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Amy North
Wheelchair Hijackers
White Noise Alliance
0
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Posted - 2015.08.22 21:28:04 -
[1] - Quote
A long time friend started playing eve last night for the first time.
Apparently the new player experience has been totally removed and replaced with this trash opportunity system that gives no rewards. I was sitting next to him trying to understand how any new player without connections in game could even complete the first few opportunities. "Buy something on the market!" Buy what? With what money? How are new players supposed to understand wtf is going on.
The tutorials at least gave players some starting frigs that could be used to complete the remaining tutorials and then they were pushed off the cliff towards a career path. Where the new system starts with them already falling off the cliff.
I'm sure if I hadn't logged on and gave him some ISK he would have just quit, I wonder how many other new players have lasted <3 hours... |
Darth Schweinebacke
We're Serious
44
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Posted - 2015.08.22 21:33:15 -
[2] - Quote
While the old aura tutorial has been removed, the career agents still exist.
Pressing F12 and then clicking on "show career agents" points you towards them. You are not wrong about opportunities, in their current form they are not really good and we can see the problem you describe here in rookie help every day over and over again.
There is a feedback thread stickied on top of this forum section for feedback as well ;). |
Fenris Mars
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2015.08.22 21:42:37 -
[3] - Quote
Thank god for Rookie Channel or i'd seriously be lost. Third day in this game, I didn't know what to do or how to get any ships. All I see are Opportunities circles to press on. They don't give you any order to do them in, etc. Finally someone in Rookie Channel told me how to find a career agent to do things and get a ship or two.
Afterwards though, there isn't a clear path where to fly to, what to do , etc. I realize we make our own space life, but I was hoping for a little more. I didn't know about the SOE arc from any tutorial offered. Someone suggested it to me. |
Emperor Furiosa
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.08.22 21:50:13 -
[4] - Quote
Cause this is Sparta!
Upon born you only given awooden sword (Rookie ship), and hips patch (sp and isk).
Now try to survive. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
12879
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Posted - 2015.08.22 22:05:54 -
[5] - Quote
Then go back to Sparta, Emp. 
I'm not sure how the new tutorial is, but I've heard a lot of complaints, yes. But yet the career agents are still there, and a very good start once you figure out how to click in space to move. Starter tutorials were always very basic anyway, but you will get the real running start from career agents and all the ships they provide. Then yes, http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/The_Blood-Stained_Stars is a very good direction to go for experience and standings once you finish the career agent missions.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Fenris Mars
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2015.08.22 22:14:20 -
[6] - Quote
Emperor Furiosa wrote:Cause this is Sparta!
Upon born you only given awooden sword (Rookie ship), and hips patch (sp and isk).
Now try to survive.
Born naked unto the world with nothing but ambition :)
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
715
|
Posted - 2015.08.22 23:55:55 -
[7] - Quote
If you are really curious they did a presentation on this at fanfest that was interesting and informative. They went over the reasoning and the numbers. I recommend you go back and watch that
I will give a brief summary from my memory but I think you would be better served by watching the video.
Anyway iirc the short version is that Eve is very different than other linear MMOs that have breadcrumb quest that lead you from level 1 to level cap fully epiced raiding. So when players came from those other MMOs to Eve the old tutorial system gave them the impression that Eve was similar and the tutorials being like quest lines was very easy for them to fall into.
The problem is that the stark contrast of what happened next was just too drastic. Players went from tutorials to "here's some lube and a leather strap to bite on. You are going to bleed the first time and try not to cry". The washout rate was huge. The new opportunities system shows players from the get go that they will need to make friends to enjoy this game. It forces them to get involved with other players.
