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Allen Deckard Gallente LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 01:13:00 - [1] Sorry but aint no way I am flying to jita to place a stupid bid on an auction that is going to be up for 5 days. I can see ur domination warp scrambler I want to buy it but sorry not goin to jita. Why not just call it "the market" thats all it is only difference I see is I cant see the prices in other regions on the market and I can with contracts. Was it that much of an issue to let me buy in other regions?
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2006.12.06 02:04:00 - [2] I agree completley. Lost a 10mn Domination AB for 25 mill, because I was 16 jumps away and could not claim buyout. Whoever got - lucky sod!. We should be able to Bid/Buyout/Claim contracts from any region. Otherwise it is just like a market, little bit suped up, we can see the prices there but cant participate.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.06 02:17:00 - [3] I havn't really thought about it until now, but maybe you've supplied your own answer. If ypou'd been able to bid on that item in Jita, you'd have won it and headed to Jita to pick it up. Because you didn't bid, and therefor didn't win, you didn't go to Jita. As most people are unwilling to live in Jita on a permanent basis, doesn't this ensure Jita isn't a one stop insta-shop for everything in game? It's hub-busting regional markets the difficult way, but maybe thats the reasoning behind it. -----------------------------------------------
Dai007 Caldari Crabbs	Posted - 2006.12.06 02:22:00 - [4] Edited by: Dai007 on 06/12/2006 02:25:09 Being able to claim items in any region would be nice, but kinda sucky. Maybe change the contracting skill.. Quote: For each level of this skill the number of outstanding contracts is increased by three (up to a maximum of 15 at level 5) Something like... "distance of being able to claim contract increased by 1 region per level. So level 5 = 5 regions" //Edit.. or im not sure if this is already implemented i dont think so tho. Make it so you can choose how far you will allow someone to bid on it. Like buy orders...
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.06 02:24:00 - [5] The reason why people are all going to Jita (more than before) is because of regional contracts. Whenever CCP restricts something regionally, it results in global hubs such as Jita. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Clementina Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.06 02:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Dark Shikari The reason why people are all going to Jita (more than before) is because of regional contracts. Whenever CCP restricts something regionally, it results in global hubs such as Jita. Does it kill the regions that aren't Jita though, Like Rens, Oursalute, and Amarr? If so, that's kinda bad.
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.06 02:43:00 - [7] Originally by: Clementina Originally by: Dark Shikari The reason why people are all going to Jita (more than before) is because of regional contracts. Whenever CCP restricts something regionally, it results in global hubs such as Jita. Does it kill the regions that aren't Jita though, Like Rens, Oursalute, and Amarr? If so, that's kinda bad. Regional hubs will always exist, but obviously global hubs exist at their expense. -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Allen Deckard Gallente LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 03:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Patch86 I havn't really thought about it until now, but maybe you've supplied your own answer. If ypou'd been able to bid on that item in Jita, you'd have won it and headed to Jita to pick it up. Because you didn't bid, and therefor didn't win, you didn't go to Jita. As most people are unwilling to live in Jita on a permanent basis, doesn't this ensure Jita isn't a one stop insta-shop for everything in game? It's hub-busting regional markets the difficult way, but maybe thats the reasoning behind it. K first I didn't get anything cause the only one for sale at a "decient" price was jita. So 1. I lost cause I dont have what I want. 2. seller lost cause I didn't bid If I can buy the crap I want in jita without living in jita isn't that a good thing? I mean if people are willing to put up with the lag to dunp their crap there on the market so be it as long as all I gotta do is jump in get what I want and get out once a month or whatever. If I could see like the old contract system whats in all regions then np you can spread out. If I live in devoid or say Khanid is it worth putting crap on the contract system? Better question if your lookin for something is khanid the first region you look with the new contract system? second? last? not at all? Personally I dont look at all. All I see with new contract system is even more use for forums auctions unfortunately. Its a great system look good good features just break it loose let us see all items say 100 per page and have it sortable like it is now. Say only display 100 total the top 100 for what you have chosen if thats some sort of issue. And let us bid on anything in any region.
Cherilona	Posted - 2006.12.06 03:22:00 - [9] Usually I don't post to these forums because I'm an alt. But as an alt hauler, I feel that I have some insight to impart upon you all. Unlike you guys in player corps, people like me don't get war deced, and actually like flying afk for 50+ jumps, We can alt haul all of your stuff to Jita for a flat fee. We can even buy stuff from people in Jita and haul it to anywhere else in empire (but unfortunately, not to 0.0) for a low transactional rate. Only problems is sometimes pirates gank us for our phat lewtz. I know what you are thinking, I shouldn't have to alt haul my stuff around for every little thing. and I actually agree with you. the game should not be constructed so that alt hauling everything everywhere is a necessity, alt hauling should only be for those special occasions when the MC declares war on your organization. Please CCP, for us overworked alts, and us grumpy mains, fix the contract system.
