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Afonso Henriques Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.12.13 06:33:00 - [1] I'm just curious to know if this has adversly effect piracy in low-sec. I can't seem to find any info on this and would like to know how things are now.
Packtu'sa Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.13 06:35:00 - [2] Not really. People would have had instas before, it doesn't really change much. It might have even helped piracy, since now ships can move anywhere, thus hitting pirates more often perhaps. Packtu'sa Founder/CEO Nabaal Construction and Industrials Corp [NCIC]
Dark Kavar	Posted - 2006.12.13 06:55:00 - [3] Plus you can still gate camp with some sensor links and sensor boosters. With enough you can get almost an insta lock and warp jam.
Oarta	Posted - 2006.12.13 06:57:00 - [4] For Low-sec it has forced pirates to move on the other side of the gate to catch active pilots. Auto-pilot users can still be killed in the same manner. Overall the number of people falling victim to gate camps has dropped a bit, although it has emboldened more players to risk the travel route. None the less, skilled pirates will still get their prey.
Miss Overlord Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order	Posted - 2006.12.13 07:08:00 - [5] some pirates have moved to war dec each other others are moving to a NPC-piracy combo These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views This is a disclaimer
Steph Wing Gallente Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2006.12.13 07:43:00 - [6] It's sort of reversed the ol' gate camp. Instead of waiting for people leaving system to warp onto a gate, they wait for people entering a system to warp away from a gate. I can personally attest to the effectiveness of said tactic. It hits ya just as hard. --- "I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
Eranos	Posted - 2006.12.13 07:48:00 - [7] gatecampers != pirats And yes, gatecamping is still possible but you need a bit more skills (or like some gatecampers found out, simply more gatecampers )
Aphotic Raven Gallente WMD Special Forces Dark Forces Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 07:56:00 - [8] Warp to 0 is fine, but solo is now dead. the art of PVP is a goner... 10 guys at a gate gives you a chance to catch someone... also ceptors have trouble locking down assault frigs before they can warp... why the hell do we need to put sensor boosters on ceptors to make them worthwhile?? its hard to catch anything. (unless you bubble camp with 50 guys... but i think thats pretty lame) Quote: Melicien Tetro: I tried to fight a shark with a pistol underwater once, and I'll be **ed if he didn't laugh at me and eat me. Sharks need a ***** nerf. True story
Spanker Genco	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:15:00 - [9] Mission runners in lowsec are feeling this more than anyone else - Shpank
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2006.12.13 08:51:00 - [10] Gate camping requires more teamwork. As for belt piracy, i have noticed a slight uptrend in the number of people ratting and mining, which is good. WCS in general seem to be less common, though a few ratters are still using them.So far i have only have people warp out when I've had one point on them though, so it looks like the change is having the desired effect. Probing is now a dream, making combat in lowsec far more common.Ive jumped a whole lot of people at safespots and missions and have even been probed out by some organised anti-pirates. In short, less camping, more hunting. All is well ________________ What you do is you store up the rage, let it fester while you gain strength, then use it to gank those weaker than you... and so the circle of life is complete
PCaBoo Newbies On Xstacy	Posted - 2006.12.13 10:04:00 - [11] As a pirate, I can tell you it hurts. I'm from a small pirate corp and gatecamping is almost impossible now without at least 10 people. Which of course cuts down on your profit margin. Warp to zero protects those leaving, but it also makes it quite dangerous for gatecampers. Most pirates will have a scout on the other side of the gate to see what's worth attacking, what's not, what's a potential threat, etc... but now with warp to zero, anyone can warp to the gate at 0km (including a gank squad) and ruin your day. Most anti-pi's/thrillseekers had instas already, but now anyone can wtz and be a threat. Especially in low-sec while we're under the guns. Even a cruiser with a decent tank can jump in and scramble a lone BS until the sentries take it down. It also makes it tougher to catch people in belts. You might be warping in as they're warping out and now with wtz, you have no chance of running him down trying to warp to wherever. I was against the whole idea, but with the new scan probe system, I was content with new missioner targets. Unfortunately they're nerfing that today. So basically a lot of pirates are starving to death. I know everyone's probably giddy with joy, but just wait til CCP comes after your e-livelyhood. What goes around comes around.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:42:00 - [12] Edited by: DarkMatter on 13/12/2006 11:42:17 Quote: So basically a lot of pirates are starving to death. This game has always had too many pirates, CCP has finally taken the steps neccessary to weed out the ones who can't hack it... There has always been too many pirates & too few targets, hopefully this will change with today's patch... This game has come a long way, and finally CCP has realized that 50% of your playerbase cannot be pirates, it just doesn't work... What the players do who want to be pirates but can't hack it and starve to death? dunno, have to find a new EVE career I guess... Maybe faction war, getting involved in that will help lower the pirate numbers even further... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Rooman Black Seriously Corrupt Information Industries	Posted - 2006.12.13 11:52:00 - [13] Originally by: PCaBoo Warp to zero protects those leaving, but it also makes it quite dangerous for gatecampers. A good result then. There must be risk in every element of the game. Being able to gate camp with no risk is as bad as being able to run the gamp with no risk. Seems to me the odds have been made better and more people are heading to 0.0 which in the long term will be good for all. - Rule one of eve club, don't talk about eve club Rule two of eve club....click
