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Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2006.12.18 03:27:00 - [1] I don't know if it's just me, but some of the new missions feel as if they got harder. Today my CNR lost it's armor (AND structure just now, managed to get out at 52%) virginity, my cap just doesn't seem like it's lasting as long as it should. Now, I use 3 damage mods and know about the stacking penalty, and I don't really need more than one PDU down there. I'm pretty happy with the setup overall, which uses tech 2 cruise launchers 95% of the time. I'd love more cap to play around with but more damage is always welcome but tank comes first. The options I've come up with so far are... Cap capacity or regen rig + cap capacity or regen rig + missile speed rig(should get me a little more effectiveness against defenders) cap rig + cap rig + the rig that reduces the cap need of boosters cap rig + 2x missile speed rig I love the idea of the missile speed rigs with cruise missiles, it helps with some of the drawbacks of using missiles in missions. Less time for defenders to take out your missiles, and less dud missiles that fly out into oblivion because they were launched just before the target blew up. Ideas/suggestions?
Ryysa Total Failure	Posted - 2006.12.18 03:30:00 - [2] raven with gist fitting shouldn't have problems tanking stuff, imo faster is better - so go for rigs that increase the dps from your missiles. All about target jamming
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2006.12.18 03:45:00 - [3] I've been using a gist booster for like 5 months now, along with four tech 2 hardeners and a boost amp. Before today nothing had ever gotten through my CNR's shields. And besides, the damage/rof rigs are crap compared to damage mods. It takes two of them to get CLOSE to one tech 2 damage mod, if they didn't suffer from stacking penalties I'd for sure put some on.
Carnye Dubro Caldari Shock and Awe	Posted - 2006.12.18 04:26:00 - [4] I'm considering the Cap Regen Rig, the Shield Regen Rig and the Missile ROF rig...
Sahne MuhMuh	Posted - 2006.12.18 05:03:00 - [5] You will run out of CPU with those missile rigs. And even the Missile speed rigs shouldn¦t help you much against defenders. I would go for 3 cap regen rigs.
Hotice	Posted - 2006.12.18 05:04:00 - [6] I would use 1 cap recharge rig, 1 shield booster cap usage reduction rig, and 1 missile explosion radius effect reduction rig. Damage and Rof riggs are no good if you use more than 2 BCUs.
Gor Kraon Minmatar Shadowclan	Posted - 2006.12.18 05:26:00 - [7] Cap capacity rig is better than cap recharge as i understand. (Capacity affects both total and recharge, when recharge only affects recharge.) In the same form, shield capacity should be better than shield recharge. I would probably use cap capacity rigs to try and free a mid slot (cap recharger) for another boost amp or hardener.
Ryysa Total Failure	Posted - 2006.12.18 06:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Ashira Twilight I've been using a gist booster for like 5 months now, along with four tech 2 hardeners and a boost amp. Before today nothing had ever gotten through my CNR's shields. And besides, the damage/rof rigs are crap compared to damage mods. It takes two of them to get CLOSE to one tech 2 damage mod, if they didn't suffer from stacking penalties I'd for sure put some on. Note why i wrote "DPS", explosion radius affects DPS on small targets, etc. There is a reason I did not write damage or rof, but dps. Anyhow, don't know what kind of rats you are tanking, but 4 hardeners isn't all that good imo, you can change hardener <-> cap II and 1 pdu <-> dcu, ofcourse it depends on what you are tanking, if you are fighting stuff with lasers, 4 hardeners will certainly perform better. All about target jamming
Harotak Legion of Lost Souls Ivy League	Posted - 2006.12.18 06:45:00 - [9] Use cap recharge rigs if you want more tank. Three of these will give you about 63% better cap recharge, which with the right skills and fitting can be enough to run a faction XL shield booster non-stop. For missions I would look into the missile explosion radius rigs. With three of these you should be hitting cruisers for close to full damage. A missile speed rig is of help if it will push your missiles over 7.5km/s, which is the speed NPC defenders fly at. With missiles that fly over that speed NPCs will not be able to hit them with defenders. I think that you can reach this speed with good skills and maybe an implant though, so I wouldn't recomend wasting a rig slot on this. You can prevent wasting missiles on destroyed targets by only firing as many as you need at each target rather than waiting for your launchers to deactivate themselves. I run T1 torps now with the jav nerf, and even with their slow speed I don't waste very many since I have learned how many salvos it takes to destroy each target. For instance when fighting NPC battlecruisers I will fire a full salvo at the first target (as well as paint it), and then split the launchers on the second salvo (so I have 9 torps on the way to target one, and three on the way to target 2). Then for the third salvo its six on the second target (as well as switching the painter over after first salvo impacts). So with three salvos I can destroy two targets instead of firing as many as 3 or 4 salvos at the first target before the target pops and causes the launchers to deactivate themselves.
