I think he's speaking what he knows from his limited experience. The reality is more evident to those of us who are more experienced traders. I have found that one of the biggest mistakes traders make is always wanting to get the maximum profit from their investment. Many inexperienced traders fail to realize that time=isk. Trouble with this philosophy is that it takes you a week to get rid of your position at 100% profit potential when you could have received 75% profit potential in one day and then had that much more free isk to trade with. The bottom line is that if you turn a profit you are succeeding but not all traders are created equal and this is something that takes time and experience to learn.
Aker Krane OMEGADYNE LABS Rising Darkness 17	Posted - 2015.07.31 18:46:24 - [37] - Quote HeXxploiT wrote: I have found that one of the biggest mistakes traders make is always wanting to get the maximum profit from their investment. Many inexperienced traders fail to realize that time=isk. This ^
Elizabeth Norn Nornir Research Create Alliance 633	Posted - 2015.07.31 18:48:09 - [38] - Quote Max Deveron wrote: Hilarious, but no sorry...we dont sell cats, our alts use them. you will have to give us some better pricing, and also maybe guarantees....not limited to your entire Alliances API non-expiry for each account per player, a RL home number, maybe address, and a RL credit report before we do direct business with you. Oh and btw, i just know the numbers from testing them out....otherwise my corp rarely mines itself, we are Indy as in mnaufacturing not a mining corp. You can have all of my information if you'll sell me destroyers at 400k/unit . WTS ME 10 TE 20 BPOs & BPO Packs WTS Collectible Large Rigged Small/Medium Ships
Sabriz Adoudel Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 5208	Posted - 2015.08.01 00:55:59 - [39] - Quote HeXxploiT wrote: I think he's speaking what he knows from his limited experience. The reality is more evident to those of us who are more experienced traders. I have found that one of the biggest mistakes traders make is always wanting to get the maximum profit from their investment. Many inexperienced traders fail to realize that time=isk. Trouble with this philosophy is that it takes you a week to get rid of your position at 100% profit potential when you could have received 75% profit potential in one day and then had that much more free isk to trade with. The bottom line is that if you turn a profit you are succeeding but not all traders are created equal and this is something that takes time and experience to learn. Part of it is understanding whether you are capital constrained or RL time constrained. One of the hardest things to do, IMO, is to incur expenses to gain liquidity fast to seize a short term opportunity. Whether it be overpaying for a loan to get it filled within ten minutes, or selling trade stock below what you paid for it, to jump on something better. I did this when the CovOps rebalance was announced - immediately looked for a loan and offered more than fair interest to get it filled fast, so I could run multiple lines vomiting out Lachesis hulls. Worked for me - I had to pay 300m for the loan (5b at 6%/month with decent collateral) but easily made more than that back. I missed the opportunity to do this on Morphite. Once I'd established that it would go from 6.6k to (my projection) 10.5-11k, I should have panic sold everything semi-liquid and bought up three or four million units. Instead I only bought half a million with the ISK I had on hand. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
Plato Idari Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 25	Posted - 2015.08.01 03:30:10 - [40] - Quote I don't .01 isk because I value my time more than you do. It makes more sense for me to raise the price to the point where you wont/cant .01 isk me than it to stick around every 5 minutes to change my price. If I really care about an order I might check in on it once an hour.
Sabriz Adoudel Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 5211	Posted - 2015.08.01 06:48:37 - [41] - Quote Plato Idari wrote: I don't .01 isk because I value my time more than you do. It makes more sense for me to raise the price to the point where you wont/cant .01 isk me than it to stick around every 5 minutes to change my price. If I really care about an order I might check in on it once an hour. If I'm ddoing something semi passive like POS bashing oror waiting out a GCC timer I'm happy to check orders each five minutes. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
Avi Shekelstien New Order Logistics CODE. 14	Posted - 2015.08.02 10:48:10 - [42] - Quote Why not 0.01? Job, family, social life...
Thomas Cromwell School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.08.02 16:50:48 - [43] - Quote Is it possible to trade in Jita without 0.01isking every 5 minutes? I thought it was only possible if you massively undercut everyone and limit your profits.
Cista2 Phoibe Enterprises 139	Posted - 2015.08.02 17:56:55 - [44] - Quote Thomas Cromwell wrote: Is it possible to trade in Jita without 0.01isking every 5 minutes? I thought it was only possible if you massively undercut everyone and limit your profits. Prices move up and down in cycles or due to changes in EVE gameplay. If you can predict the direction of movement, your price is golden :) My channel: "Signatures" - Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
Thomas Cromwell School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.08.02 19:00:22 - [45] - Quote Cista2 wrote: Thomas Cromwell wrote: Is it possible to trade in Jita without 0.01isking every 5 minutes? I thought it was only possible if you massively undercut everyone and limit your profits. Prices move up and down in cycles or due to changes in EVE gameplay. If you can predict the direction of movement, your price is golden :) In many ways I think this is how people escape 0.01 isking. Even if you only update your order a few times a day, eventually it will be filled I guess. If it turns out the item has dropped, then just wait till it raises again. I'm only new to trading, so I'm not sure of this will work out, but I would much rather get a slower return from leisurely trading than spending 12 hours a day updating prices every 5 minutes.