PCaBoo Newbies On Xstacy	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:04:00 - [14] Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 13/12/2006 11:42:17 Quote: So basically a lot of pirates are starving to death. This game has always had too many pirates, CCP has finally taken the steps neccessary to weed out the ones who can't hack it... There has always been too many pirates & too few targets, hopefully this will change with today's patch... This game has come a long way, and finally CCP has realized that 50% of your playerbase cannot be pirates, it just doesn't work... What the players do who want to be pirates but can't hack it and starve to death? dunno, have to find a new EVE career I guess... Maybe faction war, getting involved in that will help lower the pirate numbers even further... I think you're grouping a few too many people into the 'pirate' category. There are many who will attack anyone to get a kill and then there are pirates who do it as a profession. I have no qualms with being called a gankbear or whatnot (I do attack people that I have no intention of ransoming or looting out of boredom), I have no problems with them changing things to make everyone's gameplay better, but I do have problems with them singling out a certain group of players just to appease the few who do not share in our opinions and choice of play style. They say adapt or die, but like the ice-age, sometimes even the strong cannot survive. I'm sure everyone believes that if all the pirates disappeared, that Eve would become some sort of utopian garden of eden or something. I think it would diminish the game immensely. Every role in this game is important. It keeps the game balanced. Sure, the mega-alliances upset this balance a bit, but for the most part, people have their roles and stick with it because there are ways to avoid whatever pitfalls might be associated with their profession. The only people I ever see complaining about pirates/griefers are those who do not wish to adapt their style of play or can't muster the brainpower to do so and just want CCP to 'fix' it for them. But changes are inevitable and pirates will adapt once again until the next nerf. Sooner or later, time catches up with us all.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2006.12.13 12:28:00 - [15] Edited by: DarkMatter on 13/12/2006 12:33:10 Edited by: DarkMatter on 13/12/2006 12:30:33 The key is balance, that's where the problem has always been... Too many who pirate/gank/grief, etc... There is sweet spot for the % of any career in EVE based on the total population. The pirate ratio has always been too high, because pirating or ganking has been way too easy and attractive to ppl looking for non-political/non-organized PvP... Pirating should be very hard, and it should only encompass a small percentage of the EVE population, making those who are good at it very wealthy, and those who are bad at it to look for another career. Just like anything else in EVE. If you're not a good trader, you won't make squat, etc... The only other PvP outlets have been corp warfare or 0.0 alliances... I'm hoping faction warfare is a new PvP outlet that maybe these ex-pirates who could not cut it turn to for the less political (less time investment overhead than alliance/corp warfare) PvP... Somethign they can log into EVE and be in a fight very quickly, just like their old pirating activities. Quick fix type of PvP... CCP is doing the right thing, the pirate population has needed a nerf for far to long... I think we finally have it. Now the pirates who are any good will have more targets, and more opportunity to make a living from it... Just like a lot of carebears want to go to 0.0 to mine, but they can't, they have to find another way to play. I think many players join EVE thinking they can become a pirate and become rich killing carebears overnight, that's delusional, and I'm glad CCP is finally doing something about this... This game can still be cut-throat for many players, you just better be good at it if you want to make a living from it, just like any other EVE career... Now players who gank for the pure fun of it, then NPC hunt for ISK are not pirates... To me, pirating is a profession, one in which you make your living... Too many "pirates" whine that there are not enough targets, not enough ISK to be made... It's not the proffessions fault, it's the players fault, they're simply not good enough at their craft... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:03:00 - [16] No negative impact. Pirates went back to fast locking tactics. Coupled with the stupidly easy scanning and the easy travelling there are more targets around that are pirated because many pilots think that WTZ makes travelling risk free. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Cipher7	Posted - 2006.12.13 13:32:00 - [17] Edited by: Cipher7 on 13/12/2006 13:32:57 33,000 people online? There should be 1000 pirates operating max, not 11,000 pirates camping every available oriface. Meeting pirates should be a rare treat, when you see one you should be surprised, not annoyed. There definitely SHOULD be piracy and crime in Eve. It just shouldn't be as common and humdrum as it is now.
