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Miabo
Fatalix Inc.
Schism.
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Posted - 2006.12.09 23:03:00 -
[1]
So i'm just now trying out the whole salvaging thing while ratting and it's a little tedious to do. It takes a while to salvage a can considering my salvage skill is only at level 1, but what kind of ISK do these things go for? I know that they just came out and the market is probably still not stable for them but any kind of rough estimate would help out.
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Brolly
Caldari
The Department of Justice
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Posted - 2006.12.09 23:08:00 -
[2]
rigs atm are going for 100's of millions or even billions of isk at some places, it's pretty hardcore atm. New patch on wednesday may have some benefits.
If the drops are not fixed you can see them costing tens on millions, maybe
/me hopes the above does not come back to haunt him 
If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt |
Tao Han
Caldari
Earth Day Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.09 23:28:00 -
[3]
Selling a Current Pump for 25mill felt pretty good to me 
Saving the world, one bottle at the time |
Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.09 23:37:00 -
[4]
The salvage parts started on the market at around 1M or so and the best deals I've seen have been at 20M or so.
So, yea.
The price will go down though, when CCP improve the rate the parts drop.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Jezick
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Posted - 2006.12.10 12:54:00 -
[5]
If you decide to keep the salvaged gear this might help you when it comes to build time.
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0612/Salvage_calculator1_1.zip
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Jei'son Bladesmith
Caldari
Bladesmith Mining and Development Consortium
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Posted - 2006.12.10 20:11:00 -
[6]
Right now rig parts and rigs are like any new tech - the first prices are insane but as more salvaged gear hits the market they will eventually even out to more reasonable prices. Remember the whole price fiasco when the new ships came out? One guy in local was bragging about how he paid "only" 200 mil isk for his drake...now you can get em for a quarter of that price.
Same things gonna hapen with rigs and parts, as people get more and more they're gonna start selling there surplus, and as supply rises prices will drop dramatically. I'm not going to pretend I know enough to predict the eventual price ranges but I'd hazard a guess at seeing them at least 10 times cheaper than they are now.
I want rigs as much as the next guy, but paying 20 mil for equipment that probably will probably end up costing 2 mil (or that you can build yourself with some effort) is just kinda silly. Then again if somebody's got the budget and wants em sooner, they got as much right to buy em now as I do to wait and buy ten of em later
*** Not Just Cool...Warp to 0 Cool *** |
Alaric Rurk
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Posted - 2006.12.11 09:01:00 -
[7]
I don't think it's the rate of the drops that need to be increased, otherwise it's going to start raining components in space.
I think the blueprints should be changed to require fewer components. |
DaRuLe
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.12.11 09:20:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Alaric Rurk
I don't think it's the rate of the drops that need to be increased, otherwise it's going to start raining components in space.
I think the blueprints should be changed to require fewer components.
My idea exactly, but only like 30% less requirement. Rigs should be expensive just like implants. I've already got like 120 of one type. That's just a few hours worth salvaging. If you don't train up to at least salvaging level 4 stop whining people. What is it you want? 5% chance or 20+% chance?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.11 09:27:00 -
[9]
The "salvage problem" is actually comprised of several smaller problems, and the answer/solution to that problem is actually still a big unknown.
To be more precise here, we need to establish the following "things", then compute backwards to reach the answer.
1. HOW MUCH would you actually expect to pay for a rig ?
As in, assuming plenty of supply is available for all possible rigs and components on the market, how much WOULD you be willing to pay, on average, for a rig ?
Let's assume for a while that magic price is 20 mil ISK average per T1 rig.
2. How much ISK/hour do you expect an average EVE empire highsec player (4-7 months old) to earn doing whatever it is he is usually doing ?
That includes any alternatives for ISK income OTHER than salvaging: mining, trade, manufacture, missioning, etc.
Let's say 10 mil ISK/hour spent online, because it's a pretty low figure but marginally acceptable.
Now, if you have THOSE two answers (not necessarily the figures I mentioned), you can "compute" when salvaging is worth it.
So, you need about 250 components for a rig (usually more, depending of manufacture waste), therefore ONE component used must cost on average a bit under 80k ISK.
