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"Good" job CCP ( tech2 prints)

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Grash Freedom Gallente MAZA Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:37:00 - [1] I logged in to check the new prints and how EvE "evolved", within a matter of hours First thought, Good more prints, better prices for sure, cheap vagas etc Second thought. WTF? they seeded ALL prints, even the worst of the worst prints Oneiros bpo? are you insane??? production cost: 23.6 mils current market price: 23.8-24 mils so the producer, that did good for the community, produced this crap for a print so the market can have the ship, ehile even before the reseed the effort to even sell such ships is not worth it Now the real question I agree with ccp, as a tech 2 producer that prices on some items have gone wild, and even I, knowing that i will LOSE money from invention and the reseed, wanted this change, for the simple reason "If i need less money for tech2 ships/mod, it does not matter if i'll make less" YAY for the new prints, YAY for CCP and their actions on the matter, YA(WTF?) no no yay here BOOOOOOO for not doing research as you should have CCP! you dropped once again out of the sky as you did with bubbles/expanded cargo prints(nice potato) conversion to a totally wrong system that is called lottery to random peeps and not only that! YOU EVEN GAVE prints like Oneiros/ Ammo prints( oh come on! 40 of each already is out there and the profit margin on those is less than mining trit for 10 mins a day / ECMS (lol they profit on those was 20-50k per units when ECMS was uber, imagine what the profit will be now that the modules is useless but good only in 2 ships And 80% of the prints that are out there which are totally not worth even thinking producing We have no oneiros prints, the prints we have as a corp was earned with HARD work and teamwork, and we paying our damn prints, we knew invention was comming, but this reseeding was never there as an option, YOU yourselfs wasted time for invention so long, and now this We wasted our time for this game, we worked to reach the lucky ones, and we paid them now 1.5 year later our work as a team has been wasted We will trash our prints, and go with the flow then, some lucky guys will get our prints from your so fair lottery system! Gongratulations, You heard all those you where unable to get a tech 2 print because they where bored to work for! All those that think all tech2 bpo owners are only lucky and GOD gave them what they have What i will demand later on EVE is one thing, ones the subscriptions start to go down every month, you will have to work visa versa CCP, you will have to remove tech2 prints out of the market. The most simple solution was Seed prints that profit was at least 4-5 times the production cost and not all the rest, every body would have been happy Ps. I am not mad that i will not make as much, i work hard, i am an all arround and have plenty plenty of isks to last for my life time in eve The crazy thing is that instead of supporting teamwork, as you state, your actions shows different! Good luck EVE you will damn sure need it! spelling suck i know :(
Kylania Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:44:00 - [2] Are you angry you didn't get an ISK printing machine for Xmas or that you didn't get a big enough ISK printing machine for Xmas? I can't quite tell exactly what you're ranting about. T2 blueprints are rare, most people will never see one. If you or your corp already have one you've already "won" EVE so you should be happy. Not sad that you haven't gotten a HAC BPO or something silly. Trashing your prints won't do anything to help others, they don't get reseeded automatically as today has shown, selling them would. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| CCG Card Lookup
Moadyb The Raven Warriors	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:44:00 - [3] hard team work? what everyone had 5 research alts? /rolls eyes I can't be happier that they are finally trying to fix the T2 market.
Grash Freedom Gallente MAZA Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:47:00 - [4] Originally by: Moadyb hard team work? what everyone had 5 research alts? /rolls eyes I can't be happier that they are finally trying to fix the T2 market. this is exactly what people think, no mate we mined/ratting/ mission whoring/ tech 1 production/ we did all to gather isks so we can buy tech2 prints We are like you unlucky ones, we paid for our prints!
Eranos	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:50:00 - [5] Well if i remember right this is the "first" reseed so only bpo's that were destroyed/owned by banned player/eaten by the devs/... are being reseeded atm.
pshepherd Caldari Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:50:00 - [6] Originally by: Grash Freedom no mate we mined/ratting/ mission whoring/ tech 1 production/ we did all to gather isks so we can buy tech2 prints We are like you unlucky ones, we paid for our prints! i think luck is the greatest factor in eve, even if your a 3 year old player, you can still not come out on top. I paid for my t2 BPO as well, but it doesn't make a 'huge' amount of money compared to what i can make in 0.0.
