EVE Search - As much as it pains me, L4s need to be adjusted (again)

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Missions & Complexes

As much as it pains me, L4s need to be adjusted (again)

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Nukeitall Nukeitall Coterie	Posted - 2006.12.15 23:41:00 - [1] (Paces around for a few seconds, then stops) Alright, what you are about to read may not go over well with many people here. In fact you might not even like to read what is coming, but at least hear me out. I'm not even going to argue that L4 missions are 'for newbs' and 'are 2easy' because I understand they're not all the time. I'm not going to argue that all L4 agents must be moved to 0.0 because I know that is both unfair and unwise. I am going to argue that the rest of empire sets a precedent that must be followed. (I will ignore low security empire almost entirely because frankly it's kind of a joke) Currently there exists a handful of ways to make money in .05+ security (AKA Empire) - mining, missions, trading, manufacture, NPCing and assorted niche professions I shall not mention here. Let's break them down a little more. Mining can net you a few million an hour even with the best asteroids. This is provided all the asteroids have yet to be stripped down by macro barge gangs. Trading can net you a good amount of cash, but the income is sporadic and there is much predation - you could just as easily end up with nothing. Like an ecosystem the market only supports so many predators. Manufacture is somewhat limited due to market fluxes and rarity of T2 BPOs. Also throw in competition that sells below mineral price and it ends up as inefficient. (I could go on about invention, but frankly I don't need to) NPCing is slow with only frigates and the occasional faction spawn available. 'cute' is the best word to use in my opinion. Even low security empire is a joke in this regard. Which leads us to our topic proper. Level 4 missions. They are 'insane' compared to everything else in empire and must be brought in line with everything else to correct the current risk versus reward system. Why? A good question. As I mentioned previously, precedent is the answer. Everything else in empire is inefficient at points or not very effective. L4 missions are the exception. This is not a brag. This is a statement. In L4s, I can net 8000 loyalty points in one mission that takes anywhere from a half hour to an hour and a half. Plus reward and bounties. (20M+) Throw in salvage and loot if you give me an extra 10-20 minutes. (An additional 10-20M+, varying) That's just for starters. And I'm being somewhat pessimistic about the rewards. If you really want to be technical, throw in important missions. Now I get implants and additional cash rewards. (though the implant yield lately has been reduced) As you can see this destroys all the competition in empire. utterly. totally. nothing comes close. Even 0.0 has a fight on it's hands - even then you have to defend space or hide. You also lose ships in defense or offense. Income gets sketchy sometimes. --------- You might be wondering who this moron is. I'm a mission runner like many of the folks here. I do missions much of the day. I enjoy them (even if they can get boring) - but I also understand that they need to be brought in line with the rest of empire. My solution is simple - merely reduce the quality of all agents in empire and increase the amount of cruisers...again. Oh, and thank you for reading. Enduring my overuse of commas is no easy task! I am willing to hear counter arguments of course - and I also accept that I could be entirely wrong if someone brings me some more concrete numbers. But from where I stand currently L4s need to be adjusted again. --------- >>Disclaimer: Anything Nukeitall says is not to be taken seriously. Mostly.
BustyBounty Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:05:00 - [2] doubt anyone will agree with you here even if it does make sense, they probably want arknor roids in missions for christmas ------------------------------------------ My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance I belong to.
Ander Zeiss Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2006.12.16 00:22:00 - [3] I just started doing level 4 missions last week, so please excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject. Could you please elaborate how much isk I make per hour is relevant to anyone but me? Does my bank account's size have some bearing on your gameplay? Obviously it can't be too much of a problem as many people still mine, still rat, still trade and still manufacture goods even though there is a goldmine to be made in mission running.
