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ifeelit2 Gallente Just Cloned Again	Posted - 2006.12.04 12:58:00 - [1] hey doing the salvage thing is not the worse thing in the world to do... yes i know it takes time. i know not every wreck gives salvage... but you do get to pop the wrecks.. just keep trying to salvage until you get success and pop the wrecks... it ads about 15mins to your mission time... for me (guess i am old enough to sit back and relax) and just do it. its all good, for someone, somewhere and in some context :) Just Cloned Again JCA Corp our webpage works on the in game browser
Shemar Gallente Photesthetics Glamour Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:18:00 - [2] Exactly how many ships do you pop per mission? Because it's over 100 for me. I'd sure like to see how to salvage 100 wrecks in 3-5 different rooms, sometimes 100 km apart in 15 minutes. I could not even loot in 15 minutes and that's with a 2 tractror beam ship doing 750 m/s and enough cargo space to never need a second trip. Before the whole salvage mess made looting not worth the time. I am not saying make salvage easier. I am saying bring looting back to what it was, for those that don't want to salvage. As for salvage itself... Too easy or too hard, rewarding or not, these are things that will be decided by the market and the players who will opt to do it or not. With a huge chunk of the people that intend to salvage still waiting for the lowering of the reqs, it's impossible to tell what the market for salvaged parts and their products will really look like at this time. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:40:00 - [3] Originally by: ifeelit2 hey doing the salvage thing is not the worse thing in the world to do... yes i know it takes time. i know not every wreck gives salvage... but you do get to pop the wrecks.. just keep trying to salvage until you get success and pop the wrecks... it ads about 15mins to your mission time... I've had salvage from 15 minutes after it was trainable on TQ. I'll finish training Salvage 4 tomorrow. I'm patient, and I've been diligently salvaging for almost a week now. Every.Last.Wreck. (well, up until the point that I realised certain spawns never drop salvage). Missions, belt npcs and even a few player shipwrecks... all have been picked over with my quad-salvager destroyer. I feel like a vulture (no, not the command ship). It was fun at first. ...the "What am I going to get this time?" feeling when you get loot, with added salvage. Unfortunately all too soon it became clear that, most of the time, the answer is 'nothing' (no loot, no salvage). Which doesn't really make sense - I'm pretty sure most wrecks would have a few usable scraps left... apart from 'scrap metal' I mean. After a week (nearly) I don't even have enough pieces for a single rig. I have plenty of pieces of some of the more common drops, but only a fraction of what's required of the rarer 'circuits'. Some missions / ships drop no salvage at all. Others seem to be woefully low drop rates (e.g. Angel Extrav last night: 7 salvage components from the 5 stages, which made me feel like swearing off salvaging ever again). As for adding 15 minutes to the mission time - for a mission like the Angel / Gurista Extravaganza or the Blockade it takes as long to loot the cans as it does to complete the mission, if not longer. Even using a dedicated salvage ship. Mining is more fun than salvaging right now....and that's saying something. At least with mining you get a guaranteed (and predictable) return on the time invested.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:45:00 - [4] The thing is, mission rats drop the least salvage of any wreck. This was done on urpose, it seems, to stop missions being your one stop shop for rig materials, on demand. Salvaging in belts, however, that seems to be a different matter. Belt rats seem a lot more lucrative, so your average 0.0 ratter is producing far more worthwhile wrecks than a mission runner. Not tried it yet, but I'd imagine player wrecks are "teh win" for salvage. Having a salvage cruiser following around your fleet to clear up after PvP might be the new money-making trend. And lets face it, anything that makes PvP actually earn you money rather than be some sort of expensive luxury is well worth it. -----------------------------------------------
Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:45:00 - [5] Well as it stands at the moment, creating one rig requires dozens of man hours and thousands of wrecks. The result is that a single rig costs vastly more than the ship you fit it to, since time = isk in EVE. I don't see many people bothering, tbh, apart from a dedicated few.
Hot Pod	Posted - 2006.12.04 13:49:00 - [6] http://i11.tinypic.com/2llempx.jpg Warp Drive Active, cant wait till tuesday!