The Snowman Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:00:00 - [18] hmm, interesting. There seems to be some pirates who arnt really botherd, then there are the pirates are a *****ing and moaning in all kinds of ways.. lol - wtz really has seperated the real pirates from the litte boy wannabe pirates which is fair enough. I never respected players who gate camped, There was no skill to it! so they are no better than drug addicts who turn to shop lifting to feed their filthy habits. I personally think thats its balanced out well and much more realistic! and if a pirate gets me.. well, I will still hate him but I wont feel so bad and ill give my hats off to him. <------------> Poker RPG 60 jumps 'Flop' by..
SwindonBadger 0utbreak	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:05:00 - [19] pirates in low sec? bagh,,,,,
Ryan Scouse'UK	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:24:00 - [20] haha its just so funny... the crying pirates... took there Gate camping away to some degree... you little babys like Ginger magic or whatever he is etc... if you love PVP so much you Leet pirate.. why dont you war dec.. or fight anti pirates etc.. am glad they are goin to fix probes back to the way they were... some of us like to mission run & pvp not just 1 or the other.. :)
MaDeX	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:31:00 - [21] hha hehehe ahahhaa, thats what carebears are doing at us pirates, so i have spent 1 week ratting, oh whats this you have here? A WAR DEC.
MaDeX	Posted - 2006.12.13 14:32:00 - [22] whats your corp ryan, I want some of it. Originally by: Ryan Scouse'UK haha its just so funny... the crying pirates... took there Gate camping away to some degree... you little babys like Ginger magic or whatever he is etc... if you love PVP so much you Leet pirate.. why dont you war dec.. or fight anti pirates etc.. am glad they are goin to fix probes back to the way they were... some of us like to mission run & pvp not just 1 or the other.. :)
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.12.13 15:32:00 - [23] YEAY.. so we can all agree that WTZ only affected the lame wannabe "pirate" campers, the good smart TRUE pirates have adapted and benefitted!!! Now leave my WTZ ALONE!!! ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
Vil'Hem Rekrap	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:48:00 - [24] Interesting read. If I recall, though, wtz wasn't intended to put a curb on piracy, but to cut back on the large number of bms people had saved. So if what goes around (an attempt to cut back on slow logins and whatever other reason the bms were causing problems) does eventually come around (re-introducing (un)said problems) I wouldn't be very surprised. The side effect, which is most of what's mentioned in this thread, is just that...and honestly, the slow learners are always going to feel the bite of the nerf knife, and random game improvements that introduce situations that benefit a specific group, harder and more vocally than anyone else.
Asroha Cloudwalker	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:58:00 - [25] Originally by: Oarta For Low-sec it has forced pirates to move on the other side of the gate to catch active pilots. Auto-pilot users can still be killed in the same manner. Overall the number of people falling victim to gate camps has dropped a bit, although it has emboldened more players to risk the travel route. None the less, skilled pirates will still get their prey. Since when does piracy involve any skill at all besides being int he right place at the right time? Anyone can do that... fortunately we don't have to be pirates and act like total tools to do it...
Lord Artemis Filthy Wyrm	Posted - 2006.12.13 21:59:00 - [26] If you are a pirate and not having much success speak to one of the many experienced pirate corps/alliances. They have found that the change perhaps increased the ability to pirate for two reasons. -WTZ gives the before gun-shy/hesitant to give low sec travel a try. -Mission runners; requires a bit more work but is easier than tanking sentries and dealing with gates or station jumps. _____________________________ ... this space for rent ...
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.13 22:05:00 - [27] This vid by s******dly was made a week after Kali. Piracy... dead? Right. If anything it has improved the game for both pirates and everybody else. Quick travel only means that people will have the hunger to explore the universe more. You dont need instas to every region. Just pick a system and start traveling. And fast it goes. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Sorela Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.13 23:19:00 - [28] Warp to zero will end up being the best thing that ever happened to pirates. It will embolden a great many people to finally venture into low sec for the increased mining and ratting rewards. Not everyone in empire actually likes mission running after all. This combined with the WCS changes and new scanning will probably lead to a surge in piracy. Yet even with that surge more people will come into low-sec because they won't fear the gate camp as much as they once did. They'll realize they can die but even carebears can enjoy the prospect of a bit of pvp as long as it isn't getting sniped to death while slowly running 15km for the gate.
