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Public Journal and Witness of Shaddam Daphiti

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Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.08.05 03:10:42 - [1] - Quote Today I became Capsuleeer. I had but one request of the medic who preformed the operation.. that my soon to be former body not be administered any pain drugs. I wanted to remember, to honor those not blessed as I was soon to be.. to learn God's lesson. And learn it I did, I could feel my brain burning within my skull.. such pain.. such truth! It is through pain that we learn of course, that God corrects up and guides us. Not pain we inflict on others, or that others inflict on us.. though that too can be a lesson, but pain brought to us by God and ourselves when we must humble our own Flesh. Remember the pain, embrace it, endure it and grow as is His will! "For by his stripes he saw the truth of Gods wisdom, that all are fallen... and that only by suffering can one reclaim themselves"
Aria Jenneth Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 1270	Posted - 2015.08.05 03:26:40 - [2] - Quote Um. Pilot? The brain itself doesn't have any pain sensors. You can't actually feel what happens to it. Whatever you felt, respectfully, it probably wasn't that. Congratulations on your graduation, though. Are you any relation to Maria Daphiti and Lunarisse Aspenstar, by any chance?
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.08.05 03:54:08 - [3] - Quote I am not related to either of those persons, no. I confess that neuroscience is not my area so I concede that you may be right about my understanding of the pain I felt being in error. It was no illusion however, of that I am certain. I thank you for your welcome.
Elmund Egivand Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation 560	Posted - 2015.08.05 05:41:51 - [4] - Quote Aria Jenneth wrote: Um. Pilot? The brain itself doesn't have any pain sensors. You can't actually feel what happens to it. Whatever you felt, respectfully, it probably wasn't that. Congratulations on your graduation, though. Are you any relation to Maria Daphiti and Lunarisse Aspenstar, by any chance? Definitely the trick of the mind. We tend to see or feel what we believe we should see or feel. A human foible, if you will. Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.08.05 17:54:12 - [5] - Quote There is a log in Amarr's eye... Woe to the hypocrites of Amarr.. repent and accept your chastisement. I have this very day seen the sin of our own Home... and wept for the suffering that must be endured to correct it. The Sins of Amarr are many, but most visibly: In-hospitality, Pride, Vanity, Games of chance, Abuse of the weak, and others to numerous to name. Amarr is meant to be the light of God's wisdom... not a pit of depravity. When the city on the hill produced nothing but filth, those below suffer needlessly. Perhaps the Drifters are our chastisement.. perhaps not.. but weep, faithful, for the suffering Amarr must endure if it is to be worthy of it's God given Name!
Jaret Victorian Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 235	Posted - 2015.08.05 17:56:17 - [6] - Quote Elmund Egivand wrote: Definitely the trick of the mind. We tend to see or feel what we believe we should see or feel. A human foible, if you will. I see what you did there and I like it. Really, great one. Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Follow us on GalNet! When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 816	Posted - 2015.08.05 18:13:26 - [7] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Amarr is meant to be the light of God's wisdom... not a pit of depravity. Depravity's got some awesome things going for it. Debauchery, for example!
Sinjin Mokk Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration 427	Posted - 2015.08.05 18:43:40 - [8] - Quote Brother Shaddam, Welcome. Realize, that you are embarking on a journey. Realize too, that all your training, all your education and all your expectations are about to be tossed right out the airlock. The Axioms of the Capsuleer: Stay alert. Trust no one. Keep your laser handy. You are in mortal danger the second you undock, even in HiSec. If it sounds like a scam it probably is a scam. If it doesn't sound like a scam, it most certainly is one. Never undock in something you can't afford to lose. No one here is exactly who or what they appear to be. Live long, fly safe, fight well, die often. Keep the Faith. Do not feed the Drifters. This list is woefully incomplete and I probably lied at least once. Here's a spaceship and a copy of the Pax Amarria. Go figure the rest out for yourself. Dark Amarr: Rumors!
Kontrahage Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance 121	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:02:11 - [9] - Quote Congratulations to your gift. Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Perhaps the Drifters are our chastisement.. perhaps not.. I understand the last weeks before the transformation are fairly stressful and there are many things on the mind other than the news so you may not have heard: Her Holyness declared the Drifters are not the Lord's work hence they cannot be a divine chastisement.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 819	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:08:50 - [10] - Quote Kontrahage wrote: Congratulations to your gift. Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Perhaps the Drifters are our chastisement.. perhaps not.. I understand the last weeks before the transformation are fairly stressful and there are many things on the mind other than the news so you may not have heard: Her Holyness declared the Drifters are not the Lord's work hence they cannot be a divine chastisement. Unless she's wrong, which, being fallible, she could be...
Erica Dusette Isogen 5 49528	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:15:48 - [11] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: There is a log in Amarr's eye... Woe to the hypocrites of Amarr.. repent and accept your chastisement. I have this very day seen the sin of our own Home... and wept for the suffering that must be endured to correct it. The Sins of Amarr are many, but most visibly: In-hospitality, Pride, Vanity, Games of chance, Abuse of the weak, and others to numerous to name. Amarr is meant to be the light of God's wisdom... not a pit of depravity. When the city on the hill produced nothing but filth, those below suffer needlessly. Perhaps the Drifters are our chastisement.. perhaps not.. but weep, faithful, for the suffering Amarr must endure if it is to be worthy of it's God given Name! Amarr is one of the classiest systems in Empire, sir. I've always found the local personalities very friendly in comparison to other similar systems, always hospitable (though perhaps that's just toward my family and I) with fantastic food, coffee and a market that's very competitive. Amarr locals certainly know style and they have every reason to be proud in my opinion. In anycase, congratulations on your graduation to capsuleer, sir. Fly fun out there. Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again! Part-Time Wormhole Pirate pâä Full-Time Supermodel Gû+ -+eep+¦ng -+y pro-++¦-òe -ò+¦nce 17\|12\|116 GÖÑ Gû+ wor-+-+ole d+¦ary + c-+arac-éer -¦+¦o-ò
Kontrahage Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance 122	Posted - 2015.08.05 19:22:44 - [12] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Kontrahage wrote: Congratulations to your gift. Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Perhaps the Drifters are our chastisement.. perhaps not.. I understand the last weeks before the transformation are fairly stressful and there are many things on the mind other than the news so you may not have heard: Her Holyness declared the Drifters are not the Lord's work hence they cannot be a divine chastisement. Unless she's wrong, which, being fallible, she could be... You cannot pick parts of faith you like while discarding others. If the amarr faith is true then the empress speaks with the voice of GOD and the Drifters are not HIS work. If it is not then GOD does not exist and they are also not HIS work. An addition to the hospitability thing: I have always felt welcome in the empire and have never been offended by the native populace. More than I can say of my time in the federation, the republic or even my "home" state.
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2015.08.05 20:22:10 - [13] - Quote Kontrahage wrote: Congratulations to your gift. Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Perhaps the Drifters are our chastisement.. perhaps not.. I understand the last weeks before the transformation are fairly stressful and there are many things on the mind other than the news so you may not have heard: Her Holyness declared the Drifters are not the Lord's work hence they cannot be a divine chastisement. Then something worse is coming...
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 819	Posted - 2015.08.05 20:23:47 - [14] - Quote Kontrahage wrote: You cannot pick parts of faith you like while discarding others. If the amarr faith is true then the empress speaks with the voice of GOD and the Drifters are not HIS work. If it is not then GOD does not exist and they are also not HIS work. Except that if the Amarr faith is true then the Empress is human, and thus, fallible. Only God is infallible. Which means she can get it wrong.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 819	Posted - 2015.08.05 20:24:45 - [15] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Then something worse is coming... It is. It's GalNet holo programming. Have you seen Caldari Vice Nights[/i]? Ugh.
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2015.08.07 15:52:18 - [16] - Quote A meditation for today: If Suffering is God's and God's alone to met, for the chastisement of sin and reclamation of hearts... How then is violence, even violence in self defense justified? In a perfect universe, it is not. We do not however live in a perfect universe, we live in a fallen universe. Our responses can only be expected to be as imperfect as ourselves. Therefore, Violence happens. We can however, choose to mediate violence with mercy, applying only force as needed and avoiding causing suffering where it is not needed... of course in the chastisement of our own flesh.. which we must master.. we must also apply mercy... Cutting off the hand that sins leaves one with no hand.. striking it with the rod instructs the flesh. Amen.
Jili Tonari Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 120	Posted - 2015.08.07 16:34:09 - [17] - Quote Hey nugget! Want suffering? The TLF is offering a special discount on suffering for Amarr loyalists. Swing on by and we'll get you all hooked up. And I'm not taking some garden-variety domestic suffering, we got some top shelf imported suffering for ya! Drop me a mil and I'll send you the info! GÇ£Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves.GÇ¥
Utari Onzo Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 572	Posted - 2015.08.07 16:38:48 - [18] - Quote Jili Tonari wrote: Hey nugget! Want suffering? The TLF is offering a special discount on suffering for Amarr loyalists. Swing on by and we'll get you all hooked up. And I'm not taking some garden-variety domestic suffering, we got some top shelf imported suffering for ya! Drop me a mil and I'll send you the info! I can't hear you over the sound of systems being reclaimed. "Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2015.08.07 17:07:22 - [19] - Quote Jili Tonari wrote: Hey nugget! Want suffering? The TLF is offering a special discount on suffering for Amarr loyalists. Swing on by and we'll get you all hooked up. And I'm not taking some garden-variety domestic suffering, we got some top shelf imported suffering for ya! Drop me a mil and I'll send you the info! You speak with the anger of a child who hates their parents rod refusing to see your own sins. I will not say that anger is unjustified, as many apply that rod too freely and with too much enjoyment of it. Perhaps God will provide you guidance in the form of a Holder who will help you to stand in the midst of your own suffering. Amen.
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2015.08.10 01:36:37 - [20] - Quote I have seen often that pagans and apostates will use the words : "I do not believe in your God." As if belief somehow makes a shred of difference? It is the revealed will of God that all should be reclaimed unto Him. So what does your belief matter, little speck? The leaf does not need to believe in the wind, nor the sea creature the current of the oceans... Both are directed none the less, both suffer, both are taught... such is the way with all humanity, even capsuleers. Amen.