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.06 04:21:00 - [10] Since when is Jita its own region? Go to something else in the Forge to bid on items in Jita. You already had to fly there to pick it up. ---------------------------- Buying Sabres. EVEmail or convo me in game!
violator2k5 Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.06 04:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Dai007 Edited by: Dai007 on 06/12/2006 02:25:09 Being able to claim items in any region would be nice, but kinda sucky. Maybe change the contracting skill.. Quote: For each level of this skill the number of outstanding contracts is increased by three (up to a maximum of 15 at level 5) Something like... "distance of being able to claim contract increased by 1 region per level. So level 5 = 5 regions" //Edit.. or im not sure if this is already implemented i dont think so tho. Make it so you can choose how far you will allow someone to bid on it. Like buy orders... if they added another contract skill for that very purpose i would gladly train it. from what ive seen so far the new contract system has practically nerfed escrow trading for that very reason. i myself barely use the contracts system now and i dont think i will unless its something that i can get double my isk on ONLY then will i be bothered to waste my time traveling to another region to place a bid / buyout
Efour Amarr Matari Shipworks	Posted - 2006.12.06 05:11:00 - [12] One day i dream of flying to Jita. Its only been 18 months ingame and still no major urges to see just how lagged it realy is.
Naro Takatsu	Posted - 2006.12.06 05:27:00 - [13] At first I thought contracts were way cool. I imagined that with the scaled down system and search by region feature it will cut down on lag and evertyhing else. Also, I would have been happy to train the skills to increase the number of contracts. Now, however, I see that the system is worthless unless you setup an actuall contract from person to person or corporation to person/corporation. There is no ability to actually search a region and then a place a bid or buyout on a public contract/escrow, unless you are located within the region the contract is. Total waste of resorses IMO, needs to be changed so anyone in any region can place a bid and buy stuff, otherwise its just silly.
Scout Instas	Posted - 2006.12.06 05:41:00 - [14] Is there a larger thread that illustrates how much this new "system" sux? I can't seem to find anything that I am looking for. In the old system it took me 5 min to find anything. Now I've got to search page after page of unnameable auctions. Here's another example of "what were they thinking?"
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.12.06 07:38:00 - [15] Nonni for all your shopping needs tbh.
Hellown Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 08:57:00 - [16] its easy, make an alt on your account, send it ISK, park it in forge. Done. Shinra, the good guys.

Oveur	Posted - 2006.12.06 09:42:00 - [17] We're considering a couple of things here, which are both specific to market and contracts. - Super-regions. Some regions are simply dead, others flourish. Group them together to make super-regions. It decreases the cross-region trading enabled by obscurity. On the other hand distance is a factor and it might decrease the high margins you find, but the volume due to increased visibility might counter this (and show sellers new market more easily. This applies to both contracts and market. - Use the market skill for the contracts like we do for market for claiming/bidding etc. - Interbus transport. Inside Constellations you can pay extra for "instantaneous" delivery, longer than that you would be offered to create a courier contract which would have insured delivery by Interbus if a player hasn't transported it within X days (insert any kind of range and criterias here, just examples). This could diffuse the single-system hubs entirely, having them on a constellation level. Now, these things aren't mutually exclusive or need to all to go in, you can think about combinations between these, tinker with ranges and criteria etc. but it's food for thought. Senior Producer EVE Online

Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.06 09:46:00 - [18] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/12/2006 09:48:20 Oveur, whats the technical and/or other reasons for not allowing people to bid on auctions from all regions? I cant remember seeing anything about that in the forums. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.12.06 10:02:00 - [19] Just make it possible to search contracts through all regions, not by only one. Then people will know that if they create the contract in their region, others can find it easily. Now everyone just creates contracts in Jita because everybody is searching in The Forge and have an alt there to claim stuff. Even global listing is not neccessary because without sorting, no one uses it anyway. Search is the only way to find interesting deals with new system...
Alitha Maru Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2006.12.06 10:03:00 - [20] Originally by: Oveur We're considering a couple of things here, which are both specific to market and contracts. - Super-regions. Some regions are simply dead, others flourish. Group them together to make super-regions. It decreases the cross-region trading enabled by obscurity. On the other hand distance is a factor and it might decrease the high margins you find, but the volume due to increased visibility might counter this (and show sellers new market more easily. This applies to both contracts and market. - Use the market skill for the contracts like we do for market for claiming/bidding etc. - Interbus transport. Inside Constellations you can pay extra for "instantaneous" delivery, longer than that you would be offered to create a courier contract which would have insured delivery by Interbus if a player hasn't transported it within X days (insert any kind of range and criterias here, just examples). This could diffuse the single-system hubs entirely, having them on a constellation level. Now, these things aren't mutually exclusive or need to all to go in, you can think about combinations between these, tinker with ranges and criteria etc. but it's food for thought. Super-regions? You mean grouping the regions themselves together, or just their markets? In either way I think this will make EVE become smaller, and I mean that in a bad-ish way. To have regions, markets or just the place, devoid of life and activity some times add to the flavor of EVE dear Oveur. It is like going to the countryside on the weekend. You know you'll meet almost no one, or maybe a farmer and his cow. And you love it. Seriously. Diversity, be it quietness, solitude or places be dead should be part of EVE. This is what makes it dynamic. If every part of EVE is a hectic place, it would not feel quite....well....EVE anymore. The galaxy is a big place, and there are bound to be dead and devoid places. Be it traffic, commerce or both. Want to make people use other and smaller devoid regions for trade? Make smaller regions offer something for this, and let it be dynamic. If a smaller devoid region gets full of traffic and commerce it loses this advantage as other smaller regions will now have it. For example, contracts in such regions could be cheaper to set up maybe even free. In the big sceme of things, this is not much but maybe an incentive for some people to try and some people to follow to see what can be saved ISK-wise. But please Oveur, for the love of all that is holy and EVE do not make super-regions. It sounds too much like super-highways and many of us remember how painful that was.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.06 10:08:00 - [21] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 06/12/2006 10:12:59 --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Zar Dim Minmatar Anus Horriblis	Posted - 2006.12.06 10:10:00 - [22] Contracts are fine You don't have to travel to Jita, to buy something via contracts. You can claim a contract from anyware in The Fore, (I assume something is lying in Jita). But you have to travel to Jita to get it. (And this remains as it was with escrow) There are 12 Empire regions, so it's pretty fast to browse them when you look for something. Especially given the ultra cool search, plus the fact that you can use contracts not only on the stations. So i repeat The Forge consists not only from Jita and you can bid from anyware.
