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zzzra
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.08.27 06:10:36 -
[1] - Quote
1. I'm wondering if buying an industrial ship with a covert ops cloaking device (viator) will let me move stuff in hisec around pretty much safe from gate campers in destroyers. I'm guessing that 100% safety is impossible, just safe from the average ganker.
2. Is ganking more difficult in a 1.0 system than a 0.5? Or is there some other reason they would be less inclined to gank in 1.0? |
Trevor Dalech
We pooped on your lawn Resonance.
145
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Posted - 2015.08.27 06:20:03 -
[2] - Quote
If you have insta dock/undock bookmarks, and ALWAYS use your cloak, you should be 99.99% safe. The only risk is if you happen to get decloaked by something.
Most viators get blown up because they fail to turn on their cloak for some reason (because they are autopiloting for example) |
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5285
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Posted - 2015.08.27 06:30:36 -
[3] - Quote
Best bet if you want to learn how not to be ganked is to try your hand at ganking for a while yourself. You'll learn a lot and that information will help you evade gankers.
A viator that has a cloak and doesn't screw up is very hard to kill. As is, for that matter, a tanked freighter with a combat and utility escort (something I've only seen a couple of times).
On 0.5 and 1.0 - CONCORD will show up considerably faster in a 1.0 system. This means we need more firepower to pop you and it costs us more (in both ships and player time), and it also means our available resources might not be up to the task at all. So yes, 1.0 is less unsafe than 0.5, but an Iteron even under gate gun protection can still be ganked easily by two players in cheap ships in a 1.0.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
4305
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Posted - 2015.08.27 06:37:38 -
[4] - Quote
+1 for asking how to deal with it instead of demanding it be removed.
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Bitevni Shalina
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.08.27 07:37:38 -
[5] - Quote
zzzra wrote:1. I'm wondering if buying an industrial ship with a covert ops cloaking device (viator) will let me move stuff in hisec around pretty much safe from gate campers in destroyers. I'm guessing that 100% safety is impossible, just safe from the average ganker.
2. Is ganking more difficult in a 1.0 system than a 0.5? Or is there some other reason they would be less inclined to gank in 1.0?
1. Basically - yes. With proper fit (tank and agility) you will give gankers hard time to catch you. But it is not 100 procent impossible. Another good option for very low volume is Luxury Yacht. Fitted with factional inertia stabs or full set of Genolution implants it can warp in less, than 2 seconds. Best ship to move skill books or blue prints. Specialized gallente transports are better suited to move goods in safe high sec and Wreath is the best T1 industrial ship for mwd/cloak, IMHO.
Actually, you do not really need viator to move goods in high sec. Ship itself is expensive and if you get even more expensive stuff in it - you will be ganked even in 1.0 anyway. If you need a test - join gallente militia and try to jump from Erma to Villore. Even empty gallente militia transport will be insta locked and poped in a matter of second. So key thing is not transport too much expensive stuff in one time. Specialized gallente transports are better suited to move goods in safe high sec.
I would never ever in any ship undock in major trade hub or come to the any gate with PLEX in my cargo.
2. Yes, cause concord reaction time is shorter. 0.5: Roughly 19 seconds 0.6: Roughly 14 seconds 0.7 : Roughly 10 seconds 0.8 : Roughly 7 seconds 0.9 and 1.0: Roughly 6 seconds
But there is ways how to keep concord from comming much longer by distracting it somewhere far far away from you.
This is what I would use: [Viator, warp stab] 'Halcyon' Core Equalizer I 'Halcyon' Core Equalizer I 'Halcyon' Core Equalizer I
10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot]
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II Medium Cargohold Optimization II
Giant Secure Container Huge Secure Container Large Standard Container
Warp away time is about 4,5 second. Warp stabilizers cause I suck in reaction time.
[Viator, agility] Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II
10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot]
Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II Medium Cargohold Optimization II
Giant Secure Container Huge Secure Container Large Standard Container
Warp away time is less, then 3 seconds. Which can be more safe if you are good in clicking and pressing buttons, cause gankers probably has more than 3 effective points, so 3 stabs will not save you.
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Do Little
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
126
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Posted - 2015.08.27 08:39:45 -
[6] - Quote
I use a Blockade Runner for most of my high sec hauling and my only loss was docking in Jita, If you land outside the docking ring, gankers will have time for an alpha shot.
You can deal with this either by making an insta-dock bookmark or by fitting a buffer tank - being lazy, I chose to tank my ship and have survived a subsequent ganking attempt.
Gankers can't scan a blockade runner so they are playing roulette when they attack one - hoping the cargo drop is worth more than their ship.
