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KrapYl
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Posted - 2003.11.23 22:32:00 -
[31]
it really should have the stacking rules ~ala~ mods and others enhancers... so the third is near useless bonuswise...
stacking rules... i think its called :D
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.23 22:58:00 -
[32]
Webifiers need to work on the non-MWD speed of the vessel. It seems like it'll be the only solution to satisfy the people that want to go faster to from Point A to Point B. And the people that want to be able to stop people in their tracks.
So a person could have 2 MWD and travel at 20km/s, as long as they're not hindered by a webifying module.
But if someone targets a webifying module at their ship, then it sets their speed to (base speed + skill modifier + injectors + afterburners) - webifier speed modifier.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Miri Tirzan
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Posted - 2003.11.23 23:00:00 -
[33]
Leave MWD the way they are.
However, lets see if I can understand this topic from the carebear pirate perspective.
 Quote:
This is a PvP game and anyone that does not want to fight needs to leave the game.
Hi I am a pirate and dont want anyone getting away from me an my pals.
Lets nerf everything in high sec space to make people come out where we can exploit bad game mechanics to kill them and then nerf anything that could let them run from a fight.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.11.23 23:04:00 -
[34]
Quote:
Leave MWD the way they are.
However, lets see if I can understand this topic from the carebear pirate perspective.
And doom yourself to destruction.
I've never seen a group of people so eager to load the gun, put the gun to their own head and scream "Dare me to pull the trigger!".
If they can't stop you, they'll just shoot you.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.11.24 02:01:00 -
[35]
My only point is it can't be "too easy" to stop people in their tracks.
If someone makes the conscious decision to configure their ship to "escape" from traps then they should have the chance to be successful. There should also be a chance that they are unsuccessful.
Therefore, leaving MWDs the way they are is not an option. With 2 or more, it's almost impossible not to get away.
However, if they are nerfed, or if the affect webifiers have on them is adjusted, it must be done so with balance in mind. People should be able to escape from a trap if they are alert and choose to do so. If webifiers drag them to 20 m/s regardless of burners fitted, there's not much chance of that happening.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
NeoMorph
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Posted - 2003.11.24 02:07:00 -
[36]
Edited by: NeoMorph on 24/11/2003 02:08:43
Well I can tell you that if they introduce any stacking nerf for MWDs I wont be arsed doing boring agent missions any more. Using 2 MWDs to speed up travel makes it just about bearable.
I still think that needing to "rearange reality" because mr piwate wanna cwy because he cant force everyone to stick around and fight is a blatent unbalance. This game isn't ALL about pvp combat. It's about having multiple options and retreat or "hotting" a transport ship for blockade running doesnt mean you are cheating.
Mwd's have been nerfed enough... introduce mods to counteract like I said earlier and not keep re-writing the universe just because it isn't perfect for one type of player for god's sake. The reason Eve is so messed up is because the devs don't balance gently... they tend to overbalance only to have to cut it back at a later date.
People this is a "live" game now, we are not in beta testing balancing phase anymore. Let's see tech introduced to help fix it. Can you imagine Mr H-i-t-l-e-r (wtf is up with this damn censor  ) in WWII saying "OMG OMG - Spitfires are too good... they need nerfing so I can shoot them down more easily". What happened really? The Germans developed tech to try and help tip the balance back. CCP should do the same thing.
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<Stavros> the first motor bike i ever rode
<Stavros> was a honda gold wing
<Ak-Gara> hah
<Stavros> |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.11.24 02:19:00 -
[37]
I have to agree with Neomorph here. A player who chooses specifically to outfit a ship for "escape" and is alert and pays attention to the situation ought to be able to do just that. It can't be possible to trap every player regardless of ship configuration.
Nerfing MWDs just because they can be used to escape is kind of silly.
However, I do feel that equipping your ship for "escape" should mean "stay and fight" is not an attractive option. Increasing the fitting needs of MWDs might help ensure that a player using them to escape from certain situations is also unable to equip for combat, or mining.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Skillz
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Posted - 2003.11.24 02:53:00 -
[38]
Micro warp drives needs nerfing!