Sadly, you need much more circuits than you need anything else, and circuits drop rates are still abysmally slow... well, they "promised" in patch notes they're heavily boosting them, but I have this feeling they'll still be way below the "proper" ratios of "much more of each circuit than any other components" that would allow prices to stabilize to (rougly) simiar levels for all components.
Assume for a minute they somehow DO balance that properly on dec 13th. Just assume, humour me for a minute.
So, with expected sales of 80k ISK per component, and 10 mil ISK/hour expected income, you'd have to salvage 125 components per hour to break even.
Right now, you can salvage roughly 40-60 components per hour trailing a mission-runner's wreckage field (assuming he lets you salvage "for free", without any tax or shared profits), so they'd pretty much have to at least double (but preferably triple) component drops from wrecks on average, then and only then salvaging MIGHT be marginally profitable.
_____
Summarizing... yes, for the time being, in this high-demand, insignificant supply world of rigging, salvaging CAN be marginally lucrative, but only if you "trail" a few friendly mission runners and undercut other salvagers in prices.
But in the long run, unless circuit droprates are boosted by at least a relative +3000% (no, there's not too many zeroes there) and also general drop rate increased by +200%... then no, salvaging would NOT be "worth it" compared to pretty much anything else... and even than, again, only in cooperation with friendly mission runners that let you split the profit by taking a chore off their backs.
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Xsag
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.12.11 09:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: DaRuLe
Originally by: Alaric Rurk
I don't think it's the rate of the drops that need to be increased, otherwise it's going to start raining components in space.
I think the blueprints should be changed to require fewer components.
My idea exactly, but only like 30% less requirement. Rigs should be expensive just like implants. I've already got like 120 of one type. That's just a few hours worth salvaging. If you don't train up to at least salvaging level 4 stop whining people. What is it you want? 5% chance or 20+% chance?
wrong wrong wrong
if rigs where meant to be expensive why would bpo's for rigs cost 100K? we both know the answer to that - and its a simple one - drop rates where always meant to be higher - capitalise on the high prices while u can imo
~n00b of all trades~
~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~
~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
Luke Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2006.12.11 10:11:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Luke Pubcrawler on 11/12/2006 10:15:06
Edited by: Luke Pubcrawler on 11/12/2006 10:14:15
Quote:
Let's say 10 mil ISK/hour spent online, because it's a pretty low figure but marginally acceptable.
Actually I don't need a return from salvaging that even approaches this figure.
Firstly I don't expect to earn 10mill an hour whatever I do - 3-4 mill an hour is acceptable although more is always nice. I don't fly level 4s but can still salvage from 3s.
Secondly salvaged components are a byproducrt from my main activilty. I rat and run missions. The rewards, LP and loot are the main source of income. Salvaged items are a bonus and cost me nothing to acquire.
Instead of flying lvl2s in a cruiser I now fly them in a hurricane - similar firepower, better tank, plus 2 salvagers and a tractor. The missins take as long, I get about the same lootas before but the salvaged items are free. I dont bother salvaging distant wreacks only those close enough to loot. With the 13th patch which will tell me which wreacks have loot I will only restrict savaging further.
As far as I am concerned salvage items are effectively freebies.
As side note I have so far sold about 25 circuits for exorbitant sums to people silly ehough to pay.
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Dra0cht
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Posted - 2006.12.11 11:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: DaRuLe
Rigs should be expensive just like implants.
According to whom exactly?
Rig slots on T1 frigs/cruisers etc, 3 per, and 'rigs should be expensive'?
In your dreams mebbe 
In case you havent noticed T2 ships only get 2 rigs per, so the reality is, CCP will make it so that T2 ships will no longer be the I-Win button, and of course, T1 rig prices will very soon cheap as chips. If you're wanting to price gouge, you'd better do real soon
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keepiru
Supernova Security Systems
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Posted - 2006.12.11 11:39:00 -
[13]
Oveur said on EVETV that they want T1 rigs to be very common, so expect them to tune the build costs and drop rates until they sell for a few mil each.
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Where are the scan probe BPOs? |
Wotar
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Posted - 2006.12.11 11:41:00 -
[14]
Reading patch notes ftw
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.11 12:05:00 -
[15]
Quote:
* The material amount received from salvaging has been increased based on ship classes, i.e. more salvage material will be received from a battleship than a frigate.
