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Synapse Archae Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.12 05:55:00 - [1] Edited by: Synapse Archae on 12/12/2006 05:57:04 I'm making this thread because the other one got trolled into a nationality discussion. This thread is for discussion of the tactics involved in clearing a complex of professional complex farmers who have all day to spend farming it. Specific focus is for 5/10 complexes, because I can personally attest that nearly every 5/10 in eve has a pack of these guys attached to it. Many of the best farmer scout the complex first, either with scanners or with shuttles, and once they have run it they cloak, so your only window is to catch them when they come into the system and jump them as they move onto the first gate, which requires a team of combat pilots ready to be scrambled any time farmers are spotted on local. The only other window available is if you can sneak up on them when they decloak to destroy a level. The most successful strategy I can suggest for a corporation looking to establish themseleves at a 5/10 complex is to use a single or multiple recons, and some australian support. I say australian because it's the aussies who are awake and on their peak playtime during DT. Here is your stratecgy: As soon as possible, each day you have a chance of farmers, have a combat group escort a solo cloaking recon, possibly even two or 3, into the complex. Place these cloaked recons in levels you know the farmers will be forced to spend time in. Particularly the 7th and 4th levels for the ammount of time it takes to run them. If you know 5/10 complexes you will know what the best levels are to stop in. Each of the recons cloaks and goes afk. Leave your computer on and connected. If youre an american, go to sleep and wake up later, leaving your recon cloaked up there. When you come back from school/work/sleep/whatever, check local and look for farmers. If you see them but not on scanners, and corpmates/alts confirm they arent in station, then you need only wait. When the farmer battleship decloaks to kill off the latest respawn of the level, move into range, decloak and gank it. Steal the loot, pod if you feel you can afford the sec loss. Open a convo and just tell the farmer "Leave <system name>" then close it. That message is hopefully simple enough to pass an online translater with its meaning intact. Thats my tactic. Since each of the recons becomes available at different times, the farmers face being randomly ganked by cloaked ships that come out of nowhere, at no predictable time. It leverages our limited playtime as real players to make it unpredictable, without forcing us to try and match the farmers in terms of play time. They will probably leave you alone in short order, after realizing the complex is a deathtrap for them if they stay. - - - These elite slaves are exceptionally well suited for physical labor.
CRUSH BOSS Caldari BOSS PRODUCTIONS	Posted - 2006.12.12 05:57:00 - [2] NO .. leave the isk farmers alone.... I for one think they rock. The give rich people the EDGE .. the way it ought to be. ! We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE
Synapse Archae Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.12 06:01:00 - [3] Originally by: CRUSH BOSS NO .. leave the isk farmers alone.... I for one think they rock. The give rich people the EDGE .. the way it ought to be. ! CCP and I both disagree with you, I think. P.S. - A tactic I have seen used by experienced pirates is that it is possible to cloak next to a complex gate, and a skilled recon pilot can decloak just in time to scramble the last ship to activate a warp gate. This way you can pair down farmer groups of multiple BS, since the others go into warp too quickly to cancel it and save their friend. You can split a gang over the gate, and then you basically have alone-time 1v1 with whoever you caught as the last one through the gate. In fact I would conclude that a lone skilled recon pilot, if determined, could singlehandedly ruin the attempts of a group of farmers to take over control of a complex. - - - These elite slaves are exceptionally well suited for physical labor.
CRUSH BOSS Caldari BOSS PRODUCTIONS	Posted - 2006.12.12 06:10:00 - [4] You realy think that these BIG fleet wars that we are seeig are not PAYED for, wake up , time to smell the FARM. This farming and selling ISK is what drives the war machines... ive see it may times. Its all good for the community, and you dont thik that CCP could stamp out the ISK sellers if thry realy wanted too ? ISK = WAR = Keep EVE alive and fun. Lets face it if no1 was buying ISK from the farmers then the farmers would move to another MMO, but still they farm on, soooooo some one is buying the ISK.... or maybe its the space faires. .... man 15 in Queue.... whish i could buy a insta jump . We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE
Himani Yeshua Caldari PezCo - Ice Services United Connection's	Posted - 2006.12.12 06:13:00 - [5] Farmers suck. Is that Constructive? ---------------------------------------------- Disclaimers are stupid. Of Course your views represent those of your corporation.
