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Tabius
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Posted - 2003.11.21 22:09:00 -
[1]
Now I'll be the first to admit that this could be pure fiction, but it's an interesting theory.
Just think for a minute... you're a game developer, and you'd like to create a space sim game where the market is player based.
Of course, it can't be player based at the beginning. So you create a small launch with a few thousand really hardcore players. Now these players complain about the bugs, the problems and the lack of a cohesive market place.
Slowly you weed this down to a small group of mega corps and pirate alliances.
Now you've got your first tier of elite players. with a modicum of lower lever players ranged throughout the experience levels.
You've also rigidly separated the lawless mega corp space from the lower level empire space.
Now, when CCP 'really' launches the game, they've managed to create a small hardened, stoic group of players who are so powerful and disinterested in noob space that new players can come onboard and feel like big fishies in a small pond, with the spectre of becoming a very small fish in a larger 0.0 space ocean.
It's a nice thought... I'm not sure how viable it is, but it's a nice thought.
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.11.21 22:25:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Veruna Caseti on 21/11/2003 22:25:30
How about:
"Uh oh, this is a lot harder than they made it sound in the book."
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Zarthan
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Posted - 2003.11.21 22:26:00 -
[3]
they've already said the low scale launch was intentional to work there noobness out of there game maken. I think that was a good idea then launching wide spread. However if they do wish to get the game going now that it is established they do need to repackage the game and ship it out.
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Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2003.11.21 22:28:00 -
[4]
I've always maintained that we are the content for the big release. What better backdrop, a bunch of cynical, idle rich and powerful players not dumbass AI?
Ok one out of three aint bad...l'll play cynical backdrop.
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Tabius
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Posted - 2003.11.21 22:50:00 -
[5]
 Quote:
I've always maintained that we are the content for the big release. What better backdrop, a bunch of cynical, idle rich and powerful players not dumbass AI?
Ok one out of three aint bad...l'll play cynical backdrop.
Wait! I want to be the Dumbass AI!!!!
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.11.21 22:55:00 -
[6]
... Can i have cynical and idle? I'd even pass on the rich part. :s
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.21 23:18:00 -
[7]
The words "Cataclysmically Stupid" come to mind. The incoming people would find a ton of bored demigods, in relation to their skills and equipment.
And we've all seen what happens when people get bored enough around here...They start shootin stuff. 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Ooke
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Posted - 2003.11.21 23:30:00 -
[8]
cynical sure, but powerful and rich...
that must be for you corporation types...
Ooke: May Contain Nuts |
Lone Gunman
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Posted - 2003.11.21 23:48:00 -
[9]
What you see is what you get. I remember the same thing happening just before release. While we were struggeling with Builds 900 to 999, nobody was seeing the game that was promised or was on some of the promotional Video's. This led to a small faction believing that there was this "Ninja Build" on the CD's, when actually there was Beta Build 800 somthing.
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Indigo Seqi
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Posted - 2003.11.22 00:41:00 -
[10]
It just means we get to keep our beta chars at the real launch and have a huge jump on the general public. That's ok with me, even this beta is worth paying for imo.
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2003.11.22 01:17:00 -
[11]
Quote:
It just means we get to keep our beta chars at the real launch and have a huge jump on the general public. That's ok with me, even this beta is worth paying for imo.
Agreed.
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Master Scy
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Posted - 2003.11.22 01:28:00 -
[12]
Quote:
The words "Cataclysmically Stupid" come to mind. The incoming people would find a ton of bored demigods, in relation to their skills and equipment.
And we've all seen what happens when people get bored enough around here...They start shootin stuff.
I agree with Jash... If one week there was a massive flow of noobs, there'd be lots of pod kills listed on the map, and much forum whining...
Basically like m0o times 10, since all the noobs woud be in frigates and cruisers while the pirates would each have 10 battleships in their hangars at that point.
-----------------------------
You think Marco Polo said
"Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ?
-Indigo Seqi
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dethnel
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Posted - 2003.11.22 13:11:00 -
[13]
On the other hand- (not that ccp should do this but) if when new players came in they could only choose from a list of player corps to start with instead of npc corps... omg that would be interesting. new players starting in the game with real people as their tutorial from day 1.
