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Alexey Shotoff	Posted - 2006.12.04 17:50:00 - [1] I've been in the game for about 3 weeks, and I've grown big enough (skill wise) to buy a Cruiser, but I have a doubt selecting the one which will fit best for agent missions. From what I got reading the descriptions and the forum, the choise lies between these two cruisers mentioned in the subject (for a caldary). But which one is better? Could the users of both ships give their practical opinion and advice?
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.12.04 17:52:00 - [2] Caracal is the far, FAR better ship. Moas are next to useless for everything (they occaisonally crop up in 0.0 camps or as blaster-vessels, but pretty rarely). Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Borasao	Posted - 2006.12.04 17:53:00 - [3] If you want to go the hybrids route, then you go Moa->Ferox->Rohk. If you want to go the missiles route, you go Caracal->Drake->Raven. That's the first question you want to ask... should you go hybrids or missiles. And that depends on what kind of play style you are wanting.
Hunter C8 Caldari Red Storm Vendetta	Posted - 2006.12.04 17:53:00 - [4] Caracal hands down, you will be doing level 2s I suppose, and a caracal is probably the best ship you could use for level 2s, so have fun with your 5 launchers ripping the spawns apart :) ------- Red Storm Vendetta Recruiting!
ChronoSphere Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2006.12.04 18:13:00 - [5] The Caracal is the far easier ship to get into and use effectively (skillwise) than a Moa. --------- Lieutenant ChronoSphere, SGHQ Security Division Executive Officer, Battlegroup 2 - The Gunslingers "Aut Vincere Aut More"
Aldous Waters	Posted - 2006.12.05 09:58:00 - [6] Hello, I¦m doing lvl 2 missions with the moa right now and it¦s a pretty cool ship for that. The problem is that in most missions they swarm you and the moa has the better shields, it can tank more. Also it has one more drone. Since I¦m a fan of drones I give it some value because the drones are real good helpers for me. Also I don¦t know how you do missions, but I don¦t want to miss a tractor beam for the loot. With a caracal you only would have 4 missiles left. Doing the missions always is the same procedure for me. I warp in, turn on hardener, dump the drones, wait for aggro since I auto lock the attacking ships. Then I shoot them one by one with all I have which is missiles, guns and drones. That kills them pretty fast. After that wave is done I usually have some peace since then the others only attack if I get too close or attack them first. I recharge the shields, reload the weapons and lock one ship which is say 50km away. I then fire my heavies making another group come to me. I never fly to someone besides I need a few km to be able to lock someone or so. While they are on the way to me I fire the missiles, at 35km I send the drones, at 20km I also add the guns. Things are pretty easy. Then I collect the loot, I lock and pull everything within 20km range and loot the wrecks. Since we don¦t have cans anymore I keep the overview with this, all wrecks being away for 1km are looted, everything above are still to get. after that I go after the ones being more far away than 20km. When everything is done, I pack the drones and get outta there. If enemies are at distance the Caracal might be the better choice since you have more firepower and kill everything before it¦s near you so you don¦t need to tank that much, but what if you get swarmed? The Moa also has 4 low slots while the Caracal only has two. I have a simple setup: -- 2x heavies, 3x guns, 1x tractor -- Inv Field, Shield Booster, 2x Shield extender -- 4x cap booster (or recharger, whatever is low slot without penalties) You can active tank very well with that because the cap recharges quickly and you can keep the booster activated a long time. The Caracal only has two low slots and it doesn¦t only have less shields but also less recharge rates. Assuming you take a tractor on a Caracal and only have 4 missles the Moa has better firepower too since you replace two missiles with 3 guns and one drone. When they swarm they come at 2km and below so you can use antimatter too. Moa is definetely my choice, though it has one really big disadvantage: It looks butt ugly So Long Aldous
Pinky Denmark	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:08:00 - [7] Actually the Moa is a bad choice because 4 medium guns can't hit those small frigs swarming you - that is you might not be in danger but it'll take a long time for your 2 launchers to kill them... Caracal with 5 launchers is much faster AND you have 5 medslots over 4 on the Moa. The Moa isn't bad, but it doesn't work as intended - fit small railguns and you will be okay, but you are still paying twice as much for something that is slower than the Caracal...
Unfragmented Distorsion	Posted - 2006.12.05 10:16:00 - [8] I currently use following Caracal setup for lvl 2 missions: 5 x 'malukh' assault launcher (I sometimes fit a single heavy launcher with that - but its generally not worth it) 2 x Large shield extender, 10 MN AB, 2 x rat specific hardeners (always carry 2 of each damage type with you so you can change) 2 x Nano's I just sit tight and rain fire upon enemies as they close in (used to keep distance but then i figured they cant really get through my passive tank), pawns any active tank setup AFAIK, and i still have to run into a mission that would be too hard on my tank (when I do I'll just use the AB for something else besides looting :D ).
