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Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.11 14:36:00 - [1] Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 11/12/2006 14:40:32 Disclaimer: This post reaches 7.2 points on the whiny scale. Read at your own risk. --- snip --- Greetings fellow pilots, builders, miners, exotic dancers! I've been absent from Eve and these boards for a while (yes I admit it - I played other games waiting for that level V skill to complete) and upon my return I am left a bit puzzled over the changes made to stabs. And when I say "a bit" what I really mean is: WTF? Yes, I'm a stabs wh***. But before the PvP community gets all excited and blood pressures exceed the safe fitting requirements: I used stabs for ratting, and for mining. At times I used up to five, because I needed to. Never used for them for PvP though. But somehow the nerfs to targeting range and targeting time affect me as a rat hunters and miner, and big time. I used to have a Raven for ratting in low sec. Without stabs, I get blown away every few days by a gank squad in HACs or pirate packs. Hunting puny NPCs in .3 is not covering that cost by far. Yes, I watch local, and yes I consider hunting in a less expensive ship (AF) but both is not exactly a remedy. Now with stabs nerfed, I can't risk a Raven into low sec anymore (in fact it got blown up but if I'd buy a new one, I wouldn't dare into low sec with it atm). Well, I could kinda live with that - were it not that my other venue of money making has been eliminated at the same time. I used to mine in low sec in a mining domi with stabs. Now this alone is hard enough. But with the nerfs to stabs I can not only not target the occasional rat for my drones to engage in under two minutes, but I can't target a roid in under two minutes either! I dunno if its the same for barges with stabs, but it doesn't matter because those silly Covetors can't be used in low sec anyway, not unless someone in a fighting ship takes the heat, and I can't afford a hulk by far. This is plain silly. Eve boasts itself as a game where one can have many professions. Newsflash: My profession as a miner seems to be changing into being an entertainer for pirates, or living of social benefits in Empire. For those who have a more solo-oriented playstyle and not having multiple accounts, this nerf eliminates a lot of non-Empire options - unless you suck up to a major alliance and play something else while waiting for the next corp mining op. In fact it eliminates any way for making decent cash in low sec (or 0.0) for me. So, with that in mind, what are my fellow pilots doing that were having stab setups for mining or NPCing? Any solutions to the above, any alternatives to filling a mining domi full of nanofibers, getting really paranoid on the overview and hoping to warp before the pirates lock on? Thanks for reading. -- [21:54:01] BaroteToo > cheyenne shadowborn is an ore theiving dead puke if I catch him
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2006.12.11 14:41:00 - [2] Quote: But before the PvP community gets all excited and blood pressures exceed the safe fitting requirements:... It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
FFGR Maza Nostra Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.11 14:47:00 - [3] Solutions to your problem : -Use Sensor Boosters (midslot item), Signal Amplifiers (lowslot item) -Mine/Rat with friends (you ARE in a PC corp, aren't you ?) -Learn to defend yourself without using stabs (ohnoes!) _______ Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.11 15:00:00 - [4] Yes, you get blown away every few days because the game is designed to be RISKY in 0.0... I have no idea why you guys feel there should be a module that turns the pvp flag off. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.11 15:08:00 - [5] Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 11/12/2006 15:09:55 Originally by: Jim McGregor Yes, you get blown away every few days because the game is designed to be RISKY in 0.0... I have no idea why you guys feel there should be a module that turns the pvp flag off. Maybe there should be a module that BALANCES the darn game. Do the math. Raven = 120 million. Best low sec rat = BC, ~250.000 ISK. Rats required to pop before Raven is paid for: ~480 Average time required to do that: dunno, several months Agerage time until my Raven is popped by some griefer/"pirate" in low sec with no stabs: three days. Yeah, sure, I should insure it, but it still doesn't work, 28 million insurance premium still equals killing 112 low sec BCs every 12 weeks before making ANY profit. Modules or clones not included. Stabs at least altered this grindmill somewhat in my favour (I am STILL broke but at least with stabs people had a CHANCE). -- [21:54:01] BaroteToo > cheyenne shadowborn is an ore theiving dead puke if I catch him
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.12.11 15:14:00 - [6] fighting BC is a BS is over kill, fight NPC BS, wow the price may be 1.5mil per BS rat depending on the rat you kill. Also the loot is alot better, and maybe you could find a officer who might be 21-33mil by themselves.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.11 15:14:00 - [7] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 11/12/2006 15:18:49 Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Maybe there should be a module that BALANCES the darn game. No need, its already balanced. If you take a 100 mill battleship out to low sec to kill a few cruisers that dont pay much, who is responsible for that decision? They cant balance the game based on dumb decisions you know. Kill 30 battleships in 0.0 and you have earned your insurance back, and gotten a lot of nice loot as well. Your problem is trying to rat in low sec, which is the most pirate infested area in the game. Of course you get killed... you should be. Its supposed to be dangerous you know, and there are plenty of ways you can protect yourself if you are staying alert and watch what happens in your system. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.11 15:29:00 - [8] Here is a good way to think about the situation Cheyenne. 0.0 is someones home. And the government doesnt exist. Now, either its your home, and you should stop those nasty gank squads from coming in and ruining your ratting, or maybe make a deal with some nastier gank squads to stop them from coming in and ruining your ratting or you are ratting in someones home and should be expected to be punished for stealing "their rats" ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.11 15:41:00 - [9] Or you could, you know, not fit a rack of stabs, watch local, generally act like you're in lowsec when you're mining... ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Keta Min Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.12.11 16:35:00 - [10] how do people get killed when they're not looking for engagements? this concept has been eluding me forever.
