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Alfius Togra
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Posted - 2003.11.18 09:34:00 -
[1]
ok take your average lvl BS kitted out for mining, you got 7 maybe 8 miner 2s and 8 at least 8 harvys : total cost including modules and drones well over 100mil
now. consider the humble thorax, 5 miner 2s and the huge drone bay can still 10 harvs and only be half full
total cost : less than 8 mil (perhaps more cos harvs cost a bomb atm)
the thorax can mine more than 3/4 the amount of the BS but cost less than 10% ...... the only thing a BS is for in mining is to guard a mine of cruisers in low sc space.
My personal mining loadout is my thorax with 3 miner2s and 2 miner1s (cos if i have 5 miner2 i need cpu boosters so i cant fit any cargo expanders meaning my hold fills up too fast) and 8 harvs
in my medium slots i have a servay scanner and a small shield booster in case of rats and a cargo scanner , low slots: 2 cpu booster and 3 basic cargo expanders
now tell me why i should waste my time ming in bs when i could be out blatting 50k rats in it
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Amin
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Posted - 2003.11.18 09:37:00 -
[2]
I refuse to fly Gallante ships for roleplay purposes, so i now have to get a thorax if u want to mine faster?
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator
Caldari State Citizen
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.11.18 09:38:00 -
[3]
... What if you already own a battleship for other reasons than mining? Why not use it instead of buying a thorax to mine with?
(I don't mine - so keep the comments away please  )
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Earthan
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Posted - 2003.11.18 09:40:00 -
[4]
Becuase in Thorax with 9 harvesters and 7 miner 2 you cant mine good ores alone in 0.0
And i can with a megathron 
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2003.11.18 09:48:00 -
[5]
This i s also why Megathron is the best mining ship in game( yes i know it sucks to make a miner out of a bs but its the reality).
Sure you can fit 8 miner 2 to apoc but how will you defend in 0.0 with your drone bay almost full after having 9 harvesters in it?
In megathron you can fit 7 miner 2 , mine with 9-10 harvesters, and still have enough drone bay for a proper drone defence against NPC
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Demangel
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Posted - 2003.11.18 09:56:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Demangel on 18/11/2003 09:58:01
Personaly, The way I see it, CCP needs to give EVERY other ship more usefulness.
The mining ships should be better at mining than ANY combat ship period.
The way it is now, mining relies on your turret slots and drone bay size. If you have a lot of either, it doesn't matter how much of a cargo hold you have you WILL make more money mining than the guy next to you.
For those who mine with thoraxes and megathrons in Empire space saying they need cPU or something... just do what I do.
Go buy some industrial class ship (any will do, but some will do better ;))
Once you have this, Go mine in less populated space (using your thorax with nothing but miner II's for example, not the indy), leave nonsecure cans, and pick them up with your industrial.
I have done this for hours at a time without seeing a single soul, let alone a can thief. Making a million ISK an hour is quite possible in empire space providing you have a thorax or megathron :)
Hell I don't even touch scordite (fools gold), or omber (noobs gold), or pyroxors (morons gold gold) :) though thats just my personal preference.
Galaxion > If you drove a car shaped like a thorax women would call you
Demangel > Dude... I would call..
Demangel > wait that sounded g@y I bet.
Galaxion > Just a bit.
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Lucre
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Posted - 2003.11.18 09:58:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
... What if you already own a battleship for other reasons than mining? Why not use it instead of buying a thorax to mine with?
What he said. Sure I use my Armageddon for mining (and will no doubt do the same with my Apoc when I get it, nerfs permitting!) - it's very good at it - but I also plan to use them in time for combat. So since I've got it anyway, whyever should I not use it?
Having mined extensively in a Thorax I can also tell you that mining in a BS is a *far* more relaxing experience in that one only has to shuttle ore to the container every 2.5 minutes rather than every 30-45 seconds!
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.11.18 09:59:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 18/11/2003 10:01:05
Quote:
now tell me why i should waste my time ming in bs when i could be out blatting 50k rats in it
If you own a battleship and you are going to mine, why not? Your argument makes absolutely no sense. Mining in a Thorax is a good use of your time, but using a battleship for 25% more yield, higher shield and armor strengths for protection, more med slots for scanners and boosters, etc. is a "waste of time?" Bah. Total rubbish. If you own a BS and you're mining in a Thorax, you're the one wasting time. And lots of it.