Jason Marshall Infinite Innovations Astral Wolves	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:51:00 - [7] So they were reseeded to the lottery pool? in anycase yay for more BPOs but i worry that everyone might be able to afford T2 soon and that would defeat the purpose =\...Accept Hammerhead IIs im tired of paying 12million isk for 5 bloody drones just because i have an addiction to thelittle yellow sticker in the corner of the icon. Tacky lens flares in sigs 4tw!
Grash Freedom Gallente MAZA Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:52:00 - [8] Originally by: pshepherd Originally by: Grash Freedom no mate we mined/ratting/ mission whoring/ tech 1 production/ we did all to gather isks so we can buy tech2 prints We are like you unlucky ones, we paid for our prints! i think luck is the greatest factor in eve, even if your a 3 year old player, you can still not come out on top. I paid for my t2 BPO as well, but it doesn't make a 'huge' amount of money compared to what i can make in 0.0. yeap, as most of tech 2 prints make so little isks, joining an alliance is much better than producing, yeah i agree prices on certain items HACS/some modules is fricking high those items ccp should have looked
oil	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:53:00 - [9] i need to agree with the op. there are t2 items that sell with same profit as t1 items. there was no need to swamp the market with new bpo of those items. instead the should have doubled or tribbled or whatever the nzumber of bpo for items that sell with 500% profit and items that are in constant huge demand.
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:54:00 - [10] Edited by: Twilight Moon on 13/12/2006 16:55:20 I'm failing to see the point of the whine. Seriously, I cant see the point the OP is trying to make. Is he saying he has a BPO and is unhappy that CCP re-seeded another few of that BPO? Sucks to be you. Originally by: oil i need to agree with the op. there are t2 items that sell with same profit as t1 items. there was no need to swamp the market with new bpo of those items. instead the should have doubled or tribbled or whatever the nzumber of bpo for items that sell with 500% profit and items that are in constant huge demand. Why? If you got a crap BPO, then you got a crap BPO. Live with it (If you woke up breathing today, CONGRATULATIONS!, you get another chance!)
Detavi Kade	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:56:00 - [11] For anyone who thinks they got a "worthless" T2 BPO I will be happy to buy them from you for 1 Million ISK each. Therefore you can gain some value from it. Originally by: oveur EVE is primarily a PVP game from the following dev blog
sci0gon Tech 2 Ammo Holdings Limited	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:56:00 - [12] even if the prints dont make much isk it doesnt matter some people in this game actually would like the chance to hold a t2 print. for me that would be great cos it would be like i've actually received something for the time and effort ive put into research and skilling for them. consider it some sort of reward (acheivement) which would be limited compared to the amount of t1 bpos currently out there
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:56:00 - [13] And what would happen then when Kali 2 suddenly makes (hypothetically) Onerios an Uber ship? FTW for the Onerios BPO holders, and shortly after everyone calls for a reseeding of those... No, if they reseed BPO's they have to do it with all of them. Possible exeption Ammo as they actaully did seed more of those for starters. Ok, perhaps they could have split up a bit more, but not much. Either way it would end up unbalanced now or potentially later on. Shortsightedness FTL. Fortunately CCP are a bit wiser than that. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:57:00 - [14] Oneiros bpo might be worth little today, but what if some future buff to logistics ships or logistics in pvp in general makes it worth a ton? It's happened lots of times before, I'd hold onto it even if it's not an uber money maker right now. With the hp buffs the next logical step is to buff the logistics aspect of pvp, if they want longer and more strategic fights. Think ahead.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:57:00 - [15] More T2 ammo prints dreams Exactly what was needed - as a good part of the BPO owners did not even bother building the stuff any longer because there's hardly any market for it. I think I would like to have a Scimitar BPO, just for giggles. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Attiladehun Gallente Contraband Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:57:00 - [16] I can understand that some T2 bpo's aren't that profitable and adding more of those bpo wouldn't really change much to the market. But bare in mind, that ccp are also adding bpo's to the number of people that are now ingame. Where as it used to be 10k people it is now 30k people, i'm glad they finally seeded more bpo's according to the number of people. But still better more bpo's (even if some are stupid) then none i would say
Montaire Lacedaemon. Sparta Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.13 16:59:00 - [17] Many people make billions off their Skiff prints - the game changed, the market changes and their value changed. I expect the Oneiros and the Basilisk to get better with time. People will realise that a 5 man gank squad is much better as a 4 man gank squad + 2 Logistics ship. You should have seen the 3 Drake + Basilisk gang I was in a few nights ago. We rocked.
