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Josette Dugas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
5
   |
Posted - 2015.08.16 13:22:26 -
[1] - Quote
I was reading another thread on freighter bumping and one of the posters said: "Avoiding being bumped is as simple as having someone web you to warp".
Could anyone expand on this a bit? What is involved in "webbing someone to warp"?
What equipment would the escort ship need? Can it be done with two ships in a fleet or do they need to be in the same corp to avoid getting an aggressor tick from concord?
Any advice would be helpful. I would like to start doing some freighter hauling but with the bump mechanic as it is it seems like a loser game (unless something has changed recently).
Thanks in advance. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
702
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 13:35:47 -
[2] - Quote
Your post seems a little all over and I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but I'll explain how people used to web big ships into warp. The mechanic has changed a little. It still works but I've heard not as well as it used to. I'll be honest I've not tried it in years but here is the explanation of the mechanics anyway.
So the prerequisites for entering warp are that you need to be aligned to your destination within ( I believe ) 5% and moving at least 75% of your current speed. I also believe that there is a maximum on that speed but am uncertain and since it does not pertain to this discussion won't mention it further.
So basically if you ship is aligned and you waiting for your speed to go up and then you web the ship it's current potential max speed will become about 60% less so you will likely enter warp immediately but at the very least faster.
Bumping is when you ram into a ship that is trying to enter warp in order to keep if from aligning thus preventing if from warping. |
Josette Dugas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 13:53:22 -
[3] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Your post seems a little all over and I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but I'll explain how people used to web big ships into warp. The mechanic has changed a little. It still works but I've heard not as well as it used to. I'll be honest I've not tried it in years but here is the explanation of the mechanics anyway.
So the prerequisites for entering warp are that you need to be aligned to your destination within ( I believe ) 5% and moving at least 75% of your current speed. I also believe that there is a maximum on that speed but am uncertain and since it does not pertain to this discussion won't mention it further.
So basically if you ship is aligned and you waiting for your speed to go up and then you web the ship it's current potential max speed will become about 60% less so you will likely enter warp immediately but at the very least faster.
Bumping is when you ram into a ship that is trying to enter warp in order to keep if from aligning thus preventing if from warping.
But when you say web are you talking about the escort ship locking on you and engaging a stasis web? I guess that's what I'm not sure about. So you are saying that if you are aligned and try to gain speed with a big ship having an ally put a stasis web on you will move you into warp a lot quicker?
What I am trying to avoid is getting caught by a small ship camping at a gate and bumping my fighter around pretty much for as long as they feel like with no real recourse other than to enjoy the spin and wait for the gank squad :) |
David Therman
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
88
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 14:23:29 -
[4] - Quote
Josette Dugas wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Your post seems a little all over and I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but I'll explain how people used to web big ships into warp. The mechanic has changed a little. It still works but I've heard not as well as it used to. I'll be honest I've not tried it in years but here is the explanation of the mechanics anyway.
So the prerequisites for entering warp are that you need to be aligned to your destination within ( I believe ) 5% and moving at least 75% of your current speed. I also believe that there is a maximum on that speed but am uncertain and since it does not pertain to this discussion won't mention it further.
So basically if you ship is aligned and you waiting for your speed to go up and then you web the ship it's current potential max speed will become about 60% less so you will likely enter warp immediately but at the very least faster.
Bumping is when you ram into a ship that is trying to enter warp in order to keep if from aligning thus preventing if from warping. But when you say web are you talking about the escort ship locking on you and engaging a stasis web? I guess that's what I'm not sure about. So you are saying that if you are aligned and try to gain speed with a big ship having an ally put a stasis web on you will move you into warp a lot quicker? What I am trying to avoid is getting caught by a small ship camping at a gate and bumping my fighter around pretty much for as long as they feel like with no real recourse other than to enjoy the spin and wait for the gank squad :)
Pretty much, but seeing as a standard meta/t2 web has a range of 10km, it's preferable if you use a ship that has a bonus to web range, because you can end up de-cloaking further away then that more often then not... and that few seconds of having your escort get into range could make all the difference. Something like the Cruor, if you don't have the SP for a Huginn/Loki. Oh, and it's also best if you fit 2/3 webs, 1 alone won't get it into warp instantly.
In answer to aggression/weapon timers, just invite your escort to a duel; that particular timer lasts 5 minutes from the moment you stop agressing each-other, which should be long enough to cover each jump.
Hope that helps.  |
Jack Hayson
Atztech Inc.
Ixtab.
280
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 14:30:43 -
[5] - Quote
Josette Dugas wrote:But when you say web are you talking about the escort ship locking on you and engaging a stasis web?
