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Dark Kavar
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Posted - 2006.12.09 06:59:00 -
[1]
One of my corp mates, brotekk, ran into ginger magician tonight and the resulting convorsation i thought was quite funny. Please tell me if i'm breaking any forum rules with this though, i checked and it doesn't look like it.
EVE System > Channel changed to Hagilur Local Channel Ginger Magician > You currently have 259 skills and 53,397,041 skill points Ginger Magician > read and wepps noobs:P Brotekk > wepps? Divine Justice > ehhhh...........run away!!! Ginger Magician > weep Brotekk > Oh thats right, you can't type. Ginger Magician > lol Ginger Magician > yeah exactly Brotekk > OH MY GOD HE GOT IT RIGHT Ginger Magician > im older and better than u Brotekk > Thats your opinion, i never said it matters. Ginger Magician > and how amny pods have u lost to snowy now\? Ginger Magician > 5-6 Brotekk > Nope. Brotekk > 2 Ginger Magician > lol Brotekk > And i lost them to what, when i was flying a shuttle? Ginger Magician > good going Brotekk > It doesn't take much to pop a shuttle, or an arbitrator when your in a capital ship. Brotekk > Quit fooling yourself, you arent nearly as good as you think. Ginger Magician > oh Ginger Magician > cue violins Brotekk > If you're so bad***, go kick the h*** out of bob and then brag. Brotekk > But until then, i see you as the wanabe you always will be. Ginger Magician > lol Brotekk > heh, your stupidity is catching. Ginger Magician > i am the greatest ever Ginger Magician > eve's most famous playea dn pirate Ginger Magician > a linign legend Brotekk > That's funny. Brotekk > I never heard your silly name until i came to this pocket. Ginger Magician > yeah sad but ture Brotekk > So if you're so famous, how come i didn't know it until then? Divine Justice > ur a newb Ginger Magician > no ida Brotekk > You camp on a gate, in a system where nobody can rival a capital ship. And you think you're tough, but when you get your *** kicked, you petition and cry like the little baby you are. Ginger Magician > jsut think u can tell your kids that u were killed by gm in eve Divine Justice > lol Ginger Magician > a makr of respect Brotekk > Say you, newb. It's not u. But your stupidity has no limits, so i forgive you. Ginger Magician > hehe Ginger Magician > its only a game u know Ginger Magician > u cant help sucking at it Brotekk > You can't suck on a game, it's intangible. Ginger Magician > well enough banter Brotekk > You make me laugh Ginger. Brotekk > :) Brotekk > You're so silly. Ginger Magician > forutnatley i was only chaning skills Ginger Magician > acrry on carebaring time Ginger Magician > for u* Divine Justice > yey! Divine Justice > shoost, u got me locked Brotekk > oh yeah Brotekk > I was just kidding :P Divine Justice > oh, k Brotekk > Ladies and gents. Brotekk > Let me announce something. Brotekk > Ginger? He's not a pirate, don't call him one. He had to prove himself by arguing with me there. That's a sign that he isnt as bad*** as he says so. Brotekk > It's really quite funny, how someone so...."Famous" has to take the time to say those things to someone like me. Brotekk > He has everything to prove, and i wouldn't be suprised if Eve was the only validation he had in his life, His only...."source" of confidence.
 
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NocturnalDeath
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.09 07:04:00 -
[2]
Edited by: NocturnalDeath on 09/12/2006 07:04:52 Pretending to be a GM... Bad Ginger
Pretending to be a Pirate... Bad Ginger
Ginger getting wtfbbq'd by 'n00bs'... priceless
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.12.09 07:09:00 -
[3]
lol! I approve of this thread.. KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat.. |

Goncyn
Supero Omnia Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.09 07:09:00 -
[4]
I'm 99% certain that's not the original player of Ginger Magician. Check my corp history. 
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slothe
Caldari Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.09 07:34:00 -
[5]
wouldnt surprise me if the OP was Gingers alt.
dunno if hes the most famous pirate in eve, but hes certainly one of the greatest self - publicists (alongside lofty).
in fact a lofty v ginger showdown would be funny.
Lofty> anyone need help in a mission? Ginge> sure....
Before complaining about any ship try flying Minmatar |