Sobach Gallente Fourth Circle	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Nukeitall This is not a brag. This is a statement. In L4s, I can net 8000 loyalty points in one mission that takes anywhere from a half hour to an hour and a half. Plus reward and bounties. (20M+) Throw in salvage and loot if you give me an extra 10-20 minutes. (An additional 10-20M+, varying) That's just for starters. And I'm being somewhat pessimistic about the rewards. I certainly don't recall getting that much when I was running lv.4s in high-sec :/ I'm running lv.4s now out of a 0.2, and my LP per combat mission runs anywhere from 6k to high 9k, that's with all relevant connection skills trained to lv.3, which gives me a 30% boost in LP. I don't see how you can get 8k in high-sec, unless it's a 0.5 and you have the connection skills trained to lv.5 :/ as for reward, most of my missions these days give anywhere from 3-5 mil total for the reward+time bonus, w/ Negotiation @ lv.3 Again, this is at a 0.2, in high sec the numbers would be much lower. I don't really keep track of the npc bounties, but your number seems to be on the high end as well. As for the loot.... I don't know about you, but my mission loot for the past couple months has been laughable at best, almost pretty much consist entirely of reprocessing materials :( ultimately, you have to look at it the other way as well. You say that lv.4 mission is much better than many other options in high-sec empire space for many players (especially newer players), another way of putting it would be that there's no other practical alternative for most high-sec players to earn any decent income. So what do you supposed them do? grind lv.3s or a nerfed lv.4s for weeks or months to afford their ship? unlikely; move to low or null sec? goodluck with forcing that onto people who don't want to.
Altanna Ati	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:38:00 - [5] Yea but you aren't looking at risk v reward. Level IVs are the only way you can die in empire out of everything you've list. Now not ALL lvl IVs, but WC and the bonus stages of the Extravaganza come to mind. Now maybe not with 20-30mil SP and a CNR, but with 5-10mil SP and a non-faction bs certainly. The problem is that some lvl IVs are a snooze-fest, and some actually make you pay attention. The ones that make you pay attention are "hard" because of tackling NPCs and simply a lot of DPS per linked group.
Nukeitall Nukeitall Coterie	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:46:00 - [6] Originally by: Ander Zeiss I just started doing level 4 missions last week, so please excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject. Could you please elaborate how much isk I make per hour is relevant to anyone but me? Does my bank account's size have some bearing on your gameplay? Obviously it can't be too much of a problem as many people still mine, still rat, still trade and still manufacture goods even though there is a goldmine to be made in mission running. A fair point, but you must realize that people "eek" it out in 0.0 for far less then we all gain from the current state of L4s. It doesn't directly effect them - perhaps, but the integrity of the game gets compromised by us having this boon which shouldn't be in the first place. Originally by: Sobach ultimately, you have to look at it the other way as well. You say that lv.4 mission is much better than many other options in high-sec empire space for many players (especially newer players), another way of putting it would be that there's no other practical alternative for most high-sec players to earn any decent income. So what do you supposed them do? grind lv.3s or a nerfed lv.4s for weeks or months to afford their ship? unlikely; move to low or null sec? goodluck with forcing that onto people who don't want to. Removing them entirely was never my plan. Just reduce the rewards again to bring them more in line with empire. 0.0 was never supposed to be inferior to L4 missions in empire. It wouldn't force people to 0.0, granted, it would just be incentive. Forcing them would be removing L4 agents from high security entirely. Which is both excessive and foolish. And perhaps I was being overkill with the bounties and loot, perhaps 70% of my original estimate would have been correct. My claim on LPs was spot on, however. I also admit that the lack of effective alternatives in empire is a good counterpoint. (besides multi-barge parties from one computer of course) --------- >>Disclaimer: Anything Nukeitall says is not to be taken seriously. Mostly.
BustyBounty Caldari Vengeance of the Fallen Imperium Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:53:00 - [7] i remember a couple of the harder l4 missions giving 20-30mil in bountys but i havent done them in probably 6months. they should just do it so mission rats in 0.5+ dont drop any loot or salvage at all then people have a reason to belt rat or goto 0.0 as it is now ratting in 0.0 isnt really any better than missions apart from you have a small chance of a faction or officer ship but theres no garuntee they will drop anything but named loot ------------------------------------------ My opinions are my own and not that of the alliance I belong to.