Yes.
You need to be moving at 75% of yourmaximum speed for entering warp.
Let's imagine your ship can fly 100m/s and needs 10 seconds to accelerate to that speed.
To go into warp you'd need to accelerate to 75m/s which would take 7.5 seconds. (in reality it's not linear, but let's disregard that)
Now you have a webbing alt. A web reduces your maximum speed by 60%.
So when webbed your top speed would be 40m/s and your minimum speed for warping 30m/s.
You start accelerating (without being webbed) up to 30m/s in 3 seconds and THEN you apply webs which reduces your maximum speed and as such your minimum speed for warping. Since the webifier doesn't reduce your current speed you are now able to enter warp and only needed 3 seconds of acceleration.
With stronger webs it's even faster. |
Kairos Antilles
Project Kairos
The Bastion
61
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 14:42:57 -
[6] - Quote
David Therman wrote:Josette Dugas wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Your post seems a little all over and I'm not sure exactly what you are asking but I'll explain how people used to web big ships into warp. The mechanic has changed a little. It still works but I've heard not as well as it used to. I'll be honest I've not tried it in years but here is the explanation of the mechanics anyway.
So the prerequisites for entering warp are that you need to be aligned to your destination within ( I believe ) 5% and moving at least 75% of your current speed. I also believe that there is a maximum on that speed but am uncertain and since it does not pertain to this discussion won't mention it further.
So basically if you ship is aligned and you waiting for your speed to go up and then you web the ship it's current potential max speed will become about 60% less so you will likely enter warp immediately but at the very least faster.
Bumping is when you ram into a ship that is trying to enter warp in order to keep if from aligning thus preventing if from warping. But when you say web are you talking about the escort ship locking on you and engaging a stasis web? I guess that's what I'm not sure about. So you are saying that if you are aligned and try to gain speed with a big ship having an ally put a stasis web on you will move you into warp a lot quicker? What I am trying to avoid is getting caught by a small ship camping at a gate and bumping my fighter around pretty much for as long as they feel like with no real recourse other than to enjoy the spin and wait for the gank squad :) Pretty much, but seeing as a standard meta/t2 web has a range of 10km, it's preferable if you use a ship that has a bonus to web range, because you can end up de-cloaking further away then that more often then not... and that few seconds of having your escort get into range could make all the difference. Something like the Cruor, if you don't have the SP for a Huginn/Loki. Oh, and it's also best if you fit 2/3 webs, 1 alone won't get it into warp instantly. In answer to aggression/weapon timers, just invite your escort to a duel; that particular timer lasts 5 minutes from the moment you stop agressing each-other, which should be long enough to cover each jump. Hope that helps.
Hyena with double-webs - fully skilled in Electronic Attack Ships will net a 30km web range. When jumping between regions, you can end up ~60km from your freighter - will need to try to burn toward the freighter BEFORE giving the freighter the command to warp to the next gate, and maintain cloak until the webber is in range.
A targeting rig to shorten lock time even more doesn't hurt either.
edit: Also, wait for the freighter to hit warp velocity (the target lock will disappear) before sending the webber onward - it is possible to disengage the webs due to warping before the freighter goes into warp, leaving it vulnerable while the webber speeds away. |
Josette Dugas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 15:32:40 -
[7] - Quote
All very good suggestions, but doesn't it seem to b a lot to go through to counter a frig from bumping you for like forever
Thank you all |
Do Little
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
111
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 16:34:07 -
[8] - Quote
Webbing works because your ship is stopped and omni-aligned when it lands at a gate. If a freighter has a top speed of 100 m/s a 60% web will reduce that to 40 m/s and a second 60% web will reduce it to 16 m/s. You will warp at 75% of top speed or 12 m/s - practically instant, even with a freighter. Because you are omni-aligned after jumping, there is no wait while the ship aligns - you can warp sideways or even backwards.
If a freighter is already moving, this doesn't work - you need to wait while it aligns so you can't web after undocking or after you have been bumped.
If you are being bumped, first step is right click your ship in space and click "stop my ship".
Second step is adjust your camera so you are looking forward over the back of the ship.
If there is something dead ahead or a few degrees off your bow - right click it and warp. Because the bump will have you travelling at top speed, you should warp instantly. If you don't, stop your ship again after the next bump and try again. There is a lot of junk in space - asteroid belts, anomalies, planets, etc... even a good bumper will eventually align you to something you can warp to.
Another option is to right click on your ship and select "log off safely". You will need to stop your ship and turn off any active modules first. As long as you don't have an aggression timer - and you shouldn't, bumping is not considered an aggressive act under the rules of the game, your ship will leave space in 30 seconds. Get a friend to scout the system before you log back in.