Not all corps want new players, but corps that did could set up noob training camp-versions and list them with ccp.
corps that volunteered to accept new players could swell overnight with members and create armies-- training all the new players in the tactics and ships that the corp likes to use
"now listen up noobs! eject from your ibis, get into that kestral and practice warp jamming..."
eg. a new player who wanted to be a pirate could join 'space invaders-hell camp' immediately, or wanted to be an industrialist could join 'techel-training corp' right outta the box.
get rid of a lot of the npc stuff we had at the beginning, replacing it with us. And officially revamp the eve universe map to show the existing aliance-claimed space as if it was part of the game-design from the begining... funny that the aliances would already have a history of how they came into being, and why they might be disputed etc.
then it wouldn't be hundreds of newbs falling over themselves trying to learn the game, it would be enormous armies of new folks filling in corporations.
new players could leave and be freelancers if they wanted afterward (maybe fall back on the current npc corp setup we have now). but the initial protection and advice from a player corp at the start would keep them alive and train them better so they could make it on their own. or the newbs might want to stick with their new buddies/ demigod like vetran players.
cripes - as a first training mission for combat corps you could get some newbs to escort your battleship around in decked out frigs(that u supply them), u tell em what to do, they learn on the job while u hunt the enemy, and help to protect you from jamming etc.
as a first mission that might be way more fun then mining a roid and buying a civi shield.
we are the game.
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Dagny
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Posted - 2003.11.22 14:02:00 -
[14]
@ Tabius: That thought did occur to me too a while ago, and it would in my opinion have new players see a broader spectre of the game than what we did 6th of May.
@ dethnel: Brilliant idea.
@ Indigo Seqi, Lansfear: Agreed ^^ |
Commander Jones
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Posted - 2003.11.22 14:14:00 -
[15]
dethnel your idea is excellent!
we should all send CCP requests to implement this.
"You end up paying good money for the sort of treatment you ancestors spent their short, brutal lives trying to avoid. That's progress"
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Tabius
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Posted - 2003.11.22 15:35:00 -
[16]
Quote:
On the other hand- (not that ccp should do this but) if when new players came in they could only choose from a list of player corps to start with instead of npc corps... omg that would be interesting. new players starting in the game with real people as their tutorial from day 1.
Not all corps want new players, but corps that did could set up noob training camp-versions and list them with ccp.
corps that volunteered to accept new players could swell overnight with members and create armies-- training all the new players in the tactics and ships that the corp likes to use
"now listen up noobs! eject from your ibis, get into that kestral and practice warp jamming..."
eg. a new player who wanted to be a pirate could join 'space invaders-hell camp' immediately, or wanted to be an industrialist could join 'techel-training corp' right outta the box.
get rid of a lot of the npc stuff we had at the beginning, replacing it with us. And officially revamp the eve universe map to show the existing aliance-claimed space as if it was part of the game-design from the begining... funny that the aliances would already have a history of how they came into being, and why they might be disputed etc.
then it wouldn't be hundreds of newbs falling over themselves trying to learn the game, it would be enormous armies of new folks filling in corporations.
new players could leave and be freelancers if they wanted afterward (maybe fall back on the current npc corp setup we have now). but the initial protection and advice from a player corp at the start would keep them alive and train them better so they could make it on their own. or the newbs might want to stick with their new buddies/ demigod like vetran players.
cripes - as a first training mission for combat corps you could get some newbs to escort your battleship around in decked out frigs(that u supply them), u tell em what to do, they learn on the job while u hunt the enemy, and help to protect you from jamming etc.
as a first mission that might be way more fun then mining a roid and buying a civi shield.
we are the game.
Brilliant. Yes, lets do this...  |
Vector Victor
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Posted - 2003.11.22 16:34:00 -
[17]
Heh, not a bad idea with having noobs select player corps in character creation - except who should be listed? Should there be a minimum number of members in them? How's the list sorted or in other words, who's at the top
Well, a player driven economy would never have worked from the start. Early beta had it like that and it was a veeeery slow start. They had to put in NPC buyers and sellers.