Deitra Vess Scope Works 557	Posted - 2015.08.10 02:10:33 - [21] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: I have seen often that pagans and apostates will use the words : "I do not believe in your God." As if belief somehow makes a shred of difference? It means a lot when countless people saying so have guns trained on you as you attempt to enforce the will of what they don't place their faith. Speak with your scriptures they'll still just speak with their guns. Is that not enough of a difference? They can see the effects of their guns can you really see the physical effects of your words?
Soren Tyrhanos PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 97	Posted - 2015.08.10 02:59:48 - [22] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Shaddam Daphiti wrote: I have seen often that pagans and apostates will use the words : "I do not believe in your God." As if belief somehow makes a shred of difference? It means a lot when countless people saying so have guns trained on you as you attempt to enforce the will of what they don't place their faith. Speak with your scriptures they'll still just speak with their guns. Is that not enough of a difference? They can see the effects of their guns can you really see the physical effects of your words? It would depend what actions are inspired in people by those words. Simple words can be as devastating and as useful as the practical application of the fire arm. Sometimes more useful than others.
Scherezad Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 2337	Posted - 2015.08.10 03:18:52 - [23] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: It is the revealed will of God that all should be reclaimed unto Him. So what does your belief matter, little speck? The leaf does not need to believe in the wind, nor the sea creature the current of the oceans... Both are directed none the less, both suffer, both are taught... such is the way with all humanity, even capsuleers. Amen. It's a lovely thought, really, but we think of it a little differently. The leaf does not have to believe in the wind for it to be moved; the leaf doesn't know the wind at all, it only knows motion. A more direct translation of our saying is "the leaf does not feel the winds." It's a suggestion that a master of the Way has no rules and knows no secrets, but only acts, in accordance with the winds that move her. I suspect your meaning is a little different, though.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 930	Posted - 2015.08.10 03:38:19 - [24] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: I have seen often that pagans and apostates will use the words : "I do not believe in your God." As if belief somehow makes a shred of difference? It is the revealed will of God that all should be reclaimed unto Him. So what does your belief matter, little speck? The leaf does not need to believe in the wind, nor the sea creature the current of the oceans... Both are directed none the less, both suffer, both are taught... such is the way with all humanity, even capsuleers. Amen. Belief makes a heck of a lot of difference when disbelief is accompanied by the will to wade through enough oceans of blood to kill every believer. I have no intention of doing so myself, mind you, but there are others out there with the will, and the venom, and the desire.
Deitra Vess Scope Works 557	Posted - 2015.08.10 03:53:37 - [25] - Quote Soren Tyrhanos wrote: Deitra Vess wrote: Things i said in response to Shaddam Daphiti It would depend what actions are inspired in people by those words. Simple words can be as devastating and as useful as the practical application of the fire arm. Sometimes more useful than others. Your absolutely right. I'm simply saying with those words the desire to defend those thoughts is present. And they're generally with force. The opposite side of the fence is true as well, really with equal force i can safely admit.That's where this difference lays. The difference in beliefs creates a lot of the conflict, thus how can you not see it?
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2015.08.11 00:57:41 - [26] - Quote I have received the following mail and decided that this Public Journal is an ideal place to answer it Quote: Hello I See you Believe in Salvation through Hardship. Do you also Believe in Prophetic Visions that a Faithful person may Receive whilst undergoing Physical Trials ? Sincerely Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol. Visions and prophesy are indeed gifts known to be granted by God to the faithful. However, one must humbly seek guidance when receiving such a vision... Cults like the Sani-Sabik are the result of not responding to visions with wisdom and humility. It is for this reason that the Theology Council exists. Were I ever so gifted.. it would be first to them I would turn.
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 22	Posted - 2015.08.15 04:29:40 - [27] - Quote I humbly call on the Faithful to join me in minestry in Safizon. The Navy, in testament to the providence of God turned away the Drifter attack, but there are injured ... Both in flesh and spirit... That need us now. It does not matter your skill, or your experience, if you have a true heart of service... Join me.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1010	Posted - 2015.08.15 04:56:03 - [28] - Quote Yeah, maybe if I'd stop getting shot when I show up to help. Until then? No. I only keep helping people who shoot me if they're my friends.
Synthetic Cultist Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik 475	Posted - 2015.08.15 08:15:42 - [29] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: I have received the following mail and decided that this Public Journal is an ideal place to answer it I am Slightly Displeased that a Private Communication was answered Publicly. If I had wanted to Ask Publicly, I would have Asked in the Channel that you were Talking in, or on this Thread. Thusly, I am Slightly Displeased. Sincerely. Synthia 1. Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol. It is Written.
Anabella Rella Gradient 2000	Posted - 2015.08.15 08:18:50 - [30] - Quote Oh great, another baby slaver is unleashed upon the cluster. How about a nice game of Poker instead of quoting your tainted scriptures? I see your god and raise you 5000 rounds of Republic Fleet EMP. Your call. When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:40:12 - [31] - Quote Synthetic Cultist wrote: Shaddam Daphiti wrote: I have received the following mail and decided that this Public Journal is an ideal place to answer it I am Slightly Displeased that a Private Communication was answered Publicly. If I had wanted to Ask Publicly, I would have Asked in the Channel that you were Talking in, or on this Thread. Thusly, I am Slightly Displeased. Sincerely. Synthia 1. Your own affiliation with the Sani-Sabik aside, the question you posed has been asked by others as well thus I chose to answer it publicly. "There is nothing done in shadows that is not seen by the Lords eye." As it was a fairly common question and contained no information of a personal nature I would suggest you lay aside pride... were it not for the fact that you are an artificial construct. Given that fact I am not concerned with what 'displeases" you.
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2015.08.15 15:46:51 - [32] - Quote Anabella Rella wrote: Oh great, another baby slaver is unleashed upon the cluster. How about a nice game of Poker instead of quoting your tainted scriptures? I see your god and raise you 5000 rounds of Republic Fleet EMP. Your call. Such anger, your suffering must be great.. I will not trade insults but i will respond with the same I gave another of your kin with similar hatred : Quote: You speak with the anger of a child who hates their parents rod refusing to see your own sins. I will not say that anger is unjustified, as many apply that rod too freely and with too much enjoyment of it. Perhaps God will provide you guidance in the form of a Holder who will help you to stand in the midst of your own suffering. Amen.
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2015.08.16 02:14:01 - [33] - Quote At the insistence of my instructors* I have contacted the Career Agents at the academy. I am sorely disheartened that there is no Agent for Minestry, which is the path of service I feel most leading towards. How can I aid others to endure and learn from their own suffering by mining Veldspar or slaughtering crews? Finally I have decided on Business... For in learning the market one must also learn communication and oratory. *I have also corrected the flesh, and pray The Lords forgiveness for my sloth in my education.
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2015.08.17 03:42:51 - [34] - Quote In but a few hours I shall have completed my degree of study in business and already can see my instincts were correct. Contracts and negotiations are the heartstrings of New Edan as these drive nearly every other action in the known Galaxy. Perhaps I can put these skills to use bringing both the Holy Word and my own humble service to the pagans. Lord willing, Amen.
Scherezad Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 2420	Posted - 2015.08.17 04:44:02 - [35] - Quote What is it that makes a pagan a pagan, sir? The word doesn't translate very well here. I'm apparently a pagan, but the translation dictionary says this involves naked cavorting around fires. And, uh, I don't think I've done that. What am I missing?
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1033	Posted - 2015.08.17 04:56:03 - [36] - Quote Scherezad wrote: What is it that makes a pagan a pagan, sir? The word doesn't translate very well here. I'm apparently a pagan, but the translation dictionary says this involves naked cavorting around fires. And, uh, I don't think I've done that. What am I missing? ... and where can we get whatever is making people do this?
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 37	Posted - 2015.08.17 04:56:46 - [37] - Quote Scherezad wrote: What is it that makes a pagan a pagan, sir? The word doesn't translate very well here. I'm apparently a pagan, but the translation dictionary says this involves naked cavorting around fires. And, uh, I don't think I've done that. What am I missing? The word "Pagan" means nothing more and nothing less than "of the basic sort." In common usage it means one not of, and not having been before of, The Amarr Faith. Dancing around fires is in no way required, unless that is something you feel a need to do. It is good that you ask these things, asking is the first step to learning and alieving suffering you may not even have been aware of because you did not... To use your own phrase "know of the wind."
Scherezad Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 2422	Posted - 2015.08.17 05:07:01 - [38] - Quote I've never danced around a fire, though I've heard it's fun. I don't think I would though. I'm pretty clumsy and would probably end up tripping into it! To learn from the wind, One doesn't ask someone who says that they know the winds. One should ask the Rook.
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2015.08.17 05:09:38 - [39] - Quote Yet, ask you did and answer truthfully did I.
Scherezad Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 2422	Posted - 2015.08.17 05:15:44 - [40] - Quote You're quite a tall rook! :)
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1035	Posted - 2015.08.17 06:38:48 - [41] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Scherezad wrote: What is it that makes a pagan a pagan, sir? The word doesn't translate very well here. I'm apparently a pagan, but the translation dictionary says this involves naked cavorting around fires. And, uh, I don't think I've done that. What am I missing? The word "Pagan" means nothing more and nothing less than "of the basic sort." In common usage it means one not of, and not having been before of, The Amarr Faith. Dancing around fires is in no way required, unless that is something you feel a need to do. Maybe the way you commonly use it, but I'm gonna be commonly using it to mean dancing starkers around a fire!
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1035	Posted - 2015.08.17 06:40:10 - [42] - Quote Scherezad wrote: You're quite a tall rook! :) Maybe he just looks tall to a little fish? Seriously, though, that pagan stuff sounds like a lot of fun. I know someone I need to talk into trying it.