Tomb Ovaert Freelance Entreprises LLC 3	Posted - 2015.08.03 11:14:03 - [46] - Quote Professionals don't cent ISK, they adjust by a whole ISK.
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop 4039	Posted - 2015.08.03 21:34:52 - [47] - Quote I sell stuff in small markets. I have from zero to 4-5 active competitors on the items I sell. So: . If competitors' price is ok for me (decent profits) --> I -0,01 ISK (or a bit more, I just roll the scroll wheel a bit) . If price is too high --> I list at a high but more reasonable price, in order to not scare off potential buyers . If it's too low --> I list at a decent (higher) price and wait for the other dude to change his mind or deplete his stock . If it's close to or lower than my costs --> I buy everything! Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Sabriz Adoudel Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 5212	Posted - 2015.08.03 23:37:40 - [48] - Quote Tomb Ovaert wrote: Professionals don't cent ISK, they adjust by a whole ISK. 10.01 or 100.01 is better. A good 10% of the time the first undercutter doesn't realise this and you get 5 more minutes as the best order. On high value items (battleship hulls, exhumers, etc) 10000.01 is better again. Harder to notice. 10 million and a cent is an option on Maruaders and similarly priced items but I don't trade those often enough to comment. Incidentally this is why I tend to avoid prices that end in lots of 9s. 9 and 8 look similar enough that it's an easy mistake to make to not notice someone changing a digit to an 8. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda 1798	Posted - 2015.08.04 12:13:40 - [49] - Quote i tend to undercut by more than 1m / sell order i usually build the stuff i sell and i make sure that all my jobs have at least 50m in profit. that way, i can undercut 50 times before actually loosing anything. deep undercutting tends to (temporarily) scare away people from a market which makes it much easier to turn over my items. and i want my money invested in indu lines, not in stuff sitting in the auction house.
Sabriz Adoudel Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 5213	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:24:06 - [50] - Quote Gilbaron wrote: i tend to undercut by more than 1m / sell order i usually build the stuff i sell and i make sure that all my jobs have at least 50m in profit. that way, i can undercut 50 times before actually loosing anything. deep undercutting tends to (temporarily) scare away people from a market which makes it much easier to turn over my items. and i want my money invested in indu lines, not in stuff sitting in the auction house. I do this if and only if my production operations are capital constrained. For me, this is necessary if I'm building tech 2 cruisers and comparably expensive items. I simply cannot afford to sit on 85 Oneiroses or 65 Ishtars. Generally though, I find that anything I could produce where I would be capital constrained, I hit a different barrier first: my personal production operations cause a localised flooding of the market and drive down prices. For what it's worth, I have no hesitation selling something I produced below build cost if my market instincts are telling me that the price is falling and will not recover. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
Tau Cabalander Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs 5194	Posted - 2015.08.04 23:55:41 - [51] - Quote I'll only 0.01 ISK if the market competition is very tight. If the other traders are very aggressive at 0.01 ISK, I'll just say frell-it and move the order to my minimally-acceptable price. If that is challenged, I'll just wait. There are some items that I only sell direct to buy orders, because the movement in the sell orders is glacial (unrealistic profit expectations, or aggressive competitors).
Sabriz Adoudel Black Hydra Consortium. CODE. 5214	Posted - 2015.08.05 00:13:43 - [52] - Quote Tau Cabalander wrote: I'll only 0.01 ISK if the market competition is very tight. If the other traders are very aggressive at 0.01 ISK, I'll just say frell-it and move the order to my minimally-acceptable price. If that is challenged, I'll just wait. There are some items that I only sell direct to buy orders, because the movement in the sell orders is glacial (unrealistic profit expectations, or aggressive competitors). How do you determine your minimally-acceptable price? I don't like to have a formula for something like that (103% of what I paid, or similar) as sometimes you want to dump stock fast and are OK with taking a loss, but this isn't something I do lightly. Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out. I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda 1798	Posted - 2015.08.05 14:37:19 - [53] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Gilbaron wrote: i tend to undercut by more than 1m / sell order i usually build the stuff i sell and i make sure that all my jobs have at least 50m in profit. that way, i can undercut 50 times before actually loosing anything. deep undercutting tends to (temporarily) scare away people from a market which makes it much easier to turn over my items. and i want my money invested in indu lines, not in stuff sitting in the auction house. I do this if and only if my production operations are capital constrained. For me, this is necessary if I'm building tech 2 cruisers and comparably expensive items. I simply cannot afford to sit on 85 Oneiroses or 65 Ishtars. Generally though, I find that anything I could produce where I would be capital constrained, I hit a different barrier first: my personal production operations cause a localised flooding of the market and drive down prices. For what it's worth, I have no hesitation selling something I produced below build cost if my market instincts are telling me that the price is falling and will not recover. i always keep an eye on what jita moves per day. 65 ishtars wouldn't be a problem for me to sit on, since jita alone moves close to 200/day. i just don't invest that much in a single product for other reasons. i wouldn't get nowhere near those 85 oneiros though. my personal rules for indu jobs are: no more than 1b/item invested. no more than a days worth of sales per item cooking. that way i can keep risks relatively low. and if one product falls in price, i can easily afford waiting for a week or even a month.

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.