However! The fully player driven economy will probably come in different phases. We see that with Tech Level II which items wont be available on the NPC market.
Now they just have to pull out the NPC demand for minerals
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2003.11.22 16:55:00 -
[18]
i disagree...a lot of crap corps will just make the training camps and make noobs slavemine...u think a noob will know a difference between Techell and Hardcorps when they join?
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Serilla
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Posted - 2003.11.22 17:14:00 -
[19]
na they wouldnt know a diffrence. when i made my charicter i just picked stuff to try and get in the game :D
But i like the idea that more people 'might' come and play once it is released in asia.
I will continue to play, so long as they do not wipe the charicters making us lose all this hard work.
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Bele gorri
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Posted - 2003.11.22 17:29:00 -
[20]
To Dethel
Great.
Instead of recruit spamming you'll have
loads of noob slaves to work for you.
Instead of trying to make your corp better for the newcommers, force them to join any corp (big corp of course).
Please...
Joining a corp is a voluntary, and good thought (most times) act.
If need new ppl make your corp atractive for
them
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Drethen Nerevitas
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Posted - 2003.11.22 19:02:00 -
[21]
So?
Slaves, OMG!
Then all you righteous types can come along and offer them a place in your corp, and beat the snot out of the ebil slavedriving corp camps!
Of course, a corp should have a minimum number of players to become a corp camp (say 50? 100?)...that way there's always a few vets on and people can't create corps just with a few people to make the newbies mine like hell (unless it's one of the big slaving corps :P).
Great idea.
_______________________________________________________________________
IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. |
Pelias
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Posted - 2003.11.22 23:57:00 -
[22]
Do you really believe in what you have written?
Because you are obviously wrong.
Vet players (especially not carebear type) are worst game content you can imagine.
One, maybe two corps, who do really like newbies might start training camps.
But majority, say 99% of big, powerful and respected corps like moo won't.
Do you really believe that master pirates will waste their time telling newbs how to navigate ship?
They won't, of course.
Simple laws of cappitalism.
there will be many many recruits and only few vet-corps, so corps will have huge choice.
Big corps will only send invitations to best players, or have very strict, long and hard interview-based recrutation procedures.
And as someone said, only effect will be much more podkills in game.
In fact, newbs will hate vets and game devs, because they will allways be 4 months late with skill points to us.
ships and equip isn't problem, you can go from 0 to bs in less than 100 gamehours. but they will always have far less skills than we. Think - you need 4 mln skillpoint to be effective in apoc, even if noob, after hard work will get into apoc, he won't stand a chance against vet. And he won't be able to do anything, anything with it.
Newcomers will hate us, f*** who are sooo demigod-powerful only because had bought game earlier, and devs who allowed this.
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2003.11.23 01:41:00 -
[23]
errrrr....u need 4 mil sp to fly an apoc? please dont hesitate to list which ones...i got 2.5 and im sure if i were to fly apocs, the difference wouldnt be all that great.
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Drethen Nerevitas
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Posted - 2003.11.23 04:34:00 -
[24]
OK.
So what you're saying is:
Hate people because you got the game 6 months after everyone else and had no beta experience.
Battleships are the only way to fight.
Don't appreciate corpmates who give you tips and fill you in on what you didn't learn yourself, nor the devs for providing the universe. Just hate people because they're further ahead in the game than you. (I bet you play FPS/strat games and quit when you start losing too  )
Each corp has a minimum of 50 members to start a newbie training camp (stops every man and his corp spamming CCP w/ requests).
Each corp is checked out by CCP to be fair-ish (Obviously m0o isn't likely to have their request to be a n00b training camp accepted, Techell on the other hand...).
Want to come up with any reasonable arguments?
_______________________________________________________________________
IMPORTANT: Devs (and players) please take notice.