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2015.08.18 03:52:53 - [43] - Quote It is clear that some are so busy worshiping the flesh they do not see the harm and suffering they bring on themselves. Lord, have mercy on the lost that does not even know it... May they find guidance, humility, and shame. Amen.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1058	Posted - 2015.08.18 04:21:26 - [44] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: It is clear that some are so busy worshiping the flesh they do not see the harm and suffering they bring on themselves. Lord, have mercy on the lost that does not even know it... May they find guidance, humility, and shame. God made yer flesh, there, Rook. Why not treat it like a gift, not a curse?
Shaddam Daphiti Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 41	Posted - 2015.08.21 06:22:59 - [45] - Quote An unforgivable act: Earlier today I had the pleasure of meeting with Director Lunarisse Aspenstar to discuss the possibilities of service. I have found her to be a just and righteous woman, a testament to God and His Empire. I also had the pleasure of meeting a number of those who serve under her guidance, all upstanding persons. Unfortunately our meeting was interrupted when a blood cultist, who at first tried to give the pretense of being a normal patron of the establishments, attempted to kill her via a crude explosive device implanted in the clones skull. It was thanks in no small part to the valor and attentiveness of Lunarisses people that no one, not even a bystander, was harmed in the attempt The clone used in this attempt was of the "soft clone" type and apparently had suffered great harm in her modification into a weapon. Her demeanor and behaviors showing signs of great instability as emotional stress took hold just before the actual attempt on the Directors life. The Sin of the SaniiSabik is self evident and well known but this particular cultist... Whom I shall not honor with a name.. Is guilty of an even graver sin against God, clones are alive... And prior to activation and neuro transcriptions completely innocent beings. To craft a clone for the sole purpose of being a weapon, crudely scooping out brain matter to implant an explosive... Is a horror I can only liken to the butchering alive of a child! May God's justice be swift and mighty, Amen.
Arista Shahni Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 217	Posted - 2015.08.21 08:11:19 - [46] - Quote My goodness. I am certainly pleased to hear that Ms. Aspenstar is safe. I would advise care in the act of witnessing - and doing so for yourself - so publicly. That which is to be between you and God should only be as such. Do fly safe. -- Witness Arista Shahni "I say that even as the holy and the righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you - so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also. -áAnd as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all."
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 41	Posted - 2015.08.21 18:51:14 - [47] - Quote I could not save Her.. none of us could... We are still fallen, imperfect. Forgive us, oh Lord...
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 51	Posted - 2015.08.23 04:46:13 - [48] - Quote I have seen, already not even a day after Her Holiness passed, many saying they support this or that Heir. For shame!!! Woe unto you unrepentant and prideful generation! The trials are not a popularity contest, nor some game to wager on, nor some electoral mockery! They are tests, built on countless ages of Amarr history to determine which is God's Chosen! Pledge yourself and your swords to God's Will and God's Chosen! Anything else is Sin and vanity!
Kairelle Raven.Syndicate 13	Posted - 2015.08.23 04:53:02 - [49] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: The trials are not a popularity contest, nor some game to wager on, nor some electoral mockery! Ya know that's a good idea. Wonder if we could get that picked up on the eve-bet Galnet site. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Simon Louvaki Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. 684	Posted - 2015.08.23 05:02:49 - [50] - Quote Hmm, Id argue that to the Houses the Trials are the greatest wager one could make. -- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 --"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 51	Posted - 2015.08.23 05:19:54 - [51] - Quote Kairelle wrote: Shaddam Daphiti wrote: The trials are not a popularity contest, nor some game to wager on, nor some electoral mockery! Ya know that's a good idea. Wonder if we could get that picked up on the eve-bet Galnet site. Is this a joke? If so I find it in very very poor taste.
Kairelle Raven.Syndicate 15	Posted - 2015.08.23 07:02:33 - [52] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Kairelle wrote: Shaddam Daphiti wrote: The trials are not a popularity contest, nor some game to wager on, nor some electoral mockery! Ya know that's a good idea. Wonder if we could get that picked up on the eve-bet Galnet site. Is this a joke? If so I find it in very very poor taste. No...not a joke. We all know the trials will happen...I'm just trying to make things a little more interesting for the rest of the cluster. I'll go ahead and assume you really wont like the idea of having them broadcast either will you? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1183	Posted - 2015.08.23 08:11:02 - [53] - Quote Kairelle wrote: Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Kairelle wrote: Shaddam Daphiti wrote: The trials are not a popularity contest, nor some game to wager on, nor some electoral mockery! Ya know that's a good idea. Wonder if we could get that picked up on the eve-bet Galnet site. Is this a joke? If so I find it in very very poor taste. No...not a joke. We all know the trials will happen...I'm just trying to make things a little more interesting for the rest of the cluster. I'll go ahead and assume you really wont like the idea of having them broadcast either will you? And we all know it'll happen. I'd be surprised if there aren't already wagers being booked in YA0.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 56	Posted - 2015.08.23 16:30:16 - [54] - Quote Kairelle wrote: I'll go ahead and assume you really wont like the idea of having them broadcast either will you? You assume incorrectly, and show your extreme ignorance of our culture as well. The trials are Traditionally available for public view. How else can the people have the confidence that it is God's will that a given Heir is Chosen? We do not view the trials as entertainment, however. For us they are a sacred and important matter. If games of chance are the only thing that will hold someones interest in a matter with Galaxy wide effects... that person is truly lost. I'm sending you two datachips, free of charge, to help alleviate your ignorance: The children's primer : "A Is For Amarr" and The very popular : "Everybody Sins"
Aria Jenneth Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 1422	Posted - 2015.08.23 17:23:45 - [55] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: If games of chance are the only thing that will hold someones interest in a matter with Galaxy wide effects... that person is truly lost. Respectfully, pilot, it's an absolute flat dead certainty that citizens in the Caldari State by the trillions will be placing wagers on the outcome. To most of these people, the Empire is someplace distant and exotic that they'll probably never see, and the importance of the succession in their own lives is a little obscure, so.... Also, the Caldari as a culture absolutely love betting on things.
Tony-Vagabond Carter Perkone Caldari State 11	Posted - 2015.08.25 02:59:12 - [56] - Quote it's true, some of us at least, though I suspect the mans point is that this is a serious matter. Let me assure you Mr. Daphiti .... For myself at least ,I do understand that.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1259	Posted - 2015.08.25 04:54:34 - [57] - Quote Tony-Vagabond Carter wrote: it's true, some of us at least, though I suspect the mans point is that this is a serious matter. Let me assure you Mr. Daphiti .... For myself at least ,I do understand that. Many people understand that - and most of them have absolutely no chance of affecting the outcome... so why not make some money on it if they can?
Kairelle Raven.Syndicate 23	Posted - 2015.08.25 06:11:52 - [58] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Kairelle wrote: I'll go ahead and assume you really wont like the idea of having them broadcast either will you? You assume incorrectly, and show your extreme ignorance of our culture as well. The trials are Traditionally available for public view. How else can the people have the confidence that it is God's will that a given Heir is Chosen? We do not view the trials as entertainment, however. For us they are a sacred and important matter. If games of chance are the only thing that will hold someones interest in a matter with Galaxy wide effects... that person is truly lost. I'm sending you two datachips, free of charge, to help alleviate your ignorance: The children's primer : "A Is For Amarr" and The very popular : "Everybody Sins" Well seems we are both a bit ignorant of the others culture. Thanks for the datachips....I'll be sure to put them somewhere....where they wont immediately get lost. Hell I might even give them a once over if I'm incredibly bored one day. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Kairelle Raven.Syndicate 23	Posted - 2015.08.25 06:14:03 - [59] - Quote Tony-Vagabond Carter wrote: it's true, some of us at least, though I suspect the mans point is that this is a serious matter. Let me assure you Mr. Daphiti .... For myself at least ,I do understand that. Oh I think most anyone can understand the gravity of the matter. That said as Arrendis pointed out....why not make some money off it and have a little fun to boot? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 62	Posted - 2015.08.29 16:44:01 - [60] - Quote A growing sickness... I cannot help but be perturbed by the .. I'll call it what it is, Resurrectionist Cult growing around The Late Empress. to quote their own manifesto of faith : Quote: Q: When will Empress Jamyl return? A: At the end of days, whenever that may be. Have faith in her return, but for now, serve God and Empire. They claim this is not heretical on the basis that the Theology Council has not declared it so. Ridiculous and fallacious! By such reasoning I could preach that God saves only those who wear tritanium laced robes!.. it's not heretical.. the Theology council has not declared it so! Even if they have not been so labeled, this teaching is dangerous! In this the age of clones one need only a sample of Her Holiness' DNA to prop up a false leader which this cult's descendants would flock to like meat-stock to the slaughter! "13 Then Molok the Deceiver sundered the lands and the people suffered floods and plagues conjured by him. Molok turned the people against the sefrim and people who once sang their praise now abhorred them. " - Chapter I of the Epitoth in the Book of Scriptures
Alizebeth Amalath Order of Jamyl 200	Posted - 2015.08.29 17:17:13 - [61] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: They claim this is not heretical on the basis that the Theology Council has not declared it so. Ridiculous and fallacious! By such reasoning I could preach that God saves only those who wear tritanium laced robes!.. it's not heretical.. the Theology council has not declared it so! Even if they have not been so labeled, this teaching is dangerous! In this the age of clones one need only a sample of Her Holiness' DNA to prop up a false leader which this cult's descendants would flock to like meat-stock to the slaughter! "13 Then Molok the Deceiver sundered the lands and the people suffered floods and plagues conjured by him. Molok turned the people against the sefrim and people who once sang their praise now abhorred them. " - Chapter I of the Epitoth in the Book of Scriptures Every new theology, belief or revelation is subject to scrutiny. I welcome your skepticism and relish the chance to demonstrate the righteousness of my beliefs. When Her Majesty returned previous, there was a clear sign of God's favor and will: the Bright Star, the need of the Empire for Salvation from the blooder chamberlain and the Elder fleet, and the lack of an Emperor. And so again, will it be. The coming of the Ark, the end of days, the Empire's need, evidence of God's will and favor will all be signs of her return. The Amarr are not a people of blind faith and neither are the Jamylites.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2343	Posted - 2015.08.29 17:19:15 - [62] - Quote There is nothing in Scripture to say that Her Imperial Majesty will return a second time. The Ark will come, but there is no basis for believing that it will carry Her Majesty. Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor "Reclaim our Empire"
