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Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2003.11.19 19:19:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 19/11/2003 23:33:00
As many of you may have seen on the news the caldari have been making some rather rash moves of late. Although they do not directly concern the minmatar people at this stage it is TPFM's view that this kind of behaviour cannot be tolerated.
Added to the multiple counts of misconduct, there is also the fact that the caldari empire is aligned closely with the Amarr, our most hated of all enemies.
We believe that a war is brewing between the caldari, and our close allies the gallante. It is for this reason that we have decided to take action.
From this day forward all caldari are to be targeted for attack by the TPFM. You have been warned.
Instas??
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Hardin
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Posted - 2003.11.19 20:06:00 -
[2]
The Peoples Front of Minmatar is declaring war on all Caldari - wow 
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Gaius Kador
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Posted - 2003.11.19 20:12:00 -
[3]
What utter fools! Ah well, not a real surprise considering this rag tag gathering of slave-dogs' collective lack of coherent thought!
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cold lazarus
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Posted - 2003.11.19 20:51:00 -
[4]
Edited by: cold lazarus on 19/11/2003 20:56:20
 Quote:
From this day forward all caldari are to be targeted for attack by the TPFM. You have been warned.
Very interesting, does this also mean any Caldari members of the CA? I would presume it would with such a bold sweeping statment.
Seems my thought of a minmatar state in curse are slowly but gradulaly starting to form who is next Minmatar? the Gallante for being to kind to other races.
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2003.11.19 21:18:00 -
[5]
Sorry we cant reply, we are currently in Jove space, trying to struck a deal for station rights there, all looks promising, lots of ark out here, it seems the Joves, have some sort of recycling their waste into minerals...
But will contact al our friends in empire space, when we have obtained our rights in Jove space
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2003.11.19 21:24:00 -
[6]
Quote:
who is next Minmatar? the Gallante for being to kind to other races.
I believe I made our stance with the gallante federation quite clear.
Instas??
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Viqer Fell
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Posted - 2003.11.19 21:52:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Viqer Fell on 19/11/2003 21:52:18
After spending many weeks away from my ship and deep in meditation I have returned to once more step forth in battle for my people.
The Peoples Front has undergone many changes recently. We have stepped back from the frontline to increase our resources, we have fought alongside the GWP against local Zombie pirates before the CA turned their attention to this protectorate and recently we have joined the CA.
It seems that our silence on these news channels and our absence from empire space has only fueled the speculation that we have withdrawn from our declarations of outright war against Amarr interests.
Many who know of us already know our view of the Amarr disease that infests this universe. It would appear that as war encroaches upon our horizons that the Caldari will follow their wallets, as ever, straight into the pockets of their historical allies the Amarr. We believe that war is an inevitable consequence of the Amarrian empires continued existence and as such we view their allies as a clear threat to the Minmattarian people.
You are right of course Cold to raise the issue of our membership within CA and how this relates to our anti amarr and anti caldari stance.
At this time the People's Front of Minmatar remains a part of CA and as such we have agreed not to hunt any alliance member in spite of the fact that we view many of them as valid targets.
We are actively working with many pro-minmatar corps within CA and as such they gain from our presence as and where possible on both military and mining aspects. Our gain is access to the lower security space that allows us to hunt freely those not part of the alliance. Until such time as we leave CA their pilots remain on our friendly list.
This said it is likely that we will not be permanent members of CA because of the Amarrian and Caldari membership however this is by no means certain and therefore subject to discussion within the council of the PFM. As such it is inappropriate to comment further.
Ok, so what the hell is this Golden Ratio? |
Cyrus Bishop
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Posted - 2003.11.19 22:19:00 -
[8]
A bold move to be sure. It reminds me of the Curse Coalition's claim on Curse; completely unenforceable. Sure gets those news cameras pointed in your direction though, doesn't it?
Quote:
As many of you may have seen on the news the caldari have been making some rather rash moves of late. Although they do not directly concern the minmatar people at this stage it is the TPFM's view that this kind of behaviour cannot be tolerated.