Haffrage Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.06 10:12:00 - [23] Originally by: Zar Dim Contracts are fine You don't have to travel to Jita, to buy something via contracts. You can claim a contract from anyware in The Fore, (I assume something is lying in Jita). But you have to travel to Jita to get it. (And this remains as it was with escrow) There are 12 Empire regions, so it's pretty fast to browse them when you look for something. Especially given the ultra cool search, plus the fact that you can use contracts not only on the stations. So i repeat The Forge consists not only from Jita and you can bid from anyware. You didn't use escrow too frequently, did you? -----
Kagura Nikon	Posted - 2006.12.06 10:19:00 - [24] I think the idea is EXACLTY to remove the Jita effect. This will force to create alternative markets. A very good decision by CCP.
Hillesumos Constructive Influence	Posted - 2006.12.06 10:22:00 - [25] Dear Fellow space lane travellers and traders, The situation in Jita and the current concentration of people in trade hubbs to do deals is indeed worrisome. Let me start with the improvement that the contract system make: by limiting the numbers of contracts available it actually limit the number of spam and put a value on each single contract you make. Now if I use all my contracts and I make let say 1 M isks profit per contract and want to put a new one for 2M profits, I basically have to remove an old one and use it for this one. This also bring into line the whole system with other trading system. Now the not so good point rely on the agregation of hauling contract and of corporation contract in the same pot. I used to make lot of hauling missions but nowadays it is a lot harder since hauling missions competes with profit making contracts. One solution is to remove the 15 limitation on the private contracts since thoses contracts are not seen by the whole population and does not really contribute to spam. Beside private contract force relationships b/w players which is a good thing. The corporate contract thing is a bit flawed atm since most corporations are role specialised and not so much people specialised. Ie, you will have a pure manufacturer corp and a pure pvp corp but you can't really expect people in the pvp corp to do hauling bits since most of the time they would be war decced. So the corporate inner contract thing is a great idea but need some time to settle in. I expect them to be more useful alliance wide. Going back to the limits of slots on trading and on contracts: people buy in jita because they can find everything quickly. But also see it in the trader's perspective: i sell in Jita because it is fastest way to clear my stock. Let illustrate it with an example: I sell heavy diminishing NOS in jita and would normally make a 1M profit on it and clear them in about 3 days. Let say 3 items so this slot provide a 1M isk profit per day. I sell the same goods in a less populous system: 1.5M profit but only it take a week to clear: profit per slot per day: 0.6M isk so i am better off selling in hubb. The only way to skew the system i can see is modulate the numbers of contract/markets slots per the popularity and the security of the region: if i can put 100 different items on the market in Jita but I can put 500 different items in 0.0 then 0.0 might become a much nicer proposition. It does reflect a bit what happen in real life where to make a profit in a small shop in the middle of no where you have to be able to propose a wide selection of goods: basically single traders or small groups of them can provide the same selection of goods as many people in hubb system. Regarding interbus transport system: with the advent of tiers 3 BS and the minerals hungry capital and titan ships: logistic is becoming more and more of an issue. The pb is that logisitic is not really fun to do and it take for ever to even get a sizeable load of minerals in 0.0 or low sec. Again forcing people to go to jita to buy ships and supply since it take some time and effort for not much profit to get them in low sec or 0.0. If there is a reasonnably fast and efficient system to move the goods around it would allow traders like me to concentrate more on providing the supply line than actually doing it. Alternatively, provide low sec or 0.0 hardened freighters to go in low or 0.0 easily with little support like having a jump drive enabled smaller freighter. (carriers are commonly used to provide supply while it should not be their role for it). With some love and tinkering, i would be happy to provide some opportunities to make hubbs in all the regions setting aside jita. --------- Sadly I just make ISK, I don't print it. :(
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.12.06 10:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Oveur - Super-regions. Some regions are simply dead, others flourish. Group them together to make super-regions. It decreases the cross-region trading enabled by obscurity. On the other hand distance is a factor and it might decrease the high margins you find, but the volume due to increased visibility might counter this (and show sellers new market more easily. This applies to both contracts and market. All that would really achieve is make Eve feel even smaller than it is and as you said, cripples cross region trading and kicks traders that use this as an income a royal kick in the teeth. More convenient isn't always better. Originally by: Oveur - Use the market skill for the contracts like we do for market for claiming/bidding etc. Anything that makes charisma a more useful attribute in skill training is good \o/ Originally by: Oveur - Interbus transport. Inside Constellations you can pay extra for "instantaneous" delivery, longer than that you would be offered to create a courier contract which would have insured delivery by Interbus if a player hasn't transported it within X days (insert any kind of range and criterias here, just examples). This could diffuse the single-system hubs entirely, having them on a constellation level. Don't want to sound rude but for the love of god NO. Jump clones are bad enough but thankfully restrictive enough for instant transport. Being able to move ships and goods around instantly is taking this way to far. If a player wants somthing far away they should bloody well make the effort to travel there and get it, otherwise get somthing from the local market and put up with the not as ideal cost. Simply putting a limiter by saying there is a fee for interbus is a slippery slope simply becuase if the cost is high to restrict usage people will complain and moan and gripe until it's lowered to the point everyone just uses it. Again, more convenient is not always better. Originally by: Oveur Now, these things aren't mutually exclusive or need to all to go in, you can think about combinations between these, tinker with ranges and criteria etc. but it's food for thought. It would be better seeing more reasons to break up super hubs right now. While they do provide a nice level of convenience for buyers (reflecting real life supermarkets) they also cause problems. The obvious is having players bunch up in a single system to the point that it requires its own node to work and even then, still suffers from a great deal of lag. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Hermithoth Black Bag Ops	Posted - 2006.12.06 11:16:00 - [27] Originally by: Oveur - Super-regions. Some regions are simply dead, others flourish. Group them together to make super-regions. It decreases the cross-region trading enabled by obscurity. On the other hand distance is a factor and it might decrease the high margins you find, but the volume due to increased visibility might counter this (and show sellers new market more easily. This applies to both contracts and market. Man, you can't call it super-regions. Call it 'sectors' or something else that is classic sci-fi'ish :P