Goldfinch House Rkard 341	Posted - 2015.08.29 17:42:05 - [63] - Quote Mr. Daphiti, we do not know if this is the correct title to address you by. Do correct us if we are doing so incorrectly. We and you are both flagellants, believers in walking the straight and narrow line of Faith with any deviations punishable not only by spiritual censure, but through physical castigation and punishment. If you meet us face to face, we can share with you our scars and bruises. We have no pride for any such marks, for each represents a personal failure of Faith. To imply that Sacred Flesh can simply be cloned is a grave sin. Any such attempt would most certainly be met by retribution from God. Sacred Flesh is peerless and Divinely Blessed and no manmade process can make it or unmake it. As people of the Faith, we Jamylites practice great Vigilance against treachery and deception. If Jamyl were to return, the Order of Jamyl would not be body to declare her authenticity. That responsibility would be the Theology Council's and the Emperor's. Who are you to doubt their word, in such an event? We are not deceived by Molok or any such constructions of sophistry. Your accusations are divisive to Amarr. If you would like to take our hand, we offer it to you. You need not share our adoration for the Once and Future Empress. We can join hands as Amarr and surrender together as we do at the Call to Prayer. And as always, \J/. Hands up for Jamyl. \J/ veiled and bound my origin story (on R109)
Nicoletta Mithra Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 589	Posted - 2015.08.29 21:42:43 - [64] - Quote The idea that the late Empress - may she rest in peace - will return a second time is not only not supported by scripture, it's also not supported by reason. And for something to qualify as theology it doesn't merely need to be a belief, it also needs to be in accord with reason. The resurrectionist belief, given the lack of any evidence - scriptural or otherwise - is based in the fallcy that attempts to deduce a 'will' from a 'could': As such it is irrational and unreasonable and can't be theological in nature. It is in nature more close to wishful thinking, if not the same, probably born out of the certainly traumatic experience of seeing the late Empress - God bless her soul - die without being able to intervene against the dreadful Drifters. In fact, to believe that God will send His servant Jamyl Sarum a third time (one time by birth, two times by miraculous means) in the end times seems to conflict with established theology: God for certain is not bound to send her for the salvation of mankind, he sure can effect that by other means. 'Resurrectionism' is narrowing our view of God, where it should be wide. It distracts attention from God and places Jamyl Sarum at the center of the misplaced attention, something that she certainly wouldn't condone herself. The Empress herself gave no indication whatsoever that she will return a second time, either. It is falsehood to teach a mere possibility, which is just a little drop in the vast ocean of possibilities, as fact. Furthermore, a defective understanding of 'salvation' is at work here. While in colloquial speech 'salvation' can denote 'being saved or protected from harm' or 'being saved or delivered from some dire situation', which the late Empress did, 'slavation' denotes in the strict soteriological meaning the 'saving of the soul from sin and its consequences' and thus 'eschatological unity of the soul with God'. The 'ressurectionists' seem to fail to distinguish between the former and the latter and thus make an illicit connection between the two, talking about them as if they were one. It is falsehood to teach that two different things, though same in name, are one. Only in God can we thrive and grow. Only in God.
Goldfinch House Rkard 342	Posted - 2015.08.29 22:13:40 - [65] - Quote We will address your statements point by point. Nicoletta Mithra wrote: The idea that the late Empress - may she rest in peace - will return a second time is not only not supported by scripture . . In fact, to believe that God will send His servant, Jamyl Sarum, a third time (one time by birth, two times by miraculous means) in the end times seems to conflict with established theology We are unable to locate the complete and unabridged Amarr Scriptures. Have you studied every verse personally and come to this conclusion? Would you forward us all the verses you used for your determination, so that everyone here can be satisfied you are not just making conclusions based on a few verses only? When you mention "established theology" are you planning to present or quote said theology in a subsequent post? Quote: The resurrectionist belief, given the lack of any evidence - scriptural or otherwise - is based in the fallcy that attempts to deduce a 'will' from a 'could': The Empress came back to life once, by the grace of God and only God. Do you disagree with this statement? You are treading on dangerous ground, here. Quote: God for certain is not bound to send her for the salvation of mankind, he sure can effect that by other means. It truly sounds like you are speaking for God now. This seems like inappropriate conjecture. Quote: It is falsehood to teach a mere possibility, which is just a little drop in the vast ocean of possibilities, as fact. You can tell that to everyone who believes the Holy Amarr Empire will come victorious against the Drifter threat. Hope is not conjecture. Hope is not an enemy of Faith. Regarding GÇÿsalvationGÇÖ, itGÇÖs quite possible youGÇÖre reading into things too far. We are of the Amarr faith. We believe what you believe. We hold Jamyl in great esteem because the Scriptures tell us we should. Her position is always subservient to God. The Mercy of our Emperor is Limitless. His Rule is Benign and Righteous. His Love is Perpetual. --The Scriptures, Book I, The Code of Demeanor You will never see any criticism of the Faith, of the Empire, or any of the Faithful from Jamylites. Our enemy is at our gates, and our divisiveness will only feed them. We offer you our hand as well, so that we may pray together to God. \J/ Hands up for Jamyl. \J/ veiled and bound my origin story (on R109)
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2349	Posted - 2015.08.29 22:22:58 - [66] - Quote Remember your place, Mrs. Rkard. Dangerous ground is being tread here, but it's not by Ms. Mithra. Instead of putting your hands up for Jamyl, you should be putting them together for God. Idolatry is a sin. Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor "Reclaim our Empire"
Goldfinch House Rkard 342	Posted - 2015.08.29 22:44:28 - [67] - Quote Lieutenant Kernher, we have an immense amount of the respect for you. Perhaps you know a bit about us as well. You have decided to level an unprompted accusation at us, and worse, attacked our fidelity to God. We turn the other cheek to you. Feel free to strike it. We will not fight you. We hope your hand grows tired before we are unable to stand again, but we bear no ill will in being the loser of this fight. \J/ veiled and bound my origin story (on R109)
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 68	Posted - 2015.08.30 05:20:40 - [68] - Quote Goldfinch wrote: Mr. Daphiti, we do not know if this is the correct title to address you by. We apologize if it is not. We and you are both flagellants, believers in walking the straight and narrow line of Faith with any deviations punishable not only by spiritual censure, but through physical castigation and punishment. If you meet us face to face, we can share with you our scars and bruises. We have no pride for any such marks, for each represents a personal failure of Faith. To imply that Sacred Flesh can simply be cloned is a grave sin. Any such attempt would most certainly be met by retribution from God. Sacred Flesh is peerless and Divinely Blessed and no manmade process can make it or unmake it. As people of the Faith, we Jamylites practice great Vigilance against treachery and deception. If Jamyl were to return, the Order of Jamyl would not be body to declare her authenticity. That responsibility would be the Theology Council's and the Emperor's. Who are you to doubt their word, in such an event? We are not deceived by Molok or any such constructions of sophistry. Your accusations are divisive to Amarr. If you would like to take our hand, we offer it to you. You need not share our adoration for the Once and Future Empress. We can join hands as Amarr and surrender together to God as we do at the Call to Prayer. And as always, \J/. Hands up for Jamyl. Mr. Is fine, I am not Nor do I claim any further rights or titles. Your devotion to mastering the wayward flesh is commendable, but not really relevant to this matter. I imply nothing of the sort, you know perfectly well The Faith and Science walk hand in hand. Sacred Flesh does not make DNA any more or less than DNA. It is doctrine that an Heir and thereby any Emperor respect God's gift of their corporeal vessel by NOT cloning it. If my pet furrier begins singing psalms it will be the Provence of the same to verify that as well. That fact does not make any such event likely or supported by Scripture, Reason, or experience. You seem to misunderstand my recitations of scripture, I am not given to hyperbole. Never the less, like Molok decieved the masses an other Decievor could lure away resurrectionists very easily. Therefore I call such teachings dangerous.
Kairelle Raven.Syndicate Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 31	Posted - 2015.08.30 06:07:15 - [69] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: If my pet furrier begins singing psalms it will be the Provence of the same to verify that as well. That fact does not make any such event likely or supported by Scripture, Reason, or experience. You have a pet furrier? Always thought about getting one of those....what are they like? Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 68	Posted - 2015.08.30 06:29:18 - [70] - Quote Kairelle wrote: Shaddam Daphiti wrote: If my pet furrier begins singing psalms it will be the Provence of the same to verify that as well. That fact does not make any such event likely or supported by Scripture, Reason, or experience. You have a pet furrier? Always thought about getting one of those....what are they like? On of God's more pleasant creations, if you have the right temperament for their personality.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1395	Posted - 2015.08.30 09:39:59 - [71] - Quote I was... not really enthusiastic in taking part in this discussion though... I would tend to agree with Ms Mithra on the principles and theological theory... But I just feel that believing in Jamyl I return is akin to believing in God. It can not be proven or denied by available facts and Reason, and even if it proves to me as improbable as God being some kind of cosmic anthropomorphic figure, it still lies in the realm of possibilities, and thus, Faith... And when Reason will disprove it, then it will disappear from Faith, as it should. Or when Reason will make it true, then it will be incorporated into Knowledge, which intersects both Faith and Reason, like Scripture does.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 69	Posted - 2015.08.30 14:11:50 - [72] - Quote Lyn Farel wrote: I was... not really enthusiastic in taking part in this discussion though... I would tend to agree with Ms Mithra on the principles and theological theory... But I just feel that believing in Jamyl I return is akin to believing in God. It can not be proven or denied by available facts and Reason, and even if it proves to me as improbable as God being some kind of cosmic anthropomorphic figure, it still lies in the realm of possibilities, and thus, Faith... And when Reason will disprove it, then it will disappear from Faith, as it should. Or when Reason will make it true, then it will be incorporated into Knowledge, which intersects both Faith and Reason, like Scripture does. I cannot and will not tell you what to believe and what not to believe. That is the role of the Theology Council. I can and must give warning when I see a teaching that I perceive as dangerous and unsupported by Scripture, Reason, and Experience. That is also the limit of my role.