At gates in high-sec your only real risk is getting de-cloaked by a nearby ship. Since a blockade runner can warp in 4 seconds, you should be OK if your tank can survive the alpha shot from a Tornado. I fit a large shield extender and 2 shield resistance amplifiers for 20K EHP which has been sufficient thus far. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1488
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Posted - 2015.08.27 11:42:12 -
[7] - Quote
zzzra wrote:1. I'm wondering if buying an industrial ship with a covert ops cloaking device (viator) will let me move stuff in hisec around pretty much safe from gate campers in destroyers. I'm guessing that 100% safety is impossible, just safe from the average ganker. The Blockade Runner is a good choice for small things. As was said, always using the cloak and having insta-dock and undocks will keep you safe.
And a good alternative is the Deep Space Transport. Fit with an active tank and with their overheating bonus, the DSTs can rival freighters in EHP but are much harder to bump. They hold much more than Blockade Runners.
Both need to be actively piloted to be safe though. But flown properly, either will make you 99.9+% safe to casual gankers so only if you do something extremely silly (like stuffing many billions of ISK of goods in) to attract attention will you be at any real risk. |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
379
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Posted - 2015.08.27 19:20:37 -
[8] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:And a good alternative is the Deep Space Transport. Fit with an active tank and with their overheating bonus, the DSTs can rival freighters in EHP but are much harder to bump. They hold much more than Blockade Runners. The good news is that training for a blockade runner will automatically give you access to the same racial deep transport - so you might take that into consideration when you choose which BR to train for.
I use a blockade runner for anything of high value that doesn't fit in a Stratios. The BR is quite fast! Suggest you fit it with cargohold rigs and then use the low slots for agility, tank or cargo as needed. BR will also allow you to expand your horizons into low sec and WH's.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
728
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Posted - 2015.08.27 20:04:51 -
[9] - Quote
Bitevni Shalina wrote: Actually, you do not really need viator to move goods in high sec. Ship itself is expensive and if you get even more expensive stuff in it - you will be ganked even in 1.0 anyway.
The Viator is immune to cargo scanners. Gankers can not tell if you have nothing or 500 PLEX in your cargohold. This is important because even empty you are at a much higher risk of getting ganked than any other empty ship in game and the ship is not cheap to begin with. So if you buy one you need to be on your toes at all times, full of expensive cargo or empty. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5300
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Posted - 2015.08.27 21:19:42 -
[10] - Quote
You don't need w-stabs nor tank on a blockade runner because if you are uncloaked ANYWHERE, boom!
The covert cloak is a blockade runner's tank. When this module is inactive, there is no tank! Boom!
All the blockade runners have roughly the same stats when fitted "properly" = roughly 8k m3 of cargo. All of them can be fitted differently however, emphasizing one or more attributes at the expense of others. The Amarr Prorator is arguably the most flexible BR.
There are some people that will tell you to fit for speed and agility, but that really isn't needed in hisec or lowsec. However, it can help when dodging bubbles in nulsec and w-space.
Cargo expander rigs and modules, as well as i-stabs, are considered bad by people that don't know the differences between the ships, nor when to use these rigs and modules.
Insta-dock and undock bookmarks are ESSENTIAL on stations you frequent.
Tip: Jita 4 Moon 1 is aligned with the 4-4 undock. It is really easy to make an insta-undock bookmark between them.
Tip: Amarr botttom-eject undocks are easy to bookmark if you turn-on tactical, click on the station, and fly down the line in a shuttle or fast frigate.
Example: My Caldari Cranes are fitted with T2 Cargo rigs, and I always carry i-stabs and cargo expanders for the low-slots, and change them as needed with preference to i-stabs. I also fit EM amp to fill the massive 0% EM hole when cloacked. MWD and invulnerability field (only useful when unclocked, so OVERLOAD!!) round-out the fit. I wouldn't fit the other BR like this though.
I take shortcut trips through lowsec all the time in my Crane (my Crane has been in nulsec and w-space too). I've only lost one Crane in the past 6 years, and that was in Jita when I accidentally warped to station instead of my insta-dock bookmark. |
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Paranoid Loyd
6781
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Posted - 2015.08.27 21:21:21 -
[11] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:You don't need w-stabs nor tank on a blockade runner because if you are uncloaked ANYWHERE, boom! QFT
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
479
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Posted - 2015.08.28 00:03:29 -
[12] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Tip: Amarr botttom-eject undocks are easy to bookmark if you turn-on tactical, click on the station, and fly down the line in a shuttle or fast frigate. You can also use the tac overview on many other stations where the undock aligns along one of the sets of numbers :)
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1491
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Posted - 2015.08.28 01:21:38 -
[13] - Quote
I just moved 8bil in a blockade runner through most of the prominent ganking systems a few nights ago. Although 9/10 times I'm empty or carrying <100m in stuff. on my alts that can fly them I usually just use them like shuttles in case I want to pick something up on the way.