Gemini Zero Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.06 11:21:00 - [28] Edited by: Gemini Zero on 06/12/2006 11:22:24 Originally by: Oveur - Use the market skill for the contracts like we do for market for claiming/bidding etc. This is a great idea, but only if level 5 gives you the abilty to bid or buy anywhere. Just like escrow was, you were able to claim any escrow, any where, atleast if you saw it before it dropped out of the most recent batch. I'm pretty sure everyone here would agree that the new features of contracts coupled with the accesability of escrow would make for an excellent system. That being said, what was the reasoning for restricting the range in the move from escrow to contracts? Thanks for responding Oveur!
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2006.12.06 11:44:00 - [29] Well, interbus transport sounds nice, but will surely be used in 0.0 in warfare, except it doesn't work there ofc. If your station is sieged, move your stuff out via interbus transport. Only problem would be insurances. If gates are camped, move stuff in and out via interbus transport like poses and pos-fuel. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Lucre STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.06 11:56:00 - [30] Agreed. Old auction system you're trying to replace involved posting to E-O forum i.e. it was global. If the replacement doesn't provide the same global capability (only with better implementation with scam and time-waster avoidance) then it won't replace it. Period. Regional contracts are slightly less irritating but only slightly. And as others have noted, it'll just lead to everything and everyone going to Jita because nobody wants to check half a dozen regions unless they can do it in one click (hint, see Eve-Central!). Super-regions just won't help that. - It's great flying Amarr, aint it?
Gemini Zero Caldari Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.06 11:56:00 - [31] Edited by: Gemini Zero on 06/12/2006 12:00:45 Originally by: Plutoinum Well, interbus transport sounds nice, but will surely be used in 0.0 in warfare, except it doesn't work there ofc. If your station is sieged, move your stuff out via interbus transport. Only problem would be insurances. If gates are camped, move stuff in and out via interbus transport like poses and pos-fuel. Oveur was very quick to say that the interbus would be for movement in the same constallation, which would help spread the density out of mega hubs. It would also be impossible to use it to get goods in and out of a region since most gate camps are done at region links, and I'm pretty sure no constallation spans two regions. I'm not sure how I feel about the interbus idea myself. Everything else you buy you must pick up. If the interbus was implimented it might be intersting to add some variety to the delivery time and cost. Possibly a chance based delivery speed. Standings with interbus should increase your chances of a speedy delivery as well as lower your cost.
Allen Deckard Gallente LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:36:00 - [32] Originally by: Nicocat Since when is Jita its own region? Go to something else in the Forge to bid on items in Jita. You already had to fly there to pick it up. Cause it's over 50 stupid jumps to the stupid region.
Zar Dim Minmatar Anus Horriblis	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:46:00 - [33] Originally by: Haffrage You didn't use escrow too frequently, did you? Eh? I can't think other stupid enough answer on such stupid question. (Well since this still could be a genuine curiosity, i'll answer - i did)
Zar Dim Minmatar Anus Horriblis	Posted - 2006.12.06 14:57:00 - [34] Edited by: Zar Dim on 06/12/2006 14:58:03 Originally by: Lucre Regional contracts are slightly less irritating but only slightly. And as others have noted, it'll just lead to everything and everyone going to Jita because nobody wants to check half a dozen regions unless they can do it in one click. That's simply wrong. That wasn't true earlier, this is not true now. And won't happend any time soon. YOU HAD to fly to Jita earlier because due to bugs, it was quite possible that items wasn't visible away from the region. So in fact escrow wasn't global. Now you can check every item + search options, that's great. Moreover not every jerk will fly to jita to get a contract or bid on an auction, such systm will help spread contracts over all regions and not just jita-The Forge. So you are wrong on all accounts.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.06 15:51:00 - [35] Originally by: Zar Dim Edited by: Zar Dim on 06/12/2006 14:58:03 Originally by: Lucre Regional contracts are slightly less irritating but only slightly. And as others have noted, it'll just lead to everything and everyone going to Jita because nobody wants to check half a dozen regions unless they can do it in one click. That's simply wrong. That wasn't true earlier, this is not true now. And won't happend any time soon. YOU HAD to fly to Jita earlier because due to bugs, it was quite possible that items wasn't visible away from the region. So in fact escrow wasn't global. Now you can check every item + search options, that's great. Moreover not every jerk will fly to jita to get a contract or bid on an auction, such systm will help spread contracts over all regions and not just jita-The Forge. So you are wrong on all accounts. You used to visit Jita once for shopping. For auctions you have to stay in the Forge for the duration. I had no problem finding stuff on the far side of the known systems using escrow. Esrow was global - but there as some kind of time limit in effect. Finding offers for different versions of a modul type was a nobrainer. Now you can start with knowing the very name or fail. When I went to Jita, I could get everything right there, in one go, without waiting a couple of days for auctions to run out and for the contractors to finalize all the deals. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:20:00 - [36] As I am on a long vacation and have not experienced the new contract system, the posts I'm reading do not give me a high degree of confidence in how the system works now. :/ They've made escrow filterable (yay!), but put limits on the number of active escrows (??? Wah!), limited them to regional access/bid only (so now just use the market... WTF bother with contracts?) and shortened the available duration from 7 days (always annoyingly brief) to 5 (even worse). So... one good point and offhand three usefulness-killers. Fix: Triple the duration. Remove regional limits. This is why Jita has become more glutted and not less... because everyone knows where Jita is, and that the market there is huge, so that's where they go when they want to find a generally competative price and actually find what they want. The new vastly limited contract system has cemented hubs more firmly, not forced their dissolution.