Nicoletta Mithra Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 593	Posted - 2015.08.30 23:54:51 - [73] - Quote Quote: Goldfinch: We will address your statements point by point. Nicoletta Mithra: The idea that the late Empress - may she rest in peace - will return a second time is not only not supported by scripture (...) In fact, to believe that God will send His servant, Jamyl Sarum, a third time (one time by birth, two times by miraculous means) in the end times seems to conflict with established theology Goldfinch: We are unable to locate the complete and unabridged Amarr Scriptures. Have you studied every verse personally and come to this conclusion? Would you forward us all the verses you used for your determination, so that everyone here can be satisfied you are not just making conclusions based on a few verses only? When you mention "established theology" are you planning to present or quote said theology in a subsequent post? I'm quite sure it'd have been noted if the Scriptures would speak of a second return of Jamyl Sarum: They didn't even speak of the first, which would have quite surely been made known when she did return for the first time. But feel free and show me the passage where a second ressurrection of Jamyl Sarum is foretold in the Scriotures: After all it's you who's putting forward this idea, so the burden of proof rests with you. Quote: Nicoletta Mithra: The resurrectionist belief, given the lack of any evidence - scriptural or otherwise - is based in the fallcy that attempts to deduce a 'will' from a 'could'. Goldfinch: The Empress came back to life once, by the grace of God and only God. Do you disagree with this statement? You are treading on dangerous ground, here. I don't need to question that at all to point out that a second return is a possibility but not a fact. You're just treating my comment out of context - which you probably must to have any leverage against it. But please, show me how a second return of the late Empress follows logically from the first - or does at least confer on it with logical necessity a higher probability. Quote: Nicoletta Mithra: God for certain is not bound to send her for the salvation of mankind, he sure can effect that by other means. Goldfinch: It truly sounds like you are speaking for God now. This seems like inappropriate conjecture. When I say that God is not bound to your predictions of s second return of Empress Jamyl Sarum I am supposed to sound like I'm speaking for God? I'm pointing out that you shouldn't say what God will or won't do, except if in possession of good reason to do so. Which you lack entirely in the case of a second resurrection and return of the late Empress. So, it's more like you're saying what God will do. I'd rather leave to God what He will do and I advise you to do the same. Quote: Nicoletta Mithra: It is falsehood to teach a mere possibility, which is just a little drop in the vast ocean of possibilities, as fact. Goldfinch: You can tell that to everyone who believes the Holy Amarr Empire will come victorious against the Drifter threat. Hope is not conjecture. Hope is not an enemy of Faith. Again you treat what I say entirely out of context: It's not about victory over the Drifter threat, it is about your 'resurrectionist' ideas. While it is a possibility that Lord God will ressurrect the late Empress a second time at the eschaton, it remains a possibility: Not a fact. Also, there is no hope needed in a second resurrection of the late Empress here, only hope and faith in salvation through God. Anyway: In teaching the second resurrection as a fact, you're making an error, because you teach a falsehood. Goldfinch wrote: Regarding GÇÿsalvationGÇÖ, itGÇÖs quite possible youGÇÖre reading into things too far. We are of the Amarr faith. We believe what you believe. We hold Jamyl in great esteem because the Scriptures tell us we should. Her position is always subservient to God. (...) You will never see any criticism of the Faith, of the Empire, or any of the Faithful from Jamylites. Our enemy is at our gates, and our divisiveness will only feed them. We offer you our hand as well, so that we may pray together to God. Then how do you connect the 'salvation' that Empress Jamyl Sarum's return provided from the Elder fleet with the soteriological salvation at the end of times, arguing that because the late Empress provided the former, she will clearly be connected to the latter? One has not much to do with the other and most certainly you can't deduce the latter from the former - that's the point here. Yet you claim that they do. And really, I don't believe that Empress Jamyl Sarum will be resurrected a second time, while you, apparently, do. Nor have I a vested belief that she won't. I believe that it is unnecessary to have any vested belief one way or the other and that any belief in the matter is more harmful than not believing. So we don't believe the same things - despite (hopefully) great overlap in our beliefs. Also, you don't need to voice criticism to commit to false or dangerous beliefs. Your 'resurrectionsim' is the source of divisiveness, if anything. The late Empress deserves our respect, but to idolize her as you do is going too far. Only in God can we thrive and grow. Only in God.
Nicoletta Mithra Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 593	Posted - 2015.08.31 00:24:02 - [74] - Quote Lyn Farel wrote: I was... not really enthusiastic in taking part in this discussion though... I would tend to agree with Ms Mithra on the principles and theological theory... But I just feel that believing in Jamyl I return is akin to believing in God. It can not be proven or denied by available facts and Reason, and even if it proves to me as improbable as God being some kind of cosmic anthropomorphic figure, it still lies in the realm of possibilities, and thus, Faith... And when Reason will disprove it, then it will disappear from Faith, as it should. Or when Reason will make it true, then it will be incorporated into Knowledge, which intersects both Faith and Reason, like Scripture does. Even though God is beyond being strictly proven or disproven, that doesn't mean there are no reasons to believe in the existence of God (in fact, there are). I won't go into the details of fundamental theology and apologetics here, so indicating those two filed which deal with such reasons and the defense of them on rational ground has to suffice. So, believing in the second return of Jamyl Sarum I - God bless her soul - might be akin to believing in God, but that's just another reason to repudiate it. Jamyl Sarum is a human person, she is dependant on a first, uncaused cause and so would be a second ressurrection of her - just as the first. So, if one poses the same reasons for believing her second resurrection as for believing in the existence of God (that is: the first, uncaused cause), one is only getting deeper into the dangerous territory of idolatrism and away from monotheism. Furthermore justifying two thinggs with the resoans to assume a first, uncaused cause would be rather self-contradictory: This is due to making the category mistake of giving the resons for belief in a first, uncaused cause to (also) justify belief in a caused thing. Also, I don't know how you come to the idea that "Knowledge intersects both Faith and Reason". Honestly I'm not even quite sure what you mean by that. I suppose you refer to the idea in epistemology that knowledge is the intersection of belief and truth. That position doesn't work though as a premise for whatever argument you want to give there.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1399	Posted - 2015.08.31 20:09:11 - [75] - Quote Praefecta, I never said that God has yet to be proven... I was pretty sure to have equated it to certain representations and interpretations of said God. To my knowledge, those are shared even today by most of Amarr, and are certainly not apocrypha. I was even scolded by Amarrians once to have criticized them for being improbable.
Lunarisse Aspenstar Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 454	Posted - 2015.09.01 01:22:05 - [76] - Quote Nicoletta Mithra wrote: Even though God is beyond being strictly proven or disproven, that doesn't mean there are no reasons to believe in the existence of God (in fact, there are). I won't go into the details of fundamental theology and apologetics here, so indicating those two filed which deal with such reasons and the defense of them on rational ground has to suffice. The Blessed Amarr know God is proven through his active involvement in our history. From the very earliest days from the journey of the Blessed Dano Gheinok to Athra the assistance and guidance of the Sefrim in the days of Amash-Akura and the signs therewith, the physical gifts of the Sefrim in the form of the Ametat and the Avetat, the witness of St. Junip of Aerui and the Prophet Anoyia and his other multitudes of Saints and Prophets - who we venerate but do not worship - miracles over the ages all the way through to the Divine Miracle where the late and Blessed Empress Jamyl I returned in the time of her people's greatest need to dispatch the Elder Fleet with a weapon that, much like the Hand of God, needed only one sweep. To trust and hope that the Living God will act with his Hands once more does not strike me as heresy so long as the Faithful also do their own share and work in furtherance of his ends and do not fall into complacency or error from established Scriptures and precepts of the Faith.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1380	Posted - 2015.09.01 01:28:10 - [77] - Quote Tell me, do you consider the Elder Fleet to have been more powerful than the Drifters? Able to field more firepower? Strike in a more unpredictable manner? Absorb hundreds of losses with no visible loss of OpTempo? If not, I question 'the time of her people's greatest need'.
Alizebeth Amalath Order of Jamyl 204	Posted - 2015.09.01 01:36:54 - [78] - Quote The issue of her return is that she will be able to do something due to her Divinely appointed position that we will not be able to do for ourselves. We can defeat the drifters, with effort and God's grace.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 73	Posted - 2015.09.01 01:50:18 - [79] - Quote Alizebeth Amalath wrote: The issue of her return is that she will be able to do something due to her Divinely appointed position that we will not be able to do for ourselves. We can defeat the drifters, with effort and God's grace. So this prophesy, has no source.. and relates to a threat which cannot be described? The Danger of this teaching but grows by the minute, now not only can a false Messiah be raised, she can create from whole cloth a custom fit 'threat' to rally the blind followers towards!
