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Lady Winter
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:35:00 -
[1]
I am not one too swing around the nerf broomstick but there is a slight issue that is beging too trend out; that is battleships flying around at 4k/s - I personally can see many ways this is going to start a flame fest but reframe yourself from it please and just follow along here..... If you dont like the idea just dont post.
I dont think developers ever intended for a battleship too be able to outrun mwd frigates or at that be able to pounce on an interceptor in seconds let alone keep up with one..........
Furthermore the fact that stacking penalties are not applying too inertia stabs is a seperate but equally problematic issue that is exagerating this matter.
What I propose is that based on a ships Mass, that inertia stabs get an equally more drastic penalty similar too warp core stabs - as let face it a signature radius hit on a battleship is not gona mean squat when it can go from 0-400km in 10-15 seconds. So yes you would get a mass reduction and inertia reduction but along with the sig radius boost you would also pay a cost in powergrid or cpu -- or better yet targeting range/signature resolution - so for every XXX amount of mass the ship has with an inertia stab fitted you receive an XX% penalty too targeting range/sensor resolution. Since the mass on ships like ceptors, frigs and cruisers are so low just set the mechanics of this such that the penalty is near nothing (1%) on those class ships but when you step into the relam of battleships with markably higher mass the penalty jumps to say 10 or 20%.
I dont know maybe this is not well articulated but it an idea as quite frankly there is no justified reason or concept for a battleship too be moving at 4km/s. Likewise having too fit your group of ships to deal with an enemy going 4km/s in a BS as the consiquence of 1 module seems counter to the whole fitting concept eve provides us - it is an uneven balence caused by 1 module and 1 module alone.
sign this thread if you agree with inertia stabs needing some form of BS class nerf, your not so much signing per my specific solution just that it is a problem.
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Frecator Dementa
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Posted - 2006.12.13 14:41:00 -
[2]
what happened to the old "maximum speed boost amount" that each AB/MWD had ?
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pshepherd
Caldari
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2006.12.13 17:09:00 -
[3]
not signed, if a 4km/s battleship is so 'awesome' adapt, and fit webs 
Besides, being able to ram mining barges at that speed is a lot of fun ^^
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Horatio Nately
Caldari
808 Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.13 17:15:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: pshepherd
not signed, if a 4km/s battleship is so 'awesome' adapt, and fit webs
Besides, being able to ram mining barges at that speed is a lot of fun ^^
omg yes we webbed him and now he's still doing 350+ m/s and what a suprise, he's still boosting out of my web range.
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Letheeth Kayl
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Posted - 2006.12.13 17:24:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Letheeth Kayl on 13/12/2006 17:42:58
Edited by: Letheeth Kayl on 13/12/2006 17:25:17
Originally by: Horatio Nately
omg yes we webbed him and now he's still doing 350+ m/s and what a suprise, he's still boosting out of my web range.
For anything faster than 400m/s (pretty much anything really), you need to use 2 webs because they're not stack nerfed, so 2 fleeting prop webs (90% speed reduction each) reduces a ship to 1% max speed. This means that anything that gets within range of your 2 webbers won't be going much faster than say 50m/s. (speed edited because of an inability to do simple math and understand that 50 is 1% of 5000 . . . stupid amarr academy didn't teach math . . . just shooting and enslaving)
Even with 2 standard webbers, you can acheive 96% speed reduction, meaning your 4km/s bs is only going to chug along at 240m/s (fast for a bs, but still managable).
More importantly, how do you get the BS going 4km/s. I want to revel in the glory of my golden probe, ::cough:: er . . Armageddon going as fast as an interceptor before the nerf bat swings around and beats bs's back into the sensible range.
Quad Li-Fi Booster (BS MWD) in mid, and 7 intertia stabs in low, or 7-8 nanofiber internals (more speed, but less inertia reduction, right?)?
But yes, BS's going that fast does seem like a problem to me, especially because mine can't.