Cyclops43	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:25:00 - [37] Edited by: Cyclops43 on 06/12/2006 16:25:31 Originally by: Tachy For auctions you have to stay in the Forge for the duration. Not really: 1. Create Alt 2. Move Alt to Jita 3. Alt bids on auction 4. Alt stays until auction is over Rinse and repeat.... EDIT: Still awfully annoying though.....
Lord WarATron Amarr Vanguard Frontiers Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:28:00 - [38] Originally by: Cyclops43 Edited by: Cyclops43 on 06/12/2006 16:25:31 Originally by: Tachy For auctions you have to stay in the Forge for the duration. Not really: 1. Create Alt 2. Move Alt to Jita 3. Alt bids on auction 4. Alt stays until auction is over Rinse and repeat.... EDIT: Still awfully annoying though..... Granted, however some people may need to train a t2 hauler alt, or a freightor alt depending on the situation. They will also have to transfer back and forth isk from their mains. --- Slot 10 Akemons Modified 'Noble'Zet 5000 implant +8% Armour FREE
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:31:00 - [39] Super size- Essence and Sinq Laison - New name Gallente Prime Super size- Lonetrek and Citidel - New name Caldari Prime These two regions would be great. Please make contracts and orders for the market into one field. remove the Contract skill and allow the trader just use his market skills. I guess your a tycoon if you need more contract slots. either way I dont see a problem with this. ------------------------------------- If shares where items the stock market would occur in EVE instantly. Starbase Charters Gallente
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:38:00 - [40] Edited by: Harisdrop on 06/12/2006 16:40:28 Quote: - Interbus transport. Inside Constellations you can pay extra for "instantaneous" delivery, longer than that you would be offered to create a courier contract which would have insured delivery by Interbus if a player hasn't transported it within X days (insert any kind of range and criterias here, just examples). This could diffuse the single-system hubs entirely, having them on a constellation level. Do not charge us for the courier contract. Let the system create courier contracts they would be different. I place a buy region wide. I set a trigger when qty is reached of this item i get a courier mission to my base. If a player gets it then its all good otherwise i have set date limit that interbus does it. The settings will be layed out. The price for each courier is set and the collateral and qty. My courier charge is taken at the beginning. Given that low sec has to be figured into this charge for both. Interbus are not actual ships but a batch job behind the scene.move item from here to here. I can choose not to have players do it. I can choose no courier at all I can choose no interbus. Interbus better be exspensive!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------------- If shares where items the stock market would occur in EVE instantly. Starbase Charters Gallente
Allen Deckard Gallente LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 16:42:00 - [41] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Cyclops43 Edited by: Cyclops43 on 06/12/2006 16:25:31 Originally by: Tachy For auctions you have to stay in the Forge for the duration. Not really: 1. Create Alt 2. Move Alt to Jita 3. Alt bids on auction 4. Alt stays until auction is over Rinse and repeat.... EDIT: Still awfully annoying though..... Granted, however some people may need to train a t2 hauler alt, or a freightor alt depending on the situation. They will also have to transfer back and forth isk from their mains. I realize eve is not really a rpg. But i have 1 character 1 account I dont want to train another character to do what this character should be able to do. Guess I am completely alone on that one though.
Shakuul Caldari The Imperial Commonwealth The Sundering	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:09:00 - [42] Super highways changed travel time, making the universe smaller in terms of space. Super regions will make the universe smaller in terms of information, as all of the information will be collected in smaller groups. Super highways would actually create more regions of countryside, because they increase population density by confining people to areas closer to super highways. Super regions will cause everyone spend more time in their home system (wherever they run missions from, etc) since they can see Jita prices whenever they want. If it kills traders, fine. They really don't add anything of real value to the economy. Miners and maufacturers create value. Minerals are worth more than nothing, a ship is worth more than the minerals that make it up. Traders are in fact an isk drain, since they incur additional fees by buying and reselling. Super regions will be more convenient and more efficient. Instant transport within constellations seems fine too. Its just like a super system, moving the server load from one system to 5 or 6. This adds convenience without removing many aspects of logistics, like the risk involved in moving minerals in and out of 0.0.