hanf
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Posted - 2006.12.09 07:44:00 -
[6]
Originally by: NocturnalDeath Edited by: NocturnalDeath on 09/12/2006 07:04:52 Pretending to be a GM... Bad Ginger
Pretending to be a Pirate... Bad Ginger
Ginger getting wtfbbq'd by 'n00bs'... priceless
he wasnt claiming to be a GM ... he said he was GM ... gm = (G) inger (M) agician
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Dracolich
North Star Networks
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Posted - 2006.12.09 07:46:00 -
[7]
Despite what anyone thinks, Ginger Magician is a nice guy, and judging from the convo there, he is also a funny guy.
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Dracolich
North Star Networks
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Posted - 2006.12.09 07:50:00 -
[8]
Despite what anyone thinks, Ginger Magician is a nice guy, and judging from the convo there, he is also a funny guy.
EDIT: Sorry you don't get popularity points by jumping on a bandwagon... sorry, Brotekk and Alt.
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Dark Kavar
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Posted - 2006.12.09 08:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: slothe wouldnt surprise me if the OP was Gingers alt.
No, I'm not ginger's alt, this is my main
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Max Manlove
Miner Protection Guild Astrophobics
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Posted - 2006.12.09 08:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dark Kavar
Originally by: slothe wouldnt surprise me if the OP was Gingers alt.
No, I'm not ginger's alt, this is my main
Ginger is your alt?  ♥♥♥ Protecting Your Right To Love Thy Neighbor ♥♥♥ |

Raem Civrie
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.09 08:38:00 -
[11]
Ginger-spotting is the new national pastime.
----
Where's my soup? |

Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.09 09:11:00 -
[12]
blow hard
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |

BurnHard
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Posted - 2006.12.09 09:15:00 -
[13]
Is Ginger a n00b? And there's me believing all the hype.
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NTRabbit
Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.09 09:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Dark Kavar
EVE System > Channel changed to Hagilur Local Channel Ginger Magician > You currently have 259 skills and 53,397,041 skill points Ginger Magician > read and wepps noobs:P
Only 53 million? Is that all?
Oh, and with a total of 259 skills, this means that you have a significant number of non combat skills from the science, industry and trade sections of the tree, with most of them trained to substandard levels. So much for GM being a 'famous combat pilot'. I should know, I'm a genuine famous combat pilot.
You currently have 179 skills and 58,075,581 skill points
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MOOstradamus
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Posted - 2006.12.09 09:53:00 -
[15]
BUNNY win
MOOCIFER Emerald/Alpha Oldtimer & Warwick Castle Gamekeeper |

Lunadi
Minmatar Solar Trade
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Posted - 2006.12.09 10:35:00 -
[16]
Wow it seems like this is a really nice tourist attraction, I must visit Hagilur in my spare time ;-)
-------- hate my spelling? go play SCRABBLE! |
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Deckard Bishop
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department

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Posted - 2006.12.09 10:46:00 -
[17]
ahhh ginger, my first characters first podding was done by GM....
those were the days 
oh, and shame ginger isn't on the character showcase with NTRabbit
*sets off for hagilur for reunion*
forum rules | [email protected] | Our Website!
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Thor Xian
Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.09 10:49:00 -
[18]
Why are people still talking about him? He was old news last year.
~Thor Xian, Chief Administrator
"For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One."
Corp/Alliance Services |

Ginger Magician
Minmatar OctoberSnow Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.09 10:53:00 -
[19]
LOL. Amazing where a bit of casual smack ends up isnt it. Was interesting to see your skills on the site quoted by the isd mr rabbit. I didnt realise u had so many skillpoints and I have in fact never even heard of u cause your a nobody in eve apart from your skillpoints it seems. However after careful comparision of our skills I can comfortably say that u would die to have my drone and gunnery skills u cant fly a capital ship and u have wasted considerable skillpoints in level 5 learning skills and mixed spaceships skills including even having gallente industrial level 5. Dont ever fight me 1v1.
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Nocturnal Prince
Tech 2 Holdings Limited
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Posted - 2006.12.09 11:03:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ginger Magician undefinedsadly self promoting smack including even having gallente industrial level 5. Dont ever fight me 1v1 because I would hate to lose my carrier to an Obelisk
you forgot to finish that sentance.
. |

TheDevilsJury
principle of motion R i s e
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Posted - 2006.12.09 12:43:00 -
[21]
To be completely honest, that particular sample of smacktalk wasn't all bad. Actually, Brotekk seemed smackier than Ginger. Seemed Brotekk was the one with something to prove.
That's not to say I haven't seen worse from this guy, but I'd say the OP wasted a thread.
^^^^ You can hide, but you can't run. ^^^^ |

Zell
Caldari The Black Raptors
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Posted - 2006.12.09 12:47:00 -
[22]
And now for something completely different...
"Ginger Magician is just a nublet. I've met more people ingame that have laughed about him, than anyone else in Eve."
"A coward dies a thousand times, the brave die just once.." |

MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.12.09 13:03:00 -
[23]
Brotekk > You can't suck on a game, it's intangible.
   -=====-
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.12.09 13:08:00 -
[24]
High skills does not make you a good player, be that pirate, mission runner or trader, high skills only meen you have been playing the game for a loong time and trained a single char.
Personally I have a fair amount of skillpoints, probably enough to rival most PvP and PK players but as Im not into the whole 0.0 and pirate aspect of this game at the moment my real life eve combat skills meen I would probbably get my ass handed to me by someone with alot less skillpoints.
Ginger Magitian is known in this game, that is true but like many have posted before me he has always been known for being a coward claiming to be elite due to the fact he only fights when he knows he cant loose.
In any case, I am fairly well connected but I cant remember hearing much about Ginger for a loong loong time, untill reading this post I thought he had quit, well quit or not he brings nothing to the game but likewise he takes nothing from the game.
Ginger, if playing like you do makes you happy then please keep doing it, just dont expect to get respect from any players for doing so :)
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Too Kind
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Posted - 2006.12.09 13:10:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Too Kind on 09/12/2006 13:11:41 To be honest this 'Waaah, you are just a poor griefer !'-whining or flaming against someone, who pirates in capital ships is even more disgusting than a pirate with a too big ego. Can't they just play the game and deal with it instead of coming up with an attempt to some rl analysis ? It's stupid and noone is interested in it. To be honest, those people deserve to experience some 'true' griefplay.  -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111 |

50freefly
Caldari Purify
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Posted - 2006.12.09 14:01:00 -
[26]
I can confirm that Dark Kavar is certainly not GM's alt. And yes Ginger we all love you... When we are feeling sad we look at you and think 'At least we aren't Ginger'.
Griefer.
Originally by: Eight Ace For reasons that have been lost in the mists of time all caldari ships are designed by two people. One does the left hand side and the other does the right.
And they never meet.
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.09 14:03:00 -
[27]
If being known on the forums implied skill, chribba, oveur, ginger magician, dark shikari, etc. would be the best players in EVE.
[OMG! SMASH!] |

Adrian Kerensky
Caldari STK Scientific Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.12.09 14:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ginger Magician LOL.
Amazing where a bit of casual smack ends up isn't it?
Was interesting to see your skills on the site quoted by the isd mr rabbit. I didn't realise you had so many skillpoints and I have in fact never even heard of you because you're a nobody in eve apart from your skillpoints it seems.
However after careful comparision of our skills I can comfortably say that you would die to have my drone and gunnery skills, you can't fly a capital ship and you have wasted considerable skillpoints in level 5 learning skills and mixed spaceships skills including even having gallente industrial level 5.
Don't ever fight me 1v1.
I've cleaned up your formatting, spelling and punctuation for you. English noob. _______________________
Originally by: Aphotic Raven NO! THATS HIS LOOT. BAD BAD PIRATE. BAD.
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Spix 'UK
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Posted - 2006.12.09 18:43:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Spix ''UK on 09/12/2006 18:44:47
Originally by: Ginger Magician LOL. Amazing where a bit of casual smack ends up isnt it. Was interesting to see your skills on the site quoted by the isd mr rabbit. I didnt realise u had so many skillpoints and I have in fact never even heard of u cause your a nobody in eve apart from your skillpoints it seems. However after careful comparision of our skills I can comfortably say that u would die to have my drone and gunnery skills u cant fly a capital ship and u have wasted considerable skillpoints in level 5 learning skills and mixed spaceships skills including even having gallente industrial level 5. Dont ever fight me 1v1.
Yes but GM .. I have slept with more girls then you , better looking then you , & dont care as much to prove to my self among the many many computer geeks which play Eve,, so really am not impressed that you sit on ur single bed in ur mums & dads house.. owning players on a MMO you proper uber leet .. player you ..
p.s who cant spell.. or very very lazy to type in game it seems..
& no I not been poded but yes lost a cept to some snowy corp thingy once in that local.
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Lord Frost
Minmatar The Crystal Method
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Posted - 2006.12.09 19:28:00 -
[30]
Ginger Who? If I can't remember the name after that disurbing read, then I'm sure I won't remember any of this tomorrow.
aka... waste of my time... no one cares.
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dantes inferno
Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2006.12.09 19:29:00 -
[31]
i wonder how gm even fits in a cap ship with the size of his misplaced ego
RAM is recruiting |