You're not talking about that protein delicacy incident are you? Come now, that was hilarious!
Quote:
It would appear that as war encroaches upon our horizons that the Caldari will follow their wallets, as ever, straight into the pockets of their historical allies the Amarr.
If you're so confident that we will follow our wallets how can you be sure that will lead to Amarr space? There is plenty of money to be made with our other neighbors. You Minmatar do love to squeeze off rounds, and it seems that you'll have no shortage of targets in the near future. Plus, we made a killing off those Gallente blokes with those tasty treats. Who's to say we won't be able to sell them whatever else we can find at the bottom of our garbage cans?
Quote:
At this time the People's Front of Minmatar remains a part of CA and as such we have agreed not to hunt any alliance member in spite of the fact that we view many of them as valid targets.
Valid targets? You chaps wast no time in taking your torches to freshly built bridges eh?
P.S.: The proper wording is "Minmatar" people. I'm not quite sure who these Minmattarian lads are, but I'm sure they're just elated to hear that you're on their side.
"Always forgive your enemies--nothing annoys them so much." |
Viqer Fell
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Posted - 2003.11.20 01:06:00 -
[9]
Quote:
A bold move to be sure. It reminds me of the Curse Coalition's claim on Curse; completely unenforceable. Sure gets those news cameras pointed in your direction though, doesn't it?
Unenforceable???? You have the advantage of me here as I cannot comprehend your meaning. How is it unenforceable for us to consider all Caldari pilots we meet to be valid targets?
Quote:
It would appear that as war encroaches upon our horizons that the Caldari will follow their wallets, as ever, straight into the pockets of their historical allies the Amarr.
If you're so confident that we will follow our wallets how can you be sure that will lead to Amarr space?
I am confident that you're morally corrupt society will continue to associate with the people wishing to trade with you. I only make educated guesses as to how your leaders will act should war erupt but I reckon my guess is a fairly accurate one.
Quote:
At this time the People's Front of Minmatar remains a part of CA and as such we have agreed not to hunt any alliance member in spite of the fact that we view many of them as valid targets.
Valid targets? You chaps wast no time in taking your torches to freshly built bridges eh?
Any Amarrian pilot or Caldari pilot is now considered a valid target for destruction within the PFM's rules of engagement. There are few exceptions to this. Those pilots who are members of CA are not considered to be targets as I said. As for burning new bridges, well no-one mentioned anything about the bridges being new. We have known a lot of CA corps for much longer than we have been members and as such our associates within CA know full well the PFM's extremist political views.
Quote:
P.S.: The proper wording is "Minmatar" people. I'm not quite sure who these Minmattarian lads are, but I'm sure they're just elated to hear that you're on their side.
I will take that in the jocular manner I assume it was meant as no-one likes a pedant who points out the grammatical errors in posts. 
Ok, so what the hell is this Golden Ratio? |
Cyrus Bishop
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Posted - 2003.11.20 02:09:00 -
[10]
Quote:
Unenforceable???? You have the advantage of me here as I cannot comprehend your meaning. How is it unenforceable for us to consider all Caldari pilots we meet to be valid targets?
Maybe I should have been more careful in my word choice. Let's call it fruitless, in the realist sense of course. You see, you can't possibly accomplish much of anything through such a policy. It serves to stick your head above the crowd and say, "We're over here", and not much else.
Quote:
I am confident that you're morally corrupt society will continue to associate with the people wishing to trade with you. I only make educated guesses as to how your leaders will act should war erupt but I reckon my guess is a fairly accurate one.
Right, so we're punishing future crimes before they are even committed. There are many words I could use to describe that, "fair" and "reasonable" aren't any of them.
Quote:
Those pilots who are members of CA are not considered to be targets as I said.
Odd...
Quote:
At this time the People's Front of Minmatar remains a part of CA and as such we have agreed not to hunt any alliance member in spite of the fact that we view many of them as valid targets.
Perhaps I've made an error in comprehension?
Quote:
I will take that in the jocular manner I assume it was meant as no-one likes a pedant who points out the grammatical errors in posts.
