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Suzanne Devereux	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:13:00 - [1] So now flks can scan easily for wrecks and start salvaging your mission whilst you are trying to complete it. Wrecks should be treated like looting cans. There are many on tonight who are homing in on folks missions and talking all the wrecks that have no loot. This is BAD news for mission runners. If you attack them you get concorded. CCP ! What gives ?
Derelyk	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:19:00 - [2] well, just wait till they fire one round at every rat group in the mission, and then warp out. or, steal the mission objective, and force you to abandon the mission. that'll give ya' something to yell about.
Telemicus Thrace Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:20:00 - [3] Originally by: Suzanne Devereux So now flks can scan easily for wrecks and start salvaging your mission whilst you are trying to complete it. Wrecks should be treated like looting cans. There are many on tonight who are homing in on folks missions and talking all the wrecks that have no loot. This is BAD news for mission runners. If you attack them you get concorded. CCP ! What gives ? The loot is yours. If they take the loot they get flagged. Salvage by it's very definition is a free for all. Whoever gets the salvage ship to it first gets the salvage. Get a corp mate to follow you on the mission in a salvage ship or just accept that in the world of scrap metal and duct tape recovery it's the world of the quick. If salvagers get a flag on them then nobody will bother risking salvaging in high sec and you'll end up with more litter and lag. >> RECRUITING <<
Marlenus Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:27:00 - [4] LOL, that's not grief, it's gameplay. Mission space is no longer your private storage locker. I'm not sure it ever should have been, but no matter; it isn't now. Just a few months ago many missions were at stargates, and folks left huge canstellations of loot cans there. That's where I got my start as a salvager. This is just a return to those circumstances.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:27:00 - [5] Counters are already partially in place, they can't salvage a wreck that has loot in it without removing the loot first.... Salvage is just that: Broken things that don't belong to anyone. You don't "own" the ships you blew up but CCP is being nice and making sure you get your just rewards by not allowing others to take the loot. <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests.... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=426616 LowSec != NoSec
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:27:00 - [6] the OP is one of these lazy buggers that isnt in a player corp and as such ( i think i dropped in on him to i annouyed about 40-50 mission runners yesterday - the amount of smack was fun good to see they cant hide in NPC corps anymore) and most of em tho leave wrecks - loot etc so its fair game its within the rules either adapt continue to whine or leave and send me youre stuff These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
trimdonite	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:32:00 - [7] well i agree with the part about it bing a free for all, but those who are just warping in to steal the loot which completes the mission or to make the spawn agress, then thats just plain sad and griefing
NocturnalDeath Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:36:00 - [8] Edited by: NocturnalDeath on 06/12/2006 01:39:17 Edited by: NocturnalDeath on 06/12/2006 01:36:59 WarDec them... Oh wait.. Your in an NPC corp... Start/Join a corp then wardec them... Then you can shoot them all you want..
Ariel Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:43:00 - [9] Huh? You're whining that someone comes into your mission, kills rats for you AND cleans up your mission space at the same time? Shouldn't you be jumping for joy? Oh teh noes, stop the meanies from making me have faster missions and getting tons more LP! I mean, WTF?
Suzanne Devereux	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:49:00 - [10] They are not killing rats but waiting for the wrecks and then salvaging....... War dec from a noob corp ? lol yeah! Create a corp and wardec a noob corp ? lol yeah! Dont people think before replying ?
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:52:00 - [11] Salvage = fair game, by definition. Your loot is still protected by the kill-rights system, and they can't salvage anything that still has loot in. So nothing much has changed, really. -----------------------------------------------
NocturnalDeath Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:55:00 - [12] Originally by: Suzanne Devereux They are not killing rats but waiting for the wrecks and then salvaging....... War dec from a noob corp ? lol yeah! Create a corp and wardec a noob corp ? lol yeah! Dont people think before replying ? Go run your missions outside hi-sec and you can kill them all you wan't. There are PLENTY of existing game mechanics to thwart this. another: wait til he is finished salvaging, suicide a ship to kill his.
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:56:00 - [13] Originally by: Suzanne Devereux They are not killing rats but waiting for the wrecks and then salvaging....... War dec from a noob corp ? lol yeah! Create a corp and wardec a noob corp ? lol yeah! Dont people think before replying ? stop whining and go play wow These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Nicolae Rasputin Amarr House Jin Rei	Posted - 2006.12.06 03:16:00 - [14] As an avid mission runner I have NO problem with them coming for the salvage. At this point I am not focusing on a salavage-runner so they are more than welcome to it. Hell, it saves me from having to waste ammo to blow things up. I am compulsive about not leaving crap floating from my missions. If there's crap in a can I didn't want, I blew it up. If someone else wants to come in clean up the salavage from my missions (as long as they don't do what some of these chumpasses are doing and stealing mission-critical cans) they are more than welcome to it. Hell, I will even advertise the crap for them and give them Mapquest directions to the wrecks.
