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qrac
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:20:00 -
[1]
can we get some explanations to the graphic settings we now can change?
like what's the difference between D3DFMT_D24S8 and D3DFMT_D24X8?
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.11.18 11:40:00 -
[2]
Those represent supported depth buffer types on your card
D3DFMT_D24S8 = 32-bit z-buffer bit depth using 24 bits for the depth channel and 8 bits for the stencil channel.
D3DFMT_D24X8 = 32-bit z-buffer bit depth using 24 bits for the depth channel.
Which will usually lead into the question of...
What Is a Stencil Buffer?
The stencil buffer enables or disables drawing to the rendering target surface on a pixel-by-pixel basis. At its most fundamental level, it enables applications to mask sections of the rendered image so that they are not displayed. Applications often use stencil buffers for special effects such as dissolves, decaling, and outlining.
(MS)
Does Eve use the stencil buffer? dunno. I don't think it requires it for anything.
As to the overall use of that setting, people can use it to increase the depth buffer to whatever is supported on their card, which will in some cases improve the texture flickering that you may see ingame.
The only setting better than the ones you posted would probably be 'D3DFMT_D32', which would give you an extra 8 bits of depth buffer over a D24 format.
(D3DFMT stands for "D3D Format" I think, and is used for any standard formats defined in the DirectX specifications)
Redundancy |
Kyroki Tirpellan
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Posted - 2003.11.18 17:51:00 -
[3]
And in normal english that meant...? 
Peace through love, understanding and superior firepower.
Real men structure tank! |
qrac
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Posted - 2003.11.18 18:00:00 -
[4]
in normal english that means the higher the number the better :)
thanks for the info.
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.11.18 18:35:00 -
[5]
yeah. find the D-- number, the higher --, the better.
Redundancy |
Madcow
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Posted - 2003.11.19 17:42:00 -
[6]
I like this graphic function tried it out on test server has some bugs like it doesnt get safed corectly but it fixed my texture flickering I had. with that I mean it like the textures go through eachother when you move looks very ugly wish I could use it already on the live version or is there a command for in the prefs.ini to activate it?
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I am just a crazy cow |
Mark A
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Posted - 2003.11.19 20:04:00 -
[7]
Neither the GeForce nor Radeon series support D3DFMT_D32 though - 24-bit is the max for the z-buffer, with or without the other 8 bits being used as stencil. This should be plenty however - 16-bit only gives 65536 depth values which is marginal, but 24-bit gives 16.7M so its a big difference. 32-bit would give 4 billion but that's just overkill.
EVE is pretty bad for z-fighting for some reason (ie an occluded surface poking through the one in front when it shouldn't, and making the textures flicker). The cause is certainly lack of z-buffer precision, but there can be a few reasons for this.
On NVidia hardware the depth buffer must match the back buffer, ie if you run in a 16-bit mode (or windowed on a 16-bit desktop) you'll only get 16-bit z-buffer (and no stencil) nomatter what.
Beyond that it's down to the code. One common mistake is to to put the near clip plane too close to the camera - because of the way the math works, if you do this it bunches up most of the z values in tiny increments in front of your nose, leaving less precision over the rest of the scene. There's no reason this should be the case in EVE, given the camera is rarely near the geometry and even a setting of 1 metre is fine. Perhaps the graphics guy should double-check though...
Note the distance to the far clip does need to be very high (or even at infinity) for EVE, but this doesn't actually affect the z-precision hardly at all, again because of the non-linear way the z values are distributed.
The other possible problem is they're using w-buffering instead of z-buffering, as this distributes the z values linearly, so the high draw distance would indeed cause precision problems. Again, no reason why w-buffering would be enabled, but worth checking also.
Of course if the code is all ok, then you can always change the models so they don't have surfaces so close together - again it's a bit odd to have a front-facing surface right behind another one so you probably can't see it anyway, except when it goes wrong.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.19 20:19:00 -
[8]
"Neither the GeForce nor Radeon series support D3DFMT_D32 though - 24-bit is the max for the z-buffer, with or without the other 8 bits being used as stencil."