J Frost Gallente The Tafflington Trust	Posted - 2006.12.12 06:13:00 - [6] First of all, thx to the OP for stopping that useless argue, and start something helpful. I'm a carebear running missions in high sec areas, so I won't help much for combat tactics. However, I think even by disturbing the farmers would work, since the farmers are extremely Efficiency-Focused. If ppl loot their cans and attacks, they'll encounter a lot higher probability of loosing ships, or longer time than they usually use to complete the complex, and that made the farming cost raises, which means less profit for their RL money. In that case, I've not seen farmers ever started war initiatively. They are focused on Time vs ISK ratio, and war between player pilots is the last thing they would ever want. So, farmers would normally go away and come back to check if the place is safe again in a while. At least that's how farmers work in WOW as far as I know.
Synapse Archae Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.12 06:20:00 - [7] Originally by: J Frost First of all, thx to the OP for stopping that useless argue, and start something helpful. I'm a carebear running missions in high sec areas, so I won't help much for combat tactics. However, I think even by disturbing the farmers would work, since the farmers are extremely Efficiency-Focused. If ppl loot their cans and attacks, they'll encounter a lot higher probability of loosing ships, or longer time than they usually use to complete the complex, and that made the farming cost raises, which means less profit for their RL money. In that case, I've not seen farmers ever started war initiatively. They are focused on Time vs ISK ratio, and war between player pilots is the last thing they would ever want. So, farmers would normally go away and come back to check if the place is safe again in a while. At least that's how farmers work in WOW as far as I know. You're abolutely right. The easiest way to get farmers to leave a system is to show them a viable alternative. Make sure they know if they moved to that other complex down the road, they could farm there without your constant harrassment. The level of pressure you put on them will always make a difference in the speed that they move, but even low level griefing will have an effect, because as J Frost points out, efficiency is their goal. Focus on disrupting their rythmns, deny them an hour here and there just because you can, even if you get no kills and they sit in station. Players might sit and laugh at you for tactics like that, but farmers will leave if they can. They don't want trouble in their operation, and every hour or ship they lose has a real cost in real money for them. - - - These elite slaves are exceptionally well suited for physical labor.
Soporo	Posted - 2006.12.12 06:25:00 - [8] Op is probably right, experienced and focused PvP'ers can come up with anything against anyone, eventually. The point is people shouldnt have to. CCP should deal with it. EVE certainly caters to the real life wallet having an effect on in-game efficiency through multiple accounts. Couple that with ISK sales and purchases and I honestly dont have any idea where it leads down the road to its logical conclusion. I somehow DOUBT it will be good.
Synapse Archae Amarr Solarflare Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.12 06:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Synapse Archae on 12/12/2006 06:31:12 Originally by: Soporo Op is probably right, experienced and focused PvP'ers can come up with anything against anyone, eventually. The point is people shouldnt have to. CCP should deal with it. EVE certainly caters to the real life wallet having an effect on in-game efficiency through multiple accounts. Couple that with ISK sales and purchases and I honestly dont have any idea where it leads down the road to its logical conclusion. I somehow DOUBT it will be good. It is certainly better here than it is in other games. Trying to fight farmers in level based games like RF Online and Lineage II is suicide, because the system so heavily favors those who can spend all day online. We have CCP to thank for the balance that allows casual players to match farmers at all. That doesn't mean there isn't more they(CCP) could do. - - - These elite slaves are exceptionally well suited for physical labor.
J Frost Gallente The Tafflington Trust	Posted - 2006.12.12 06:35:00 - [10] Edited by: J Frost on 12/12/2006 06:35:30 Originally by: Soporo Op is probably right, experienced and focused PvP'ers can come up with anything against anyone, eventually. The point is people shouldnt have to. CCP should deal with it. EVE certainly caters to the real life wallet having an effect on in-game efficiency through multiple accounts. Couple that with ISK sales and purchases and I honestly dont have any idea where it leads down the road to its logical conclusion. I somehow DOUBT it will be good. That's what I thought in the very beginning, but gave up later. I don't know the reason why CCP didn't take effective action towards farmers and farming, but there gotta be some reason. I'm simply not smart enough to figure that out. However, as the fact lies, the only way we can solve the problem without help from CCP, would be players forces. Of course, if you got any other ideas, you are highly welcomed to discuss with everyone with the same goal.
Max Grief Minmatar Wreckless Abandon The UnAssociated	Posted - 2006.12.12 07:03:00 - [11] yeah i feel your pain bud. basicly you have to do what has been suggested, spend every second you have harassing the crap out of them. Otherwise move to low sec. Yes there are piartes that camp thoes plex's, but you have a chance to kill them as opposed to getting an anurism from the stress.