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 03:40:00 -
[39]
MWD shouldn¦t be nerfed, what they need is changes. First of all... besides Drones they are the No.1 reason why frigates are essentially useless. They kill the need for small fast ships because nobody wants small fast ships when they can have big fast ships. Additionally they make it too easy to escape. I mean... yes you should be able to escape when fitting for it but the chances for success at escaping shouldn¦t be at freaking 1000% 
So what I¦d like to see is:
- Only one MWD per ship
- Fitting requirements for MWDs drastically descreased so frigates are able to use them.
- Class based speed boni. Frigates operate MWDs at 100% efficiency, getting the full speedbonus. Cruisers get 60% efficiency. Battleships get 25%. Indies shouldn¦t be able to fit MWD at all.
- Adjusting MWD speed boni so frigates won¦t become uber-fast.
- Webs should affect the base speed of a ship, just like MWDs do.
After these changes you can basically get rid of the penalties for MWDs or at least decrease the penalty to what Josh suggested. You end up with a much more balanced speedboost system.
Let¦s face it... battleships being faster than frigates is ridicoulous. Battleships running away from battles or traps though they¦re webbed with multiple MWDs is ridiculous. People escaping so freaking easily by MWDing out of range is ridiculous.
MWD are mainly used to cut down traveltimes and to run away.
The only fighters really in need for MWDs are blaster gunships. Everything else is either someone wanting to travel fast or someone using it for coward tactics.
I believe that anyone who wants to travel really fast should have to use a frigate or a cruiser, not the biggest freaking behemoth the game currently offers.
Battleships should never be faster than cruisers, cruiser should never be faster than frigs. Simple as that.
Now flame all you want. Initial post asked for opinions, here it is 
Mai's Idealog |
Jake Pliskin
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Posted - 2003.11.24 04:05:00 -
[40]
should be ship specific.
ie, you should not be able to fit MWD's to every ship in the game.
I think the role of a fast scout ship has a big part to play in the future of Eve.
Scout - Very Fast and Very Agile, but hardly any armour and very low fire power
I know we have fast shuttles that can act as scouts right now, but i'm talking a scout ship, scout specific skills, scout specific modules and so forth.
Exploration is supposed to be another valid career choice in Eve
And no, we can't have battleships zipping around like roadrunner on steroids
Points:
Not just race specific skills, but ship specific skills and modules
Would make ships much more unique
Agrees with only allowing one MWD to be fitted at any one time |
Estarriol
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Posted - 2003.11.24 08:41:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Let¦s face it... battleships being faster than frigates is ridicoulous.
...
Battleships should never be faster than cruisers, cruiser should never be faster than frigs. Simple as that.
Out of curiosity, why do you feel so strongly that larger ships should be slower than smaller ones?
At least in naval history, it was in fact the larger ships which had the advantage in speed.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 08:46:00 -
[42]
"Webs should affect the base speed of a ship, just like MWDs do."
Base Speed: 150m/s
MWD: 700% (8*)
150*8 = 1200 m/s with MWD effect first
Webbed: 0.25*1200 = 300 m/s
0.25*150 = 37,5 m/s with web effect first
MWD: 37.5*8 = 300m/s
Explain again please. 
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2003.11.24 09:14:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 24/11/2003 09:26:49
"My opinion is that the shield penalty for MWD is too large and should be adjusted to 25% in line with the capacitor penalty."
Shield penalty is fine. Cap penalty is fine as well.
When you can rush and kill an Apoc, fitted for range or no counter close range measures with a Domi, fitted for close range, while suffering minimal or sometimes no armor damage and have enough cap reserve to MWD away after the kill, for whatever reasons, then everything seems to be working fine.
Though orbit initation mechanics need to be looked at, simply approaching or selecting orbit distance and hitting the mwd can get you killed fast.
As for those who use 2 MWDs: hrumpf pointless. Pointless for PvP and pointless for Blockade running. 1 MWD and one AB is more than enough for 99% of the time. As for pirates complaining they can't stop them... well they don't stand a chance of fighting you either so...