... I can see the switch called "Support 32-bit Z-buffer depth" in the advanced directX options for my Radeon card... (been there for last few versions of the drivers)
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Mark A
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Posted - 2003.11.20 21:45:00 -
[9]
 Quote:
... I can see the switch called "Support 32-bit Z-buffer depth" in the advanced directX options for my Radeon card... (been there for last few versions of the drivers)
Ok, must be new - no reason why it shouldn't be supported, given there are 32-bits available in VRAM and modern chipsets are highly configurable. Perhaps it's avoided by default as 24-bits is plenty, and if a poorly tested app selects 32-bit just because it's the highest number, it might get caught out when the stencil buffer isn't there.
Try it I guess - stencil is most commonly used for shadows which EVE doesn't have atm.
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2003.12.15 07:09:00 -
[10]
It's broken again, I'm seeing those problems with textures.
We only have 2 options atm, 16bit and 32bit color modes.
Before, I was able to fix the texture issue by choosing the highes stencil depth.
Please bring those options back.
Using a GeForce 4 Ti4200 card.
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2003.12.15 07:13:00 -
[11]
Yeh the z-fighting is back on my PC too and I'd previously been able to fix it.
Please bring back the extra settings, Eve looked AWESOME with the z-fighting fixed.
win xp
GF4 ti4600
amd xp 1600
dx 9.0b
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Nifleim
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Posted - 2003.12.15 07:56:00 -
[12]
yes please bring those options back
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The Beast
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Posted - 2003.12.15 10:09:00 -
[13]
Thought:
The sencil will most probably be used in the Widescreen and Interlaced modes.
I would expect both of these to be stencils (the balck area of the widescreen and the lines of interlacing) there is no point in rendering behind the blacked out areas or behind the interlacing (which i imagin is more of a visual effect then proper interlacing, of course i could be wonrg  )
And i would definetley agree that the near clip plane is far too short. causing the layers textures and effect objects (such as the flames /afterburner type thing from some stations) to clip one another at closer distance to the object.
Dont we all love a bit of techy talk every now and again.. i wish someone on day would post some info on how the game engine is rendering the objects.. it would be most interesting to actually KNOW how some of these things are being done in the professional world and not just the bedroom programers
/Geek mode off
"If God Posted His Second Coming Here I Would Ban His Ass For Being Off Topic ! :)" |
Noggy
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Posted - 2003.12.15 10:15:00 -
[14]
I have a small problem with this. Ever since this was implemented on Kaos I cannot get my screen out of windowed mode without a CTD. oes anyone else experience this? I tried Alt Enter and also doing it in the graphics menu but everytime I change this setting I am staring at my windows desktop. I have found I can use the Alt Enter option in space but it resets back to windowed mode when restarting the game. I have a Geoforce MX440 for you info and I have logged and reported this.
Regards
Noggy
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2003.12.15 21:22:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Scalor Valentis on 15/12/2003 21:25:39
All I can say is that this setting
worked wonders for my GeForce 4 Ti4200 card:
'D3DFMT_D32'
Now the 32bit color mode does nothing. It's just like it was before, flickering textures everywhere. Gates, Stations, rocks... you name it.
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Zyrla Bladestorm
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Posted - 2003.12.15 22:02:00 -
[16]
I had a look through nvidia's specs .. the TNT actually supported 32 bit stencil buffer (and the TNT2 presumably) but the feature was then dropped for the geforce line, probably because as pointed out noone was using it.
.
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Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Nifleim
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Posted - 2003.12.16 06:26:00 -
[17]
this latest 1351 gives us
1 more option
still same ol flickering though
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2003.12.16 08:40:00 -
[18]
I'm seeing some improvement with build 1351.
The 1st option: 24bit color does help with
flickering.
But the Windowed mode is still missing all the lower resolution as options!!!
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Nifleim
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Posted - 2003.12.16 16:32:00 -
[19]
1352 and it still doesn't fix it
heh figures
well looks like it's public suicide for me
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Scalor Valentis
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Posted - 2003.12.16 22:21:00 -
[20]
1352 now lists all resolutions as it should.
But the flickering is still there.
We need that extreme 32bit mode.
It fixed it the last time.
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