It wasn't meant to be a comment on grammer, more one on culture.
"Always forgive your enemies--nothing annoys them so much." |
Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2003.11.20 03:08:00 -
[11]
Quote:
Right, so we're punishing future crimes before they are even committed. There are many words I could use to describe that, "fair" and "reasonable" aren't any of them.
No, you are being punished for current and past crimes. selling reprocessed ***** as food, funny as it may seem to you is no laughing matter.
Instas??
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2003.11.20 03:09:00 -
[12]
the ***** was a grown up word for poo
Instas??
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Cyrus Bishop
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Posted - 2003.11.20 03:33:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Cyrus Bishop on 20/11/2003 03:33:43
Quote:
No, you are being punished for current and past crimes. selling reprocessed ***** as food, funny as it may seem to you is no laughing matter.
I must say you Minmatar chaps certainly are hard to follow. You say one thing, then something very different the next time you open your mouth.
Quote:
I only make educated guesses as to how your leaders will act should war erupt but I reckon my guess is a fairly accurate one.
An educated guess is based on something. In this case all we have to support such a guess is past action. That is unless protien delacasies and their composition were somehow a factor in past Caldari/Amarr/Minmatar relations. If this is true, please enlighten me.
If you want to take the route of the freedom fighter and say that we Caldari support the slave trade you're going to have to broaden the spectrum old boy. By that I mean add the words "Minmatar" and "Gallente" to your list of races to declare war on.
Stereotypes are a messy business. You'd best leave them be.
Cheers.
"Always forgive your enemies--nothing annoys them so much." |
Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2003.11.20 03:38:00 -
[14]
I was refering to my original post. Where I talked about recent events. For us, that was enough. The rest is still speculation, but we are willing to live with that.
Instas??
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Kitsune
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Posted - 2003.11.20 03:54:00 -
[15]
Quote:
Any Amarrian pilot or Caldari pilot is now considered a valid target for destruction within the PFM's rules of engagement. There are few exceptions to this. Those pilots who are members of CA are not considered to be targets as I said. As for burning new bridges, well no-one mentioned anything about the bridges being new. We have known a lot of CA corps for much longer than we have been members and as such our associates within CA know full well the PFM's extremist political views.
While my love for the great state of Caldari shall never die, my honor demands that remain neutral in this conflict. The corporation in which I am the current CEO and one of a handfull of original senior directors... my corp is a joint Caldari-Gallente venture. This is in part, one of the the reasons that we are based in the Aridia Region on the fringes of the Amarr Empire. Despite the differences that have come between the Gallente and Caldari people, all members of our corporation are prohibited against participating in actions that would harm either of the two great empires.
We pride our neutrality as well as our ability to bring the strengths of two very different races together to help in the promotion of brotherhood of all the races. Because when it comes right down to it, I don't care what race is covering my wing out in deep space, and often find it more productive to work with someone completely different from myself. Generally, in the end we find out that we have more in common, just like all the races and corporations do, than anyone would like to admit.
If attacked we will defend ourselves as a corporation, Gallente and Caldari alike, with full reports being sent to our contacts in both empires. We do not seek out trouble and prefer to remain neutral as such is best for business when you are a bounty hunter or mercenary and hold no allegiance except to your brothers that fly with you.
-Kitsune's 2cents |
Cyrus Bishop
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Posted - 2003.11.20 05:00:00 -
[16]
Quote:
I was refering to my original post. Where I talked about recent events. For us, that was enough.
Really? Doesn't take much does it? I have to say, you're not doing much to sway mt original thought; that this is all meant to grab a little face time.
Cheers.
"Always forgive your enemies--nothing annoys them so much." |
Miho Akahoshi
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Posted - 2003.11.20 06:45:00 -
[17]
While Kabuki TransSolar welcomes The Peoples Front of Minmatar to this conflict, I would like to suggest that painting the Caldari with too broad a brush would be counterproductive. Kabuki TransSolar recognizes that Sukuuvestaa Corporation is the primary party responsible for the Protein Delicacies debacle, and as such considers them the primary target. Other Caldari corporations, such as Ishukone Corporation, that are moving towards a more beneficial relationship with the larger universe around them should not be punished for the actions of their sister corporations.