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:13:00 - [43] Ask again if there are stations in 0.0 that are in the same constellation? The answer is "YES"!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------------- If shares where items the stock market would occur in EVE instantly. Starbase Charters Gallente
Meep Eep	Posted - 2006.12.06 18:56:00 - [44] Just some anectdotal evidence: - In WoW the Auction Houses used to be separate. This caused everyone to use a single AH (Org for Horde, IF for alliance). The other cities became empty, since it was pointless to go there. - A few patches back they linked all the AH, suddenly everyone spread out and used whichever city they wished. So basically, by trying to 'force' regions they actually caused everyone to congregate. Only by making the AH global did it make people spread out. BTW, I think regional markets are possible (obviously they are in real life) but they can only work with population much larger than any typical MMOG of today.
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:15:00 - [45] There are a number of things I think need to be done to the contracts system to make it a better tool for everyone. The Multiple Items tag reduces visibility of contracts with more than one thing included. How to fix this? Maybe increasing the space/visible characters in the Description field and making it more prominent and sortable would help. Maybe allow bids on auctions across all of space, but item exchanges and other immediate transactions stay limited to regions. If you're outside the region, you need to pay an additional broker fee because you're employing someone to go place your bids for you. The upside is auctions will get more competitive bidding, while local players have the best chances to get good deals on item exchanges and such. HELP TEXT / DOCUMENTATION!!! CCP, we luv ya, but you're bloody awful at documentation. I had to walk a very veteran, intelligent player through how to find a direct item exchange he set up from one character to another today. There should be more in-game support for stuff, AND it should probably be more intuitive. People were used to the old system, and now there are more steps and more ways to get lost in the process. Maybe costs of listing in overpopulated trade hubs should be increased. Do we really want everyone to have alts in Jita? At least, everyone who doesn't already have one? It was blatantly obvious that Jita population and traffic would only get worse with this system, so there's no excuse for not having at least tried something to combat the problem on initial rollout. We need better sorting tools. Within a region, you ought to be able to sort a specific item by price, and the first page would show the cheapest ones, regardless of how long ago they were initially listed, not just the stuff on page 1. Sorting blueprints by stats sure would be nice, too. Secondary sorting would help, so you can choose both a primary filter and secondary one, for instance the cheapest Drake BPCs at the top, with highest ME level or number of runs coming in above lower ones at the same price. Another useful sorting tool would be by jump distance. I'm sure there are others we could come up with.
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:17:00 - [46] Originally by: Mack Dorgeans We need better sorting tools. Within a region, you ought to be able to sort a specific item by price, and the first page would show the cheapest ones, regardless of how long ago they were initially listed, not just the stuff on page 1. Sorting blueprints by stats sure would be nice, too. Secondary sorting would help, so you can choose both a primary filter and secondary one, for instance the cheapest Drake BPCs at the top, with highest ME level or number of runs coming in above lower ones at the same price. Another useful sorting tool would be by jump distance. I'm sure there are others we could come up with. I really think making Contracts into XML pages would be awesome. ------------------------------------- If shares where items the stock market would occur in EVE instantly. Starbase Charters Gallente
ProphetGuru Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:22:00 - [47] If I had 1 trit for every time I've heard a dev invoke interbus since beta.. I'd have enough to build dread. Don't get me wrong, be nice to finally see em.... [CLS] Bawldeux IV- start posting all kinds of crap about BoB members, insulting their families,friends,anything that will **** them off.
Marcus Starr Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:35:00 - [48] I thought the whole point of the contract system was to force everyone, through contract fees, to go to less populated systems to sell their stuff. Just keep raising the fees until it becomes unbearable for buyers and sellers to pay for the item. Give it a year or two and if that doesn't work then go with your super regions idea.
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.12.06 19:37:00 - [49] One more thing... FIX THE BROKER RELATIONS AND ACCOUNTING SKILLS so they actually work on contracts issued on behalf of your corp. They appear to work somewhat now, but for instance the taxes they say you're going to be charged when you create the contract are not what you get charged upon completion of the contract. Instead the corp gets charged a full 1% rather than the skills-lowered amount.
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.12.06 20:52:00 - [50] Yet another request: please add contracts completed to the transactions tab of the wallet, with a rundown on what sold. It's hard to keep track of what exactly I've sold by memory alone, though the notepad helps if I remember to keep track of all my running contracts. Anyone got a +10 memory implant to sell?
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2006.12.06 23:29:00 - [51] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 06/12/2006 23:30:00 Originally by: Marcus Starr I thought the whole point of the contract system was to force everyone, through contract fees, to go to less populated systems to sell their stuff. Just keep raising the fees until it becomes unbearable for buyers and sellers to pay for the item. Give it a year or two and if that doesn't work then go with your super regions idea. I thought the point of the contract system was to create a better trade system, not remove the trade system from the game. There is one and only one way to prevent people from clustering in Jita while keeping this pathetic approach of restrictive game design: permaban everyone who puts contracts in Forge. There is no other way.
Marcus Starr Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.07 00:49:00 - [52] Originally by: Argenton Sayvers Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 06/12/2006 23:30:00 Originally by: Marcus Starr I thought the whole point of the contract system was to force everyone, through contract fees, to go to less populated systems to sell their stuff. Just keep raising the fees until it becomes unbearable for buyers and sellers to pay for the item. Give it a year or two and if that doesn't work then go with your super regions idea. I thought the point of the contract system was to create a better trade system, not remove the trade system from the game. There is one and only one way to prevent people from clustering in Jita while keeping this pathetic approach of restrictive game design: permaban everyone who puts contracts in Forge. There is no other way. I got the idea from the Contract blog under the taxes section, but I didn't remember it correctly I like the permaban idea though but let's just keep it to public contracts.