NebulousBlur Minmatar Unknown Shoe Corp. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 23:34:00 - [29] Warp to Zero has performed natural selection on piracy. It's weeded out the weaker solo gate pirates and forced those remaining to band together to become even deadlier than before. Where before you might see a few sniper ships trying to pop individual ships passing through, now you will face entire fleets of battleships and support ships mutually supporting one another to tank the sentries and kill anything that jumps in on their side of the gate. Then there are the smartbombers who are slaughtering anything cruiser size and below as they warp to zero into the gates. Nerfing of the cores means that they aren't going to run away, they're going to make sure they can kill anything that comes in. That's my opinion on what Kali has done to low sec pirate camps.
PCaBoo Newbies On Xstacy	Posted - 2006.12.14 01:25:00 - [30] I said people will adapt or die. I don't know where you flamers see crying. Whiny prats still crying over lost ships from way back. I probably lose more ships and mods in a month than most of you in your entire eve experience. I don't hate everyone for it. I say that's part of the game, next time i'll be smarter about it and move on. Dolts. I see why most eve players avoid the forums like the plague.
ViperVenom Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2006.12.14 10:11:00 - [31] All warp to 0 did is make having a Dictor Very Very important! If your going to camp
Apollo Balthar Minmatar The Sausage Smuggling Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.14 11:37:00 - [32] Originally by: ViperVenom All warp to 0 did is make having a Dictor Very Very important! If your going to camp Yeah, especially in low-sec .... ------------------------------------------------ WTS: tech2 clue
Ishquar Teh'Sainte Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2006.12.14 11:59:00 - [33] Originally by: NebulousBlur Warp to Zero has performed natural selection on piracy. It's weeded out the weaker solo gate pirates and forced those remaining to band together to become even deadlier than before. Where before you might see a few sniper ships trying to pop individual ships passing through, now you will face entire fleets of battleships and support ships mutually supporting one another to tank the sentries and kill anything that jumps in on their side of the gate. Then there are the smartbombers who are slaughtering anything cruiser size and below as they warp to zero into the gates. Nerfing of the cores means that they aren't going to run away, they're going to make sure they can kill anything that comes in. That's my opinion on what Kali has done to low sec pirate camps. my thoughts also - though i have to say - i don't like this development. it becomes too much of a white (100% safe) and black (100% dead) scheme. the greyscale between is where challenge and fun lays - not in the extremes. ___________________ EVE: Revelations - The Game for Carebears and Gankbears no more skill needed for PvP - only skillpoints for Large Bubble and CovOps n00b-alts
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.14 18:39:00 - [34] I just came back after a two year break. I last played in 04, back when there weren't any storyline missions or level 4 agents. I got a microwarp drive for the sole purpose of getting to those gates faster. I didn't care for having to micromanage bookmarks and have fourty of them just to get right next to gates. To me, that was NOT FUN. Personally, I think this change is great. Travel time is now reduced, so I can spend time doing other things. The origional "hate monger"
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:06:00 - [35] Originally by: Oarta For Low-sec it has forced pirates to move on the other side of the gate to catch active pilots. Auto-pilot users can still be killed in the same manner. Overall the number of people falling victim to gate camps has dropped a bit, although it has emboldened more players to risk the travel route. None the less, skilled pirates will still get their prey. means however that people have to worry about a large blob of pirates to do something simple like kill a frigate, rather than just that 1 pirate you had before. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically
Xtro 2 Caldari Pre-nerfed Tactics	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:11:00 - [36] Originally by: PCaBoo As a pirate, I can tell you it hurts. I'm from a small pirate corp and gatecamping is almost impossible now without at least 10 people. Which of course cuts down on your profit margin. Warp to zero protects those leaving, but it also makes it quite dangerous for gatecampers. Most pirates will have a scout on the other side of the gate to see what's worth attacking, what's not, what's a potential threat, etc... but now with warp to zero, anyone can warp to the gate at 0km (including a gank squad) and ruin your day. Most anti-pi's/thrillseekers had instas already, but now anyone can wtz and be a threat. Especially in low-sec while we're under the guns. Even a cruiser with a decent tank can jump in and scramble a lone BS until the sentries