As such, Kabuki TransSolar has restrained its agents from general destruction at this time. Kabuki TransSolar Letters of Marque and Reprisal specify that their bearers are authorized to attack only vessels belonging to Sukuuvestaa Corporation and their direct supporters.
This is not a conflict of race. It is a conflict of ideologies.
Kabuki TransSolar, because all the worlds a stage... |
Slithereen
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Posted - 2003.11.20 07:59:00 -
[18]
Looks like the TPFM has offered to be a new source of protein to the Caldari.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.11.20 08:45:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Talon SilverHawk on 20/11/2003 08:46:53
Aawww Eddie and Viqer and I thought we where friends..
I suppose that does increase your available pool of targets.
Another serious question though. CA are currently at peace with the CFS what happens if you meet Amarr or Caldari from the CFS ? If you attack them you violate the treaty . What's your stance on this, this also goes for any other NAPs or treaties you may have.
Tal
What goes around comes around.
What goes around comes around...
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Jera
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Posted - 2003.11.20 10:55:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Jera on 20/11/2003 10:57:33
The Federation usual food supplier is the Amarr empire, thus using slave labor.
Sukuuvestaa offered an alternative to the Federation, but apparently did that against 'some people' interests, people having powerfull influence in the Federation government. So 'evidences' were made, and Sukuuvestaa accused to produce its food by reprocessing biomass.
Well, reprocessed biomass, if done well, and a Caldari corporation does things well, can be very usable. Clones are made of reprocessed biomass for instance.
Since that was not enough to remove Sukuuvestaa from business, another 'evidences' were found, willing to demonstrate a link between the 'Protein Delicacies' and the constant decrease of the Federation students level. Do not dare to say it sounds ridiculous, even if it actually does, since the Federation governement made it official. Lobbying is sure something effective in the Federation...
So the Minmatar best friends are still eating food made by slave labor. Funny, isn't ?
Discuss loyalty to the State issues on the 'Caldari' channel
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.11.20 11:49:00 -
[21]
"We adhere to our principles, except.."
ho-hum..
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2003.11.20 13:27:00 -
[22]
WooHoo it's about time. Let's Caldari get together go find these guys. It's WAR and it's good for biz.
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Eddie Gordo
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Posted - 2003.11.20 13:41:00 -
[23]
Face time you say? Well, while it may get us noticed that is not the reason for this post. We fully intend to back up this declaration, I have already made a fairly good start.
The post is just here to make things official, so we can point the clones of our fallen enemies in the direction of a concise reason for their demise.
Instas??
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Talon SilverHawk
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Posted - 2003.11.20 13:54:00 -
[24]
Hi
Just to repeat what about members of Alliances you have a a treaty with ?
Tal
What goeas around comes around...
What goes around comes around...
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Makkar
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Posted - 2003.11.20 13:58:00 -
[25]
Discorporation, you are a strange one to speak ill of a lack of adherence to principles... I would think you to be the prime advocate of such a practice.
Surely Amarri zealotry lasts only as long as it is convenient, requiring only a quick reinterpretation of the scriptures to justify one's new course of actions?
Has Sarum committed ritual suicide yet, by the way?
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Perera
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Posted - 2003.11.20 17:23:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Perera on 20/11/2003 17:39:02
Oh dear. I've not yet seen such a hackneyed, half hearted and hypocritical excuse for bloodshed. Should I now say, "how typical of the trigger happy, dullard Minmatar"?
Of course not.
One of my closest friends and comrades is a Minmatar, Freewheeling but I'm not about to lobby for his expulsion from NAGA just because of your 'announcement'.
Moreover I prefer to see a broader picture. Caldari, Minmatar, Gallente and Amarr members of SA alike must be reading these developments and laughing. Why fight an enemy who potentially fight amongst themselves? Why interrupt an opponent when he makes a mistake?