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Cornelia Svlla
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Posted - 2006.12.13 17:29:00 -
[6]
If BS's with a few intertial stabilisers and MWDII can outrun a frig with a full set of inertial stabilisers and MWDII then it's a problem.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2006.12.13 23:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Frecator Dementa
what happened to the old "maximum speed boost amount" that each AB/MWD had ?
Originally by: Letheeth Kayl
More importantly, how do you get the BS going 4km/s
Well, you see, the "max speed boost" on ABs/MWDs isn't a "max speed boost" at all, but rather the speedboost a ship of "proper mass" would have if it used that AB/MWD.
The maximum speedboost is NOT capped, and the only thing fitting an AB does is add roughly 50% to the EXPECTED mass of the ship (see 1MN AB/MWDs adding half a mil tons and having 1.5 mil MN thrust, for instance).
So all you need to do is fill up your BS's lows with as many inertia stabs as you can, thus lowering your total mass to insignificant values, consequently giving you insane percentage speedboosts.
You know, same reason a cruiser with a 100MN AB/MWD travels at an insane max speed but has a lousy acceleration (well, the acceleration part is also linked with "agility" and mass, and inertia stabs help alleviate both issues).
Not sure what the current "space-speed-record" is, but I can bet it's something akin to 40+++ km/sec in a Vagabond full of inertia stabs and running a 100MN sized MWD.
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My skills | Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Tar om
Minmatar
Octavian Vanguard
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.12.13 23:26:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tar om on 13/12/2006 23:26:35
Of course the ship cannot fit damage mods and can't track for sh*t. There are serious downsides to this fitting. You didn'nt mention the most damning accusation against these fittings which is that they allow BS pilots to have fun, and that is clearly against the law.
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
"The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions."
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Tiger Kior
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Posted - 2006.12.13 23:38:00 -
[9]
if you dont have fun in a BS that is not going 4km/s then find a new game as you clearly stuck around up untill now and just want too take advantage of this inbalence as long as possible.
this has nothing too do with ramming barges or fitting double webs -- the bottom line is a battleship should not under any circumstance be moving at this kind of speed, it just defeats the purpose of say interceptors or frigates -- they should ALWAYS be faster than a bs - a bs shouldnt be able too pounce on a ceptor 400km out in 10-15 seconds and pop it with light drones so blindly.
its an inbalence, it needs addressing.
there no semantics about it - nothing too do with your desire to ram barges, or have fun in battleships or any other pirate yarr! yarr! im cool look at me contention
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Aneerin
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Posted - 2006.12.14 07:16:00 -
[10]
I certainly see no problem if you want to have a fast Battleship. It just means that it will take less for somebody else to kill your speed demon when they lock it.
*shrugs*
Everything has a tradeoff. A speed boosting BB will be easy to kill.
:-)
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James Duar
Merch Industrial
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Posted - 2006.12.14 07:37:00 -
[11]
This idea is stupid. Unless this ship is going an insane speed and can't be obliterated by a sniper, a few frigs with webbers etc. then I fail to see the problem.
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Tanaka Nari
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Posted - 2006.12.14 09:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cornelia Svlla
If BS's with a few intertial stabilisers and MWDII can outrun a frig with a full set of inertial stabilisers and MWDII then it's a problem.
What are the highest speeds frigs and BSes can achieve with the current situation (can't log on myself currently)? I agree strongly with Cornelia here.
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Tekumze Wolf
Minmatar
Blueprint Haus
Center for Disease Creation
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Posted - 2006.12.14 11:26:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Tekumze Wolf on 14/12/2006 11:31:09
Originally by: James Duar
This idea is stupid. Unless this ship is going an insane speed and can't be obliterated by a sniper, a few frigs with webbers etc. then I fail to see the problem.
A sniper BS and a couple of frigs... LOL
Here's your scenario
A Dominix doing 4k+ is around somewhere. You take your sniper BS and a couple of webber frigs and go hunting.
You find the Domi and send the frigs after it.
there are two results posible
1) Domi speeds up and the frigs can't follow as it is to fast
2) Domi speeds up and slows down after a while.
Frigs come in and web the Domi.