How about people do whatever the **** they want with their ships and we quit telling them how to play the game.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Earthan
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Posted - 2003.11.18 10:01:00 -
[9]
The best i achieved in Thorax for mining in 0.0 alone was 5 miner 2 and defence with 8 hvy drones , it worked ok most of time , but was abit risky , once NPC kept on respawning and got webified and warpscrambled me , got to around 20 % of armor
Still its far worse then with a bs.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2003.11.18 10:03:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Quote:
... What if you already own a battleship for other reasons than mining? Why not use it instead of buying a thorax to mine with?
What he said. Sure I use my Armageddon for mining (and will no doubt do the same with my Apoc when I get it, nerfs permitting!) - it's very good at it - but I also plan to use them in time for combat. So since I've got it anyway, whyever should I not use it?
Having mined extensively in a Thorax I can also tell you that mining in a BS is a *far* more relaxing experience in that one only has to shuttle ore to the container every 2.5 minutes rather than every 30-45 seconds!
Lol i see an experienced miner here , it was pure hell in Thorax, after fitting 5 miner 2 i had to activate them in proper order so they dont yield at same time , cuase the cargo hold would fet overfilled instantly.And then its was like you said 30-45 sec or less
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Locuila
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Posted - 2003.11.18 17:04:00 -
[11]
I kinda like mining in my Thorax with 5 miner2's and 9 harvies.
Yeah i gotta stagger their timing, but that just means that I have to pay attention to what i'm doing, and not get caught off guard when a punk or some NPC rats warp in.
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I love being podded. - Hampstah |
Alfius Togra
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Posted - 2003.11.18 19:46:00 -
[12]
oviouslyh a bs has and edge over a thor cos of its hi slots but my point is for the price of 1 bs i can get 10 thors mining for my corp but if ur a loner looking for the best of the best the ya go 4 the bs
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csebal
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Posted - 2003.11.18 20:17:00 -
[13]
Having an armageddon with 7 miner2s, 10 harvesters and maximized skills, i have the same problem like the one you described for the thorax. Having to drag n drop every 30 secs is like hell.
Relaxing? ;) Not at all.
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This post is nothing more than my personal opinion. It does not represent the official standpoint of Fountain Alliance, or the HUN Corporation in any way.
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Nootami
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Posted - 2003.11.18 20:46:00 -
[14]
But you cant buy people to fly them now can you?
Originally by: Cortex Reaver
[22:39:59] [Oi]Nootami1 joined channel
[22:40:02] [Oi]Nootami1 quit
Oh,look! Someone joined for a whopping .3 seconds!
-CR
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Crewman 6
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Posted - 2003.11.18 20:59:00 -
[15]
And what some people don't understand is that with an Armageddon, you can equip 2 miner 2's and 10 harvesters, mine in 0.0 space for bistot and make descent cash while defending yourself .
Try doing that in a Thorax or any cruiser and the npc's will eat you alive if you aren't careful.
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I'm not prejudiced... I hate everyone.
Albert Camus once observed, "Integrity has no need of rules." The converse is also true: The degree of integrity is inversely proportional to the number and complexities of rules and bureaucracy. |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.18 21:34:00 -
[16]
It's not about whether or not you mine in a battleship, though I'd argue the wisdom of buying one specifically to mine in.
What it is about is the higher mining capacity of a battleship in secure space, mining the least valuable of ores allows it to earn more Isk per minute/hour/day than the same ship mining the most valuable of ores outside of secure space.
And before someone says "Just make Bistot spawn more" or "Put Spodumain back in", both suggestions would cause the minerals refined from those ores to drop in price due to greater availibility. Dragging the profitability of mining the more valuable ores down with it. While the profitability of mining the least valuable of ores remain the same.
Because they're still in abundance and would not be affected.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Lord Slappy
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Posted - 2003.11.18 22:08:00 -
[17]
Quote:
It's not about whether or not you mine in a battleship, though I'd argue the wisdom of buying one specifically to mine in.
What it is about is the higher mining capacity of a battleship in secure space, mining the least valuable of ores allows it to earn more Isk per minute/hour/day than the same ship mining the most valuable of ores outside of secure space.
And before someone says "Just make Bistot spawn more" or "Put Spodumain back in", both suggestions would cause the minerals refined from those ores to drop in price due to greater availibility. Dragging the profitability of mining the more valuable ores down with it. While the profitability of mining the least valuable of ores remain the same.
Because they're still in abundance and would not be affected.