BurnHard	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:00:00 - [18] If the item isn't making enough profit for you, sell it to someone who wants it. If nobody wants it, trash it and let someone else get it in the lottery next time around. Those are your options. CCP are simply making sure the number of BPO's in game reflects the number of players in game. It is nothing to do with artificially increasing or reducing the value of your end-product. Number of blueprints ∝ Player count
booh	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Tachy More T2 ammo prints dreams Exactly what was needed - as a good part of the BPO owners did not even bother building the stuff any longer because there's hardly any market for it. Just my thoughts. I completely support the reseeding of Vagabond, Cerberus, Covert Ops Device, 1mn mwd II and such BPOs. But BPOs as 50mm T2 armor plate, T2 ammo BPOs, small smartbomb t2 bpos... this is just a bad joke.
Sam442	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:02:00 - [20] Can I have your stuff?
Grash Freedom Gallente MAZA Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:03:00 - [21] Originally by: Twilight Moon I'm failing to see the point of the whine. Seriously, I cant see the point the OP is trying to make. Is he saying he has a BPO and is unhappy that CCP re-seeded another few of that BPO? Sucks to be you. how would you feel, if some day ccp changed your way of making isks? Ratting? they can always change the spawn rate and bountys on those PVPing? Well this is gone bad already, most hard core pvpers make isks from loot, guess what the loot will worht in a couple of months! Mission running? Same as ratting, if they will change bountys tech1 production? well with cheap tech2 tech 1 will go down for sure, all those tech 1 holders that waste billions on tech 1 prints well to bad for you, your prints have just degraded in value, you whined for tech 2 items, i ll see you whine for your prints that make nada cosmos missions? well its not as you can run those for ever, good isks but only ones pirating? no good price on tech 2 loot not even worth taking mining? well mining is the only thing that cannot be tampered easy, minerals are always in need in eve cause of pvp=pew pew ships= demand for minerals but pvp can always get harder so its not impossible to see in the near future trit for 0.5 isks Think of all the ways you can make isks, CCP can always mess up with YOUR way
Mack Dorgeans Camelot Innovations	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:03:00 - [22] I have to say, I build the Oneiros, and it's not that bad a print considering what it is and the demand. Production cost is more like 15-20 mil if you know what you're doing, though even I don't build them 24/7, but instead do BPCs between build batches. Still, I tend to agree with your major point, that a lot of marginal T2 stuff will now have way more supply than demand, and thus won't be worth building. My Nemesis print was already like that before more were about to be added. Ammo BPOs in particular will probably be way too plentiful, and demand doesn't really meet supply as it is. Oh well. I also think materials demand is going to increase so much that even if there's more competition among producers, market prices won't change much for the top T2 items. CCP should have increased materials supply along with flooding us with more T2 BPOs, so prices could come down and materials suppliers could still enjoy the extra business.
Leon 026 Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:04:00 - [23] Hold on a second here. You're saying you slaved away to buy a t2 BPO (thinking it was an isk printing machine) and got the Oneiros BPO (which was never an isk printing machine to begin with), and you're now upset because your own Oneiros BPO that you had bought, will be a few million less profitable? Uh... T2 equipment are speciality equipment, they're not supposed to be your IWINEVE isk printing machine. The fact that some of them are and fluctuate constantly depends on demand and on Flavor of the Month ships/setups. The Oneiros was never a massively in-demand ship, never will be. Tbh, the only thing I see in this thread is complaining that your own little BPO might be affected, when it most likely wont. ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings
Ignis Penitus Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:04:00 - [24] Imagine you're new to the game and created a character and intended to pursue a manufacturing career. You don't have any research points yet, so you'll be left out of the lottery all together. If you do the work to get a T2 BPO, then you should get one. Period. There should also be materials research slots available. Base it on agent or corp standing to get a reserved slot, or come up with something else. Just make them available.