Sniper tries to get in position
Domi NOS goes to action and drains the frigs while at the same time drones pop them real fast (frigs don't last long against a domi drone wave).
Sniper BS comes in position just to see the frigs pop and is lucky to get 1 or 2 shots in.
Domi warps away OR engages Sniper BS at close range using NOS and drones to kill it. If it doesn't work just warp away.
Domi is never in real trouble if flown properly.
You want to use the raven to "snipe" (would also works close range). Domi doesn't care. It pops the webber frigs and speeds away moving as fast(or faster) as your missiles and is out of range before the first missile ever hits.
Let me know when you find a good counter not involving the same setup (which is not a counter) or a fleet of ships.
1vs1 Domi with speed either can't be touched or it kills you.
Sure speed domi can't kill everything... but what it can't kill it can outrun.
Pretty amazing for using 1 module isn't it 
Inertial stabs are flawed. They should be an active module that uses like 1 energy/sec. The energy cost should go up exponentialy depending on the speed and original mass of the ship being stabilized. I mean you're using a stabilizer then stabilizing a ship at 4k should be a bit more difficult.
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Bobby Atlas
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Posted - 2006.12.14 13:44:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Bobby Atlas on 14/12/2006 13:47:23
I do not think some people realize that a BS going 4km/s will outrun anything nearly and get out of range of your snipers in all of 5-10 seconds, packing light drones it will destroy in seconds any tacklers and becomes a zip-zip-zooooooom fortress of doom. The inert stabs need a nerfing or mass-based nerf so battleships can not exploit the module in such stupid ways...........
Maybe you guys have not noticed but inert stabbed bs's are now flying around everywhere - blowing through gatecamps, bubble camps, popping interceptors, af's and tackler frigs like swiss cheese and making 20 man camps look like a joke cause you cant stop them and cant hit them (acceleration to out of range far too fast).
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Tiger Kior
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Posted - 2006.12.15 12:14:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Tiger Kior on 15/12/2006 12:14:35
*nods*
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Mookuh
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2006.12.15 12:19:00 -
[16]
This discussion is a bit old, but it got some new fueling:
The changes to the Typhoon BS made it an efficient missile user, WITH the ability to bring a full wing of heavy AND medium drones.
The Nanophoon is hence one of the most popular BS designs I've encountered, it can speed around in it's MWD at insane speeds, harass it's enemies from long ranges with cruise missiles and dive in to kill targets of chance easily.
During a war, we faced some highly skilled Nanophoon pilots. We tried a lot of options against them, which all failed.
A Javelin Torp Raven will hurt it, but it will speed out of scrambler range and be gone quickly.
Tackling it with frigates doesn't work because besides the 4 Missile Launchers, it can field a lot of NOS and can NOS most frigates to death in 1-2 cycles. It's drones and Cruise missiles will kill anything save AFs very quickly, and AFs also won't last long.
Tackling with a larger ship doesn't work, because 1st of all, it won't get within webber range, and if it does, and you slap your webbers on it, it's remaining velocity will "skid" it through your 10km webbing range within seconds.
Using EW against them: They're immune against tracking disruption, and if you slap ECM or sensor damps on it, it will just rush out of the EW range and hit from there, forcing the (usually barely tanked) EW ship to leave.
Webber drones are too slow tokeep up with them, and their speed reduction will only be sufficient when you got a full flight of them, and not every BS can field that.
I think the only way to effectively counter them could be a Huginn with top named/faction webifiers. Offcourse, the Huginn could die quickly, so you will also need either logistics support or an ECM ship which can stick to the Huginn and jam the Nanophoon, rendering it unable to attack... in that case, it would need 10 seconds to change to FoF Cruise missiles, whilst it's drones keep attacking...
Additionally, you'll need at least one damage dealer, a BS or a HAC. It's true, the Nanophoon wouldn't last long against some concentrated fire, but we're talking about a minimum of 3 ships here to counter a single Nanophoon.
Now imagine there are 3 Nanophoons...
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Terry 'Mookuh' Hijakosji
CAIN Public Relations |
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