Darth Vroevl
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Posted - 2006.12.09 19:39:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Spix 'UK & dont care as much to prove to my self
Originally by: Spix 'UK I have slept with more girls then you
Does not compute  |

Robet Oneagle
Minmatar Starfield United Technologies LLP
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Posted - 2006.12.09 21:06:00 -
[33]
All we need is a link to the ginger tractor beam BPO pic and we're done.
Originally by: Deakin Frost Hell, I even see light bending around your posts...
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Xoduse
Beasts of Burden Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2006.12.09 21:06:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Xoduse on 09/12/2006 21:06:52
Originally by: Spix 'UK Edited by: Spix ''UK on 09/12/2006 18:44:47
Originally by: Ginger Magician LOL. Amazing where a bit of casual smack ends up isnt it. Was interesting to see your skills on the site quoted by the isd mr rabbit. I didnt realise u had so many skillpoints and I have in fact never even heard of u cause your a nobody in eve apart from your skillpoints it seems. However after careful comparision of our skills I can comfortably say that u would die to have my drone and gunnery skills u cant fly a capital ship and u have wasted considerable skillpoints in level 5 learning skills and mixed spaceships skills including even having gallente industrial level 5. Dont ever fight me 1v1.
Yes but GM .. I have slept with more girls then you , better looking then you , & dont care as much to prove to my self among the many many computer geeks which play Eve,, so really am not impressed that you sit on ur single bed in ur mums & dads house.. owning players on a MMO you proper uber leet .. player you ..
p.s who cant spell.. or very very lazy to type in game it seems..
& no I not been poded but yes lost a cept to some snowy corp thingy once in that local.
EXACTLY what I was thinking.
I much prefer my beautiful girlfriend, job, and nice car over being famous in an MMORPG.
Eve is FUN dont get me wrong, but there are greater things to life than wasting away in front of a computer screen 23/7 Ginger Magician. ---------------------
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Araxmas
Caldari Imperial Space Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.09 21:25:00 -
[35]
Is Gm 10 years old or something? or does he just misspell and use out-dated smack like 'noob'. --------
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CaptainSeafort
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2006.12.09 22:18:00 -
[36]
known lofty since before his "infamy", and seen lots about him on forums. conversly, ive NEVER seen/heard anything about ginger magician, and believe me - id remember a name like that.
just strikes me as the guy from pwned.nl or whatever the hell it was.
"nyuk nyuk, ill get my carrier out, and try to raise my stats on the servor nyuk nyuk. OMFG! HE KILLED ME! HES SUCH A CHEATER! im calling the admin on that cheating noob****. oh em gee!"
"Planets and moons no longer hitch rides on player ships. Their towel privileges have been revoked." HHGG Lives on in EVE! |

Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.09 22:32:00 -
[37]
Heh, GM always makes me giggle. So 1990's  -----------------------------------------------
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Erdain
Umbra Congregatio
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Posted - 2006.12.09 23:26:00 -
[38]
Back when I was doing missions out of Evati, I used to run into Ginger Magician quite a bit. I believe at that time (it's been years now) he was using smartbombs as him primary attack mechanism?
In either case, I never actually died to him, but he gave me the run for my money a few times. I have nothing but respect for him, he brings a unique flavor to the game. If you've never met him I recommend it.
Ginger's My hero Rock*Out |

Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.09 23:59:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 10/12/2006 00:02:53
Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Brotekk
Even-Flow
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Posted - 2006.12.10 00:34:00 -
[40]
Thats not Ego Ginger is showing, It's denial =) "Vitoc, Is it in you?" -Gheytorade chemicals
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2006.12.10 00:34:00 -
[41]
+1
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Zell
Caldari The Black Raptors
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Posted - 2006.12.10 00:52:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Zell on 10/12/2006 00:52:26
Originally by: Robet Oneagle All we need is a link to the ginger tractor beam BPO pic and we're done.
With pleasure... :)
"Ginger Magician is just a nublet. I've met more people ingame that have laughed about him, than anyone else in Eve."
"A coward dies a thousand times, the brave die just once.." |

Tobias Sjodin
Caldari Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.10 01:55:00 -
[43]
Looks like Ginger will fly his pod tonight:
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=corp&name=White-Noise&id=557842&page=1&filter=kills#mail
Good job White-Noise!
[OMG! SMASH!] |

Raem Civrie
Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.10 02:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
Dont ever fight me 1v1.
I honestly doubt NTR would ever have to stoop to that level.
Sure, you're better known than him, but that's largely because people have started using your name in place of expressions like "lol".
A: "... and then he took off his mask, and it was a chimpanzee!" B: "Ginger Magician!"
----
Where's my soup? |