I ran test on this, and it is not so. You mine ore based on the attributes of the ore, and the mass, you make the same isk per hour no matter what the ore is. The only thing that changes is the QUANTITY of the ore.
So this despells that bit of MISINFORMATION.
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Klatoo
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Posted - 2003.11.18 22:24:00 -
[18]
Why the hell should anybody care what somebody else is using to mine with?
I could care less if someone is mining with a battleship or a frigate.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.18 22:39:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 18/11/2003 22:42:08
Quote:
Quote:
It's not about whether or not you mine in a battleship, though I'd argue the wisdom of buying one specifically to mine in.
What it is about is the higher mining capacity of a battleship in secure space, mining the least valuable of ores allows it to earn more Isk per minute/hour/day than the same ship mining the most valuable of ores outside of secure space.
And before someone says "Just make Bistot spawn more" or "Put Spodumain back in", both suggestions would cause the minerals refined from those ores to drop in price due to greater availibility. Dragging the profitability of mining the more valuable ores down with it. While the profitability of mining the least valuable of ores remain the same.
Because they're still in abundance and would not be affected.
I ran test on this, and it is not so. You mine ore based on the attributes of the ore, and the mass, you make the same isk per hour no matter what the ore is. The only thing that changes is the QUANTITY of the ore.
So this despells that bit of MISINFORMATION.
Mine Scordite for an hour and Bistot for an hour. Then tell me how much isk you have in your wallet at the end of an hour.
Here, let me help you:
Mining Scordite at the end of an hour: However much isk you sold it for.
Mining Bistot at the end of an hour: 0, because you'll be lucky to be even 1/4th of the way back with your 1st haul just to refine it.
Nevermind the haul ahead to take the minerals from the refine someplace to sell it.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Ariell Lucinwind
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Posted - 2003.11.18 22:42:00 -
[20]
What I think is messed up is the players who mine in a battleship and think ISK = levels. For example;
Everquest = Has levels
Jumpgate = Has levels
Earth n Beyawnd = Levels
EVE = ISK
EVE to some pilots means Money (ISK) = Levels
But the unfortunate thing is ISK is unlimited, what do you do with billions of ISK as there is no end to obtaining ISK.
This in turns saturates the market a little.
But this is just my little opinion.
<<hugs>>
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Came back cause I love you guys :P |
Lord Slappy
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Posted - 2003.11.19 00:38:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Edited by: Jash Illian on 18/11/2003 22:42:08
Quote:
Quote:
It's not about whether or not you mine in a battleship, though I'd argue the wisdom of buying one specifically to mine in.
What it is about is the higher mining capacity of a battleship in secure space, mining the least valuable of ores allows it to earn more Isk per minute/hour/day than the same ship mining the most valuable of ores outside of secure space.
And before someone says "Just make Bistot spawn more" or "Put Spodumain back in", both suggestions would cause the minerals refined from those ores to drop in price due to greater availibility. Dragging the profitability of mining the more valuable ores down with it. While the profitability of mining the least valuable of ores remain the same.
Because they're still in abundance and would not be affected.
I ran test on this, and it is not so. You mine ore based on the attributes of the ore, and the mass, you make the same isk per hour no matter what the ore is. The only thing that changes is the QUANTITY of the ore.
So this despells that bit of MISINFORMATION.
Mine Scordite for an hour and Bistot for an hour. Then tell me how much isk you have in your wallet at the end of an hour.
Here, let me help you:
Mining Scordite at the end of an hour: However much isk you sold it for.
Mining Bistot at the end of an hour: 0, because you'll be lucky to be even 1/4th of the way back with your 1st haul just to refine it.
Nevermind the haul ahead to take the minerals from the refine someplace to sell it.
Hauling is not the issue, it is MINING...
With a hauler or many haulers, you make the same is per hour as a miner no matter what the ore is, by Jash's thought train, we should be nerfing the haulers....
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.11.19 01:22:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Hauling is not the issue, it is MINING...
That's like saying "weapons are not the issue, it is COMBAT..."
Hauling is an integral part of mining and you can't just cut it from the equation. Well, you can but the results would be pointless.
Part of the reason mining in 0.0 space is ridiculous right now is because apart from a few places in regional-alliance space, most places that haven't been mined out are too far afield to make the time investment worthwhile.
Mining for profit, be that in minerals or ISK, comes down to ISK or minerals/hour.
As the game stands right now you would probably be able to generate more Megacyte and Zydrine mining Scordite and Pyroxeres, selling the resulting minerals and purchasing the Megacyte and Zydrine.