Harris	Posted - 2006.12.11 17:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Keta Min how do people get killed when they're not looking for engagements? this concept has been eluding me forever. Last time I died when I didn't enter an engagment it was because I shot someone's abandoned drones and got ganked by the sentry guns when I had finished the mission. To the OP... I'm a miner by trade. You should know if you mine regularly in a particular area who the pirates are. Particularly now that their standing 'star' shows in local watching local is as easy as pie. It isn't hard to see the local number jump up one, quick scroll down of local to watch for aforementiond 'baddy-badge' by a name... then warp to the station and insta dock. Honestly mate, I don't think you should have any problems. As for ratting in a raven, like Jim and the others said, fight in a cruiser or battlecruiser, make the fights more interesting and get more 'isk-per-isk-spent' in return.
Saint Bubba	Posted - 2006.12.11 17:20:00 - [12] Learn to PVP and give those pirates a nasty surprise when they attack you?
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.11 17:37:00 - [13] Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 11/12/2006 15:09:55 Originally by: Jim McGregor Yes, you get blown away every few days because the game is designed to be RISKY in 0.0... I have no idea why you guys feel there should be a module that turns the pvp flag off. Maybe there should be a module that BALANCES the darn game. Do the math. Raven = 120 million. Best low sec rat = BC, ~250.000 ISK. Rats required to pop before Raven is paid for: ~480 Average time required to do that: dunno, several months Agerage time until my Raven is popped by some griefer/"pirate" in low sec with no stabs: three days. Yeah, sure, I should insure it, but it still doesn't work, 28 million insurance premium still equals killing 112 low sec BCs every 12 weeks before making ANY profit. Modules or clones not included. Stabs at least altered this grindmill somewhat in my favour (I am STILL broke but at least with stabs people had a CHANCE). So... why are you ratting in a 0.3 system in a Raven? It's complete and utter overkill. You can easily do the same using a t1 fitted cruiser.
Exogene	Posted - 2006.12.11 17:38:00 - [14] Ratting in a BS in low sec is just as silly as trying to rat in low sec with a noob ship. It is way overkill, you can easily rat in a T1 cruiser in low sec, if you can't manage that, then a BC. In my early days (and upto this point) i have never used WCS and got killed by pirates twice during my career ratting in low sec. Why? Because i was careful, and that is all the WCS you need. You can't possibly expect us to believe that you watch local and yet get killed by a pirate every other day. Quote: Yes, I watch local, and yes I consider hunting in a less expensive ship (AF) but both is not exactly a remedy. Yes this is the remedy and obviously you are not doing it.
Hornious1	Posted - 2006.12.11 17:48:00 - [15] Balance is relative to who you are talking to. We cannot expect to get away from a gate camp of numerous Recon, Command Ships, BS's, Faction Ships because that would not be fair to them. Allowing the use of stabs without the recent nerf would cause PVPers and Pirates to waste an extra slot on another Scram, OMG. Forget the fact that for every one slot they use on a +2 Scram two low slots have to be used on stabs to counter and yet they cry about balance. I come through a gate with a ratting or mission setup and I am a coward if I warp off via my stabs and not stand and face the five ship gate camp in front of me. I forgot that a 3/4/5 or more ship gate camp against one whatever ship is balance in the eyes of the mighty PVPer/Pirate. God forbid they would have to find someone in a quote "balanced" one-on-one fight. That would be totally unfair. There is nothing funnier than a bunch of -10sec guys setting around a gate yucking it up about how powerful they are and a mess of shuttle, frig, cargo ship, cruiser wrecks scattered around the gate. The nerf was for those who want to pop lesser opponents without the possibility of them being able to run and then pounding their chests in amazement of their great accomplishment.
