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Vying for territory a dead concept?

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Angela Toren Amarr Toren Shipyards	Posted - 2006.12.05 16:46:00 - [1] Are there any expansionalist entities left in EVE? By this I mean alliances or corporations that want nothing more than to assimilate and own as much 0.0 as possible. Fights for a while now seem to be more about killboard tallying and just general hurting your foe rather than taking thier space for yourself. Perhaps the reason is due to the fact that there is not much disparity between 0.0 regions besides npcs thus making them unattractive to fight for and too much a hassle to hold? If each region was truely unique in exploration, ore, artifacts, rare loot and drops, would you be more interested in territorial warfare?
Elisca Black Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:03:00 - [2] Nice Region, We'll take it.
Nekumi Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:12:00 - [3] There are expansionist wars constantly throughout 0.0 regions. The North is pretty quiet but the South is ablaze right now. It's actually rarer for things to be quiet than not.
Drusus Rensus Gallente Four Rings Myriad Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:12:00 - [4] I hope not. I'm relatively new, and just got out to 0.0 space recently, but even in the short while I've been out here, I can see clearly that some of the larger alliances already have way more territory than they really care about, or could hope to utilize. So you conquer a region, and then another, and then what? Lots of systems with little or nothing going on. Lots of resources that just sit. I can appreciate that it's fun to wage war, but if you're just doing it for the sake of doing it (i.e. there really isn't any economic or ideological motivation involved) it just turns the landscape (space-scape?) into a mostly empty NBSI wasteland. That's my 2 isk, for what it's worth.
Laythun Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:15:00 - [5] Originally by: Drusus Rensus I hope not. I'm relatively new, and just got out to 0.0 space recently, but even in the short while I've been out here, I can see clearly that some of the larger alliances already have way more territory than they really care about, or could hope to utilize. So you conquer a region, and then another, and then what? Lots of systems with little or nothing going on. Lots of resources that just sit. I can appreciate that it's fun to wage war, but if you're just doing it for the sake of doing it (i.e. there really isn't any economic or ideological motivation involved) it just turns the landscape (space-scape?) into a mostly empty NBSI wasteland. That's my 2 isk, for what it's worth. war for the sake of war is the foundation of our civilisation. CEI's own Undercover Brother It's great being Amarr, aint it?Ö
Sochin Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:17:00 - [6] Is this a trick question? <------------------------------------ Nemo me impune lacessit
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:35:00 - [7] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 05/12/2006 17:40:23 Resources haven't been a contraint to population in Eve so far, and most probably it'll take alot for them ever to become so. We're talking pure high end resources here ofc, you don't need 0.0 for the veldspar but for the arkonor, high end complexes and faction spawns. The best bit of that pie is mostly cut up now, but there's still plenty of room for more population that uses the leftover bits. The problme however is in coordination and organisation. Keeping control over large populations is mroe difficult then getting the population is. And without control your little empire crumbles. So, there's room, especially seeing regions which still have relatively few outposts. But the problem isn't that the room isn't used, it's that there's no people to use it for since you don't neccesarily want a 5000 member alliance just to use the resources. Many people make the mistake of seeign resources as the objective. They're just a tool like any other however. The goal is more likely to be control and reputation rather then isk. Isk in itself doesn't equal fun, as most people find out once they get some experience in this game. So, in general, yeah, there's wars for resources. But those are mostly limited in duration and scope, and tend to only be about the very best bits of space. The other, more widespread and high-impact wars are waged for ideology and fun, not resources. Edit: and yes, the 8 new regions make no sense no. IF there's something we didn't need it's more resources, since the currently available ones were enough to potentially feed the total eve population easily. Old blog
Raste Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.05 17:42:00 - [8] I think the concept is good, its the implementation thats gone wrong. If the server could handle alliance scale fleet warfare there'd be way less dissatisfaction with the current system.
Resipsa Loquitor Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.05 18:55:00 - [9] Edited by: Resipsa Loquitor on 05/12/2006 19:01:14 Originally by: Drusus Rensus I hope not. I'm relatively new, and just got out to 0.0 space recently, but even in the short while I've been out here, I can see clearly that some of the larger alliances already have way more territory than they really care about, or could hope to utilize. So you conquer a region, and then another, and then what? Lots of systems with little or nothing going on. Lots of resources that just sit. I can appreciate that it's fun to wage war, but if you're just doing it for the sake of doing it (i.e. there really isn't any economic or ideological motivation involved) it just turns the landscape (space-scape?) into a mostly empty NBSI wasteland. That's my 2 isk, for what it's worth. Unfortunately, you're also missing another, more subtle reason for holding and gaining territory: denying others access to it. By taking away resources from your enemy or from others that might become stronger and rival you, you prevent them from challenging you now and in the future. For example - BoB taking Paragon Soul and Esoteria. Sure, BoB could have sent fleet after fleet after fleet every single day into ASCN space and crushed their fleet over and over and over. But, inbetween the battles, the miners and industrialists would creep out, get resources, fuel towers, and bring the goodies back. The factories would then fire up and make more ships. By taking the territory, they've starting to choak off those resource inputs, which will eventually starve the factories as material becomes more scarce and hard decisions have to be made as to what to produce next and more extreme (i.e., risky) measures for getting materials become accepted. Another example - 10/10 complexes. HUGE money and items to be gathered. Getting in there and denying someone the ability to harvest its resources as well as costing them ships in defending it is a tactical victory. Getting to run the 10/10 yourself is lagniappe. Denial might not be the great victory that everyone seeks, but it is a victory nonetheless. It might be the most sinister of victories too - starve your opponent slowly to death. In fact, the best RL example I can think of right now is patent law: doesn't give you the right to succeed or profit from your invention, but it does give you the right to deny others the creation and use of your invention. That's where it's power comes from - the right to deny. Res - It speaks for itself
Emrod Amarr Legion Du Lys Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2006.12.05 20:02:00 - [10] Nice Galaxy,We'll take it.