Dark Kavar
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Posted - 2006.12.10 02:18:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Looks like Ginger will fly his pod tonight:
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=corp&name=White-Noise&id=557842&page=1&filter=kills#mail
Good job White-Noise!
Ya i showed up right when they finished, the wreck was pretty cool looking, unfortunetly i forgot to take a screen shot
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Spix 'UK
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Posted - 2006.12.10 09:48:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Darth Vroevl
Originally by: Spix 'UK & dont care as much to prove to my self
Originally by: Spix 'UK I have slept with more girls then you
Does not compute 
Clever lad you can cut & paste .. Grats to you :)
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CaptainSeafort
Gallente Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2006.12.10 10:23:00 -
[47]
Edited by: CaptainSeafort on 10/12/2006 10:23:43 hehe, sorry to phish stick (if that is who the sigs from, i saw this ages back) but this is ginger magician. but slightly more honourable, cool, and modest.
"Planets and moons no longer hitch rides on player ships. Their towel privileges have been revoked." HHGG Lives on in EVE! |

Tearulie
White-Noise
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Posted - 2006.12.10 10:35:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin Looks like Ginger will fly his pod tonight:
http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=corp&name=White-Noise&id=557842&page=1&filter=kills#mail
Good job White-Noise!
Thanks tobias, but it wouldnt have happend without the support of the guys that hired us.
Raging Phoenix Incorporated deserves as much credit as we do. It was there idea, there money in play we just brought in a strategy and support.
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DahMainMan
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Posted - 2006.12.10 15:26:00 -
[49]
Hah
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Jane Vladmir
Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2006.12.10 15:35:00 -
[50]
Ginger is craazy.
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ParMizaN
Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2006.12.10 16:48:00 -
[51]
An injector on a carrier???
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Gazhul Kijeki
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Posted - 2006.12.10 17:01:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Gazhul Kijeki on 10/12/2006 17:01:48 Poor Ginger. =[
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Manny Graetz
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Posted - 2006.12.10 17:02:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Manny Graetz on 10/12/2006 17:08:23 Ginger as he looks a few seconds before exploding (already logged off to make the great pod escape)
Love, Manny |

ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2006.12.10 17:04:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Ginger Magician LOL. Amazing where a bit of casual smack ends up isnt it. Was interesting to see your skills on the site quoted by the isd mr rabbit. I didnt realise u had so many skillpoints and I have in fact never even heard of u cause your a nobody in eve apart from your skillpoints it seems. However after careful comparision of our skills I can comfortably say that u would die to have my drone and gunnery skills u cant fly a capital ship and u have wasted considerable skillpoints in level 5 learning skills and mixed spaceships skills including even having gallente industrial level 5. Dont ever fight me 1v1.
I seem to recall a battlecruiser killing you when you attacked him under the sentries.
Skillpoints are irrelevant.
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Scouty McScouter
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Posted - 2006.12.10 17:11:00 -
[55]
lol, you guys do realize that GM probably gets a kick out of the attention right? it doesn't matter if he believes what he says, the way he does it makes EVE a hell of a lot more interesting to him, and makes great flamebait on the forums. like it or not, the guy's got style and knows how to have fun.  My my my. Oops I just died again. What a good pie rat you are! |

Paladineguru
Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.10 17:39:00 -
[56]
*points at ginger
     
figures a newb like that would log to save his pod too.
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DefJam101
Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.10 19:34:00 -
[57]
lol Ginger Magician is funneh 
Too bad he's actually serious when he talks ***
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Ginger Magician
Minmatar OctoberSnow Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.13 08:19:00 -
[58]
2006.12.13 08:12 For your termination of Brotekk we have paid you the bounty that was set to his head: 10,000.00 ISK
Be very careful what u post about me.

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Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.13 08:29:00 -
[59]
ginger megs is just famous for being famous
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |

DOGNOSH
Minmatar Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.12.13 08:32:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Araxmas Is Gm 10 years old or something? or does he just misspell and use out-dated smack like 'noob'.
Outdated
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Beowulf Scheafer
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.13 08:52:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Goncyn I'm 99% certain that's not the original player of Ginger Magician. Check my corp history. 
many of the old characters are not the same anymore... sad, but true. maybe one reason is the nowadays exorbitant price you can get on ebay for a 50+ SP character... sad, but true.
the chat is really funny, but i agree, the one that has written that does not seem to play the game for like 3.5 years...
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