Dumus Silver Service	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:03:00 - [7] I have a technique that might help some of you after I finish a mission I tractor all the wrecks to one or two spots. I loot them all and then head to base to swap to meh salvager. I use a d a m nation with six salvage mods and a tractor beam then simply warp back to the BM I made and set all six salvagers going, as the wrecks pop, I just activate on another one till there are all gone. Obviously some missions the spawns are spread out but you just tractor your wrecks into groups. It adds a considerable time to the mission but I think long term it will be worth it. At any rate I like to keep things tidy The d a m nation is fitted with all nano's in the lows and its like being in a frigate If you have a large mission then simply whack in some expanders. I can get over 1200m3 in her if they are all expander 1's. I am sure there may be cheaper ships to use to get the same benefits though -Dumus-
ifeelit2 Gallente Just Cloned Again	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:15:00 - [8] Edited by: ifeelit2 on 04/12/2006 14:16:31 Originally by: Shemar Exactly how many ships do you pop per mission? Because it's over 100 for me. I'd sure like to see how to salvage 100 wrecks in 3-5 different rooms, sometimes 100 km apart in 15 minutes. I could not even loot in 15 minutes and that's with a 2 tractror beam ship doing 750 m/s and enough cargo space to never need a second trip. Before the whole salvage mess made looting not worth the time. i am sorry but this is just an ignorant rant and i will not answer it. Originally by: Shemar I am not saying make salvage easier. I am saying bring looting back to what it was, for those that don't want to salvage. i agree with this, also i would add, that wrecks have no ownership. after the loot is gone... if you loot but do not salvage someone else can come and and its open season Originally by: Shemar As for salvage itself... Too easy or too hard, rewarding or not, these are things that will be decided by the market and the players who will opt to do it or not. With a huge chunk of the people that intend to salvage still waiting for the lowering of the reqs, it's impossible to tell what the market for salvaged parts and their products will really look like at this time. i totally agree again :) i could not have said it better, nice job on all but the first section shemar :) My corp runs tons of missions due to the jump clone service and well for us its a nice break to just sit back and salvage :) Just Cloned Again JCA Corp our webpage works on the in game browser
Shemar Gallente Photesthetics Glamour Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Dumus after I finish a mission I tractor all the wrecks to one or two spots. And how long does that take you after a level 4 "Angel Extravaganza", "Mordu's Headhunters", "Worlds Collide" or "In the Midst of DeadSpace, Part 1"? How long does it take you to actually solo these missions with one high slot wasted on a tractor beam? ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
Shemar Gallente Photesthetics Glamour Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:20:00 - [10] Originally by: ifeelit2 Originally by: Shemar Exactly how many ships do you pop per mission? Because it's over 100 for me. I'd sure like to see how to salvage 100 wrecks in 3-5 different rooms, sometimes 100 km apart in 15 minutes. I could not even loot in 15 minutes and that's with a 2 tractror beam ship doing 750 m/s and enough cargo space to never need a second trip. Before the whole salvage mess made looting not worth the time. i am sorry but this is just an ignorant rant and i will not answer it. Yes because it's not like all I have been doing on EVE for the last 18 months is solo level 4 missions. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision

Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:40:00 - [11] One thing some folks seem to be missing is that the word "salvager" connotes the concept of gleaning stuff from wrecks you did not kill yourself. Yes, it's very slow to amass salvage parts if you have to manufacture every wreck yourself. It takes a lot of killin', and killin' takes a lot of time. If you're only salvaging your own wrecks, you're like those folks in coastal England who used to set up fake lighthouses to lure ships into their cliffs on a dark night, and then row out through the pounding surf in little balsa-wood boats to salvage the resulting wrecks. Lot of time and effort in that. Sure, it beats sheep farming, but that's about the best that can be said of it. It's much much faster to amass rig parts if you salvage wrecks that other people have already killed. There are huge drifting piles of these, in belts and especially in mission spaces. Last night I found an abandoned mission space that had four huge piles of empty wrecks, twenty plus wrecks per pile, all neatly tractored together into salvage range and considerately pre-looted. The drop rate didn't feel too bad, then. I know this seems obvious, but it doesn't seem to BE obvious to some of the folks concerned about how slow salvaging is. Salvaging is not that slow. Salvaging PLUS killing PLUS looting? Yeah, doing that you'll be at it 'till the day after Doomsday. So don't do that.