Perseus D'Solos	Posted - 2006.12.07 01:08:00 - [53] I probably shouldn't be saying this, since it will probably give the devs some bad ideas, but if you're able to send isk to pretty much anyone anywhere in EVE, why shouldn't you be able to bid on contracts from anywhere? It's not very consistent, is it? One more thing, anything less than making contracts searchable in all regions at once, will just concentrate all commerce to one place. In other words, "Jita" would be a better name for the contracts system.
Avera Mikou	Posted - 2006.12.07 01:55:00 - [54] It doesn't make any sense lag-wise to try to force everyone in the universe who wants to buy things into the same system
Barbarellas Daughter	Posted - 2006.12.07 02:02:00 - [55] Originally by: Perseus D'Solos I probably shouldn't be saying this, since it will probably give the devs some bad ideas, but if you're able to send isk to pretty much anyone anywhere in EVE, why shouldn't you be able to bid on contracts from anywhere? It's not very consistent, is it? One more thing, anything less than making contracts searchable in all regions at once, will just concentrate all commerce to one place. In other words, "Jita" would be a better name for the contracts system. Hm, comparing to real life, u can send money via online banking, but would you make a bid on a Gistii-Mercedes in insert random country from your computer? I bet you will inspect first!
Perseus D'Solos	Posted - 2006.12.07 02:08:00 - [56] Originally by: Barbarellas Daughter Hm, comparing to real life, u can send money via online banking, but would you make a bid on a Gistii-Mercedes in insert random country from your computer? I bet you will inspect first! Moot point, since inspecting something located in Jita looks the same when doing it in Jita as it does doing it from insert-name-of-place-not-in-the-forge. EVE isn't real life. If it was, I'd be depressed atm.
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.07 02:19:00 - [57] One thing I'd like to see is being able to search for item exchange contracts a bit more globally to make it such that people could setup "buy contracts" out at the edges of empire and leave the actual item aquisition and transport up to someone else. The way it is right now though nobody will ever even see a contract where someone might be offering ISK for a particular item. This will lead to people not bothering to put up such buy orders which will lead to people not even trying to search.
Celeste Coeval	Posted - 2006.12.07 02:36:00 - [58] no it just makes you get off your arse "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2006.12.07 03:00:00 - [59] Originally by: Celeste Coeval no it just makes you get off your arse No mate, this is not a matter of "getting off one's arse" - it is a matter of the system, which was designed to streamline the escrow, being unintuitive and counterproductive. The way system is now makes everyone create an ALT specifically to be in Jita and other "Hub" systems. The way it should be is to have global access to contracts, where anyone in any system or region can bid and buy, so long as they have gone into small trouble of searching a particular region. If "contracts" were globably accesible then there will be no reason for one's ALT to camp a hub system, in essence making people spread out more and cutting down on the significance of Lag Inducing Hubs.
MissileRus	Posted - 2006.12.07 03:11:00 - [60] Edited by: MissileRus on 07/12/2006 03:12:27 i would like to see NPC haulers jumping gates and transporting stuff, i would like to see pirates being able to take them down, and you can even escort them to keep the transport safe. since players dont seem to be willing to transport things if your not paying them 2x the price of the thing you bought or even more id like to see something like this someday... i dont like the ideas of instant delivery edit: the skillbook changes for regions to claim in sounds needed though --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2006.12.07 03:37:00 - [61] Originally by: MissileRus Edited by: MissileRus on 07/12/2006 03:12:27 i would like to see NPC haulers jumping gates and transporting stuff, i would like to see pirates being able to take them down, and you can even escort them to keep the transport safe. since players dont seem to be willing to transport things if your not paying them 2x the price of the thing you bought or even more id like to see something like this someday... i dont like the ideas of instant delivery edit: the skillbook changes for regions to claim in sounds needed though Instant delivery? I would agree with you that it would be silly. But not being able to Bid/Buy/Claim a public contract just because you are not in the region is pretty bad IMO. Once you got the contract, then you can send an ALT or go there yourself to pick it up, right now it is impossible to claim anything outside of your current regional location. That is the main issue.
Clone Betta	Posted - 2006.12.07 03:50:00 - [62] Originally by: MissileRus Instant delivery? I would agree with you that it would be silly. But not being able to Bid/Buy/Claim a public contract just because you are not in the region is pretty bad IMO. Once you got the contract, then you can send an ALT or go there yourself to pick it up, right now it is impossible to claim anything outside of your current regional location. That is the main issue. I think you can. open up contracts, under "view" select a different region, then the get "contracts" button. right click on one your interested in and click on the place bid option. use the simple view.
Letouk Mernel	Posted - 2006.12.07 04:04:00 - [63] If you're gonna "supersize" might as well do it faction-wide (the whole Caldari space, f.ex.). Question about loans, since I haven't checked yet, can I set it up so that someone borrows 1 mil, and have to pay back 110k monthly, and if they miss a payment they forfeit the collateral item?
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.07 04:13:00 - [64] "- Use the market skill for the contracts like we do for market for claiming/bidding etc."