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
Low-Class
1312
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 17:49:35 -
[9] - Quote
do note that if you are above 100% of your maximum speed, you will not warp until you get under that |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
704
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 01:28:23 -
[10] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:do note that if you are above 100% of your maximum speed, you will not warp until you get under that
I think that the number is over 100%. It's like 105% or 125% but conceptually I think you are correct. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
704
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 01:52:34 -
[11] - Quote
Everything people are saying about small ships getting to a freighter quicker I doubt will make a difference. A freighter takes a while to Align. anything smaller than a BS should be able to make it within web range in plenty of time. As for bonused webs and multiple webs, I doubt it will make a difference.
You have to keep in mind align time. iirc that is what changed. Ships used to instantly align and the graphic of it happening slowly was just that a graphic only and had nothing to do with the mechanic. We used to have freighters warping sideways back in the day. Now-a-day however I'm pretty sure that there is an actual align time and someone can correct me if I am wrong but I think the web can slow down your align time as well. So now if you web before you are aligned I believe it can work against you.
Also I'm pretty sure that it takes longer to align than it does to get to a speed that is 75% of 60% of your max un-webbed speed or 45% of your max, un-webbed speed.
And as far as preventing bumping I think the web would only make that worse since it would increase your align time.
As a disclaimer this is my understanding of how it works one that is backed up with a minor amount of playing around with the mechanic before and after the warp changes but that is going back years so my information could be wrong or outdated. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
5260
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 02:30:10 -
[12] - Quote
So I don't have to do the math again:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4922702#post4922702 |
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium.
CODE.
5259
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 04:19:08 -
[13] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:do note that if you are above 100% of your maximum speed, you will not warp until you get under that I think that the number is over 100%. It's like 105% or 125% but conceptually I think you are correct.
I also believe it to be 125% but am not certain.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Josette Dugas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 13:16:42 -
[14] - Quote
Do Little wrote: .... snip
Another option is to right click on your ship and select "log off safely". You will need to stop your ship and turn off any active modules first. As long as you don't have an aggression timer - and you shouldn't, bumping is not considered an aggressive act under the rules of the game, your ship will leave space in 30 seconds. Get a friend to scout the system before you log back in.
Actually this seems like the best all around option, my escort can simply sit back and monitor the warp out. Are there any downsides? What if the bumpers friends show up and start to open fire, am I then a sitting duck? Can the bumper start the aggression timer by shooting at me? I'm not very savvy about this mechanic and I don;t want to learn at the expense f the ship :)
Also could my escort help by counter bumping the bumper? |
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
464
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 14:03:37 -
[15] - Quote
Counter bumping a bumper is incredibly difficult - you're aiming for a faster moving, smaller, more agile target than the bumper is having to.
Logging off removes all SP bonuses to your ship, so results in a reduction of EHP as you lose your shield and armour skills, so should a safe-log off fail, you should log back in to regain those bonuses.
If you log off and get aggressed (which they will do, usually with a crappy disposable rookie ship), you will then warp off grid but remain in space whilst your aggression timer ends, the gankers will probe you down and continue bumping/chaining aggression timers as required whilst they gather more pilots for an actual gank.
If you're already being bumped, the chances of survival/rescue are incredibly slim - prevention is better than the cure.
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1196
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 16:58:45 -
[16] - Quote
Make sure your limited engagement hasn't expired if you are using duel requests to web a character in a different corp. It's best to leave your safety on at least yellow for this. I may/may not have experienced a hilarious (sad) Rapier loss to CONCORD a few months ago. 
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1431
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 18:05:57 -
[17] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:do note that if you are above 100% of your maximum speed, you will not warp until you get under that I think that the number is over 100%. It's like 105% or 125% but conceptually I think you are correct. I also believe it to be 125% but am not certain.
I'm not sure that is a mechanic. align with mwd on, turn off, still insta warp, for extra lulz use an oversized mwd. That said there may be an issue with warping to a place where you are not already aligned to, as I think there are some agility issues. going 1600m/s and getting webbed down to 12m/s and trying to warp out will take a while. but if you are already aligned it usually goes quick. and if you aren't moving it takes the same amount of time.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
5264
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 18:56:40 -
[18] - Quote
I'm not aware of having to slow-down to warp.
This would affect a lot of ships if it existed, and certainly be annoying, and widely hated.