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.06 03:23:00 - [15] If someone warps into you mission and starts salvaging, just warp out. Who do you think the remaining NPCs will now target. Once you've reloaded and recharged your tank - warp back in. You may even get to salvage the ninja salvager's wreck. In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.06 03:27:00 - [16] I still think can flagging is a silly mechanic. If you want to unleash your guns to protect something you think is yours...go somewhere that lets you. ~Thor Xian, Material Administrator "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Nicolae Rasputin Amarr House Jin Rei	Posted - 2006.12.06 03:30:00 - [17] The only REAL concern with someone warping in on you in the middle of your mission is if they kill your mission-critical target. So warping out doesn't work either. If you're supposed to blow up the NPC hauler and scoop up it's content and you allow them to do so, you'll then be flagged for taking their can. Now, I've not tried it so I dunno. How is this working with missions with multiple zones (ie- Angel Extrevaganza) where someone in your own gang couldn't warp directly to you because of "warp distubrance"? Are these salavagers suddenly able to ignore all "dead space" and warp right in anywhere they please? If it becomes some major problem I don't see it being such a hard thing to implement the overall "warp disturbance" of deadspace that inhibits someone from warping into your mission. Hell, if I can't MWD in there they shouldn't be able to warp 0km to me and my targets/wrecks. If I am leaving wrecks behind AFTER completing a mission then I think they ARE free game. Hell, that's more than half of what the idea of being a roaming salavager is about. Like I said, if someone wants my wrecks after I am done with the missions they are welcome to them. Personally, I hate spending more time cleaning up the goods from a mission than I did killing the targets. Call me crazy.
Nicolae Rasputin Amarr House Jin Rei	Posted - 2006.12.06 03:37:00 - [18] Originally by: Thor Xian I still think can flagging is a silly mechanic. If you want to unleash your guns to protect something you think is yours...go somewhere that lets you. Bad thought process. I mean, EVE is a Simulator, so if someone comes to my house or my neighborhood in the real world I rely on the Police to track them down. The operative words in that sentence are "TRACK THEM DOWN". Sure, I will give it to you that we should be in the outerspace badlands if we feel the needs to be able to gun people down for any reason...if CONCORD starts tracking down criminals instead of giving them 15 minutes of doom. I mean, in our real world we live in the cops don't look for a murderer for 15 minutes then give up because he "logged out". Since there's a very limited system of "EVE Controlled" crime and punishment it is left in the hands of the players. If you come steal my stuff, I shoot you. If you broke into my house, I shoot you. Are you trying to tell me you think that people should be able to STEAL in Empire Space but only be able to be SHOT AT in 0.4 or under? That makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine.
syphurous Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.06 03:47:00 - [19] After you finish a mission, the wrecks remain, the same as cans. This is when a salavager should be able to locate them not while I'm flying round trying to keep my ship in one piece and destroy the rats. . ------------------------- Rats, Rats The Magical Fruit, The More You Pop, The More You Loot !
Efour Amarr Matari Shipworks	Posted - 2006.12.06 04:00:00 - [20] I have never understood the mentality of these forums average poster. Its like 7 years of UO destroyed their brains and social skills. If a salvager warps into my mission and starts doing it willy nilly ill say "excuse me but wtf are you doing?" If a salvager warps into my mission and says "hello Efour Mind if i clean up some of this junk?" Id be like "sure why not thanks for asking and saving all this forum whine, and you do what you want this is EVE BS that so many of you forum warriors come out with" Just war dec! Carebear noob mission runners aint safe no more! FFA its salvage, Get some fing social skills and manners and ask. 99% of people dont give a rats ass about this stupid salavage system- Christ id rather buy a Rig than spend 100s of game hours looting the junk needed to buy it.
Aphotic Raven Gallente Spectral Armada Eternal Empire	Posted - 2006.12.06 04:11:00 - [21] Originally by: Suzanne Devereux So now flks can scan easily for wrecks and start salvaging your mission whilst you are trying to complete it. Wrecks should be treated like looting cans. There are many on tonight who are homing in on folks missions and talking all the wrecks that have no loot. This is BAD news for mission runners. If you attack them you get concorded. CCP ! What gives ? omg shut up... missions need nerfing, and salvage is a proffesion like any other... miners mine rocks... salvagers salvage wrecks... they should NOT get killed for it... and they have to scan you out while you're in your mission because the ded gates vanish when you hand in the mission. Go to 0.0 or hell, go to low sec and run missions if you want to kill them. OR go mine... and not into a jet can... then your crap is safe. now be quite carebear one. Quote: Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be **ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ***** nerf. True story
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2006.12.06 04:43:00 - [22] Originally by: Deor, steal the mission objective, and force you to abandon the mission. that'll give ya' something to yell about.[/quote When the above happens, you petition them, then they get to yell as a GM pwns them. Nicking mission objectives and screwing a mission runner over is a nono as I recall. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.06 04:50:00 - [23] here is a hint u can insta warp to mission runner by tracking drones instead of their ship its more accurate These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.06 04:57:00 - [24] Originally by: Nicolae Rasputin Originally by: Thor Xian I still think can flagging is a silly mechanic. If you want to unleash your guns to protect something you think is yours...go somewhere that lets you. Bad thought process. I mean, EVE is a Simulator, so if someone comes to my house or my neighborhood in the real world I rely on the Police to track them down. The operative words in that sentence are "TRACK THEM DOWN". Sure, I will give it to you that we should be in the outerspace badlands if we feel the needs to be able to gun people down for any reason...if CONCORD starts tracking down criminals instead of giving them 15 minutes of doom. I mean, in our real world we live in the cops don't look for a murderer for 15 minutes then give up because he "logged out". Since there's a very limited system of "EVE Controlled" crime and punishment it is left in the hands of the players. If you come steal my stuff, I shoot you. If you broke into my house, I shoot you. Are you trying to tell me you think that people should be able to STEAL in Empire Space but only be able to be SHOT AT in 0.4 or under? That makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. In the real world, being a vigilante is illegal. ~Thor Xian, Chief Administrator "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Shameless Avenger	Posted - 2006.12.06 05:01:00 - [25] As I see it: Missioning is one thing, Salvaging is something else. Looting IS part of Missioning, Salvaging IS NOT. If you want to do them all at the same time, get a corp mate to salvage your kills.