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.12.04 14:54:00 - [12] Originally by: Marlenus One thing some folks seem to be missing is that the word "salvager" connotes the concept of gleaning stuff from wrecks you did not kill yourself. Yes, it's very slow to amass salvage parts if you have to manufacture every wreck yourself. It takes a lot of killin', and killin' takes a lot of time. If you're only salvaging your own wrecks, you're like those folks in coastal England who used to set up fake lighthouses to lure ships into their cliffs on a dark night, and then row out through the pounding surf in little balsa-wood boats to salvage the resulting wrecks. Lot of time and effort in that. Sure, it beats sheep farming, but that's about the best that can be said of it. It's much much faster to amass rig parts if you salvage wrecks that other people have already killed. There are huge drifting piles of these, in belts and especially in mission spaces. Last night I found an abandoned mission space that had four huge piles of empty wrecks, twenty plus wrecks per pile, all neatly tractored together into salvage range and considerately pre-looted. The drop rate didn't feel too bad, then. I know this seems obvious, but it doesn't seem to BE obvious to some of the folks concerned about how slow salvaging is. Salvaging is not that slow. Salvaging PLUS killing PLUS looting? Yeah, doing that you'll be at it 'till the day after Doomsday. So don't do that. The only problem with salvaging other people's wrecks right now (and I've done it in addition to those I created myself) is that, unless they loot the wreck first, there's no way to salvage it without getting yourself tagged as a criminal 'can thief' ...basically leaving yourself wide open to getting your salvage ship blasted (and salvaged by someone else). Right now there's also no way to tell if a ship has been looted but not salvaged, and it takes a lot of time to investigate all the wrecks created by others because they can't be tractored either.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.04 15:05:00 - [13] Edited by: Plutoinum on 04/12/2006 15:16:39 Originally by: ifeelit2 its all good, for someone, somewhere and in some context :) Must be in some strange context. The whole market needs to be supplied with rigs, not just the personal ships of the mission runner and it needs to be at a price that makes it viable to rig up t1 cruisers or even t1 frigs under some circumstances with t1-rigs. And the rig-production shouldn't just fill the pockets of the carebear, who goes low-risk/zero-risk, grinds all day and gets it as an extra reward. edit: Wrecks should definately give the more components, the higher the risk and effort for the ship-killer and salvager is. There should definitely better drops in low sec and 0.0 asteroid belts than in missions and especially better drops in low sec than in high sec for example. If the rewards would be too high, cut down all bounties and give more rig components. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Tharrn Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2006.12.04 15:09:00 - [14] My main gripe with salvaging is that it is about as boring and tedious as mining. Turn on module, stare at screen, wait, wait, wait, rinse and repeat. Something more involved would have been nice but that's probably too much to ask for if there's existing code that can by recycled (archeology and hacking anyone?) :P Now recruiting!
UnknownVirus	Posted - 2006.12.04 15:11:00 - [15] I may not have had done any salvaging and dont plan on getting salvaging for a couple of weeks cause i need to train a few skills before i train survey. But it seems from what i heard half the time ppl dont get salvage from a shipwreck. For me its causing a problem, ie i dont make much money, 1/4 of my income comes from looting, right now im still on lvl 2 missions and most ships dont even drop loot making picking up the ships that drop loot very hard to find. So out of time now its more cost effective for me just to leave the loot, by the time i pick up the loot i could of made another mil and more loyalty points and standing for the corp im doing. THEY REALLY NEED TO SEPERATE THE LOOT FROM THE WRECKAGE OR THE WRECKAGE WITH LOOT NEEDS THE BE A DIFFERENT COLOR OR SHAPE. Another thing is i dont manufacture so all my wreckage will be either sold, refined, or givin to my corp so they can make rigs. So as of now salvaging sucks even if i could salvag.
Shemar Gallente Photesthetics Glamour Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.04 15:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Slevin Kalebra The only problem with salvaging other people's wrecks right now (and I've done it in addition to those I created myself) is that, unless they loot the wreck first, there's no way to salvage it without getting yourself tagged as a criminal 'can thief' ...basically leaving yourself wide open to getting your salvage ship blasted (and salvaged by someone else). This gets compounded for the salvager from the fact that, from a mission runner's perspective, until (and if ever) there is a way to tell which wrecks contain loot and which do not, without having to search them all manually, it is far more likely for mission runners to either not loot/salvage at all or loot as they salvage. So it will be very hard for salvagers to find already emptied wrecks. Originally by: Slevin Kalebra Right now there's also no way to tell if a ship has been looted but not salvaged, and it takes a lot of time to investigate all the wrecks created by others because they can't be tractored either. There is. There is a check box in your overview settings, appearance tab that says "Apply to ships only" or something like that. Uncheck that and 'free' wrecks should look white while 'owned' wrecks should look yellow. CCP plans to turn that checkbox off by default on tomorrow's patch. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.04 15:27:00 - [17] salvaging sucks when your salvage a shuttle to recieve 1 metal scrap , then you salvage a battlecruiser and get the exact same thing! you just blew up a 20mil+ ship and it dont even have crap ------------------------- I am a nobody of IMP my views are my own.