Protunia Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:55:00 - [8] far as i am concerned level 4 courier missions have been nerfed to the extreme. My Character Stats
Nukeitall Nukeitall Coterie	Posted - 2006.12.16 02:55:00 - [9] Originally by: Altanna Ati Yea but you aren't looking at risk v reward. Level IVs are the only way you can die in empire out of everything you've list. Now not ALL lvl IVs, but WC and the bonus stages of the Extravaganza come to mind. Now maybe not with 20-30mil SP and a CNR, but with 5-10mil SP and a non-faction bs certainly. The problem is that some lvl IVs are a snooze-fest, and some actually make you pay attention. The ones that make you pay attention are "hard" because of tackling NPCs and simply a lot of DPS per linked group. Risk versus reward is interesting because 0.0 has a dynamic thinking enemy that is both ruthless and cunning, as well as prolific. Level 4s do not have such an enemy. And while you can lose ships, it is (let's face it) due to poor mechanics rather then an intelligent enemy. I have lost ships on missions, but it was always due to mechanics rather then my failures as a pilot. I mean, pop drones and the whole spawn kills you? who's idea was that? --------- >>Disclaimer: Anything Nukeitall says is not to be taken seriously. Mostly.
Altanna Ati	Posted - 2006.12.16 03:11:00 - [10] Edited by: Altanna Ati on 16/12/2006 03:12:22 Originally by: Nukeitall Risk versus reward is interesting because 0.0 has a dynamic thinking enemy that is both ruthless and cunning, as well as prolific. Level 4s do not have such an enemy. And while you can lose ships, it is (let's face it) due to poor mechanics rather then an intelligent enemy. I have lost ships on missions, but it was always due to mechanics rather then my failures as a pilot. I mean, pop drones and the whole spawn kills you? who's idea was that? Oh, I agree with you. Or (this is my favorite) the deadspace gate puts you on top of a collidable object such as a war installation, as the first spawn locks on with webbers and you're pretty much dead in the water since you get stuck on the object. But then you have to look at 0.0... in 0.0 the exact same mechanics exist. In fact, the exact same missions exist. The difference is, a player enemy can know exactly what your fittings are by looking at the NPCs you're fighting for the mission, and gear accordingly. Not only this but PvE and PvP fittings are pretty much polar opposites... so as a mission runner in 0.0 you are just screwed, as there is 0 risk for the attacker. The mission runner is already managing his tank, probably low on cap, possibly webbed, and his fittings are geared against. Either way, missions can be risky. That it's due to poor mechanics doesn't make it less so.

Diana Merris Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.16 03:28:00 - [11] Edited by: Diana Merris on 16/12/2006 03:35:14 There's one minor (actually major) flaw in your argument. You greatly understate the amount of money you can make through mining. You are talking about best possible rewards from Lvl 4 missions. The best possible rewards for mining is about 10 mil an hour not just a couple mil. Dark Shikari just posted a thread about recent mineral price changes and the ISK you can make from various ores. Linkage
Nukeitall Nukeitall Coterie	Posted - 2006.12.16 03:41:00 - [12] Originally by: Diana Merris Edited by: Diana Merris on 16/12/2006 03:35:14 There's one minor (actually major) flaw in your argument. You greatly understate the amount of money you can make through mining. You are talking about best possible rewards from Lvl 4 missions. The best possible rewards for mining is about 10 mil an hour not just a couple mil. Dark Shikari just posted a thread about recent mineral price changes and the ISK you can make from various ores. Linkage I could counter argue and say that the situation is only temporary based on post-patch jitters. Eventually things will calm down. --------- >>Disclaimer: Anything Nukeitall says is not to be taken seriously. Mostly.
Wraithbane	Posted - 2006.12.16 04:04:00 - [13] Nuke...What is your motivation for this post? In what fashion do mission runners in high sec, impact your personal game play? Many of us never go to low sec...So it isn't a PvP concern.