Kedar Lwmys Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.06 05:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Thor Xian I still think can flagging is a silly mechanic. If you want to unleash your guns to protect something you think is yours...go somewhere that lets you. I agree, make it impossible for people to take stuff that isn't theirs in empire. :)
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.06 05:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Kedar Lwmys Originally by: Thor Xian I still think can flagging is a silly mechanic. If you want to unleash your guns to protect something you think is yours...go somewhere that lets you. I agree, make it impossible for people to take stuff that isn't theirs in empire. :) Which is much the same as saying eliminate looting altogether. Loot belongs to whoever you killed. So uh...no. I much prefer FFA loot rules. ~Thor Xian, Chief Administrator "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.06 05:35:00 - [28] Originally by: Kedar Lwmys Originally by: Thor Xian I still think can flagging is a silly mechanic. If you want to unleash your guns to protect something you think is yours...go somewhere that lets you. I agree, make it impossible for people to take stuff that isn't theirs in empire. :) youre just being a safe carebear expose carebears to normal itneractiveness i reckon they refuse to itneract for the most part it is a MMO after all These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Nicolae Rasputin Amarr House Jin Rei	Posted - 2006.12.06 07:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Thor Xian Originally by: Nicolae Rasputin Originally by: Thor Xian I still think can flagging is a silly mechanic. If you want to unleash your guns to protect something you think is yours...go somewhere that lets you. Bad thought process. I mean, EVE is a Simulator, so if someone comes to my house or my neighborhood in the real world I rely on the Police to track them down. The operative words in that sentence are "TRACK THEM DOWN". Sure, I will give it to you that we should be in the outerspace badlands if we feel the needs to be able to gun people down for any reason...if CONCORD starts tracking down criminals instead of giving them 15 minutes of doom. I mean, in our real world we live in the cops don't look for a murderer for 15 minutes then give up because he "logged out". Since there's a very limited system of "EVE Controlled" crime and punishment it is left in the hands of the players. If you come steal my stuff, I shoot you. If you broke into my house, I shoot you. Are you trying to tell me you think that people should be able to STEAL in Empire Space but only be able to be SHOT AT in 0.4 or under? That makes about as much sense as a screen door on a submarine. In the real world, being a vigilante is illegal. Even though I get what you mean and I agree with you, let me correct you a bit. "In the civilised world, being a vigilante is illegal." Sure, here in first world countries we rely on police forces to hunt criminals down. However, in a place like say, South Africa, ain't anyone giving a rats rear if you hunt someone down and murder them for wronging you. In Afghanistan no one is going to look twice if you kill someone for dishonouring your family. That being said I agree with people NOT being viligante being legal. I also agree with the idea that being a thief should be illegal. However, what I was getting at is that CONCORD won't hunt you down for years, with APBs and Warrants for crimes you commit. Therefore, crime and punishment is left in the hands of the player. Since CONCORD doesn't arrest someone for stealing my can, I shoot them, alot, till they die from it. I am just stating that the idea of it being fine for someone to steal loot cans being legal in Empire Space while it's illegal via Empire Law to defend what you think is yours is as stupid as it gets. What I said is that I will happily agree with you that they should remove the flagging mechanic for can theft in Empire Space...when they put a CONCORD warrant system in and said thieves randomly get beaten down and have their characters locked in internment camps for a set amount of time for doing so. However, your idea is "Let people steal cans from each other with zero risk of reprise." Not sure HOW you would plan on justifying THAT idea without saying something along the lines of "I think every player should have their God given right to ruin another players fun at any given moment and that there should be nothing to keep the checks and balances of civilised conduct in practice." Sorry, just sounds like you want everyone to move to 0.0 space to defend their goods. In the real world, if you break into my house and I shoot you...I'm not labeled a vigilante.
Ralara Caldari Reunited O X I D E	Posted - 2006.12.06 08:13:00 - [30] Someone is stealing my wrecks! So take a friend to salvage for you or join a player corp But I dont want to, I like playing solo. Then tough luck. I'll quit and take my 3 accounts with me!!! Well you don't have 3 accounts but feel free to leave anyway.null

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