Alignment (+/- 2 degrees) would be a more likely factor. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
Low-Class
1314
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 22:40:55 -
[19] - Quote
i think its fine if you're fully aligned to something already, however if you're a tiny bit off I've always found you'll never warp when above your max speed |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation
Holy Arumbian Empire
1915
|
Posted - 2015.08.18 09:09:34 -
[20] - Quote
I don't think that 125% thing exists. 5 degrees is a very tiny cone, and if your ship is massive enough with a high enough inertia modifier, it will have an exceedingly difficult time turning while moving over max speed preventing the warp.
Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
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Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
72
|
Posted - 2015.08.18 10:50:12 -
[21] - Quote
If you do it right then it works just fine simply because it takes more time to approach and bump a freighter than it takes to target and web him (assuming you have the web range, ie Hyena). The trick is, of course, doing it RIGHT.
Jump both hyena and freighter through the gate, approach the gate with Hyena so the freighter WILL be in web range as it uncloaks. Click warp on the Freighter, target freighter, wait 1-2 seconds, double web. It's not difficult. |
Josette Dugas
The Scope
Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2015.08.18 11:15:18 -
[22] - Quote
Wow my head is spinning  [grin] ... This bumping sure triggers a lot of math for something that won't draw a second look form concord let alone some kind of aggression sanction.
Would it just be easier to go back through the gate or can the bumper prevent that as well? And why can a tiny little frigate or rookie ship bump a massive freighter around so easy ? I'm not anything like a physics major but shouldn't it take something bigger to throw the freighter off it's course so easy?
I would test it myself but I'm waiting to get a few skills up to 5 before I start fooling around with the fighter. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc.
Low-Class
1316
|
Posted - 2015.08.18 12:49:23 -
[23] - Quote
A frigate won't bump a freighter very well.
Most people do bumping in oversized AB cruisers or a machariel. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24826
|
Posted - 2015.08.18 13:04:23 -
[24] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:A frigate won't bump a freighter very well.
Most people do bumping in oversized AB cruisers or a machariel. For the newbies reading a Machariel is a Pirate Battleship, big, relatively expensive, and very very fast if fitted correctly.
Think of a something with the minimum mass of 95,000 tonnes travelling at 2-2.5km per second, that's a Machariel; for comparison 100,000 tonnes is the mass of a modern aircraft carrier such as the USS Theodore Roosevelt.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation
Holy Arumbian Empire
1918
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 08:39:25 -
[25] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:A frigate won't bump a freighter very well.
Most people do bumping in oversized AB cruisers or a machariel.
Oversized MWD, not AB
Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
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Jasmin Molotov
Crowned in Terror
20
|
Posted - 2015.08.21 12:24:09 -
[26] - Quote
Josette Dugas wrote:Would it just be easier to go back through the gate or can the bumper prevent that as well?
Freighters are so slow that a half decent bumper can literally make you go backwards if he so desires. With a max speed of ~100m/s it would take you about three minutes to travel the 15km to the gate, that's more then enough time for any dirty deeds the gankers may have in store. |
Adamai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.05 19:24:40 -
[27] - Quote
web you to warp!!!!
simple a web reduces the targets over all speed meaning the time to reach optimal warp velocity is reduced meaning you can enter warp faster... the more webs the sooner you can warp.. this is really only ever used on freighters as everything else has jump drives. |
Adamai
The Scope
Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.05 19:29:43 -
[28] - Quote
Josette Dugas wrote:Wow my head is spinning [grin] ... This bumping sure triggers a lot of math for something that won't draw a second look from concord let alone some kind of aggression sanction. Would it just be easier to go back through the gate or can the bumper prevent that as well? And why can a tiny little frigate or rookie ship bump a massive freighter around so easy ? I'm not anything like a physics major but shouldn't it take something bigger to throw the freighter off it's course so easy? I would test it myself but I'm waiting to get a few skills up to 5 before I start fooling around with the freighter.
in space.. mass doesnt really mean anything, its the velocity of the object that matters. its why a grain of sand can rip straight through the hull of a shuttle and break it up. and yes any kind of negative force in space would make an impact. cause the frieghter engines and speed is so low it suffers a bit more than other ships. though eve space is not entirely accurate as mass in this game does play a part in bumping.. if truth be told.. any kind of collision should result in ship destruction or serious damage to both ships. eve should add this to the game for sure and bumping will stop. or ships will become a new weapon type. and perhaps a heavy buffer tank fitted hac with an mwd could cause much damage to a capital ship. |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1480
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 00:12:13 -
[29] - Quote
Adamai wrote:
in space.. mass doesnt really mean anything, its the velocity of the object that matters.
Actually in the real world its momentum which is mass x velocity.
But the physics in EVE is actually based on rubber ducks in a bath tub not real world physics.
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