Aarin Wrath	Posted - 2006.12.16 04:05:00 - [14] 1. Lvl4 missions are hard and they take a long time to complete. 2.If you fail the mission you take a VERY heavy standing hit and may have to grind lvl3 missions for a couple weeks to get back in the good graces to do 4s again. 3.If you loose your ship it will take you on average 10-20 missions to replace the ship and who knows how many to replace the fittings. 4.Yes some people (like you I am assuming) can snore through lvl4 missions, but the LARGER majority of capsulers cannot. A fair majority or capsulers have to bring along corp mates in order to be able to finish. If you nerf the rewards more than they have been in the past two years then you will completely kill lvl4 team play. As it currently stands having more than 2-3 gang members with you makes them rather unprofiable compared to say mining pyroxers. Sounds to me like lvl4s carry pretty significant risk to the capsuler. Why should they get less isk for what is involved just because they are in empire? Lvl4 missions are VERY difficult for the average player and failure in a mission can entail severe loss in both standing and isk (ship / module replacement). What is wrong with there bieng a decent way of making isk in empire? *there is no* set formula for sec rating vs. income.** Day traders sit in Jita and make BILLIONS every month with pratically no risk. (yes you could argue market flux could lead to loss, but if you look at the market from a larger time frame you would see that the makets pretty stable accross the board) lvl4 missions are fine ... if anything they need a boost in difficulty and rewards, doing so would decrease the solo play (too hard for single person) and with a rewards boost it would make gang work make sense from an isk /hour stand point.
Nukeitall Nukeitall Coterie	Posted - 2006.12.16 05:12:00 - [15] Originally by: Wraithbane Nuke...What is your motivation for this post? (abbreviated) A fair enough question. Honestly? It just has sat wrong with me for a long, long time. It bothers me to know that I'm doing better then the poor dudes that blow each other apart every day to claim their little spit of land. Originally by: Aarin Wrath 1. Lvl4 missions are hard and they take a long time to complete. 2.If you fail the mission you take a VERY heavy standing hit and may have to grind lvl3 missions for a couple weeks to get back in the good graces to do 4s again. 3.If you loose your ship it will take you on average 10-20 missions to replace the ship and who knows how many to replace the fittings. 4.Yes some people (like you I am assuming) can snore through lvl4 missions, but the LARGER majority of capsulers cannot. A fair majority or capsulers have to bring along corp mates in order to be able to finish. If you nerf the rewards more than they have been in the past two years then you will completely kill lvl4 team play. As it currently stands having more than 2-3 gang members with you makes them rather unprofiable compared to say mining pyroxers. ... Lvl4 missions are VERY difficult for the average player and failure in a mission can entail severe loss in both standing and isk (ship / module replacement). What is wrong with there bieng a decent way of making isk in empire? *there is no* set formula for sec rating vs. income.** Day traders sit in Jita and make BILLIONS every month with pratically no risk. (yes you could argue market flux could lead to loss, but if you look at the market from a larger time frame you would see that the makets pretty stable accross the board) lvl4 missions are fine ... if anything they need a boost in difficulty and rewards, doing so would decrease the solo play (too hard for single person) and with a rewards boost it would make gang work make sense from an isk /hour stand point. 1.When the wheel starts rolling, it gets rolling fast. Eventually (almost) all people who do level 4 missions with consistency get good at it. Real good. Eventually they can beat their previous times. And again. And again. More time passes, and they get better. Eventually they're money making machines and the difficulty is sparse at best. 2.That's...true, but failing a mission is a choice. Even if you lose a battleship you still have about a week to complete the mission. If you can find friends, they can help. If not, you're in a battleship for a reason and you can make some cash to get another one. (like the less attractive mining option) 3.I'm not so sure it takes THAT many missions - if the ship is properly insured there is a 10% difference which translates into about 10 million for ravens (the 'default' mission ship) - that's a couple of the smaller l4 missions, tops. Further a tech1 fit is nearly negligible in cost and can do most missions 'out of the box'. 4.An unexpected consequence. I wasn't aware many folks did these in teams, though I was aware it did occur. As originally envisioned, L4s were created for groups. I'd support a bonus for gang members to cover their addition to the mission, something like a 20% bonus per person. (obviously something would be needed to keep this from getting exploited, ala prenerf gang bonuses) Level 4 missions are 'fine', yes. They currently fill a niche and work fine, people enjoy them. That doesn't change the fact that they are out of place and are superior to 0.0 in many monetary standpoints. (and need to be adjusted) --------- >>Disclaimer: Anything Nukeitall says is not to be taken seriously. Mostly.