Reiisha Satal's Legion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.07 04:42:00 - [65] Originally by: Allen Deckard Sorry but aint no way I am flying to jita to place a stupid bid on an auction that is going to be up for 5 days. I can see ur domination warp scrambler I want to buy it but sorry not goin to jita. Why not just call it "the market" thats all it is only difference I see is I cant see the prices in other regions on the market and I can with contracts. Was it that much of an issue to let me buy in other regions? Don't you need to go to the location to make the pickup anyway? And what are you doing bidding a week before the end? EVE History Wiki - Help us fill it!
Deikan Frost Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.07 05:13:00 - [66] Edited by: Deikan Frost on 07/12/2006 05:13:23 Originally by: Oveur We're considering a couple of things here, which are both specific to market and contracts. - Super-regions. Some regions are simply dead, others flourish. Group them together to make super-regions. It decreases the cross-region trading enabled by obscurity. On the other hand distance is a factor and it might decrease the high margins you find, but the volume due to increased visibility might counter this (and show sellers new market more easily. This applies to both contracts and market. - Use the market skill for the contracts like we do for market for claiming/bidding etc. - Interbus transport. Inside Constellations you can pay extra for "instantaneous" delivery, longer than that you would be offered to create a courier contract which would have insured delivery by Interbus if a player hasn't transported it within X days (insert any kind of range and criterias here, just examples). This could diffuse the single-system hubs entirely, having them on a constellation level. Now, these things aren't mutually exclusive or need to all to go in, you can think about combinations between these, tinker with ranges and criteria etc. but it's food for thought. I really like the concepts there, as long as the Interbus fee isn't too cheap so that people will think twice before using it. As much as it would be nice to see the prices equalize a little throughout a given region (instead of having it cheap in the central systems, and expensive in borders), I think the Interbus idea could be "dangerous" if it's too easily accessible. Maybe make it for orders of a certain size only (as in, don't allow the Interbus option for packages below a certain size, or below a certain jump range). There's a good potential with the idea though, I like it!
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.07 06:05:00 - [67] Originally by: Wild Rho Originally by: Oveur - Use the market skill for the contracts like we do for market for claiming/bidding etc. Anything that makes charisma a more useful attribute in skill training is good \o/ That kind of reasoning got leadership specialists 3million skillpoints to train before parity with what they had 2 weeks ago. For the love of God please don't say things like this again. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
MissileRus	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:04:00 - [68] Originally by: Jinx Barker Instant delivery? I would agree with you that it would be silly. But not being able to Bid/Buy/Claim a public contract just because you are not in the region is pretty bad IMO. Once you got the contract, then you can send an ALT or go there yourself to pick it up, right now it is impossible to claim anything outside of your current regional location. That is the main issue. well you can claim/bid and buy... but you wont get the stuff at your doorstep if you know what i mean, that would be so wrong.. --------------------------- 4. i like pizza
Ghoest	Posted - 2006.12.07 16:06:00 - [69] Isnt the obvious answer to just stick an alt in Jita with a wad of cash? I thought everyone was doing that now. Wherever you went - here you are.
MORRS	Posted - 2006.12.10 17:58:00 - [70] I personally do not want to trade in hell hole Jita and it seems that is what is forced on us. Just recently I put a contract up and it cost me over 300k for one BPC at 12 mil, why? I have 400 cap component, BS, BC, cap mod bpc's to sell and haven't been able to sell a thing since patch. The old escrow system was fine as it was. It had it's faults but enlarge it was great for selling bpc's. I am currently running 5 full time accounts and I can tell you this is a game breaker for me. for the first time in 3 years I have no desire to log on and play. While I did production, built cap ships, mining, missions, R&D and other aspects of the game; they all revolved around the escrow system to sell my products. While there are some nice features in the new system and thy should stay and improved, I want the old system back which was quick and easy. Good sorting and you could post all your stuff. YOu could get price references and it was global. It has it's faults but over all it was great system for a reseller and selling bpc's. There is no reason to be charging exhorbenant amount of isk to use contracts. 300k for a 12 mil item? That is ludicrous. Why do you want us all to sell in Jita? Even if I were to sell in Jita, to limit me to 13 contracts is insane. I know I am probably repeating what others have said but I am really frustrated with the game right now and my desire to play is diminishing. I do not want to quit game, I want to play as I have had over the years with an escrow system that is global, easy to use and not isk farming me.
Valgore Xizor Minmatar The Xizor Cartel	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:24:00 - [71] One thing you could do in the short term. 1. Create a new Caldari character in a free slot (assuming you have one) 2. Transfer some pocket money to your new character. 3. Log on to your new character - default region Jita 4. Place bid with new character, log off, log on your main character, play. YOu can monitor the auction with your main and should you wish to add a bid, just log on your new char and bid. Crime Pays!
El Covah No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:26:00 - [72] Can't we just get escrow back plz ?
Zelea Zinc	Posted - 2006.12.10 19:58:00 - [73] Simple fix to the Jita problem: Tax the HELL out of the sellers. I mean let it be rediculous. Simply set it so that the taxes in a region rise as the market volume increases, and falls when it decreases. That would encourage markets in other regions at the very least.
MORRS	Posted - 2006.12.11 03:41:00 - [74] Quote: Can't we just get escrow back plz ? Exactly, now your talking!
Azrael Maxim Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.11 05:33:00 - [75] Originally by: El Covah Can't we just get escrow back plz ? In light of this remark can we keep contracts, as they are great for auctions and other stuff, and can we have escrow on top of that. It would be great to have 3 systems to trade with.

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