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. |
Lucre
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Posted - 2003.11.23 11:44:00 -
[25]
Quote:
On the other hand- (not that ccp should do this but) if when new players came in they could only choose from a list of player corps to start with instead of npc corps... omg that would be interesting. new players starting in the game with real people as their tutorial from day 1.
cripes - as a first training mission for combat corps you could get some newbs to escort your battleship around in decked out frigs(that u supply them), u tell em what to do, they learn on the job while u hunt the enemy, and help to protect you from jamming etc
This would be doubly good if the devs pick up some of the idea for making frigates and cruisers more useful i.e. to make it worthwhile having a balanced fleet and not just all in BS.
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Ecliptical
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Posted - 2003.11.23 11:48:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Ecliptical on 23/11/2003 11:51:56
Ok I gotta add my two cents ehere
Well I think most of you know me by now!
I'm a director in MASS corp (u know, the anyoing guys from Stain Alliance )
I can guarantee, just as much as we don't want intruders in our space today, that we wouldn't want n00bs flying around there. There is a reason why we choose this space, it's riches and security for us it is simply amazing.
I'm cosidered to be a very good fighter, having only lost one ship throught the game since launch, and due to a CTD (I think it was an exploit but hey ).
I have my tactics (recently proven on amarr championships), and I have my knowlodge of equipment load out, now would I really want to share this with a bunch of n00bs? Probably not!
Would I want them flying around freely in our controlled space? Nah!
Most important of all, do ya really think I'm going to waste my time teaching them the game? Doubtfull!!!
Sorry that's what the help channel is for.
I think that no corp in this game, has the time to spare to hold the hands of a bunch of new n00bs, and that is why we all went to 0.0 space.
We are not insterested, in empire space, it's is not profitable, and it is not fun.
Most people never get the game anyways, you can have 5 Million skill points and still be a n00b, I know I've come up against them, having money and equipment wont help u either if u can't set up your ship properly.
I'm Sorry, I just dont think that there would be to many of the current 0.0 space corps willing to spend time and hand hold n00bs, specially cause most of these corps are at war with each other currently, and these n00bs if ventured out into other space, would probably get killed and discouraged of playing the game much faster than spending a couple of months in empire and aquiring knowledge to join a bigger corp.
Agree or disagree with me, I know that I wouldnt want a load of new n00bs in my corp (final word! )
Ecliptical
HQ Security/Director, MASS Corp/Stain Alliance
"Blessed Hero and Champion of the Amarr Emperor"
"They call me WitchDoctor Lifter of CURSE's"
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.11.25 20:02:00 -
[27]
Quote:
... Can i have cynical and idle?
we are posting on the boards, yes? we already qualify
I have long suspcted that we are in fact the "NPCs" for launch to the general public - established corps, alliances, some small player-owned structures or three... Interesting to see others have had this idea too. Quite the impressive dirty trick and far more imaginative than EQ's treadmills
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.11.25 20:05:00 -
[28]
Quote:
The words "Cataclysmically Stupid" come to mind. The incoming people would find a ton of bored demigods, in relation to their skills and equipment.
And this is different from newbies who enter the game today how?
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.11.25 20:09:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Quote:
The words "Cataclysmically Stupid" come to mind. The incoming people would find a ton of bored demigods, in relation to their skills and equipment.
And we've all seen what happens when people get bored enough around here...They start shootin stuff.
I agree with Jash... If one week there was a massive flow of noobs, there'd be lots of pod kills listed on the map, and much forum whining...
Basically like m0o times 10, since all the noobs woud be in frigates and cruisers while the pirates would each have 10 battleships in their hangars at that point.
Once more, "this is different from now how?"
How else are you expecting more people to get into the game? The buddy system? Dial-A-Pirate-Partner? Or is a large influx of new blood suddenly not needed? I'd bet that we're 'supposed' to start recruiting these people - except, of course, their own systems currently in place (CCP's) make that utterly impossible. Recruiting a buncha alts i mean noobs just isn't an option for ... well crap, anyone really, unless you treat them like TTI plebians for a while. And even then, some have shown some good RL patience in playing along for whatever it takes to be trusted, then robbing you blind...
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.11.25 20:14:00 -
[30]
Quote:
OK.
So what you're saying is:
...
Want to come up with any reasonable arguments?
Sure. See Ecliptical's response above.
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
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