Of course nobody wants to add content to make 0.0 mining less of a tedious chore, they just want to nerf everything else so it looks better in comparison.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
cball
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Posted - 2003.11.19 02:48:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Quote:
Hauling is not the issue, it is MINING...
That's like saying "weapons are not the issue, it is COMBAT..."
Hauling is an integral part of mining and you can't just cut it from the equation. Well, you can but the results would be pointless.
Part of the reason mining in 0.0 space is ridiculous right now is because apart from a few places in regional-alliance space, most places that haven't been mined out are too far afield to make the time investment worthwhile.
Mining for profit, be that in minerals or ISK, comes down to ISK or minerals/hour.
As the game stands right now you would probably be able to generate more Megacyte and Zydrine mining Scordite and Pyroxeres, selling the resulting minerals and purchasing the Megacyte and Zydrine.
Of course nobody wants to add content to make 0.0 mining less of a tedious chore, they just want to nerf everything else so it looks better in comparison.
well said
nice to see that some are looking at the whole game, not focusing on 1 aspect
...fear the evil monkey in your hanger...
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Ariell Lucinwind
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Posted - 2003.11.19 03:06:00 -
[24]
Quote:
That's like saying "weapons are not the issue, it is COMBAT..."
Thats the best line I have heard all day.
I will now be happily smiling at my desk with that one
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Came back cause I love you guys :P |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2003.11.19 03:28:00 -
[25]
There is one thing you forget, in 0.0 space mining solo in a Thorax you have to choose to ither go with atleast 3 weapon turrets or play the ninjamining game.
If you play the ninjamining you cant use drones.
That leaves you with 3 guns, 2 miner II's and 10 drones or 5 miner II's
If in a BS you only need 1, maby 2 guns as the ship is more powerfull and you can mount L guns, that leaves up to 6 slots for mining lasers, together with them 10 drones you will mine alot faster with the BS.
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hellwarrior
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Posted - 2003.11.19 03:44:00 -
[26]
i only mine for corp bs's, and when i do i yield 1.5-2.5m/hr alone not mining anything better than hedbergite :O
I prefer hunting, and btw.... armageddon easily matches megathron for mining :P
<3 my arma
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Chatelaine
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Posted - 2003.11.19 05:23:00 -
[27]
All this talk about mining with battleships in secure space for profit is very easy to fix. Not by nerfing the battleships in anyway, how would that make any sense?
The solution is fractional prices (SoonÖ)!
Tritanium/pyerite prices are wrong atm.
They can't sell for less that 1 isk/unit and that's the problem. If they would have the "real" market price it wouldn't be profitable to mine veldspar and scordite the way it is now. The prices on every other mineral obtainable in secure space has fallen except for tritanium, it still has it's initial 1 isk/unit. It's real value is maybe 0.1 isk/unit or less.
Let the market rules work, no nerfing needed.
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Hido
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Posted - 2003.11.19 09:53:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Hido on 19/11/2003 09:53:57
Quote:
All this talk about mining with battleships in secure space for profit is very easy to fix. Not by nerfing the battleships in anyway, how would that make any sense?
The solution is fractional prices (SoonÖ)!
Tritanium/pyerite prices are wrong atm.
They can't sell for less that 1 isk/unit and that's the problem. If they would have the "real" market price it wouldn't be profitable to mine veldspar and scordite the way it is now. The prices on every other mineral obtainable in secure space has fallen except for tritanium, it still has it's initial 1 isk/unit. It's real value is maybe 0.1 isk/unit or less.
Let the market rules work, no nerfing needed.
I toatlly have to agree with this statement. Nerfing anything is just going to create more problems such as balance issues so rather let the market start working in fractions.
Chatelaine that is the most intelligent statement I have heard yet 
Living the life
Havin it large
Welcome to the land of the rising sun |
Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2003.11.19 11:20:00 -
[29]
Well um that might be intelligent .. except nothing is gonna happen to NPC buy orders. They'll buy pyerite for 4 and trit for 1 .. Just like they've always done.. Fractional prices will only affect PC buy orders. |
Samsson
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Posted - 2003.11.19 11:36:00 -
[30]
I hate mining in a thorax the hold is so small even with good expander you have to constatly swap from hold to can and I payed for my battleship who are you to tell me what I can and cant do with it. If they nerf battleship mining then nerf it across the board period then you cant favor large corps over new small corps just starting out who have no chance of mining in 0.0 and surviving long enough to make there daily bread.
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