Shemar Gallente Photesthetics Glamour Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.04 15:28:00 - [18] Edited by: Shemar on 04/12/2006 15:31:12 Originally by: Plutoinum Must be in some strange context. The whole market needs to be supplied with rigs, not just the personal ships of the mission runner and it needs to be at a price that makes it viable to rig up t1 cruisers or even t1 frigs under some circumstances with t1-rigs. Says who? Maybe faction loot should also be cheap enough to fit it on T1 frigs and go to suicide runs? Originally by: Plutoinum And the rig-production shouldn't just fill the pockets of the carebear, who goes low-risk/zero-risk, grinds all day and gets it as an extra reward. If you feel they are better rewarded* for their time than you, do it too. Simple enough solution. Originally by: Plutoinum Wrecks should definately give the more components, the higher the risk and effort for the ship-killer and salvager is. There should definitely better drops in low sec and 0.0 asteroid belts than in missions and especially better drops in low sec than in high sec for example. If the rewards would be too high, cut down all bounties and give more rig components. Wrecks should give loot/components based on what was on the ship, not who flew it. If that's what you mean, then we agree, but if you imply that the very same ship should give more because it was driven by a player and not an NPC, you are wrong. Edit: And of course by 'rewarded' I don't mean ISK, I mean in terms of how much enjoyment one takes from the game. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision*
Phoenix Jones	Posted - 2006.12.04 15:57:00 - [19] maybe they should have separated salvage and loot cans. ---------------The Low Sec Issue------------- Gatecamps that kill all who pass with no remorse and in many cases, no possible way of retaliation, is not PVP.
Slevin Kalebra	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Phoenix Jones maybe they should have separated salvage and loot cans. ....and have twice the lag

Halya Lamina	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:13:00 - [21] I would too prefer that CCP introduced back the loot cans and still keep the wrecks. Would be easier for everyone.
OneSock	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Halya Lamina I would too prefer that CCP introduced back the loot cans and still keep the wrecks. Would be easier for everyone. Agreed. Sod the lag, it really isn't a big issue. drop a can and a wreck. Normal can mechanics apply. Wrecks are neutral and can be salvaged and tractored by anybody. Easy this way non salvagers can just turn them off in the overview and loot as normal. salvagers don't have to worry about criminal flagging and can use tractors on all wrecks. Keep the game mechanics simple. Then just fix the rat types which are not dropping salvage. Fix the salvage tables so there is a more even distribution of salvage material types. Oh and lower the material requirements on rig BPOs.
Illegal KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:43:00 - [23] Edited by: Illegal on 04/12/2006 16:43:29 missed a ship For level 4 missions: Ship 1: CNR - for killing everything (ofcourse) pure combat kit Ship 2: Omen - for consolidating all the loot into 1 can. 5 tractor, speed kit and SB Ship 3: Badger II - to pick up above said 1 can of loot. Ship 4: ?? havent salvaged yet but i guess it will be a new shiny omen for me! --
Kylania Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.04 16:51:00 - [24] The key really is the 5km range of salvagers and the fact that you don't have to open cans anymore to tell if they have loot in them or not. Either using the salvager tool, or the new color coding coming tomorrow. You don't need to tractor cans everywhere at all. Simply load up 3 salvagers and 1 tractor beam and fly to a can. Within 5km shoot it with your salvager, if it takes the can is empty, fire the rest of the salvagers and the tractor to drag it along with you and head to the next can. By the time you've reached the next can a few km away, your three salvagers should have finished with the first can. Repeat the process and away ya go. A Exequor setup for this has a 450m/sec speed and at least 1000m¦ of cargo (that's with 1 Expanded Cargohold I, there's two more low slots available). Or tomorrow with the new has-loot color coding, just ignore the empty wrecks. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| CCG Card Lookup
Shemar Gallente Photesthetics Glamour Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.04 17:09:00 - [25] Edited by: Shemar on 04/12/2006 17:22:06 Originally by: Kylania The key really is the 5km range of salvagers and the fact that you don't have to open cans anymore to tell if they have loot in them or not. Either using the salvager tool, or the new color coding coming tomorrow. Once again, the color coding will not* tell you if there is loot in the can or not, it will only tell you if it is criminally flagged or not, which indicates to other players, not the owner if the wreck has already been looted. Devs said they are 'looking into' having a different icon for 'looted' wrecks but that: a. Is not coming tomorrow b. Will not tell you if there is loot or not in the wreck until you actually loot the wreck. unless somehting changed in the last 4 or so hours. Edit for patch notes update in the last couple of hours: The looted/not looted icon will be in tomorrow. Still nothing on the has/does not have loot so all that really dies for looters is take away the need to gang with yourself and tag the looted cans. ________________ Enhanced eye sight does not make up for the lack of vision*