Alitha Maru Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2006.12.16 07:27:00 - [16] Although I somewhat agree that many things in EVE are not balanced enough I am always baffeled that everyone wants to cut down on what the percieve as the problem instead of raising the other issues to level the playingfield. In the RL corporate world, where I work, cutting down always leads to an evil spiral. Finding ways to improve by expanding on weaker ideas more often than not generates income. I would rather say keep lvl4 as they is, and improve the conditions of the others out there so they have a better time. And the rewards of lvl4 missions do greatly vary too. I do not always make a lot of money an hour as you say. I would say I net maybe 5-6mill an hour. You go on the assumption that mot lvl4 runners are hardcore do-it-by-the-numbers people. Go in, activate this, shoot this, step right, kill all. Rinse and repeat. But you see, so very very many people are not. Many people take their time, use 3 hours and more on a 1 hour mission some times. Many people. I'm kind of inbetween here. I can go in on a mission, kill something, and then use 30 minutes to examine something. Or just pick up loot before I go to the next gate. And I know of plenty of others that do the same. But ofcourse, if we wanted to we could blitz it like some few players do aswell. As for mining, I could easily make 12 mill an hour alone minimum. But mining is, well, boring. I have made 15+ mill an hour trading, but unless you know your route it can be sporadic as you say. Manufacturing is out of the question as someone will always pricewar you to dust if you try. You're overstating how bad NPC'ing are though Well, I agree that it can be looked into. But with a positive approach, not a negative one. And oh, I do lvl3 mission some times when I feel like a slower pace and since they are easier I can blitz 9-10mill an hour some times so should they be looked into aswell? Have a nice day!
Rafein Eye of God Axiom Empire	Posted - 2006.12.16 07:33:00 - [17] but 0.0 players don;t need level 4 missions. the can just hit a belt and rat, and get better rewards. Personally, i would rather people be able to make isk in Empire so they can afford to PvP, over spending 30 hours of play time to make enough for 1 minute of PvP. Not everyone is ready to live in 0.0 full time, and VERY few have the infrastructure in place, or coming, to make it worthwhile. So many smaller corps/alliances augment their incomes with Empire incomes. Drying that up, and you just get big, bloated alliances made up of corps and players that only look out for themselves, and don't work together.
Saint Bubba	Posted - 2006.12.16 08:22:00 - [18] I disagree with your message. Sorry to say but to get a good quality lvl 4 agent you need to run ALOT of missions for crap ones making less money then other people. The end reward of doing lvl 4 missions is good but dont forget to add in that you need alot more skills. Alot more cash for a bs etc...
Liquid Vision Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.16 10:21:00 - [19] All I know is that it takes me awhile to do Lvl 4s and I bring an alt in a BC along to help loot/salvage. I make good money (for my standards anyway) but it takes a long time. Also, those loyalty points. . .since when do they ever really give you anything worth a damn? You've gotta grind your agent for ages to get up to levels that actually give you something worthwhile at least from what I've seen. Give me my damn picture already!
Nukeitall Nukeitall Coterie	Posted - 2006.12.16 10:37:00 - [20] You guys make some decent arguments, honestly. --------- >>Disclaimer: Anything Nukeitall says is not to be taken seriously. Mostly.

Hephaesteus Gallente PILGRIMS Insane Asylum	Posted - 2006.12.16 11:23:00 - [21] I am always amazed at the lack of content there is out in 0.0 life in 0.0 is Mining, ratting and sitting at a gate camp for hours on end getting bored watching the tv or listening to music while reading a book. I think it would be a good idea if CCP rolled out lvl 5 missions that are only available in 0.0 to the controlling alliance and be a group activity. If they did that and made the rewards for doing it worthwhile to the group it would certainly tempt more people out there. As for lvl4 missions yes they are too easy but every time we get a decent one someone comes running to the forums screaming "OMGWTFBBQD please nerf ******* it is much to hard." ----------------------------------------------- Knowing all, when all is unknown.