Yes Eve is not for everyone and this game is going to have a huge washout rate regardless however the statistics from opportunities has shown it to be better than the tutorial system as far as new player retention is concerned. |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
12885
|
Posted - 2015.08.23 01:57:21 -
[8] - Quote
Oh just to mention, recently CCP publi8shed some basic newbie tutorials to their youtube channel. Was going to mention it, slipped muh mynd.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1460
|
Posted - 2015.08.23 06:34:20 -
[9] - Quote
hmm I only remember the tutorials telling me to do stuff in my noob ship. On a later character I remember getting stuff from the career agents, as when I started Plankton there were no career agents.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Majhealth Deadly
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2015.08.23 13:53:29 -
[10] - Quote
I feel the same way as the original poster. I played a long time ago for a 15 day trial and didn't do much of the tutorial but it was much more informative then the existing. I don't mind opportunities as they are sort of like achievements but they should accompany an actual tutorial that could take a new player all the way from free ship to frigate t1. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
716
|
Posted - 2015.08.23 14:26:21 -
[11] - Quote
Majhealth Deadly wrote:I feel the same way as the original poster. I played a long time ago for a 15 day trial and didn't do much of the tutorial but it was much more informative then the existing. I don't mind opportunities as they are sort of like achievements but they should accompany an actual tutorial that could take a new player all the way from free ship to frigate t1.
I rather dislike achievements and that was one of the things I was glad to come to Eve for was the fact that Eve did not have them. It pissed me off when they introduced them into Eve especially since I can't figure out a way to make them go away. You should be able to opt out of achievements / opportunities IMHO.
However like I said earlier, at least according to CCP, your feelings on the matter don't seem to match up with the data. They have before and after numbers as well as during numbers, which is when they were doing it both ways, and opportunities works better. Or at least according to CCP it works better.
If you don't believe me watch the fanfest video on the topic and judge for yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8REKcPTDvRs&index=12&list=PLu_7GUpaLIYRtQxn4gPZX1_zQPob6EahU
That above link should be the video in question. |
Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
74
|
Posted - 2015.08.23 15:12:01 -
[12] - Quote
Boring 2 hour text marathons were indeed bad and people simply gave up. That doesn't mean the opportunity system is good, it's just less terrible than clicking through 100 pages of text. But per usual it's difficult to convince CCP that they should stop doing stupid stuff.
Any newbie that gets stuck just explain to him that he needs to ignore the opportunity system (and yes you can effectively disable it) and go to F12 -> career agents. If they need a guide to get started try this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzTUBq2_6gs |
Cyber SGB
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
112
|
Posted - 2015.08.23 15:42:34 -
[13] - Quote
Science and numbers is all well and good, but you still need to apply common sense.
Every person learns in a different manner. At the very least, there should be a button in the game with a big M on it. You press that button and a game manual pops up that you can read if you so desire.
Hell, there could be another button with a big V on it to bring up a tutorial video.
Give new players options to choose how they want to go about learning the game.
Maybe even list High Sec, Low Sec, and Null just right after character creation. Explain what each of these areas is about and let the new player select which one they wish to start in right then and there.
I write Kindle books. Visit my author page.
http://amazon.com/author/sgbynum
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
51404
|
Posted - 2015.08.24 19:47:35 -
[14] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:
Or at least according to CCP it works better.
See, that's the problem right there.
It wouldn't surprise me if those numbers were faked since that test wasn't done by un-biased neutral 3rd party survey. More than likely the tutorial got changed because some Dev thought it was a good idea and it was an easy thing to implement. Probably justified their employment for the next year.
The main problem with this game now over the past couple of years is changes being done by Dev's who pretty much haven't even played this game.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1470
|
Posted - 2015.08.24 20:30:54 -
[15] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:You should be able to opt out of achievements / opportunities IMHO.
you can, on the opportunities map there is a gear icon in the upper right corner, click on it and then check suppress notifications, suppress aura dialogs, and do not show in info panel. bam, just like "opportunities" never existed.
also i have a hard time comparing them to achievements. sure some other games have some basic hand holding achievements, but the opportunities are almost even a step below that. that and they are the entirety of the system.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
1470
|
Posted - 2015.08.24 20:37:54 -
[16] - Quote
Cyber SGB wrote:Science and numbers is all well and good, but you still need to apply common sense.
Every person learns in a different manner. At the very least, there should be a button in the game with a big M on it. You press that button and a game manual pops up that you can read if you so desire.
Hell, there could be another button with a big V on it to bring up a tutorial video.
Give new players options to choose how they want to go about learning the game.
Maybe even list High Sec, Low Sec, and Null just right after character creation. Explain what each of these areas is about and let the new player select which one they wish to start in right then and there.
that would be a nice idea, however I doubt ccp would be able to maintain such a system... just look at evelopedia for example. Luckily many of the fundamentals don't change, but when they do...
@ChainsawPlankto
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