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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.06 16:03:00 -
[1]
By far the easiest way to make them usefull again would be to change them towards torpedo launchers instead of cruise.
The (hidden) signature bonus should stay as it is and would make the torps very powerful vs pretty much everything bigger than a frig. (especially with rage torps)
Maybe change the dmg-bonus on them into and additionl target signature bonus to make the torps hit harder vs cruiser sized targets.
Not sure if that would be effectiv to keep the dmg vs BS about the same but increase the dmg vs cruiser.
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that. 
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.06 19:09:00 -
[2]
I think all of us agree that the stealth bombers are pretty useless atm.
The main point of disagreement is what their role should be.
From my point of view i would like them to be battleship killers.
I would love them to have a real niche and not being multirole.
For that the bomber would need a very decent alpha strike that should to be delivered from close to medium range and be a real threat to BS in the first place, second to cruisers and not at all to frigs.
This would be best/easiest achieved by letting them fit torps instead of cruise as torps can be outrun by frigs with AB/MWD pretty easily and even if they get hit they wont get much damage due to their small signature, same goes for cruisers to a lesser extend.
Detection IS a problem for stealth bombers but what to do about it?
Solutions might be:
- give them the cov ops cloak, at least the approch would be easier that way
(i wouldnt use the bomber with that as ship/equipment would be worth more than a tier 1 BS and that with a paperthin armor/shiel)
- let them passiv lock (with the module) while cloaked and let missiles keep their lock when ship re-cloaks
- scrap the cloak for the ship and give it a passiv bonus to signature that would make it extremly hard to lock (even with sensor-boosters)
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.07 08:03:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Prescience
Edited by: Prescience on 06/12/2006 19:24:16
Ok, Ill go with this, you've swayed me, however I would still like the option of being threatening to frigs. Most of my kills with my Nemesis has been against smaller targets.
"In addition, stealth bombers' extremely advanced missile navigation subroutines are able to triangulate a cruise missile's trajectory in advance, resulting in a decreased factor of signature radius and making the missile more effective against smaller targets"
This is taken from its description, from which I dont like to deviate too much. If CCP are going to change them they wont make MASSIVE alterations, probably just tweak them. Although, far be it for me to second guess CCP!!
I would focus more on the detection. If they used covert ops cloaks, I would just stop using them, I own *EDIT* two COC(T2) and I recently checked the price in THE FORGE. I was SHOCKED.
Im thinking that they wont want to alter the craft too much so that it makes it unusable by players using it already, so we have a framework of skills to surround it. I just looked and its suprisingly easy to fly one of these things. Only 2 lvl 5 skills for a T2 frig.
Well, Im stumped, it would really be for CCP to decide, using the suggestions we put here perhaps.
I few points on your post:
- I dont think changing their bonus from cruise launchers to siege launchers would be to hard, i could bet it would be just a minimal change to the DB but thats just a guess.
- Skillwise i dont think people using the stealth bombers (shouldnt be that many anyway) would be very upset to train up their torp skills instead as they will clearly see the advantage.
- Changing the descripton (except for the bonus part) wouldnt even be necessary as with the signature bonus (still hidden). The torps launched from a stealth bomber would be way more effectiv vs frigs than launched from a raven so the description still holds true after the proposed change.
- Prices for the covert ops cloak II are insane atm, i certainly wouldnt fly a combat frig fitted with one (i still love my helios) as its to risky for my taste.
- I used the Nemesis and the Manticore to some extend getting a few solo kills with both (mostly frigs) and in gang also a few cruiser kills.
Im sure i dont need to tell you anything about tactics for its usage but from my pov all the kills we could pull of were from the really good damage these babys can deliver befor the target can react.
As soon as one of the targets gets to shoot back or even worse pulls out his drones you better speed up for a hasty warpout. (sentry drones are a real horror)
I really do hope the devs do something about the stealth bombers to make them usefull again as it is now they are pretty suicidal to fly. With the HP increase the targets either have time to warp out or even worse close in and rip the bomber.
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.08 12:31:00 -
[4]
Originally by: TheBelgarion
- giving it CovOps Cloak ( SEED MORE OF EM)
- targeting /fireing whiel cloaked
looks like a great alpha strike weapon ...
but than again ... having a 4-6 BS gate camping gang jumped but 10-20++ Stealth Bomber and going insta POP - sound like a nice story ... but only for the winning team :-)
If you can get 20+ ppl together to gank a 6 BS gate camp it doesnt really matter what ships you are using. 