I regret and abhore what Suk did. All for a few ISK. I wonder where that places me on your hitlist, TPFM, bearing in mind our hard earnt NAP with the CA?
Perera - Corp shrink!
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Hardin
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Posted - 2003.11.20 17:44:00 -
[27]
Sarkos a question here...
People's Front of Minmatar are a Curse Alliance Corp yes?
Now they are saying they will attack ALL Amarr and Caldari not in Curse Alliance.
It seems to me this is simply an excuse to indulge in PIRACY something which I thought all Curse Corps had agreed not to do.
Now if PFM were going to identify specific Caldari and Amarr targets and declare war on them then there is no problem but if they are going to gank innocents using race as an excuse then surely they are just pirates and should no longer be members of the Curse Alliance?
OOC - What is to stop Sinister from developing some roleplay and using it to 'justifiably' gank everyone? "Let's pretend we are Minmatar loyalists and declare open season on everyone except Curse Alliance pilots?"
There is no difference between that and piracy except words!"
Either Curse Alliance is non-pirate or not... If it is not then you can no longer accept PFM as members with their current kill all Amarr and Caldari policy...
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Vicarrah
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Posted - 2003.11.20 18:20:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Vicarrah on 20/11/2003 18:20:43
Hardin, you make a fine point there.... where lies the distinction between IC roleplay and pure piracy?
Its one I've wrestled with, being one of the councillors involved in the decision to widen our frontiers.
I justified it to myself on a historical point... the Amarr and the Caldari have long been involved with one another, the Caldari sometimes supplied, and sometimes used slaves captured by, or traded with the Amarr. This makes the Caldari accomplices to murder, slavery, violence, and other immoral acts.
I agree however, and I would prefer a more targetted approach, but even I'm not as rabid in my vehemence as some of our corp ;)
Vicarrah
Tahiri Protector |
Viqer Fell
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Posted - 2003.11.20 18:27:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Viqer Fell on 20/11/2003 18:31:26
Edited by: Viqer Fell on 20/11/2003 18:28:28
Edited by: Viqer Fell on 20/11/2003 18:27:42
Ok the original reasoning behind this post was to simply announce that we have updated our objectives to reflect some of the changes that are happening in the political arena across space. It was not an attempt to get the camera's facing our way as has been said. Our primary goal remains the same however we feel it appropriate to consider the friends of our enemies, our enemies. It is our view that Caldari will ally with the Amarr at such time as war breaks out.
As for double standards in terms of us not attacking CA members. Yes you're right. It is a double standard, however, it is one in which I am happy to indulge at this time.
As far as respecting NAP's that CA has, we are currently respecting these and will do as long as we remain part of CA. We have no desire to besmirch the name of CA by breaking treaties they hold to.
As far as us becoming pirates well that really comes down to semantics. We have always been labelled as pirates by many, terrorists by others and freedom fighters by the rest. Which you choose depends on your point of view I suppose. Do we attack targets of opportunity? Yes we do. Do we just sit around camping spots ganking everyone regardless of race or corporation? No we don't.
As for ganking innocents, well we have several wars currently being declared and we also have strict rules on the destruction of pods to ensure that for example the newer players to the game are not punished for simply being in a frigate at the wrong spot in space. It also again comes down to your definition of innocennts.
All in all I think its fair to reiterate that this is a time of evolution for the People's Front and as such our path forwards may take us a different route to the one we tread now. We just thought it fair to at least make it publicly known that we have widened our views on who should and shouldnt be attacked so that people are at least aware of our current stance.
Ok, so what the hell is this Golden Ratio? |
Perera
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Posted - 2003.11.20 18:47:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Perera on 20/11/2003 18:54:10
Viqer Fell - good post.
I appreciate your clarification of certain aspects of the TPFM stance.
No doubt should we meet in space we will conduct ourselves with honour and respect, no matter which course unfolds. As is usual in such cases, the way of the individual will hold sway.
Perera - Corp shrink!
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