Rook Moray Aliastra Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2015.09.01 01:51:59 - [80] - Quote Life is an endless cycle of birth, life, death, rebirth. Of course she will be reborn. Nothing says she'll be reborn an Amarr.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1380	Posted - 2015.09.01 02:08:23 - [81] - Quote Alizebeth Amalath wrote: The issue of her return is that she will be able to do something due to her Divinely appointed position that we will not be able to do for ourselves. We can defeat the drifters, with effort and God's grace. What I referred to was: Quote: Blessed Empress Jamyl I returned in the time of her people's greatest need to dispatch the Elder Fleet
Alizebeth Amalath Order of Jamyl 204	Posted - 2015.09.01 03:33:03 - [82] - Quote At that time, there was no Emperor, which is a very important position in the Empire and faith. The Blooder Chamberlain was in charge and had let the Empire atrophy to the point where we were not capable of beating the Elder fleet. Her Majesty has ascended into Paradise and left behind a strong Empire, one that is capable of dealing with this threat and will chose a new Emperor soon.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1380	Posted - 2015.09.01 04:13:24 - [83] - Quote Alizebeth Amalath wrote: At that time, there was no Emperor, which is a very important position in the Empire and faith. The Blooder Chamberlain was in charge and had let the Empire atrophy to the point where we were not capable of beating the Elder fleet. Her Majesty has ascended into Paradise and left behind a strong Empire, one that is capable of dealing with this threat and will chose a new Emperor soon. At this time, there is no Emperor. And it doesn't look like the Amarr Navy is dealing with much of anything.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 73	Posted - 2015.09.01 05:26:49 - [84] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Alizebeth Amalath wrote: At that time, there was no Emperor, which is a very important position in the Empire and faith. The Blooder Chamberlain was in charge and had let the Empire atrophy to the point where we were not capable of beating the Elder fleet. Her Majesty has ascended into Paradise and left behind a strong Empire, one that is capable of dealing with this threat and will chose a new Emperor soon. At this time, there is no Emperor. And it doesn't look like the Amarr Navy is dealing with much of anything. Not to lend credence to ressurectionist teachings, but you are actually mistaken. The drifter incursion that immediately followed her Majesties murder was turned and repelled.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1380	Posted - 2015.09.01 05:42:06 - [85] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Not to lend credence to ressurectionist teachings, but you are actually mistaken. The drifter incursion that immediately followed her Majesties murder was turned and repelled. Don't believe that for a moment. Mokk was reporting from the combat zone that the Navy's forces were being slaughtered without appreciable resistance. The Drifters pulled back. You don't know why. I don't know why. But they weren't 'turned and repelled' any more than they were in Safizon.
Nicoletta Mithra Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 595	Posted - 2015.09.02 00:42:37 - [86] - Quote Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote: Nicoletta Mithra wrote: Even though God is beyond being strictly proven or disproven, that doesn't mean there are no reasons to believe in the existence of God (in fact, there are). I won't go into the details of fundamental theology and apologetics here, so indicating those two filed which deal with such reasons and the defense of them on rational ground has to suffice. The Blessed Amarr know God is proven through his active involvement in our history. From the very earliest days from the journey of the Blessed Dano Gheinok to Athra the assistance and guidance of the Sefrim in the days of Amash-Akura and the signs therewith, the physical gifts of the Sefrim in the form of the Ametat and the Avetat, the witness of St. Junip of Aerui and the Prophet Anoyia and his other multitudes of Saints and Prophets - who we venerate but do not worship - miracles over the ages all the way through to the Divine Miracle where the late and Blessed Empress Jamyl I returned in the time of her people's greatest need to dispatch the Elder Fleet with a weapon that, much like the Hand of God, needed only one sweep. To trust and hope that the Living God will act with his Hands once more does not strike me as heresy so long as the Faithful also do their own share and work in furtherance of his ends and do not fall into complacency or error from established Scriptures and precepts of the Faith. Strictly speaking, that is not proof: It's evidence, but not to the extant that any strict proof has been provided. To prove God, you'd have to give reason why he exists that is incontrovertible. As God is the reason for everything that exists and is itself uncaused, you'll have a hard time to give a strict proof of His existence. As it is, all those historical incidents do not necessitate anyone to assume the existence of God: There are other interpretations available. Thus, faithful and educated Amarr don't take those historical happenings blindly as evidence for God but rather in the light of the reasons to assume an uncaused first cause, that is God, in the first place. To trust and hope that God will act once more isn't heresy. But that's not the point: The 'resurrectionist' error doesn't consist in that hope and trust, but rather in treating a mere possibility of how God will act as a fact about how God will act. God is free in how he will act in the future and unless there is good reason to assume that God promised any specific action, it is better and more divine to simply trust that God will stand by the faithful in the best way, rather than ascribing to him headlessly specific future actions simply because we would like to see them in our imperfection.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 74	Posted - 2015.09.02 07:21:41 - [87] - Quote Laying aside questionable doctrine for the moment I find myself at a difficult point of choice in the matter of Supporting an heir. I have said before that doing so was vanity, and I confess, based largely on my expiriance prior to being Capsuleer. I try not to dwell on the past, I have left much of it behind but... Having my birth and upbringing on Amarr Prime, Athra in it's original name... Has colored my views. Our world was the seat of the Emperor... We have no favored family because to have such might cloud service to God's Chosen. Sarum, Tash-merkon, and the other great families intentionally keep to the other nearby systems... Thus dubbed the Throne Worlds. Now that I am capsuleer I have finally seen that I do have a role to play in God's selection... But with whom do I cast my lot.. And if I choose wrongly is that a sin? I pray for guidance.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1385	Posted - 2015.09.02 08:36:48 - [88] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Now that I am capsuleer I have finally seen that I do have a role to play in God's selection... But with whom do I cast my lot.. And if I choose wrongly is that a sin? I pray for guidance. God has made his choice, pilot. He knew which of these Heirs was going to win before he created the universe. That's what it means to be omniscient. You cannot sin in your choice - for in this, God's choice has already been made, and that Heir will win. But the Heirs who lose will still need Champions in order to compete. Thus, if you support a candidate who is not victorious, your choice was not a violation of God's will, but an action necessary to its fulfillment. For if capsuleers only support the candidate God has chosen, then God's Chosen cannot win, because the others cannot lose. They must have supporters, and Champions, that their part in unfolding events can be played to their destined ends. I mean, if you believe in God'n stuff. I believe in GoonScout CookiesGäó. We've still got.... lemme see... one... two... that's a stack... ... several million boxes of ChreMoas and Blue Donuts, just waiting for someone who can appreciate them.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2357	Posted - 2015.09.02 09:25:03 - [89] - Quote I would like it if atheists stopped attributing traits to God that he may or may not possess. Whether or not God has already chosen is not, and cannot be known to us. God has tasked us to carry out His will and prove that we are worthy of ruling in His name. The succession is dictated by him, but the argument is made by us, His servants. There is no sin in choosing wrongly. The only sin is in passively sitting back and doing nothing. It is our duty to prove to God that our heir is worthy of being His voice. This is the purpose of the succession trials. If you truly believe that your heir is the one who will most faithfully and capably carry out God's will, then invest yourself fully in them and fight with all your devotion. God will hear your conviction. Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor "Reclaim our Empire"
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1387	Posted - 2015.09.02 19:12:31 - [90] - Quote Of course, Lieutenant. I apologize for the presumption. I'll send some cookies as an apology.
Anabella Rella Gradient 2036	Posted - 2015.09.02 19:17:31 - [91] - Quote Samira Kernher wrote: I would like it if atheists stopped attempting to speak with authority on things they know nothing of... Of course, it's not like you zealots never come unbidden into one of our threads to offer up your opinions. Also, so much for trying to convert through peaceful means. Here you have a perfect opportunity to teach about the glory of your god and golden empire but, instead you choose to mock and moralize. Duplicity and hypocrisy thy name is Amarr. When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2370	Posted - 2015.09.02 19:28:50 - [92] - Quote Anabella Rella wrote: Also, so much for trying to convert through peaceful means. Here you have a perfect opportunity to teach about the glory of your god and golden empire but, instead you choose to mock and moralize. Duplicity and hypocrisy thy name is Amarr. I'm confused. I'm speaking honestly, but you're saying I should be speaking dishonestly. And then you're calling us the duplicitous and hypocritical ones? Hm. Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor "Reclaim our Empire"
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 74	Posted - 2015.09.02 21:00:46 - [93] - Quote Anabella Rella wrote: Of course, it's not like you zealots never come unbidden into one of our threads to offer up your opinions. Also, so much for trying to convert through peaceful means. Here you have a perfect opportunity to teach about the glory of your god and golden empire but, instead you choose to mock and moralize. Duplicity and hypocrisy thy name is Amarr. There is nothing wrong with offering ones thoughts, so long as one does not offer them with pretense of being more than that with out support. A Member of the Goon-swarm can see that, can it be that you are so full of hate you cannot see it yourself? Quote: so much for trying to convert through peaceful means here again you show your ignorance... God uplifts all, it is the Will of God That ALL be reclaimed. That Amarr is closest to reclamation makes it Amarr's task to aid others as they are reclaimed themselves. We do not convert anyone.
Deitra Vess Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel 626	Posted - 2015.09.02 21:25:58 - [94] - Quote You don't convert anyone.... RIGHT. Then your love of slavery is an economic thing? * waits for the generic "we show them suffering to get closer to God argument *
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 74	Posted - 2015.09.02 21:46:32 - [95] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: You don't convert anyone.... RIGHT. Then your love of slavery is an economic thing? * waits for the generic "we show them suffering to get closer to God argument * Your bitterness shows in your willful ignorance. The Empire has not taken new slaves since before you were conceived, those kept now by Holders are 8th generation or lower. It is possible you are confusing the Empire with heathen groups such as the Angel Cartel, which does take slaves regularly. Even then enslavement does not uplift, that action occurs only between the slave and God. There is no debate that there are some who take a perverse enjoyment of applying the whip... and as far as I'm concerned Vitox and chipping are disgusting. Being apart from God creates it's own suffering... there is no need to inflict more apart perhaps from mastery of the flesh. I am not a Holder so I cannot claim to have full knowledge of their duties to their slaves .. but feel free to ask one.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1387	Posted - 2015.09.02 22:03:45 - [96] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Your bitterness shows in your willful ignorance. The Empire has not taken new slaves since before you were conceived, those kept now by Holders are 8th generation or lower. So no prisoners of war or criminals have been enslaved in almost three decades? No children have been born to 8th-gen slave parents in the last seven years? Fascinating. I wonder how they went and sterilized so many...