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.08 14:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: ScythedMiner
A random thought popped into my head while reading the thread.
Why are we only thinking about stealth bombers Vs other ships??
Using the RL analogy (bad I know but you gotta start somewhere) aren't stealth bombers more effective against less mobile things - like Capital ships (Titans, Motherships, Carriers, Dreads) and maybe POS's?
Basicly yes but what weapon could you fit them to achiev that?
Citadel Torps!
As much as i would love to have those on a frig im pretty sure that will never happen.
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.10 20:59:00 -
[6]
Bump!
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.15 23:02:00 -
[7]
A bump for a good idea to solve a serious problem!
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.17 23:28:00 -
[8]
To go into the ideas of those last two post:
1. about the Bomber Version (from AGDruss):
- extrem heavy hitting one-shot weapon, yes please!!! maybe single shot citadel launcher but i cant see that coming
- remove the cloak, yes as long as it gets some counter lock ability
- remove pilot from local, i cant see that happen in any case
2. about the Stealth Hunter (from AGDruss):
I think we already got a ship like that, the Recon class!
Ok its not a frig but still plays your described role pretty well.
3. about the Stealth Bomber (from Neky Lyk)
- heavy hitting weapon that needs to be delivered up close and that can only hit BIG targets, yeah i could live with that
- cloak as it is (i think), not that usefull at all atm and that wont change
Could all of you interrested in this thread answere a few questions pls?
1) Which stealth method would you prefer?
a. cov ops cloak b. extremly small sig c. keep it as it is d. something different
2) What dmg delivery would you prefer?
a. massiv alpha but low DPS [eg. torp or citadel] b. good DPS but low alpha [eg. HAM]
3) What range of dmg delivery?
a. medium b. short c. extremly short
4. What ships should it have as primary targets?
a. all of them b. cruise and bigger c. BC and bigger d. capitals and POS
Lets think of ways to achive a "working" stealth bomber without too many changes.
PPL should be able to use it without the need of heavy retraining nor should it be necessary for CCP to do lots of reprogramming.
Keep it simple and we might actually get what we want soon(tm).
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.20 23:21:00 -
[9]
The problem i see with citadel torps is their launcher description (size of a small frigate) and the torps small volume (0.6m3).
And a bomber just shouldnt be able to fire several salvos of them, giving them efectivly the same firepower as the caldari dread.
So to make them realisticly available to the cov ops bombers it would be necessary to bring another launcher into EVE. Some kind of missile rack with only a 1-3 citadel torps per rack and a rather long RoF would be appropriate. Ammo would still be a bit too small for my taste (too many reloads even with frig sized cargo) but that cant be helped without hurting the caldari capitals.
Also another factor is the time to get the skills for these babys!
At least torps lvl5 will take some time for most ppl that are able to use the cov ops bombers atm.
Anyone has a real idea what kind of damage 3 citadels torps do to a BS?
(i dont have the skills for the citdel torps)
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2006.12.20 23:21:00 -
[10]
The problem i see with citadel torps is their launcher description (size of a small frigate) and the torps small volume (0.6m3).
And a bomber just shouldnt be able to fire several salvos of them, giving them efectivly the same firepower as the caldari dread.
So to make them realisticly available to the cov ops bombers it would be necessary to bring another launcher into EVE. Some kind of missile rack with only a 1-3 citadel torps per rack and a rather long RoF would be appropriate. Ammo would still be a bit too small for my taste (too many reloads even with frig sized cargo) but that cant be helped without hurting the caldari capitals.
Also another factor is the time to get the skills for these babys!
At least torps lvl5 will take some time for most ppl that are able to use the cov ops bombers atm.
Anyone has a real idea what kind of damage 3 citadels torps do to a BS?
(i dont have the skills for the citdel torps)
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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Sir Drake
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Posted - 2007.01.14 08:30:00 -
[11]
Or to offer a totally different approche:
Keep the ship like it is but give them the unique ability to target sub-system (with a ship scanner module).
1-2 salvos for a hi-slot module (wouldnt you love to disable the targets guns that way?)
3-4 salvos for a mid slot module (more hits needed because of the modules deeper integration in the ship)
6-8 salvos for a low-slot module
some % of the damage goes to the shield/armor but the rest leaks through
It would be a rather sweet way to make them usefull for killing/disableing ships with strong tanks.
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Sig was removed due to derogatory comments towards a group of people. -Karl Chroimcer
I like that.
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