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2006.12.04 21:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Slevin Kalebra The only problem with salvaging other people's wrecks right now (and I've done it in addition to those I created myself) is that, unless they loot the wreck first, there's no way to salvage it without getting yourself tagged as a criminal 'can thief' ...basically leaving yourself wide open to getting your salvage ship blasted (and salvaged by someone else). It's a risk. But I've been a salvager for months and months. You get used to it. Normal precautions apply. Stay alert. There are a lot of situations where you can tell with 85% certainty that the guy who owns the wrecks isn't coming back. Bear in mind that right now, there are a lot of empty wrecks dropping. You can salvage all those safely; you don't get crim flagged if you try to salvage a wreck with loot, you just get a salvager error message. Originally by: Slevin Kalebra Right now there's also no way to tell if a ship has been looted but not salvaged, and it takes a lot of time to investigate all the wrecks created by others because they can't be tractored either. I'm still playing with ship types, but I've got a setup that's working for me. It takes some time, but it's pretty speedy. For salvaging wrecks I can't tractor, I use a Moa with nanos in the low slots and a battleship afterburner, with five or six salvagers in the high slots. (The mids carry cap gear and passive tank.) It's still got more inertia than I'd like -- slow to accelerate and a lot of bounce off the wrecks if I'm not careful -- but I can zip from wreck to wreck in good time, and make short work of them with the array of salvagers.
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.04 21:23:00 - [27] Edited by: Plutoinum on 04/12/2006 21:24:08 Edited by: Plutoinum on 04/12/2006 21:23:22 Originally by: Shemar Edited by: Shemar on 04/12/2006 15:31:12 Originally by: Plutoinum Must be in some strange context. The whole market needs to be supplied with rigs, not just the personal ships of the mission runner and it needs to be at a price that makes it viable to rig up t1 cruisers or even t1 frigs under some circumstances with t1-rigs. Says who? Maybe faction loot should also be cheap enough to fit it on T1 frigs and go to suicide runs? - There are tech-1 and tech-2 versions of rigs. - The tech-1 BPOs cost only a bit more than a million each or so. - Even the smallest cheapest tech-1 frigate has rig-slots. If that isn't enough for you to understand that you can't compare tech-1 rigs to faction loot then you are either not long enough in EVE or just stupid. edit: And btw I don't do suicide runs, but if I read your posts I start to consider it. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Kylania Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.04 21:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Shemar Once again, the color coding will not* tell you if there is loot in the can or not, it will only tell you if it is criminally flagged or not, which indicates to other players, not the owner if the wreck has already been looted. ... Still nothing on the has/does not have loot so all that really dies for looters is take away the need to gang with yourself and tag the looted cans. This mornings version of the patch notes said that wrecks would be colored for "loot or no loot". There was only a single line about wrecks and it referred to "loot". It's since been changed to read the following, bringing back the "inspected" verbiage. So yeah, it's changed in the last 4 hours. Quote: # Wrecks that have been inspected no longer have the same icon as wrecks that have not been inspected. # An option has been added to the Wreck right click menu to toggle whether the wreck has been inspected or not. So.. even now the patch notes make little sense, does the icon automatically refresh as the first line seems to indicate or do we have to do yet another silly step to manually toggle if it's been inspected? -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| CCG Card Lookup
Khyle Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.04 21:39:00 - [29] Adding to Kylanias questions, if we do not need to manually flag the wreck, does the code only show inspected/not inspected? What should be done is already flagging the wrecks on creation, and every time they are manipulated, to show if there is loot in or not. Guess well see tomorrow.
Kylania Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.04 21:41:00 - [30] Reading through the patch notes thread it looks like the wreck thing has changed several times today and it's still up in the air for both what's happening tomorrow and what's happening eventually! Whirlwind patch notes 4tw! -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| CCG Card Lookup



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