* The chance of receiving Circuits as salvage material and the quantities dropped have been greatly increased.
There's 11 "classes" of rigs, 11 types of non-circuit components (by the way, Armor Plates don't seem to be used in anything, it seems, even if they do drop a lot) and only 4 types of circuits.
Circuits are used on average in about 5:1 ratio compared to other components in rig construction.
And you need two types (out of 4) of circuits and only one other component (out of 11) in 5:5:2 total ratios for a rig, ON AVERAGE.
You can safely say that, on average, you need to have the drops of EACH circuit (11/2)*5 to 2 compared to any other component.
In other words, almost 14 times MORE of EACH circuit compared to ANY OTHER salvage material.
Or, to be more precise, 550 of EACH of the 4 circuits and 40 of each of the 3 "specific" materials out of every 2320 components dropped.
Then, and only then, would you have the "proper" drop ratio.
Right now, it's about max 2 (but usually you're lucky if you get 1) of each circuit for 10+ of every other component, so a 1:5 to 1:10 drop ratio compared to the needed 14:1 ratio (70 to 140 times *less* as it should be).
I guess if they increase circuit drop rates about a HUNDRED fold in this patch, they just about hit the right number.
And keep the rest of the "specific" drops like now.
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Xsag
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.12.11 12:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T
Quote:
* The material amount received from salvaging has been increased based on ship classes, i.e. more salvage material will be received from a battleship than a frigate.
* The chance of receiving Circuits as salvage material and the quantities dropped have been greatly increased.
There's 11 "classes" of rigs, 11 types of non-circuit components (by the way, Armor Plates don't seem to be used in anything, it seems, even if they do drop a lot) and only 4 types of circuits.
Circuits are used on average in about 5:1 ratio compared to other components in rig construction.
And you need two types (out of 4) of circuits and only one other component (out of 11) in 5:5:2 total ratios for a rig, ON AVERAGE.
You can safely say that, on average, you need to have the drops of EACH circuit (11/2)*5 to 2 compared to any other component.
In other words, almost 14 times MORE of EACH circuit compared to ANY OTHER salvage material.
Or, to be more precise, 550 of EACH of the 4 circuits and 40 of each of the 3 "specific" materials out of every 2320 components dropped.
Then, and only then, would you have the "proper" drop ratio.
Right now, it's about max 2 (but usually you're lucky if you get 1) of each circuit for 10+ of every other component, so a 1:5 to 1:10 drop ratio compared to the needed 14:1 ratio (70 to 140 times *less* as it should be).
I guess if they increase circuit drop rates about a HUNDRED fold in this patch, they just about hit the right number.
And keep the rest of the "specific" drops like now.
yup anyone else noticed that circuit board prices are starting to drop?
i fortunately made a quick 15m out of circuit boards i had once i heard about this new patch (i know that might be chicken feed to alot of u but its a big deal to a n00by player me)
i think you will find that the non-circuit board parts will rise in value after the patch
imo
~n00b of all trades~
~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~
~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.11 13:17:00 -
[17]
As soon as they go all under 200k ISK a piece average I'm starting to trade'em for what I need 
The only problem tho' will be T2 rig components... now, THERE the market will be NASTY.
Officer/Commander and T2 player ship wrecks only, AFAIK.
So ok, you only need about 40 components total for a T2 rig (not 250 or so as for T1), but still... ouch.
_
My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Xsag
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2006.12.11 14:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Akita T
As soon as they go all under 200k ISK a piece average I'm starting to trade'em for what I need
The only problem tho' will be T2 rig components... now, THERE the market will be NASTY.
Officer/Commander and T2 player ship wrecks only, AFAIK.
So ok, you only need about 40 components total for a T2 rig (not 250 or so as for T1), but still... ouch.
after patch on wednesday id wait till friday i think ull find they are MUCH cheaper than 200k by then imo
~n00b of all trades~
~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~
~if im posting on here its cos im in work~ |
Horus Dark
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Posted - 2006.12.11 15:15:00 -
[19]
well...still salvaging takes up some time.
Should atleast be more profitable as leaving all the wrecks and getting another mission.
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