Aphotic Raven Gallente WMD Special Forces Dark Forces Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.12 08:09:00 - [12] people often accuse people of farming for ice... why? isk vs. reward is low.. so just maybe.. they're actually there... then again maybe they are selling the ice for real cash or fuelling farming POS's But what about carebears.. surely it would be easier for farmers to just run L4s all day... these farmers you speak of might be just players who like a lot of isk... hell if i could haul enough in to pay for GTCs with isk i probably would Maybe they just really want a lot of cash... Quote: Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be **ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ***** nerf. True story
Merchant Lady	Posted - 2006.12.12 08:53:00 - [13] Originally by: J Frost That's what I thought in the very beginning, but gave up later. I don't know the reason why CCP didn't take effective action towards farmers and farming, but there gotta be some reason. I'm simply not smart enough to figure that out. I think the reason is quite simple. It's called "Inflation". The effect the farmers generate by farming ISK and then selling it, is that prices go up because more money is in the economic system of eve. That's only good for CCP, because they don't just earn money from the accounts of the famers but also from people having to get more money in the game to pay higher prices for e.g. Gametimecards payed in ISK. And I think the only effectiv way to beat farmers, is to beat them by (this time RL) economics. /Utopia-Mode Build or use a big corp to farm ISK yourself and sell it on ebay yourself always undercutting the (real) Farmers prices. Do this as lang as they understand that it's better to leave and seek another MMORPG. Problem solved. /Utopia-Mode off /Don't-blame-me-for-accusations-Mode If I were CCP I would probably think about selling ISK myself incognito. When people want to pay REAL cash for things, i can generate via a mouseclick in unlimited dimensions..........whuuuuuaaaa /Don't-blame-me-for-accusations-Mode off
J Frost Gallente The Tafflington Trust	Posted - 2006.12.12 09:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Merchant Lady /Utopia-Mode Build or use a big corp to farm ISK yourself and sell it on ebay yourself always undercutting the (real) Farmers prices. Do this as lang as they understand that it's better to leave and seek another MMORPG. Problem solved. /Utopia-Mode off lol! I like that! ahahaha!!!!!!
Yokai Milanis	Posted - 2006.12.12 09:47:00 - [15] Quite frankly there's a lot of things you can do to these guys, unfortunately all the ones I can think of will require combat. The aid of some mercs and pirates will also help. If this is in low sec as I recal from your last thread post the location and pirates will happily take care of the rest. The tricky part is if they are in empire space not low-sec or 0.0 then you'll have to pull out the underhanded tricks. A variety of Concordoken triggers could help you. If they are using smart bombs get in a cloaked ship slip into range they hit you, and concordoken. You could also target them and the rats, shoot the rats, don't hit them. Be sure to aggro a lot of rats so they don't know who's shooting, they may then target and hit you, and concordoken. You can start looting cans right in front of them, they aggro you, and you can fire back and blow them up. This of course is best done with a group of friends. You could gang invite them, and then gang invite someone else from another corp who has a war dec. Then have the war decing group come in and hit the farmers. Basically just get a group of friends and harrass them using all the tricks above and any others you can think of. There's lot of underhanded things you can do and a pirate will probably know even more than I've posted. Anyways I think they sound like a good fun evening.
Ben Derindar Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.12 09:57:00 - [16] Plexes have been borked almost from the day they were introduced. CCP needs to introduce a mechanic that bars characters from accessing the same complex no more often than say, once a week. That, or remove them altogether. Either way's fine with me. /Ben How to fix Eve
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.12.12 10:31:00 - [17] One of the main issues is that they sit inside the complex cloaked and pop the npc's whenever they noticed that they respawned. How about making cloaks not work in complexes, or have lots of bits flying around the place that will eventually decloak someone... Or just do what people say here and blow them up (I particularly like the suggestion of waiting until most of the group has jumped to the next room and catch the last one on his own and pop him ... heehee, only do-able in low sec though) alas, poor risk vs reward, I knew you well
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2006.12.12 10:40:00 - [18] Edited by: Wild Rho on 12/12/2006 10:41:42 The whole complex issue needs reworked from the ground up. The fact that people see complexes as isk farms instead of some sort of challenge shows somthing's gone wrong. Tbh they should all move to a random system when cleared and respawn at random times regardless of DT. It's not a perfect solution but it would encourage more exploration for one thing. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Roy Batty68	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:31:00 - [19] The only issue I have with complexes are keys. Keys = instancing in EVE. EVE isn't supposed to have instances. Why does it? As far as farming goes, if anyone could get into the complexes at any time, it would self govern quite nicely. Originally by: Big Al Well, if there was a law against stupidity, the server would certainly lag less.