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.12.16 11:50:00 - [22] I have not read all the responses but i do think the OP made a very clear analysis of the situation: - Theres many ways to make money in empire: but Lvl'4s are the ones that stand out massively in ISK/Hour I agree, it needs balancing. Basilisk Fitting Link
Llaw Arian	Posted - 2006.12.16 11:56:00 - [23] I don't get the point of arguments like this NEWSFLASH: ANYONE who chooses can do these missions and make the "mega bucks" you detail but the fact that they don't tells me they would rather do something else "less" rewarding but thats their choice. Would you also suggest veldspar starts giving megacyte because someone chooses to ignore the arkanor sitting next to it?
Kerfira	Posted - 2006.12.16 12:03:00 - [24] Edited by: Kerfira on 16/12/2006 12:04:17 Originally by: Nukeitall Whine, trolling, rant... whatever. Ok, so you've won EVE. You have bought your faction fitted ship and can run lvl 4 missions with little problem. Congratulations... Your next step is then to take the features you used to get there away from everyone else. Wow, what a good sport you are! Worry about how YOU play EVE, not about how others play EVE. Missions are just fine! People are having fun doing them, and earning enough money to fund their ships or their PvP alts. You fail to point out the problem, except some (very) vague "people earn too much money". General advice: Stop whining!
Sokratesz Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.12.16 12:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Llaw Arian I don't get the point of arguments like this NEWSFLASH: ANYONE who chooses can do these missions and make the "mega bucks" you detail but the fact that they don't tells me they would rather do something else "less" rewarding but thats their choice. Would you also suggest veldspar starts giving megacyte because someone chooses to ignore the arkanor sitting next to it? It's not like you can make mega bucks, its just too much compared to the rest of empire. Basilisk Fitting Link
Malibu Stacey Gallente Playboy Enterprises	Posted - 2006.12.16 15:18:00 - [26] OK I'd like to post my perspective here but bear in mind I've not started flying Level 4 missions as yet but I am about to start in the next week or so. When I started playing Eve 6 months ago I flew level 1's in Oursulaert in a Tristan while my learning skills trained & so I could get some standing with the Federation Navy to allow me access to the higher level agents. Worlds Collide was my 2nd mission & it felt like a seat of the pants ride that I was lucky to escape with my ship (barely) intact from. A month or so later whenever I got Worlds Collide I would think "excellent some fun for a change" as I could now clear all the rats in all the pockets without even dropping in to armour (still flying the Tristan but without armour plating & using ion blasters & rockets). What was a real challenge for me had become very easy not because I could afford a better ship or mods (still the same Tristan with all looted T1/named mods) or had better skills (had only the bare minimum for fitting as I was doing advanced learning skills up to level 4 first) but because of my own experience in playing the game. Yeah the rewards weren't amazing & once I got to 6K LP's (which I thought was a massive amount at the time) I was offered a Thorax by my agent which I happily took after scrounging up the minerals from recycling the crap loot in my hanger & a donation of zydrine & megacyte from a member of my corp. With my shiny new Thorax I took off for pastures anew & found a nice level 2 agent with quality 15 a few jumps from me in a 0.8 sec system (Vylade). I flew missions for him & learned more about the game while doing so. Again the missions weren't easy to begin with, I had to warp out of a few for fear of losing my Thorax which although it would only cost 6 million to replace & had platinum insurance on it would still be a significant loss for me as I didn't have 10 million ISK at the time. But again I learned how best to handle the missions & even which missions I should decline because the time vs reward wasn't effective. I also learned about mining Omber in Human Cattle 5/5 which meant I spent some time learning skills to fly & fit an Osprey for mining as well as put in the capital to purchase what was only my 2nd Cruiser & it's mods. I also learned about the Agent Offers & got