Aldous Waters	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:11:00 - [9] Yep, I¦m using small guns for the frigs / additional damage on one target. Somehow the cruisers mostly are at 60km at the beginning being quiet. So I start firing the 2 heavies at them and they start coming towards me, usually I kill them before they start to make notable damage. So I don¦t mind if I kill it at 40km or 20km. Actually 20 is better since I don¦t need to fly that far to collect the loot. As I said I also collect loot in an efficient way and since I insist on a tractor I simply wouldn¦t have 5 missiles on a Caracal. What I forgot in the text is that the Caracal also has a missile bonus so 2 Caracal missiles make more damage than 2 Moa missiles, depending on your skill level. Also price plays a role, that¦s right. A Moa is more expensive and if you play for 3 weeks I assume your bankroll isn¦t the biggest yet. So if I would have just a few millions, I think I would take the Caracal too. If I can afford the Moa well, I would take that one. Skillwise the Caracal is easier too since you only have missiles and can completely focus on them. With the Moa you also have guns... Perhaps you also want to take the ship for other things than just for missions. The Moa has more Grid and offers a bit more flexibility. The Caracal on the other side has cool cargospace. Many people just ask "What¦s the best?". Experiment around a bit and see what suits you. The way I play the missions I like the Moa more. LVL 2 is absolutely easy in it. That also includes the storylines so far.
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:26:00 - [10] The Moa needs much more character skills to be really usefull ... you need all those "support" skills in Gunnery to at least 4, and a few Missiles skills too, before it can dish some serious damage. The Caracal on the other hand can do a good amount of damage with only Heavy Missiles at 3 ... You can mount a really hard passive tank on a Caracal (2~3 Large Shield Extenders, 2 rat specific hardeners) with relatively low skills, more than enough for the level 2 missions ... I've used both, and had a blast with both, but I have to say that the Caracal is more "noob friendly" than the Moa. My advice : get a Caracal first, to make money with, and when you'll be richer, get a Moa, and try both ships ...
slothe Caldari Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:27:00 - [11] caracal no contest. *Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar*
Laboratus Gallente BGG Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.05 11:52:00 - [12] Kestrel-> Caracal->Raven -> Cerberus is the best route in regards to skill points. Most effective with as low SP as possible. You can be a real killer with < 5M SP, when with guns you need around 10M SP. And getting missiles is easy. I suggest you get in a caracal, train for T2 heavy missiles, then T2 shield tank and rock on... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Atreides Horza	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:20:00 - [13] Edited by: Atreides Horza on 05/12/2006 13:23:37 IMO it depends on what to use it for- and personally I wouldn't fly a cruiser in lowsec until I have at least 1.5 million skillpoints. You may be a mission runner, but in lowsec, sometimes the fights come to you and with skills not enabling you to fully utilize you're gonna have to run - and cruisers aren't too good for that. Now. I used to mission run and for that purpose, the caracal can fit a rather decent shield tank with a nice recharge rate and some decent resists. Even still, I like the MOA much much more for its versatility. As a newcomer to PvP fighting, I found myself in the frustrating situation of flying caldari ships where med slots needed for tackling gear would be at the expense of the shield tank, which means you are pretty much finding an uneven fight most of the time. The MOA was my saviour in my transitional period into gallente ships - and I think it's a very VERY underestimated ship. In fact, I won my first PvP fights with armor-tanked MOAs. The surprise of enemy pilots thinking their chewing through a shield tank fairly easy, only to hit a wall of 1600mm armor, EAMNs and damage controls, has caught many an adversary of mine off guard. Now, I'm not saying that MOA is my choice for PvP - I'm just saying that you could go a lot worse... and for PvP, Caracal isn't even a option in my world. Following a series of VERY naty losses, I wouldn't be caught dead in a caracal low sec-side. They're much too fragile for that...
DubanFP Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.05 13:53:00 - [14] Well for starters he wants missions not PVP "at least not yet". Second i don't know what those guys for the Moa are talking about. Sure it may tank better but dead enemies can't fight back, and Caracal with dual BCUs in the low are very effective at killing enemies before they can kill you. Also the quicker you kill the quicker you finish missions, the quicker you finish missions the faster the money will roll in. Add the fact that missiles are effective at just about any range "no need to waste time getting to optimal or missing the frigates at close range", and caracal comes out as a far superior choice. Take it from me when it comes to ships and NPC hunting. I have 2 ravens "one for PVE one for fleet combat" and a 250mil wallet. Against NPCs missile ships are better. __________________________ Why babelfish is bad mmm k "which the night do not expect that it calls the primary education before becoming deformed inside"
Bronson Hughes	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:12:00 - [15] Also keep in mind that a Caracal with Heavy Launchers will pretty much always out-range a Moa. For PvE, that can make a huge difference. With decent skills and a sensor booster, you can easily hit stuff out to 80km or so. Try doing that in a Moa without a ton more skill points.
Atreides Horza	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Bronson Hughes Also keep in mind that a Caracal with Heavy Launchers will pretty much always out-range a Moa. For PvE, that can make a huge difference. With decent skills and a sensor booster, you can easily hit stuff out to 80km or so. Try doing that in a Moa without a ton more skill points. It's not all about range. You choose your battles and you set them up to ensure that you are in the game... Even still, I've charged Caracals before and none of them was anywhere close to breaking my tank before they wimped out and warped away.
goodby4u	Posted - 2006.12.06 17:06:00 - [17] Moas are for sniping,the caracal is a better mission runner due to the easy button(missiles)

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