Malcanis	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:04:00 - [25] "now 1.5 year later our work as a team has been wasted" I realise that it's not my place to tell you what to do with your stuff, but I would have been making use of those during that 1.5 year interval, rather than let them be simply 'wasted'. Hindsight is always 20:20, I know...
Zaribeth Xoth Inc Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:04:00 - [26] This may sound like a stupid question. But did they "add" the same ammount of BPO's currently ingame to the pool or did they take all the BPO's ingame and re-seed them ? This is something i have wanted to know for some time. -------FIX-------
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Tachy More T2 ammo prints dreams Exactly what was needed - as a good part of the BPO owners did not even bother building the stuff any longer because there's hardly any market for it. QFT... stupid IMO Why not seed a few more Vagabond BPOs and a few less ammo BPOs? -[23] Member- Awesome new space games site, from the editor of E-ON!
Malena Perpetual Dawn	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:05:00 - [28] Edited by: Malena on 13/12/2006 17:09:39 Originally by: Grash Freedom Originally by: Moadyb hard team work? what everyone had 5 research alts? /rolls eyes I can't be happier that they are finally trying to fix the T2 market. this is exactly what people think, no mate we mined/ratting/ mission whoring/ tech 1 production/ we did all to gather isks so we can buy tech2 prints We are like you unlucky ones, we paid for our prints! So just out of curiousity, did you and your corpies become a tighter, more efficient group as this process went along? Did you answer calls for help at a moment's notice, help each other get through the lower level mission grind, haul for each other, have one or two folks with great refining or production skills produce items to help you along with your goal? I can understand that you are upset about the loss of potential...but I am guessing you didn't buy an unresearched bpo when you spent the cash on the t2 prints. And if you spent that much time getting the cash, surely someone in your corp went "hey, is this really going to be profitable, and for how long?" So in the meantime you can reduce your profit margin a bit, gain more cash while others research their bpos or have to produce at low ME values and thus higher end cost, and look for new areas to market your items. The trouble with t2 bpos is that people think they are an ISK machine...you still have to produce them, and find the place to sell them. I think the thing most people are upset about it is that they don't get to just produce and have people come to them to get their product now...they actually have to gasp go out and get customers. edit: I just want to say that I agree with the fact that we don't need more ammo bpos until the requirements themselves are dropped so that there is a margin of profitability. That aside, there is always the fact that you can turn down the offer, you don't HAVE to take the bpo. You can save your RP for later, or you can turn them into datacores and try invention. Oh, and can we combine all these into one thread?
Rei Toai Faaip De Oiad	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:06:00 - [29] Originally by: Tachy More T2 ammo prints dreams Exactly what was needed - as a good part of the BPO owners did not even bother building the stuff any longer because there's hardly any market for it. I think I would like to have a Scimitar BPO, just for giggles. so why should those build it now? i think the reseeding will effect the T2 market the following: high-demand t2 items will become affordable for a reasonable price - more supply for the same high demand. no-/low-demand t2 items will still cost the same - see the above example, why bother with t2 production if he gets only t1 margins. medium-demand t2 items - will likely be screwed - to much supply for to less demand. Originally by: sci0gon even if the prints dont make much isk it doesnt matter some people in this game actually would like the chance to hold a t2 print. for me that would be great cos it would be like i've actually received something for the time and effort ive put into research and skilling for them. consider it some sort of reward (acheivement) which would be limited compared to the amount of t1 bpos currently out there so the effort that people put into the game to BUY a t2 BPO is now less worth than the effort you put into your r&d agent to be lucky in the lottery? __________________________________ I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to talk about it I don't want to know.
Grash Freedom Gallente MAZA Solutions	Posted - 2006.12.13 17:08:00 - [30] Originally by: Sam442 Can I have your stuff? Have you read anywhere that i am leaving? :P I am not the usual WOW player that when the whine comes says I QUIT EVE YOUR GAME SUCKS EVE is a second life, and a game that gave me friends that will be forever, i will never give up on eve that easy :) CCP you have made a great game, but imo you have to think harder on some occasions

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