myself a Military Connections skill book from this agent & an almost full set of +2 implants from storyline missions thanks to this level 2 agent. I now have almost 19K LP's with this agent & am holding out for another connections skill book before I move on to level 4's. So here I am after 6 months. I've bought a Dominix for 60 million and spent a good chunk on mods to fit it for level 4 missions and still have 150 million+ thanks to the level 2 missions (loving that Omber in Human Cattle 5/5). I'm still waiting to finish training up some skills to fit my Dominix (Energy Emissions III to fit Heavy Nosferatu finishes in 4 hours) and there's some skills I consider as requirements before I'll even attempt a level 4 mission so it will take me a week or 2 to get fully ready. I don't know what to expect from level 4 missions to be perfectly honest other than they're going to be hard but it's taken me 6 months to be able to have some chance of completing one so I'm hoping the reward(s) will be worth it. Reason being that just like real life, if I want to buy shiny new stuff to enjoy, I have to have an income to support my purchasing. I'd like to get a Megathron & go help an alliance in the south of 0.0 & hopefully someday a Carrier too (I'm Gallente, it's in our DNA to fly Carriers & Motherships) but without a proper income which for me is missions, I'll never be able to support myself in this. This is my newbie view on missioning. Level 4's are the top tier right now & rightly so the rewards are high because of the time that has to be invested just to be able to do them. Completing them successfully is a whole other thread. --- Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Alitha Maru Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2006.12.16 15:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Malibu Stacey OK I'd like to post my perspective here but bear in mind I've not started flying Level 4 missions as yet but I am about to start in the next week or so. snip Well said, it says it all.
Nukeitall Nukeitall Coterie	Posted - 2006.12.16 20:43:00 - [28] Edited by: Nukeitall on 16/12/2006 20:46:33 And the alts come out to party. Originally by: Llaw Arian I don't get the point of arguments like this NEWSFLASH: ANYONE who chooses can do these missions and make the "mega bucks" you detail but the fact that they don't tells me they would rather do something else "less" rewarding but thats their choice. Would you also suggest veldspar starts giving megacyte because someone chooses to ignore the arkanor sitting next to it? That's a totally broken analogy. I never suggested anything of the sort - I suggested more adjustments to L4s to take them down from their pedestal they sit upon now. It won't kill them entirely but it will make them more in line with the rest of empire, as it should be. Read my post further, or, again. Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 16/12/2006 12:04:17 Originally by: Nukeitall Whine, trolling, rant... whatever. Ok, so you've won EVE. You have bought your faction fitted ship and can run lvl 4 missions with little problem. Congratulations... Your next step is then to take the features you used to get there away from everyone else. Wow, what a good sport you are! Worry about how YOU play EVE, not about how others play EVE. Missions are just fine! People are having fun doing them, and earning enough money to fund their ships or their PvP alts. You fail to point out the problem, except some (very) vague "people earn too much money". ....Ignoring everything and posting this insulting drivel...alright. You don't know me. You don't have a clue. I've done missions for months. Years. I'm no newbie to this sort of thing. I've flown a tech1 raven on the hardest missions just to see if it could be done, and I've done them all. Missions are not fine. Ignoring issues just because they don't hurt you(in fact BENEFIT you) is a narrow sighted and ill-thought out view, even selfish. The fact remains is that 0.0 gets a run for it's money because of missions, and they have to fight to the death to get usage of it. In addition, the rest of empire is left choking in the dust in raw money earned. How's that for a problem? does that sound right to you? Screaming "THERE'S NO PROBLEM THERE'S NO PROBLEM" while loading your pockets makes you look somewhat suspect I also might add. --------- >>Disclaimer: Anything Nukeitall says is not to be taken seriously. Mostly.