take it down. It also makes it tougher to catch people in belts. You might be warping in as they're warping out and now with wtz, you have no chance of running him down trying to warp to wherever. I was against the whole idea, but with the new scan probe system, I was content with new missioner targets. Unfortunately they're nerfing that today. So basically a lot of pirates are starving to death. I know everyone's probably giddy with joy, but just wait til CCP comes after your e-livelyhood. What goes around comes around. Makes being a pirate a joke, no-one is really afraid of you anymore, because your no great threat, my alts even tried being good, and catching ppl in alliance wars, again useless, because everyone warps to station or gate direct, its the same in lowsec. as mentioned alot here, blobbing the gate is the current trend, perhaps its because thats all you can do, unless your lucky enough to have a string of new or dumb people mining in belts. So the profession/career path for a pirate is at least easy to describe. 1) Catch miners that cant watch local properly. 2) Blob gates to catch any old junk that floats past (well worth all that isk your fronting) er and thats it. Xtro 2 - Tactically Insane Tradesman. Insanity, or madness, is a semi-permanent, severe mental disorder typically
Taram Caldar Caldari Acheron Vanguard Armada The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:14:00 - [37] Originally by: PCaBoo As a pirate, I can tell you it hurts. I'm from a small pirate corp and gatecamping is almost impossible now without at least 10 people. Which of course cuts down on your profit margin. Gate camping is not piracy. If you rely on gate camping in lowsec/0.0 for anything other than territory defense for your alliance then you are not a pirate, you are a griefer. Sorry. I have ZERO respect for gate campers. PIRATES... on the other hand... those guys I have oodles of respect for. Those are the guys who use scan probes to hunt down prey in lowsec and/or 0.0. Folks hiding in 'safe' spots or folks ratting or folks running missions. REAL pirates never needed a gate camp to cut a profit and were the REAL threat in lowsec. Gate campers were always easy to avoid: Just go around in a shuttle and make yourself instas for your trips to that area. Anyone with more than a couple month's experience in the game was pretty immune to them. So all Gate campers were doing was ganking clueless noobs or even more clueless people who just didn't bother to get instas. 0.0 Gatecamps are typically done for defense out of necessity. Lowsec gate camps by wannabe "pirates" are just deliberate gankfests on players who can't defend themselves... usually newbies. So... I'm sorry... cry me a river. Go hunt the belts or scan out the mission runners or learn to wardec. Or, hey, as you said, get a group of friends (and no, you don't need 10, 2 people CAN very effectively camp a gate with the right setup... a few well known pirates have even posted how) and camp a gate on the jump-in side using various tactics. lowsec is still just as dangerous as before. If anything the Revelations patch should have made life better for real pirates. The wannabe's got a hard knock but I don't have any sympathy for them anyway. Real Pirates are probably faring much better because their target #'s have gone up.
Taizu Lilith Minmatar Counterglow Kancho Unlimited	Posted - 2006.12.14 19:33:00 - [38] Originally by: PCaBoo Originally by: DarkMatter Edited by: DarkMatter on 13/12/2006 11:42:17 Quote: So basically a lot of pirates are starving to death. This game has always had too many pirates, CCP has finally taken the steps neccessary to weed out the ones who can't hack it... There has always been too many pirates & too few targets, hopefully this will change with today's patch... This game has come a long way, and finally CCP has realized that 50% of your playerbase cannot be pirates, it just doesn't work... What the players do who want to be pirates but can't hack it and starve to death? dunno, have to find a new EVE career I guess... Maybe faction war, getting involved in that will help lower the pirate numbers even further... I think you're grouping a few too many people into the 'pirate' category. There are many who will attack anyone to get a kill and then there are pirates who do it as a profession. I have no qualms with being called a gankbear or whatnot (I do attack people that I have no intention of ransoming or looting out of boredom), I have no problems with them changing things to make everyone's gameplay better, but I do have problems with them singling out a certain group of players just to appease the few who do not share in our opinions and choice of play style. They say adapt or die, but like the ice-age, sometimes even the strong cannot survive. I'm sure everyone believes that if all the pirates disappeared, that Eve would become some sort of utopian garden of eden or something. I think it would diminish the game immensely. I can tell you that some pirates do just fine. I was podded by Ginger Magician 3 times last week, even when stabbed up and clicking as fast as possible.

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