The problems lie more with the counter modules or lack of such. Better effect of the Webifier? Drive Destabilizer module that prevents operation of MWD and can be countered with Warp Core Stabs? Game Mechanics change? Up to the devs.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Jexter
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Posted - 2003.11.24 09:36:00 -
[44]
Of course every pilot should have a chance to get away. Total invulnerability is another thing.
Currently a pilot with 2-3 MWDs who is paying attention is untouchable, which is obviously a design issue.
Only one MWD per ship would be a good solution. The real issue however are (as with most of the combat issues) the scene loading lag and the immunity timers.
Regards,
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Sphalerite
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:29:00 -
[45]
The MWD as it currently is, is the most unbalanced module in EVE.
They've turned frigates into the slowest of all ships, and battleships into the fastest. They're a major contributor to PvP in EVE being either lag ganking or consensual combat.
I'd like to see MWDs be class based modules, and have their fitting requirements adjusted to something like 250 CPU and 2500 Power for battleships, and be proportionately large for cruisers and frigates.
This way, people can still get their ships up to insane speeds, but they have to pay for it in a way other than the unique shield and cap hits.
Adding 20k and 40k webs would also help. bump up their fitting reqs and cap use to compensate.
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von Steinroehder
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:46:00 -
[46]
Well, at least one forum member already posted about the problems blaster gunships are having right now... for a facehugger style setup, the MWD remains absolutely necessary if you want to have any chance of closing in quickly enough. Remember folks, we're talking 7 kilometers optimal here... after the hybrid boost, which is yet to come. With a close combat loadout you are bringing yourself into trouble willingly, you operate in web/scramble range, and you cut your shields and cap significantly with your MWD.
Nerf it more? No. No, really.
1 MWD max? No problem.
Changes I would like to see? Yeah... let the named ones have less penalty
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Sphalerite
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Posted - 2003.11.24 10:50:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Out of curiosity, why do you feel so strongly that larger ships should be slower than smaller ones?
At least in naval history, it was in fact the larger ships which had the advantage in speed.
1939 PT 9
Length: 70-feet; Beam 19-feet 11-inches; weight 40 tons; speed 45Kts
U.S. Navy DD445 Fletcher
The ships displaced 2,050 tons and had an overall length of 376' 6". Fletcher class destroyers were powered by twin 30,000hp turbines which gave a top speed of 35 knots
USS Wisconsin "Wisky" (BB64)Length: 887 feet 8in (270.6m); Beam: 108 feet 4in (33m)Max. Speed: 33 knots
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.11.24 11:07:00 -
[48]
Yes, please, nerf the MWDs EVEN more, so this game, that is already falling apart from boredom, will end up quicker.
Guys, look around!! EVE players chose to fit MWDs, EVEN with ALL the restrictions and risk involved just to get from point A to B faster, because without it, you would loose countless minutes traveling!
This game won't be a success until CCP finds out that we are looking for enjoyment.
I remember perfectly that WHEN MWDs were nerfed, they were because ppl were too fast IN CRUISERS, in a time that battleships didn't exist yet, using them to escape. If I remember correctly, that was a time where people didn't even use ECM because most players used to find it useless.
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Estarriol
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Posted - 2003.11.24 15:53:00 -
[49]
Sphalerite, I was referring in general to ships of naval history, which is a much older subject than the history of motor-watercraft.
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Negotiator
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Posted - 2003.11.24 16:43:00 -
[50]
ok ill explain why people, including me, want frigs to be faster. because right now pvp is all about having the biggest ship with the biggest guns... there very little tactics involved when a tempest pops a blackbird with 1 volley...i want to see more diversity in PvP...
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Raukorya
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Posted - 2003.11.24 16:45:00 -
[51]
My MWD is bugged: It only takes away maybe 10-15% of my cap, and doesn't touch my shields 
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If there is a such thing as too much power, i have yet to discover it. |
Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.11.24 17:22:00 -
[52]
Quote:
My MWD is bugged: It only takes away maybe 10-15% of my cap, and doesn't touch my shields
I hope you reported it as a bug, otherwise you could be labeled as an exploiter you know.
