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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4087
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Posted - 2015.08.17 19:18:51 -
[1] - Quote
Hi space folks,
I'm reading lots of stuff about fozziesov etc.
I've spent all of my 2 years in EVE in lowsec so I don't know much about sov and I can't really understand most of the arguments I read about.
Can someone kindly explain to me what are currently the benefits of owning sov? What do you actually get if you own a system or a few?
Excluding the pride of planting your flag on the map of course, which is cool I guess but doesn't give any practical benefits AFAIK.
Thanks!
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Degnar Oskold
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
167
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Posted - 2015.08.17 19:28:15 -
[2] - Quote
Right now it's mostly limited to the ability of your organization to raise funds, which in turn allows you to fund SRP, which allows you to keep doing big fleets, which lets you keep being a big organization.
Sov holding makes money through 1) Cheaper moon operations (moon mining and reactions are the biggest bulk money maker in the game) - POSes where you own SOV get a 25% fuel use discount, which massively impact profitability. 2) Space Rental 2) More secure mining for the higher value minerals 3) More secure ratting
The more systems with good moons you have sov over, the more massive your income is. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2429
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Posted - 2015.08.20 17:09:06 -
[3] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:... Can someone kindly explain to me what are currently the benefits of owning sov? What do you actually get if you own a system or a few?
Let me know when you find out. A lot of us who do are asking the same question these days.
F
Would you like to know more?
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Memphis Baas
501
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Posted - 2015.08.21 00:41:42 -
[4] - Quote
There are certain POS arrays that can only be deployed in (null) sov space:
- (super)capital construction arrays - jump bridge array - cyno jammer
Basically, the space is more protected, linked by jump bridges, and allows the construction of super-capital ships.
In addition, sov space can be "upgraded" to improve the quality of (npc rat) anomalies, DED complexes, and hidden ore belts.
In addition to the above game mechanic benefits, an organized alliance that holds space usually has:
- defense and intel channels that can warn miners / noncombat pilots when pirates are incoming - a defense fleet to hunt said pirates - an established system of standings (reds, neutrals, blues) that makes it very obvious which ships are intruders / enemies - income from high(er) quality moon goo, upgraded anomalies and complexes, higher quality ore - outposts / dockable stations with extensive market supported by jump-freighter logistics pilots - organized ops (roams, wars, etc) - income from renting some of the space to "renter" corporations who pay a fixed sum for access to the space so they can mine or rat with high quality rats/minerals. |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
135
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Posted - 2015.08.21 00:48:44 -
[5] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:... Can someone kindly explain to me what are currently the benefits of owning sov? What do you actually get if you own a system or a few?
Let me know when you find out. A lot of us who do are asking the same question these days. F
pretty much this.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
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Darth Schweinebacke
We're Serious
44
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Posted - 2015.08.21 07:59:19 -
[6] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:There are certain POS arrays that can only be deployed in (null) sov space:
- (super)capital construction arrays - jump bridge array - cyno jammer - income from renting some of the space to "renter" corporations who pay a fixed sum for access to the space so they can mine or rat with high quality rats/minerals.
Basically, the space is more protected, linked by jump bridges, and allows the construction of super-capital ships.
In addition, sov space can be "upgraded" to improve the quality of (npc rat) anomalies, DED complexes, and hidden ore belts.
This part is true... the rest does not really have anything to do with holding sov itself.
- > You do not need sov to live in 0.0 and to organise intel channels. -> You do not need sov to form fleets and hunt hostiles -> You do not need sov to set standings -> You do not need sov to farm moon goo (best examples: PL and NC. who have been farming moon goo for years even at times where they owned 0 Systems and were not part of a major Powerblock) -> You do not need sov to have access to dockable stations in 0.0. You could arrange docking rights with a sov holding alliance or you can just base out of NPC 0.0. -> You do not need sov to organise roams or to set stuff on fire. |
Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
74
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Posted - 2015.08.21 09:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
That's a really easy one. SOV is nothing more than a massive castle you build in the sandbox, toppling over other kid's feeble attempts, bullying them out of the way to make room for your epic construction and then stand on top of it and shout "come at me bros!" real loud. BOB understood this, some others did as well, but the truth is that a large portion of the "fierce 0.0 PVPers" are in fact just carebears as they need a REASON for it and aren't in it for the conflict itself (see the old north like D2, Iron, ASCN but also Goons etc).
"Where's the profit?", "what's the point" is really no different from "what's the point of PVPing?" and that terrible carebear question lead to FW where there's supposed to be mechanics for monetary reasons & gains to PVP which for a sandbox is a terrible concept. Not everyone wants to have a big castle, not everyone has the friends to build that thing, not everyone has the energy to do so and the simple solution to that is: "then don't do it".
The use for nations is war, the use for SOV is conflict :) |
Lulu Lunette
Blue Aurochs United Systems of Aridia
69
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Posted - 2015.08.22 04:55:54 -
[8] - Quote
6 fuel per hour instead of 8.
@lunettelulu7
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16943
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Posted - 2015.08.22 12:23:03 -
[9] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Hi space folks,
I'm reading lots of stuff about fozziesov etc.
I've spent all of my 2 years in EVE in lowsec so I don't know much about sov and I can't really understand most of the arguments I read about.
Can someone kindly explain to me what are currently the benefits of owning sov? What do you actually get if you own a system or a few?
Excluding the pride of planting your flag on the map of course, which is cool I guess but doesn't give any practical benefits AFAIK.
Thanks!
1) Creating new outposts 2) Being able to upgrade outposts to be the best stations at refining/production/research etc 3) Jump Bridges 4) Cyno Jammers 5) Supercapital production 6) Being able to upgrade space to provide more anomalies for mining & ratting 7) Most of all, the ability to turn into a fantastically entitled sulky bitterposting bad
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4089
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Posted - 2015.08.22 13:56:39 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks everyone!