Amon 'Chakai FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.05 20:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Angela Toren Are there any expansionalist entities left in EVE? By this I mean alliances or corporations that want nothing more than to assimilate and own as much 0.0 as possible. Fights for a while now seem to be more about killboard tallying and just general hurting your foe rather than taking thier space for yourself. Perhaps the reason is due to the fact that there is not much disparity between 0.0 regions besides npcs thus making them unattractive to fight for and too much a hassle to hold? If each region was truely unique in exploration, ore, artifacts, rare loot and drops, would you be more interested in territorial warfare? There's no point in major expansion unless you get some people who are friendly to hold it and can actually hold it.. without being crushed few weeks later. Everyone wants a friendly neighbour.. and preferably one front where to fight a bit.. thou yeps it's more about kb's I gues in that one front unless you have all those extra people who needs home.. and that way getting a goal for pvp. ??====??====??====??====??====??====??====??====??==?? If eve even makes close up to 60-70k+ dollars per day as budget.. they could throw about 140k-300k easily to hardware upgrade once per year.
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.05 21:00:00 - [12] POS wars make conquering territory a VERY painful process. When fighting a war to take conquerable space, it takes a MASSIVE commitment of resources, even against a single station. Many are not immediately able or willing to commit what is necessary. As per the reason many wars are fought? Its not over resources generally, usually its some political slight or a competition over power and influence. Take recently the ASCN vs BOB war. BOB prides itself on being top dog, and I am willing to beleive that they saw ASCN as an annoying runner up and wanted to prove the point that they were best. And so, they went after the meatiest (and convenient) target. Plus, PVP is far more interesting if there is a point to it. Capturing regions strokes the ego quite nicely. My personal prediciton is the North is going to either explode in really ugly flames sometime relatively soon, else there is going to be a massive invasion by them somewhere. They get an ok share of combat in raiding parties but everyone loves a good invasion and I don't think they have been carebearing for a couple months straight for no particular reason. Generally the rule with EVE is, if it looks too quiet, wait a few months. The galaxy will explode in total war again yet. Fear is the mind-killer.
Eternal Fury Shadow Of The Light Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.05 21:26:00 - [13] Some day I would like to see a corp/alliance that is large enough, and good enough at PvP, to basically have no home, just roam around the map. Spending a week in each region or so. Slowly circleing the map about once a year. Feeding off the land, like Locusts. On the alliance map you'd see a new icon that says "Here there be XXXX." To inform people that corp/alliance is there. Eternal Fury Shadow Of The Light .SOL.
Cloue Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2006.12.05 22:02:00 - [14] Edited by: Cloue on 05/12/2006 22:04:25 Edited by: Cloue on 05/12/2006 22:03:53 ^^ Your talking about 0utbreak right If im right i think they have started from fountain and have worked their way cloak wise around the map, being at 12 o'cloak atm
Rodge Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.05 23:34:00 - [15] Originally by: Eternal Fury Some day I would like to see a corp/alliance that is large enough, and good enough at PvP, to basically have no home, just roam around the map. Spending a week in each region or so. Slowly circleing the map about once a year. Feeding off the land, like Locusts. As mentioned, Outbreak are the best example of this. High dedication, highly skilled, highly organised, they're actually a great group of guys to fight against! They have no political agenda, just to have fun. They're a perfect example of what you're talking about. I'd have said that E-R were another example, but they formed an alliance and claimed space up near Geminate I believe. Sig inappropriate-not eve related -Abdalion [ 2005.04.17 00:34:30 ] Nagilam > u better leave Rodge, u will not gank any1 else 2nite......
Kasak Black The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2006.12.05 23:43:00 - [16] Originally by: Angela Toren Are there any expansionalist entities left in EVE? By this I mean alliances or corporations that want nothing more than to assimilate and own as much 0.0 as possible. I think BOB do this pretty well. I look at the alliance maps of ye old and they slowly expanded. Now they are in that Paragin soul place but I dunno. What were you thinking of? An Alliance a bit like the BORG from star trek?
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.06 00:58:00 - [17] delve remains their home and they have populated their borders with at the very least friendly leaning non troublesem enemies ( D2 is doing the same up north) These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer

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