I'd also say your main problem will be someone with a tornado or two that is bored and wants a kill. Don't see any shiny haulers so might as well play a blockade runner lottery before bed.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
0
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Posted - 2015.08.28 08:43:29 -
[14] - Quote
When you decide to take on the non-combat road, You have to take it to the heart. Your most important shield is info. If you take all the steps to ensure your ship can survive but you go around talking too much or making jokes about valueables and trips you take, you just seeking your own demise.
Do not underestimate the capacity for people to be on the watch for you. First and foremost, if you take the transport of valuables seriously, get it done by a pilot that only does that. That pilot wont talk on local, wont talk on corp (should not even be in your corp), wont express views in forums, it must be stealthy as a pilot before it is in flying a ship.
That alone will ensure a lot about you not getting ganked. Contracts and market offers are created often with the intent of taking you into dangerous routes so people can gank you, not only for the cargo, but for the colateral or for your personality itself. When you get a anonymous alt, people doing that will be on the look out for your corp, your name, and often will dismiss unknown seemingly uninteresting pilots. Take that to your advantage.
After you are secure that your pilot are only at the mercy of case by case evaluation on the spot, then you start worrying about how to fit your ship. |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
1114
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Posted - 2015.08.28 11:30:39 -
[15] - Quote
If you're patient the Deep Space Transport is the way to go in highsec. I can understand the need for speed though. I'd pick the Crane for highsec in those cases.
[Crane, Tank]
Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Gist X-Type EM Ward Field Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
[Crane, Warp]
Damage Control II Expanded Cargohold II
Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Gist X-Type EM Ward Field Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Medium Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II |
Kairos Antilles
Project Kairos The Bastion
61
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Posted - 2015.08.30 08:46:29 -
[16] - Quote
Do Little wrote:I use a Blockade Runner for most of my high sec hauling...
Don't let your management read that.
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Desert Frog
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
16
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Posted - 2015.08.30 09:51:09 -
[17] - Quote
Kairos Antilles wrote:Do Little wrote:I use a Blockade Runner for most of my high sec hauling... Don't let your management read that.
Too late.
Bedouin of the galactic shipping lanes...
+é+» +º+ä+¿+¦+º+¦+è+½ +à+å +ú+ä+ü +º+ä+¼+à+º+ä +¬+¦+¦+ê +ú+ê+ä+ª+â +º+ä+¦+è+å +ü+¦+è+¦+¬ +¦+ä+ë +º+ä+¦+ü+º+»+¦
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Luther Mandrix1 Hemanseh
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL RUST415
3
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Posted - 2015.08.30 10:56:32 -
[18] - Quote
Trevor Dalech wrote:If you have insta dock/undock bookmarks, and ALWAYS use your cloak, you should be 99.99% safe. The only risk is if you happen to get decloaked by something.
Most viators get blown up because they fail to turn on their cloak for some reason (because they are autopiloting for example)
How many meters from the station do you make Dock bookmarks and undock Bookmark How do you use a insta undock Bookmark?
How do you sort your Bookmarks so its not a mess? |
Luther Mandrix1 Hemanseh
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL RUST415
3
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Posted - 2015.08.30 10:57:47 -
[19] - Quote
Luther Mandrix1 Hemanseh wrote:Trevor Dalech wrote:If you have insta dock/undock bookmarks, and ALWAYS use your cloak, you should be 99.99% safe. The only risk is if you happen to get decloaked by something.
Most viators get blown up because they fail to turn on their cloak for some reason (because they are autopiloting for example) How many meters from the station do you make Dock bookmarks and undock Bookmark How do you use a insta undock Bookmark? How do you sort your Bookmarks so its not a mess?
So at Gates i can mark a Bookmark to get me closer to it than just warping to gate as normal. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11510
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Posted - 2015.08.30 15:13:38 -
[20] - Quote
Luther Mandrix1 Hemanseh wrote:Trevor Dalech wrote:If you have insta dock/undock bookmarks, and ALWAYS use your cloak, you should be 99.99% safe. The only risk is if you happen to get decloaked by something.