Now, putting aside for a moment the numerous uncertainties on future developments (role of supercaps, citadels, player-built stargates, ...), I have 2 more questions about the current situation:
1) Why are many people complaining that holding sov is worthless? Sure, any of us can think of cooler perks (random examples: building exclusive new subcaps or faction mods) but it looks like the empire-building features one would expect are largely there (improved PVE and industry, and tools to control jumping)
2) Why is it possible to build POS in someone else's sov?
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
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Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
74
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Posted - 2015.08.22 14:19:34 -
[11] - Quote
1) What happened is that all the pvpbears all cuddled up creating bigger and bigger groups because they're really not interested in conflict at all, what they want is a status quo so they can grind in peace. This resulted in such a massive powerblock where everyone in a 20-30 jump range is blue that there is no reason to contest it, first of all because they're all friendlies and, from the other side, because it's just an impossible fortress to take. So their carebear desire for stability and grinding resulted in a boring stalemate, who knew.
They created a monster and instead of fixing what they did wrong they chose to avoid the issue, being the carebears that they are. They won't admit to this of course so instead they will blame the SOV mechanics, ignoring the fact that years ago massive/fun/worthwhile fights actually happened a lot with similar/worse game mechanics. Their desire to not have meaningful and challenging fights resulted in them getting bored and instead of manning up about that and doing something about it they created alts and (to keep in line with their desire to not have challenging fights) decided to gank miners, and thus CODE was born.
2) conflict |
Memphis Baas
502
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Posted - 2015.08.22 14:32:45 -
[12] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote: 1) Why are many people complaining that holding sov is worthless?
2) Why is it possible to build POS in someone else's sov?
1. They're looking at the "cost" of holding the sov (in terms of pilots that have to be there defending for 4 hours against entosys attackers) vs, the benefits of sov. As noted above, alliances can take advantage of null sec space without the sov; the sov just grants the specific bonuses related to supercapital ships. And some consider supercapitals "worthless" since they no longer have a role in taking out the big sov structures, so if they're worthless, why build them, and if one is not building them, why hold sov?
2. To promote conflict and PVP "content". You build the POS, they come to shoot it down, "content". |
Darth Schweinebacke
We're Serious
44
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Posted - 2015.08.22 14:37:48 -
[13] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Thanks everyone!
Now, putting aside for a moment the numerous uncertainties on future developments (role of supercaps, citadels, player-built stargates, ...), I have 2 more questions about the current situation:
1) Why are many people complaining that holding sov is worthless? Sure, any of us can think of cooler perks (random examples: building exclusive new subcaps or faction mods) but it looks like the empire-building features one would expect are largely there (improved PVE and industry, and tools to control jumping)
2) Why is it possible to build POS in someone else's sov?
I can only make assumptions from my own point of view here.
1) Holding Sov can be a lot of work with very little benefits. Sure it is nice to be able to upgrade systems, but I never cared about any form of PvE in 0.0. While I was living in 0.0 I only was living there for PvP and there is not really much of a benefit for you, if you only care about shooting other ppl. As I was in PL pretty much no member of the alliance cared about being able to upgrade systems to get more ISK from PvP activites. Ship replacement programs can be run from alliance taxes on moon goo operations, so you do not really need an income from ppl killing rats as well.
I became inactive at the time when they just started installing renters everywhere, while that surely was some nice extra income the alliance surely could have easily survived without it.
On a personal level, I can just as easily just grind Level 4 Missions or run incursions in High Sec without any logistical effort and make more money than I actually need. (I don-Št want to say that this it how it should be in my opinion, but that is the way it currently is and has been for quite a few years now, so I surely take advantage of the broken system).
Being able to build Supers is all good, but only a minority of ppl are actually into that, so I guess most people do not care about that either.
Jump bridges can be handy, but to be honost you can live very good without them as well.
So to sum it up. Holding Sov for someone like me brings 0 benefits on a personal level. The stuff that interested me about 0.0 was always possible without owning a single system.
2) While it might seem silly to be able to anchor a POS in hostile space it can be essential for some campaigns as staging point for your fleet. I can remember quite a few situations in the days when PL was working as mercs where we staged purely out of POSs).
Also being able to anchor a POS or multiple ones in hostile space can enable smaller groups to profit from the ressources in areas which are not so heavily populated without the requirement of owning that space (though I would guess that nowadays people barely ever use it for that these days as there are easier and better ways to make ISK).
I guess if you want an accurate answer to that question you will have to ask ccp :). |
Emperor Furiosa
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.08.22 22:03:55 -
[14] - Quote
I see what you did here, nice trolling post, taking into account your earlier posts in sov related threads.
But to be polite and answering on asked question, the benefits are : constant headache, and illusion of being owner of virtual property. Those are major ones. |
Memphis Baas
502
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Posted - 2015.08.24 04:44:04 -
[15] - Quote
Yeah, posts feel like a troll, but this is Newbie Q/A, so, tried to answer as if they were serious requests for info. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4093
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Posted - 2015.08.25 21:48:01 -
[16] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Yeah, posts feel like a troll, but this is Newbie Q/A, so, tried to answer as if they were serious requests for info. No troll, wanted to educate myself, that's why I posted here.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Ka'Narlist
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
402
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Posted - 2015.08.26 08:43:11 -
[17] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:2) Why is it possible to build POS in someone else's sov? Why shouldn't it? If the sov holder doesn't want it he can destroy it again (or not if he is too weak). Also I think people with specific roles in the sov holding alliance get notifications if an enemy POS is setup in one of their owned systems.
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