Countess Kari Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:52:00 - [20] A simple fix for this would be to limit the number of times these farmers can enter a complex, like once a day. I am sure taht would slow down the farming and give others a chance to do the complex
Radioactive Babe	Posted - 2006.12.12 11:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Roy Batty68 The only issue I have with complexes are keys. Keys = instancing in EVE. EVE isn't supposed to have instances. Why does it? As far as farming goes, if anyone could get into the complexes at any time, it would self govern quite nicely. Not as much of a problem as you would think, a lot of people would have keys in their hangars .... I know when I was in 0.0 it was common for someone to run in, kill npc with key, grab key and dock ... no-one else (i.e. RA) can get past the gate, you can come back later with a group alas, poor risk vs reward, I knew you well
Lenaria Caldari Draconis Navitas Aeterna	Posted - 2006.12.12 12:00:00 - [22] Originally by: Ben Derindar Plexes have been borked almost from the day they were introduced. CCP needs to introduce a mechanic that bars characters from accessing the same complex no more often than say, once a week. That, or remove them altogether. Either way's fine with me. /Ben Dude, you fail to realise whay CCP have put all high-lvl complexes in low sec or 0.0. The reason for that is simply - the CCP wants to encourage players to actually FIGHT over these complexes. So whoever have better PvP skills = win and can get all profit from complexes. For casual players who want just NPC in safe space there are missions always available. More profitable complexes are for players who dont afraid to fight for them and use all dirty tricks they can imagine. So dont whine, get a gang and kill these farmers if you like it.
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.12 12:13:00 - [23] of course CCPs paln to shfit to a 100% exploration model also has benefit make plex finding random with movement of plexes and types etc each dt with a wide variance even within each encounter and u can destroy farming to a large degree make it multiplayer and player corp friendly make it less advantagous to NPC solo players and u will discourage that form of farming These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2006.12.12 12:20:00 - [24] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 12/12/2006 12:22:05 Originally by: Lenaria The reason for that is simply - the CCP wants to encourage players to actually FIGHT over these complexes. So whoever have better PvP skills = win and can get all profit from complexes. The key thing goes exactly against that premise though, which is why I would like to see them gone. Or allow people to access the gates without keys as well, maybe with the hacking skill. Have it take quite some time, but at least make it possible. It should NOT require cloaked recon ship that was previously inserted and has to wait for a looong time to bust plex farmers. That mission locations are currently MUCH more open to PvP than complexes is so wrong it ain't funny. --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
Kaizek Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2006.12.12 12:23:00 - [25] Mioght be interesting if CCP added Lockout timers to complexes so that they cant be farmed over and over again. Problem is is probably doesnt stop them from staying in there for hours when they are already inside.
Too Kind	Posted - 2006.12.12 13:43:00 - [26] Edited by: Too Kind on 12/12/2006 13:44:10 Originally by: Lenaria Edited by: Lenaria on 12/12/2006 12:02:39 Originally by: Ben Derindar Plexes have been borked almost from the day they were introduced. CCP needs to introduce a mechanic that bars characters from accessing the same complex no more often than say, once a week. That, or remove them altogether. Either way's fine with me. /Ben Dude, you fail to realise whay CCP have put all high-lvl complexes in low sec or 0.0. The reason for that is simply - the CCP wants to encourage players to actually FIGHT over these complexes. So whoever have better PvP skills = win and can get all profit from complexes. For casual players who want just NPC in safe space there are missions always available. More profitable complexes are for players who dont afraid to fight for them and use all dirty tricks they can imagine. So dont whine, get a gang and kill these farmers if you like it. The only point a agree with you - keys placeholders for higher stages should spawn much more often - like every hour or so. So every one could obtain them in resonable time if they want to bust farmers. In 0.0 we need no key-holders at all. Just let the plex spawn randomly twice a day and let everyone in. I mean it's 0.0. If an alliance wants to farm the plex, they can secure it. That would stop all this key farming, the run for the plex after DT etc., e.g. stop dedicated alts ninja'ing certain plexes each day and stuff like that. -------------------------- Post with your main !!!111
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.12 13:47:00 - [27] Everything is ok cause you can have a recourse to stop the them for any reason. War decing is the only resolution. But I say that if complexes have NPC corporations players in them we will fail. Bring done griefing by NPC corporation players. They will harm more than any pirate. They are pirates. Read my sig ------------------------------------- New NPC

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