lllllllllllopo	Posted - 2006.12.11 18:37:00 - [16] Originally by: FFGR Solutions to your problem : -Use Sensor Boosters (midslot item), Signal Amplifiers (lowslot item) -Mine/Rat with friends (you ARE in a PC corp, aren't you ?) -Learn to defend yourself without using stabs while being attacked by 5 rats and a player pirate who is shooting your resistance holes. fixed
Fodderrr	Posted - 2006.12.11 18:38:00 - [17] Edited by: Fodderrr on 11/12/2006 19:02:17 Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 11/12/2006 15:09:55 Originally by: Jim McGregor Yes, you get blown away every few days because the game is designed to be RISKY in 0.0... I have no idea why you guys feel there should be a module that turns the pvp flag off. Maybe there should be a module that BALANCES the darn game. Do the math. Raven = 120 million. Best low sec rat = BC, ~250.000 ISK. Rats required to pop before Raven is paid for: ~480 Average time required to do that: dunno, several months Agerage time until my Raven is popped by some griefer/"pirate" in low sec with no stabs: three days. Yeah, sure, I should insure it, but it still doesn't work, 28 million insurance premium still equals killing 112 low sec BCs every 12 weeks before making ANY profit. Modules or clones not included. Stabs at least altered this grindmill somewhat in my favour (I am STILL broke but at least with stabs people had a CHANCE). To be fair your only need to kill enough rats to cover the insurance to make a profit out of it. But yeah its shafted mission runners as well. edit: just read it properly and i think you should try 0.0 and get insurance
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.12.11 18:43:00 - [18] If you are in lowsec, you are a moron, and deserve to die. 'nuff said. There is no possible way for you to make any sort of decent isk in low sec with the scanning changes, so, if you want to run missions, run them for pirates faction out in 0.0 . Most "pirates" don't have the sack to operate in 0.0 for any leangh of time. If you want to mine, get in 0.0. again, you are not going to mine neough in low sec to make up for your losses in low sec.
Sadayiel Caldari Black Lance Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.11 19:06:00 - [19] if you plan to travel fit stabs, nanos and inertia stabs it's fair. if you plan to fight well can't fit them or your target will be gimped = fair no more ravens with stabs on lows to run away. you plan to rat/mine in low sec well know the system, keep aligned show local etc etc it's easy!!! you plan to rogue rat/mine in 0.0 well or you can acces and supply yourself into the area (friendly stations/pos) or you must sacrifice your safety for profit or viceversa. when i need to fly tru 0.0 to a new area it's common that i gimp my setup to get stabs/nanos and inertia stabs, so i can reach much more safe my destination, then later reassemble it, if not then elarn to cooperate with a gang to move down. Banana's 4tw - Xorus
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:03:00 - [20] Wow, low sec ratting in a BS... That's not the best use of a multi-million isk ship. If you're going to take a BS into low sec, at least be on a mission. Otherwise, save yourself some isk, fit up a cruiser, and then go ratting in low sec. FFS I rat in a destroyer in 0.0 (I can't kill BS's, but the cruisers and BC's pay the bills) and a frig in low sec. Right ship for the right job. I know if a hostile comes in local, I can either out-maneuver him or run like a little girl. Right now you're hiring a professional racer to drive a school bus. The Cost VS Profit doesn't make any sense. Oh and btw, those low slots can also be used to make your ship a hell of a lot stronger (pds's, bcs's, and so on). Also, since the stab nerf, people (pirates) have been fitting less scram because we don't have to worry about every single target having 149520750298745 stabs fitted. If you really REALLY want a stab on, 1 should get you out of a lot of situations. Personally, I'd rather be able to fight/defend. Oh, check out Inertial Stabilizers. Nothing quite like a BS turning on a dime and getting out of dodge. God, I hate spelling things out for prey. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Akira2501	Posted - 2006.12.11 20:21:00 - [21] Off-Subject: Sadayiel û your sig is great! On Subject: Good post, not whiny, well formulated complaint. That said, I donÆt agree entirely. I didnÆt like the nerf at first but IÆm come to realize that it is for the best. It prevents one from ôbeing safeö and being and aggressor at the same time, which is quite cowardly if you think about it. Personally I like the new ôcommit or dieö approach to ratting, missions, and PVP. I would recommend one change to the penalty however: 1.Mining barges. It should not apply to these ships as they have very little offensive or tank capabilities anyways. Let em target asteroids! Any pirate who looses to a mining barges dronesàwell they deserve it! Also, for .3 rattingàhonestly, no offence, but just use a disposable cruiser or something. No reason for a 100+ million ISK battleship in .3
Breed Love FATAL REVELATIONS Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:13:00 - [22] to OP: omft stabhoar plz die !!!!!!111111111 Originally by: Wrangler We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:18:00 - [23] I happen to like the Stab Nerf, they only belong on ships that don't plan to fight. There are plenty of safe places to rat...and 0.0 is usually safer than low sec anyway. ~Thor Xian, Chief Administrator "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:18:00 - [24] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 11/12/2006 21:20:25 I think using a battleship might actually not only be a bad decision financially, it probably also increases the risk of getting killed since its so slow to get into warp. Ive ratted in 0.0 with a stabber with no problems at all, because they cant hit me. Its fun too. :) But thats against cruisers and frigates. A battleship would take too long to kill. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:20:00 - [25] I agree for the mining bit, there is no reason an asteroid should be so bleeding hard to lock with a couple stabs in the lows. In fact, I don't see why asteroids should take long to lock at all, its a bleeding rock. What is so bloody complicated? Better solution though, get some friends to protect you when mining and whatnot. Stabs are not the only way to stay alive out there. Fear is the mind-killer.