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ZzeusS
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Posted - 2003.11.24 17:39:00 -
[53]
It should ALWAYS be someone's choice to escape and not fight, if they so wish. Anything else is just pure griefing.
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Sphalerite
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Posted - 2003.11.24 19:48:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Sphalerite, I was referring in general to ships of naval history, which is a much older subject than the history of motor-watercraft.
True, but as all of the ships in EVE are running under their own power and firing off missiles and lasers, it seems fitting to use more modern ships as a reference point.
Ultimately though, the smaller ships need to be faster because otherwise they have no advantage at all and are just stepping stones to battleships. Balance is what's needed, RL examples be damned.
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Sphalerite
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Posted - 2003.11.24 20:27:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Sphalerite on 24/11/2003 20:28:39
Quote:
It should ALWAYS be someone's choice to escape and not fight, if they so wish. Anything else is just pure griefing.
Its ideas like this that cause the griefing in this game. The way the mechanics of EVE work right now, the only people who get into combat they don't want to be in are:
1. The AFK.
2. The lag ganked.
3. People who think their ship can do things that they can't.
Other than them, anybody can and will run away. This would seem to be a victory for our hauler/miner/whatever who wants the run of the galaxy unescorted, until you realize that if you don't care who you kill, its much easier to set up #2 and pop whoever drops in on you, then run away when things get tight.
Every time combat is made easier to get away from, it has almost no effect on the pirates, and leaves those of us hunting them with even less to work with.
Sorry to get off the subject at hand. back to MWDs.
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McWatt
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Posted - 2003.11.24 21:01:00 -
[56]
only way to move in combat:
MWD.
it s a joke.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.11.24 21:04:00 -
[57]
Since virtually everyone uses an MWD in battle, shouldn't we just get rid of the penalties altogether and allow only one to be equipped?
As a Caldari pilot, I'd love actually having a decent advantage from my Scorpion's shield bonus and natural race advantage.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
McWatt
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Posted - 2003.11.24 21:16:00 -
[58]
Edited by: McWatt on 24/11/2003 21:18:04
Quote:
Since virtually everyone uses an MWD in battle, shouldn't we just get rid of the penalties altogether and allow only one to be equipped?
As a Caldari pilot, I'd love actually having a decent advantage from my Scorpion's shield bonus and natural race advantage.
only prob is with frigate being slowest (and most useless) shipclass in game.
real problem is: same module for each shipclass. it simply doesn t work (in most cases).
actually i could live with MWD being an universal feature on each ship (like the scanner), trading speed for cap/shield.
wouldn t combat be more fun if we had several things to click and activate during it, kind of having some thinking involved or,  tactics?
(would of course require cap bug to be fixed and wouldn t change JIC and the general difficulties in combat. ETA: NEXT chrismas?)
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Ordo Abchao
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Posted - 2003.11.24 21:53:00 -
[59]
Quote:
ok ill explain why people, including me, want frigs to be faster. because right now pvp is all about having the biggest ship with the biggest guns... there very little tactics involved when a tempest pops a blackbird with 1 volley...i want to see more diversity in PvP...
I'd have to say this is the one thing i've agreed with in this thread, we need more diverse fighting styles, not just who can do the most damage, high speed combat, to name one should be totaly viable.
Order out of Chaos |
Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.11.24 22:07:00 -
[60]
Quote:
Its ideas like this that cause the griefing in this game. The way the mechanics of EVE work right now, the only people who get into combat they don't want to be in are:
1. The AFK.
2. The lag ganked.
3. People who think their ship can do things that they can't.
Other than them, anybody can and will run away.
Which is as it should be. PvP's supposed to be optional here.
It'll change when player-owned fixtures come in; people will have to fight to defend what is theirs, or lose it. At the moment, nobody owns anything, so ther's no reason to stand and fight anywhere.
_______
"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
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