Deitra Vess Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel 626	Posted - 2015.09.02 22:10:52 - [97] - Quote Willfully ignorant? Ignorant when it involves Amarrian, well, anything, yes. Willfully? I'm more than willing to hear about who I fight, the problem? Most questions I ask are met with reiteration of my question or "my faith says so," followed by some fancy words and then some name and number. If not that then sarcasm. Really there is only one person of your faith who (more than likely sarcastically) explained a question I've asked in a way that actually made me stop and think. So I will ask if it doesn't offer "upliftment" or whatever, if its not an economic move why does it still exist? Eighth gen, seventh gen or newly enslaved is irrelevant.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 74	Posted - 2015.09.02 23:10:59 - [98] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Willfully ignorant? Ignorant when it involves Amarrian, well, anything, yes. Willfully? I'm more than willing to hear about who I fight, the problem? Most questions I ask are met with reiteration of my question or "my faith says so," followed by some fancy words and then some name and number. If not that then sarcasm. Really there is only one person of your faith who (more than likely sarcastically) explained a question I've asked in a way that actually made me stop and think. So I will ask if it doesn't offer "upliftment" or whatever, if its not an economic move why does it still exist? Eighth gen, seventh gen or newly enslaved is irrelevant. What it offers is guidance, guardianship, and counseling during what is arguably the most difficult phase of the reclaimation process. As to the question of why it was not abolished entirely by her Holiness, those under the 8th generation were not ready. You would not release a toddler child to the wild... In the same way slaves are not released until they are mature. You would need to ask a Holder what the signs of such readiness were.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 74	Posted - 2015.09.02 23:18:49 - [99] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Your bitterness shows in your willful ignorance. The Empire has not taken new slaves since before you were conceived, those kept now by Holders are 8th generation or lower. So no prisoners of war or criminals have been enslaved in almost three decades? No children have been born to 8th-gen slave parents in the last seven years? Fascinating. I wonder how they went and sterilized so many... A prisoner is a prisoner, though some may choose to commit to slavery to better themselves it is not forced upon them to make that commitment. The child of a slave is a slave at birth, reclaimation is as much a cultural process as it is personal.
Deitra Vess Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel 626	Posted - 2015.09.02 23:20:49 - [100] - Quote So, they're not ready to go forth and do what countless people before them have? People have existed and led fulfilling lives without "being ready" in the Amarrian sense. Did your people need to be cultivated as such? If not then how can you be sure you don't need to be in chains next to them. This faith you have seems to have a clause that omits you all from your own rules. Maybe I just don't get it. But I'm sure its not hard to have faith in a system that doesn't apply to you.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1387	Posted - 2015.09.03 01:57:10 - [101] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Your bitterness shows in your willful ignorance. The Empire has not taken new slaves since before you were conceived, those kept now by Holders are 8th generation or lower. Shaddam Daphiti wrote: The child of a slave is a slave at birth, reclaimation is as much a cultural process as it is personal. So which is it? Are there slaves of the 8th generation whose children are slaves, and thus, slaves of the 9th generation? And no, those prisoners don't have a choice regarding 'indenture'.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 75	Posted - 2015.09.03 05:58:08 - [102] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: So, they're not ready to go forth and do what countless people before them have? People have existed and led fulfilling lives without "being ready" in the Amarrian sense. Did your people need to be cultivated as such? If not then how can you be sure you don't need to be in chains next to them. This faith you have seems to have a clause that omits you all from your own rules. Maybe I just don't get it. But I'm sure its not hard to have faith in a system that doesn't apply to you. Apologetics are not my field, however since you ask this in a more reasonable manner than some would.. I will do my best to answer. Yes, the Amarrian people did go though such a transition. At one time we were not much different from the Matari in spriritual maturity. We did not, however, have the benefit of guides. It was a terrible and bloody period for us. Our pre space history and the Scriptures record this well. We stumbled, at times horrifically, at a cost of millions of lives. This period of development was just as Amarrians United Athra and renamed it Amarr. Personally I still call it Athra, to remember the long and hard journey our people took to get even to that point. I have said that the process of reclaimation is a personal AND cultural one. For us the latter part was horrible and the rulers of the time decreed that other cultures should not have to wander blindly as we did, thus with divine inspiration the Holder Houses were blessed and charged with this sacred duty. To be the guides that we did not have . If I have erred in this summary of our history, forgive me... Again apologetics is not my area.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 75	Posted - 2015.09.03 06:14:48 - [103] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Your bitterness shows in your willful ignorance. The Empire has not taken new slaves since before you were conceived, those kept now by Holders are 8th generation or lower. Shaddam Daphiti wrote: The child of a slave is a slave at birth, reclaimation is as much a cultural process as it is personal. So which is it? Are there slaves of the 8th generation whose children are slaves, and thus, slaves of the 9th generation? And no, those prisoners don't have a choice regarding 'indenture'. You know perfectly well that Empress Jamyl I, at peace now with God, released All slaves of the 9th generation or higher. That time has passed enough for another generation to be born does not change the meaning of my words. Those are of a new era. From the view of a heathen it might well seem that a prisoner or convict has the same standing as a slave, I can assure you that this is not in fact the case. A prisoner is paying pennace, a slave is being taught. At this time, little bee, It seems clear to me that you do not want to listen to reason and I haven't the patience for a soul interested only in conflict. It would suit you best to go find another garden.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2372	Posted - 2015.09.03 08:32:58 - [104] - Quote Slaves are paying penance. Slaves are prisoners, and prisoners are slaves. The two are not different things, save in time since the original crime. A prisoner, a slave of the first generation, is the direct orchestrater of the act, and his punishment is highest. But sin is etched in blood, from the great apostasy of our ancestors, to simple murder or thievery. The prisoner, the slave, is interred to punish them for their crimes in a way that also allows them to contribute to society. They are guided as well to salvation, of course, but part of achieving salvation is in acknowledging and paying off the crime that was committed. The greater the crime, the greater the taint that must be cleansed. There are, today, slaves of 9th generation. Her Imperial Majesty released those of 9th and higher on a one-time basis. Any slave born of an 8th generation couple is, of course, a new 9th generation. And new slaves are still taken. It is a punishment for crimes. Remember the Refusards, who denied Her Imperial Majesty's emancipation edict and whose families were enslaved for their defiance. Remember the Grand Admiral of the Ammatar, whose incompetence during the Elder War saw him and his family enslaved and placed in the service of the Lord Arim Ardishapur. Remember those prisoners of war taken from Matari aggressors, who CONCORD regulations permit us to enslave as punishment for their invasion of our sovereign space. The True Amarr did not need the same as other races, because the True Amarr never abandoned God. They are the Chosen people of God because they never denied him as the apostate races did. They are still human, and still capable of sin, and must still prove their worth to God, but to be "True" is to have never fallen, and that is a title that persists only so long as the Amarr maintains his faith to God. There are those of Athran ancestry who have fallen, who have been enslaved and are no better than the other apostate races. But they are not True, because to fall even once is to forever taint your bloodline with the great sin. Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor "Reclaim our Empire"
Nauplius Hoi Andrapodistai 501	Posted - 2015.09.03 11:44:58 - [105] - Quote God in his infinite mercy has provided a way for those of fallen bloodlines to cleanse themselves and their descendants from sin. He wrote it in the Apocryphon for those who could interpret it. I have told you all many times what to do. Sacrifice the Minmatar unto a holy and righteous God. Fill the golden vial of the Sani Sabik with their blood. Repeat as necessary. How merciful is our God. Amen. Amarr Victor.
Maria Daphiti PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 72	Posted - 2015.09.03 16:01:38 - [106] - Quote Nauplius wrote: God in his infinite mercy has provided a way for those of fallen bloodlines to cleanse themselves and their descendants from sin. He wrote it in the Apocryphon for those who could interpret it. I have told you all many times what to do. Sacrifice the Minmatar unto a holy and righteous God. Fill the golden vial of the Sani Sabik with their blood. Repeat as necessary. How merciful is our God. Amen. Amarr Victor. Also: Bwahahahahahahah.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 75	Posted - 2015.09.03 16:21:17 - [107] - Quote Here we see another reason I don't do apologetics Views are very diverse and such attempts often just lead to everyone and their aunt trying to have their own say... even in someone else's journal.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1396	Posted - 2015.09.03 17:24:09 - [108] - Quote Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you don't want people responding, then perhaps the journal shouldn't be someplace that invites it?
Neph Operation Meatshield Plexodus 86	Posted - 2015.09.03 17:25:53 - [109] - Quote It'd be interesting if for once somebody developed a religion where somebody else were the Chosen People who had Never Strayed From The Faith. I admit, I felt uplifted reading the opening pages of your journal. You seemed filled with a spirit of peace and grace. Where you listed the Sins of Amarr I hoped that maybe I would have found a religious Ammarian that I could actually discourse with without being told my place was enslavement. But I kept reading and well, I guess that was too good to be true. The theology of the Reclaiming is something I could never buy. What's your defense against me believing in your religion, except it states the Matari are the chosen, close to God's heart, and all others need purification by enslavement? "It is one of the greatest tragedies of our time that the Caldari and the Matari have found themselves as enemies..."
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 77	Posted - 2015.09.03 18:03:23 - [110] - Quote Neph wrote: It'd be interesting if for once somebody developed a religion where somebody else were the Chosen People who had Never Strayed From The Faith. I admit, I felt uplifted reading the opening pages of your journal. You seemed filled with a spirit of peace and grace. Where you listed the Sins of Amarr I hoped that maybe I would have found a religious Ammarian that I could actually discourse with without being told my place was enslavement. But I kept reading and well, I guess that was too good to be true. The theology of the Reclaiming is something I could never buy. What's your defense against me believing in your religion, except it states the Matari are the chosen, close to God's heart, and all others need purification by enslavement? A few things here; Firstly I will point out dangers and sin where I see them, be that among the pagans or in my own back yard. No one, save the divine Emperor and theology council , is immune from critique. Secondly, what part of the idea that Man has fallen from God and must work to be reclaimed to their original position do you have issue with? I am not judging you to be in need of a Holder's guidance, I have never said that. I have said that Some are at a point where without such guidance there would be a multiplication of their suffering. I respectfully Disagree with Samira Kernher's position that Amarr never fell. I find that to be in contradiction to reality. That Amarr was first to rise does not make them superior, but it places on us a responsibility to those who have not or have only just begin. Finally, I do not need to offer any such 'defense', I would respond by asking where your support is. The Amarr history and scriptures are so vast and complete that they cannot be contained in a single book or even a single building.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 77	Posted - 2015.09.03 18:11:48 - [111] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Not to put too fine a point on it, but if you don't want people responding, then perhaps the journal shouldn't be someplace that invites it? You seem to be greatly in the habit of placing words that were never spoken, I never said it was unwelcome... simply that it was a reason I do not go into apologetics. There are numerous accounts here on the IGS's archives of 'threads' hijacked because of such things, I simply wish to minimize that here where possible.