Vlodec Amarr Clydec Universal Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.11 21:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Audri Fisher If you are in lowsec, you are a moron, and deserve to die. 'nuff said. Speaking as a moron I sometimes mine in lowsec when local highsec belts are mined out. The effective loss of stabs is a blow & I'll add my voice to those wanting an exception made for mining barges. Am I allowed to say that ?
Zekk Pacus Caldari StateCorp	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:19:00 - [27] Mine in a mining cruiser. Or find a nice quiet lowsec system. I can't count the number of completely empty lowsec systems I've flown through recently because everyone's in Lonetrek.
madaluap Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:39:00 - [28] Edited by: madaluap on 11/12/2006 22:41:58 Edited by: madaluap on 11/12/2006 22:40:09 Just adapt or die. I lost my raven today in lowsec because i got probed in less than half a minute. Im just gonna get some corpmates to finish off the mission and than get a locator agent and find every single son of *** that ganked me. After that ill move to some save space again (syndicate). Corpmate of mine used his killrights to kill off a afk mining ferox and kessy. Thats still a good 2 out of 3 Btw if you find stabnerf to harsh, why dont you fit a dominix sit in a belt and wait till the pirates warp in on you. Some decloaking of a falcon/other nifty ships and suddenly these pirates face some real pvp You earn more isk killing pirates anyway. Originally by:** Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 11/12/2006 21:20:25 I think using a battleship might actually not only be a bad decision financially, it probably also increases the risk of getting killed since its so slow to get into warp. Ive ratted in 0.0 with a stabber with no problems at all, because they cant hit me. Its fun too. :) But thats against cruisers and frigates. A battleship would take too long to kill. Ive done it ...but thats probably all i can say about it wasting 2 k bullets ftl _________________________________________________ Breetime
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.11 22:48:00 - [29] Originally by: madaluap Btw if you find stabnerf to harsh, why dont you fit a dominix sit in a belt and wait till the pirates warp in on you. Some decloaking of a falcon/other nifty ships and suddenly these pirates face some real pvp You earn more isk killing pirates anyway. This actually happened to me once... I saw a Vexor in a belt and attacked him in my ruppie. Suddenly a cerberus and some caracals either warp in or uncloak (not sure) and starts to rip huge pieces away from my ship with their missile spamming. I managed to get out of warp scramble range only because caldari ships are so damn slow, and escape. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Marcus Quo Axe Gang	Posted - 2006.12.11 23:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 11/12/2006 15:09:55 Originally by: Jim McGregor Yes, you get blown away every few days because the game is designed to be RISKY in 0.0... I have no idea why you guys feel there should be a module that turns the pvp flag off. Maybe there should be a module that BALANCES the darn game. Do the math. Raven = 120 million. Best low sec rat = BC, ~250.000 ISK. Rats required to pop before Raven is paid for: ~480 Average time required to do that: dunno, several months Agerage time until my Raven is popped by some griefer/"pirate" in low sec with no stabs: three days. Yeah, sure, I should insure it, but it still doesn't work, 28 million insurance premium still equals killing 112 low sec BCs every 12 weeks before making ANY profit. Modules or clones not included. Stabs at least altered this grindmill somewhat in my favour (I am STILL broke but at least with stabs people had a CHANCE). Dominix: 100 mil, fully fitted Average loot from killing a Raven: 15 mil BS kills per week: 5+ Making a living by PKing: Priceless I think you just need a new profession

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