Most viators get blown up because they fail to turn on their cloak for some reason (because they are autopiloting for example) How many meters from the station do you make Dock bookmarks and undock Bookmark How do you use a insta undock Bookmark? How do you sort your Bookmarks so its not a mess? https://youtu.be/AkBa57JL3Nc
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5307
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Posted - 2015.08.31 21:20:41 -
[21] - Quote
Luther Mandrix1 Hemanseh wrote:How many meters from the station do you make Dock bookmarks and undock Bookmark 0 m for dock, more than 150 km for undock.
Use frigate with a MWD (Interceptors are great), or even just an AB, or heck a shuttle or rookie ship will do, and undock. Note your trajectory, and correct your path to be straight out the undock; activating the tactical display and clicking on the station can help with this.
When a celestial is aligned with the undock, warp to the celestial, and make a bookmark mid-way before you arrive (helps to make several and later cull the bad ones). You can verify the bookmark position using the map.
Luther Mandrix1 Hemanseh wrote:How do you use a insta undock Bookmark? Erm... you right-click and select warp.
Luther Mandrix1 Hemanseh wrote:How do you sort your Bookmarks so its not a mess? Create a sub-folder called "undock" and another called "dock". Drag-and-drop bookmarks into this sub-folder.
When you right-click in space, you can select the bookmark you want, as only the ones for the current system will show.
I tend to prefix the boomarks with "( dock )" or "( undock )", system, planet, and moon, e.g. "Jita 4-4"
Perch bookmarks, ones >150 km but on the same grid as they are intended for observation of a station or gate, I prefix with "( perch )" for stations and "( gate )" for gates. Those have a sub-folder too.
Tactical bookmarks used in combat I prefix with "( tac )". |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1549
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Posted - 2015.09.01 00:23:07 -
[22] - Quote
Luther Mandrix1 Hemanseh wrote:Trevor Dalech wrote:If you have insta dock/undock bookmarks, and ALWAYS use your cloak, you should be 99.99% safe. The only risk is if you happen to get decloaked by something.
Most viators get blown up because they fail to turn on their cloak for some reason (because they are autopiloting for example) How many meters from the station do you make Dock bookmarks and undock Bookmark How do you use a insta undock Bookmark? How do you sort your Bookmarks so its not a mess? dock bookmarks should be close to the station, for stations like jita 4-4 it is convenient to place it right on the undock as the station has a large bubble around it where you can dock. Some stations like EFA I have a spot kinda right in the middle of the station on the side, although that might be dangerous if you aren't paying attention, think I've bumped on it a few times, but I've been paying attention so I dock before I get bumped out of range. The undock point is pretty close to the edge of the station's dock bubble. If you warp to a dock bookmark you should always be able to dock, if you can't you need to get closer to the station.
undocks I usually go at least 400km. The very minimum I want is to drop off grid from the station. some of mine are 10,000km+ although on grid instas aren't always bad. That said Grids are somewhat dynamic so you might want to drop off, and then keep going for a while.
as for organization... I usually just label them stuff like 4-4 undock, and 4-4 insta. Usually only have one per system. If I have a lot of bookmarks in a system i put a '.' in front so it comes up first alphabetically. Heck my 4-4 undock bookmark is just called "undock" and my insta is "spot in Jita solar system" but they are my only 2 BMs in jita so it works.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
1044
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Posted - 2015.09.13 09:22:35 -
[23] - Quote
You can fit an Industrial to do the Cloak/MWD trick with some tinkering. Along with some WCSs just in case that should do the trick for even cheap Indis. Never tried I-stabs instead, though.
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
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Skyweir Kinnison
Federal Museum Ethnological Acquisitions
81
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Posted - 2015.09.13 09:57:06 -
[24] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote: undocks I usually go at least 400km. The very minimum I want is to drop off grid from the station. some of mine are 10,000km+ although on grid instas aren't always bad. That said Grids are somewhat dynamic so you might want to drop off, and then keep going for a while.
Really helpful stuff, thank you.
May I ask - how do you make dock/undock bookmarks - or even safes, etc - in a hostile system? The undocks especially seem to require a long time at sub-warp speed (since there's nothing to warp to and one has to maintain a set line) which makes one very vulnerable.
Is there a trick to it or just try and pick a quiet time and hope?
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
1044
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Posted - 2015.09.13 10:47:46 -
[25] - Quote
With an Interceptor around Downtime
Forum-unbanned since 2011.10.20.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1681
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Posted - 2015.09.13 19:05:48 -
[26] - Quote
either a ceptor, when they aren't really paying attention. Or take a cloaked ship, and go afk for a while. Much slower, but rather safe. If no one is paying attention you can mwd, and if someone does come you can cloak up and glide out. worst case you bookmark where you are and warp off and come back a bit later as they probably won't sit on your spot for long.
@ChainsawPlankto
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