Hex'Caliber Gallente	Posted - 2006.12.16 23:20:00 - [29] Therein lies part of your problem, you mention the tech 1 raven, every man and his dog knows how easy it is to blitz through missions in a cnr. The fact that one races ships are superior to all others for mission running is also grossly imbalanced, yes, I know the balance shifts the other way in pvp, but this is pve we are discussing. Running mission's in a rail fitted mega takes me a damn sight longer than any raven pilot can do them, do I intend to train a races ships just to make my mission running easier, do I hell. I know a great many competent mission runners who feel exactly the same way as I and continue to grind level 4's using their chosen platform and do so much slower than the "i-win missions in my cnr pilots". I can assure you our income is a great deal less than your projections. I too have various social skills trained to maximise my earning potential, multi room missions can take over four hours to clear when I factor in looting and salvage, but I can make just as much per hour ratting in 0.0 and often do. After a little research on a systems true sec rating, every few belts I get a faction spawn and they drop loot I can sell to mission runners for stupid monopoly money prices, or I can go plex running and rake in even more faction modules for profit. Having lived in 0.0 exclusively in the past, I can assure you war decÆs aside others that do are not scratching around to make a buck, if they are; it is through their own blind stupidity. If there is an imbalance within the eve economy, it is in the game mechanics that allows certain groups to camp high level static plexes 24/7 raking in billions in profit EACH and EVERY day. SISI testing ôDonÆt forget to start the log server before the client; the logs are needed for bug reports when something goes wrong.ö Regards HexCaliber
Mini Mizer	Posted - 2006.12.17 00:05:00 - [30] There is no pedestal. Just keep running your lvl 4's where your at or move cause that isnt common with other lvl 4 agents. the rewards suck for 95% of the lvl 4's ive been in. the other 5 % doesnt count cause the entire friggen room aggros you and that seems to be aok with the people who design ths crap so you typically dont redo that mission. and the .5 - .7 security system agents - sorry ... there just isnt as much of a difference then runnin an agent in .8 or .9 with 10+ qaulity. The whole agent thing is still really fubar. Quality seems to be the only thing to consider in any agent. I personally have never seen over 2500 LP for a lvl 4 mission (like 1 a week where it was even close.) and i certainly never saw 20 million in bounties (most mission bonus's were like 500k-1000k) and no I wont play in lagfest of a system where 20000+ faction ships are destroyed daily so I may never see those 8000 LP missions. I do know that moving to .4 or .5 for a new agent ( where i had an effective Quality of 8-14) was dumb and there was definitely no increase in rewards ( in reality a decrease). So frankly i feel totally decieved to by the GODS of CCP with the move to a lower security area hype. and to have to do 80 lvl 4 missions to pay off a BS is far too stupid a risk. the drops still really suck. So Nukeitall your one of the exception's, certainly not the norm. lvl4's are certainly risky enough and certainly more risky vs rewarding especially in a BS. and no i dont fly ravens so that must entirely be my problem. Congrats for getting so much LP, apparantly you dont want that though. lvl 4's are the suck and no i dont want to run lvl 4's where apparantly all the good LP comes from. CCP needs to wake up and sort the agent and rewards correctly - look at the 10 20k + faction ship kill systems and look why people are there. again moving those agents to 0.0 or low sec is silly just create a few more agents and spread the love around so the only reason there are 30 people running missions in the same space might be because there is decent group of corp members all hanging out in the same area. Give the player a reason for moving to the next agent vs just moving due to lag or rewards send them off to meet an agent of similar quality in another safe system on an assignment. There is plenty of risk and not much reward for most of the players who do not choose to run certain agents. So simply put Nuke - move to another agent with lower quality, that is an easy fix. other dumb annoyances: smartbombing asteroids and beacons shooting at ships gate sniping groups - let them face some faction police ships if they stay on their post too long. rigging bpo's for 120k isk. moving all lvl 4's to 0.0 is just a dumb idea. salvage - no - why itll all be a dime a dozen when ccp does thier thing. the no challenge scanning probes the contract system researching labs especially for newer players people selling products for the mere cost of buying minerals not understanding the concept of why they should make some profit NPC corps not buying stuff they claim the need and use in their descriptions for any profit at all. Eventually their stations should shut down since they arent getting any supplies LOL foums which are down on patch days forums which make the last character you create the first one your posting with. people crying nerf it. the idea of moving lvl 4's to 0.0.... people online and mining for 22 of 24 hours and then go gate jumping through 3-4 gates to then come back and start all over. I want to be able to pay 10-50 million isk and have ship kill rights on anyone with no security hit and no interference, 250 million for a pod. Each person wanting kill rights would have to pay in full in advance, non refundable. Thieves can certainly be made to pay for thier crimes, suspect macroers had better be more attentive, of course there are certainly other issues with that.



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.