Neph Operation Meatshield Plexodus 86	Posted - 2015.09.03 18:15:16 - [112] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Secondly, what part of the idea that Man has fallen from God and must work to be reclaimed to their original position do you have issue with? The fact that the process of reclamation, through the 'guidance' of a holder, involves the nonconsensual enslavement of you, your children, and all your ancestors unless somebody mercifully frees the ninth generation down. "It is one of the greatest tragedies of our time that the Caldari and the Matari have found themselves as enemies..."
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1397	Posted - 2015.09.03 18:25:41 - [113] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: You seem to be greatly in the habit of placing words that were never spoken, I never said it was unwelcome... simply that it was a reason I do not go into apologetics. I apologize, then - it did seem strongly implied.
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 77	Posted - 2015.09.03 18:43:48 - [114] - Quote Neph wrote: Shaddam Daphiti wrote: Secondly, what part of the idea that Man has fallen from God and must work to be reclaimed to their original position do you have issue with? The fact that the process of reclamation, through the 'guidance' of a holder, involves the nonconsensual enslavement of you, your children, and all your ancestors unless somebody mercifully frees the ninth generation down. Learning to walk is a painful process, it is even more painful without the hand of a parent. I have said before that there are some who enjoy applying the lash too much, it is unfortunate that these few have become the stereotype when they are not in fact the norm. It does not help when heretics and heathens take slaves and abuse them in public view as is the manner of nauplius and the Angel Cartel.
Deitra Vess Hounds of War. Hashashin Cartel 632	Posted - 2015.09.03 21:42:23 - [115] - Quote Shaddam Daphiti wrote: ...Yes, the Amarrian people did go though such a transition. At one time we were not much different from the Matari in spriritual maturity. We did not, however, have the benefit of guides. It was a terrible and bloody period for us. Our pre space history and the Scriptures record this well. We stumbled, at times horrifically, at a cost of millions of lives. This period of development was just as Amarrians United Athra and renamed it Amarr. Personally I still call it Athra, to remember the long and hard journey our people took to get even to that point. I have said that the process of reclaimation is a personal AND cultural one. For us the latter part was horrible and the rulers of the time decreed that other cultures should not have to wander blindly as we did, thus with divine inspiration the Holder Houses were blessed and charged with this sacred duty. To be the guides that we did not have... Well first off thanks for a reasonable response, though the question this raises however is why is this never talked about? You would think that having gone through similar hardships that you burden others with you would consider your own plight as more than just a mere footnote in history. If it is not as big as your message you are trying to preach then wouldn't it be safe to say that these other cultures, like the Khanid, Matari, or Ammatari who were indoctrinated under your faith couldn't have come to the same conclusion as you did and become enlightened? Samira Kernher wrote: Slaves are paying penance. Slaves are prisoners, and prisoners are slaves. The two are not different things, save in time since the original crime. A prisoner, a slave of the first generation, is the direct orchestrater of the act, and his punishment is highest. But sin is etched in blood, from the great apostasy of our ancestors, to simple murder or thievery. The prisoner, the slave, is interred to punish them for their crimes in a way that also allows them to contribute to society. They are guided as well to salvation, of course, but part of achieving salvation is in acknowledging and paying off the crime that was committed. The greater the crime, the greater the taint that must be cleansed... ...The True Amarr did not need the same as other races, because the True Amarr never abandoned God. They are the Chosen people of God because they never denied him as the apostate races did. They are still human, and still capable of sin, and must still prove their worth to God, but to be "True" is to have never fallen, and that is a title that persists only so long as the Amarr maintains his faith to God. There are those of Athran ancestry who have fallen, who have been enslaved and are no better than the other apostate races. But they are not True, because to fall even once is to forever taint your bloodline with the great sin. What crime exactly did our people actually commit? For being unaware of a religion popping up light years away? How is this warranting children being born into this to suffer? They would have known it their whole life if they were born into servitude so shouldn't the emancipation happen for second generation slaves? To go further into this, what's the point of being brought back into his light if they will never be truly in it? I really must be missing something at this point but its close to echoing Nauplius in, "you will work until you die or you can kill yourself but you'll never be close to god. You only exist to glorify him." Please explain how that's not true since I really don't want to believe that.
Samira Kernher Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2372	Posted - 2015.09.04 02:59:00 - [116] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: What crime exactly did our people actually commit? For being unaware of a religion popping up light years away? How is this warranting children being born into this to suffer? They would have known it their whole life if they were born into servitude so shouldn't the emancipation happen for second generation slaves? To go further into this, what's the point of being brought back into his light if they will never be truly in it? I really must be missing something at this point but its close to echoing Nauplius in, "you will work until you die or you can kill yourself but you'll never be close to god. You only exist to glorify him." Please explain how that's not true since I really don't want to believe that. We weren't unaware. All humanity comes from the same place, and we all followed God once. But they abandoned God and that leaves a taint that has to be cleansed. The crime was apostasy, the worst crime. Emancipation doesn't happen at second generation because it's not about conversion, it's about working off the sins in our blood and proving that our lineage is responsible enough to be able to live free lives without turning from God again. "Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away." - His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor "Reclaim our Empire"
Shaddam Daphiti Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 78	Posted - 2015.09.04 03:39:51 - [117] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Well first off thanks for a reasonable response, though the question this raises however is why is this never talked about?. My instinct is to say that it is probably seldom asked. I imagine it is mentioned at least in passing by some Holders to those in their care. Such a question is more likely to come up under that setting. The Majority of the time, however, people would rather assume than ask.
Lyn Farel Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque 1403	Posted - 2015.09.04 19:16:39 - [118] - Quote Deitra Vess wrote: Willfully ignorant? Ignorant when it involves Amarrian, well, anything, yes. Willfully? I'm more than willing to hear about who I fight, the problem? Most questions I ask are met with reiteration of my question or "my faith says so," followed by some fancy words and then some name and number. If not that then sarcasm. Really there is only one person of your faith who (more than likely sarcastically) explained a question I've asked in a way that actually made me stop and think. So I will ask if it doesn't offer "upliftment" or whatever, if its not an economic move why does it still exist? Eighth gen, seventh gen or newly enslaved is irrelevant. It is a tool of cultural conversion, nothing more, nothing less... Then of course, it is a sacred duty to Amarr since it is Scripture. Scriptures says that eventually, everyone should be united under God. In religious terms, it is upliftment. It is finding back the path of the Divine that everyone bar the True Amarr lost long ago. The end of the journey of course, is Heaven. Deitra Vess wrote: So, they're not ready to go forth and do what countless people before them have? People have existed and led fulfilling lives without "being ready" in the Amarrian sense. Did your people need to be cultivated as such? If not then how can you be sure you don't need to be in chains next to them. This faith you have seems to have a clause that omits you all from your own rules. Maybe I just don't get it. But I'm sure its not hard to have faith in a system that doesn't apply to you. This is precisely because Scripturally speaking, the True Amarr are the only ones that never went astray of God's path. To speak more pragmatically in a more secular way, True Amarr culture and ideals prevail, because they follow the path of the Divine. Why does they follow the path of the Divine ? Because they defined that path through hardship, and continue to do so with the help of all the Reclaimed. The same way that the Gallente believe that democracy should prevail, the Amarr believe that the true Faith should prevail. It is, strictly speaking, believing that one's own beliefs are superior, and should be brought to everyone else. And, in the end, the higher up an individual is (like a True Amarr), the higher the fall can be. The system in a way, actually applies to everyone. Deitra Vess wrote: What crime exactly did our people actually commit? For being unaware of a religion popping up light years away? How is this warranting children being born into this to suffer? They would have known it their whole life if they were born into servitude so shouldn't the emancipation happen for second generation slaves? To go further into this, what's the point of being brought back into his light if they will never be truly in it? I really must be missing something at this point but its close to echoing Nauplius in, "you will work until you die or you can kill yourself but you'll never be close to god. You only exist to glorify him." Please explain how that's not true since I really don't want to believe that. Ms Kerhner already provided the Scriptural answer, so in a more secular way, that should translate again into cultural assimilation. In every nation, cultural assimilation happens (and in both ways!). The Matari immigrates living in the Federation for example are already very different from their own cousins in the Republic. With each generation, they slowly acquire more and more of the local culture, the same way they can colour that local culture with their own they bring with them. A similar process can be observed in the Ammatar Mandate, which can sometimes be a blend of Matari and Amarr culture (the Ammatar Church, the local languages and traditions, things like the Cultural Recess, etc). Well... such things take far more than a single generation. In layman's terms, it means that for cultural assimilation to happen, it might require many decades or centuries, depending on the willingness of the individual, and its malleability. It is not just true for the Amarr, but for every nation. It is also true for children on a more local scale. It is also childhood, at every generational step, where the most progress is done (or sometimes, recess happens). Now then, I have heard and read that people wonder what would be the point to convert since they will probably not be cleansed of their impurity in the first generation. Well, that is a typical individualist point of view, where the Amarr tend to reason more in terms of lineage and families. What is most important in Amarr, is not the self, but the family, something not so dissimilar with the Matari clan structure. Many also believe that once the family has atoned, its individuals that never emancipated (the sinners and heretics excepted), are also atoned. Some hardliners though, consider that they are a necessary waste. I uh... hope that answers the questions... I tried to do it the best I could.

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