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolance	Posted - 2006.12.18 07:01:00 - [10] Edited by: Riho on 18/12/2006 07:02:34 Originally by: Ashira Twilight I've been using a gist booster for like 5 months now, along with four tech 2 hardeners and a boost amp. Before today nothing had ever gotten through my CNR's shields. And besides, the damage/rof rigs are crap compared to damage mods. It takes two of them to get CLOSE to one tech 2 damage mod, if they didn't suffer from stacking penalties I'd for sure put some on. guess u did something wrong then ... becouse i havent had eny problems sofar whit eny of the new missios or whit old missions... i use a plain simple raven whit gimpy faction booster and boost amp (large booster). and i do missions in low sec where they are bit harder too :/ i use t1 torps to do missions instead of cruise. im going to get 2x cap regen rigs for sure on my raven... if i manage to get em :) then i can tank even better and mybe dont have to warp out once on mordus second stage :D
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.12.18 07:07:00 - [11] Edited by: Akita T on 18/12/2006 07:09:32 Originally by: Gor Kraon Cap capacity rig is better than cap recharge as i understand. (Capacity affects both total and recharge, when recharge only affects recharge.) In the same form, shield capacity should be better than shield recharge. Quite the contrary, esecially for missions/generic PvE. For PvP, the maxcap ones are arguably better anyway, taking into account short battle durations and occasional NOSage. The 15% maxcap rigs do indeed mean +15% to maxcap, which also means +15% to cap recharge. The -15% recharge time ones mean same maxcap, but +17.647% recharge RATE. Fiting 3x Semiconductor Memory Cell I will give you +52% maxcap to begin with (and +52% cap recharge rate), while fiting 3x Capacitor Control Circuit I will not change your maxcap, but give +62.833 cap recharge rate. Same with the shield rigs... depends what you prefer, a bigger buffer or a faster recharge rate. ____ P.S. Quite coincidentally, the building components for CCCI and SMCI are the same types, but CCCI uses less than half compared to SMCI. In other words, you could buy 2 CCCIs for less than the price of one SMCI. _ My skills \| Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained
Harotak Legion of Lost Souls Ivy League	Posted - 2006.12.18 07:32:00 - [12] You make a good point about using max cap rigs instead. I would have to agree that the extra capacity offsets the slightly smaller recharge rate increase, especialy in pvp.
Renox Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2006.12.18 08:47:00 - [13] the max cap rig and maybe the rig to reduce cap use of the shield booster as that is the mod drawing the power from your system. TheJay > grrr slow stupid garlic eating surrender monkeys
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.12.18 09:20:00 - [14] Originally by: Renox the max cap rig and maybe the rig to reduce cap use of the shield booster as that is the mod drawing the power from your system. CDCSI only gives -10% usage bonus for boosters, three of them would reduce booster cap usage by -27.1%, or in other words, if you have +37.17 cap recharge rate and ONLY use boosters (no other active mods), you get the same end-effect. However, you get (at best) a +15.7% sigradius increase (+25.9% at worst, w/ShieldRigging L1), and a far worse cap percentage "usage" rate compared to using 3 SMCIs or 3 CCCIs. All in all, the cheap and easy alternative would remain CCCIs for PvE, and the best alternative SMCIs for PvP. CDCSIs are just worthless, they need a bigger bonus to become viable... say, -15% usage per level for T1s and -20% for T2s. _ My skills \| Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.18 09:27:00 - [15] My personal choices for a raven would be to make its tank even harder: 1 EM shield resist rig 1 shield booster cap use rig 1 shield booster duration reduction rig -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Gor Kraon Minmatar Shadowclan	Posted - 2006.12.18 10:51:00 - [16] Originally by: Akita T Quite the contrary, esecially for missions/generic PvE. For PvP, the maxcap ones are arguably better anyway, taking into account short battle durations and occasional NOSage. The 15% maxcap rigs do indeed mean +15% to maxcap, which also means +15% to cap recharge. The -15% recharge time ones mean same maxcap, but +17.647% recharge RATE. Fiting 3x Semiconductor Memory Cell I will give you +52% maxcap to begin with (and +52% cap recharge rate), while fiting 3x Capacitor Control Circuit I will not change your maxcap, but give +62.833 cap recharge rate. Yeah, the recharge ones give more peak recharge, but that doesn't make the rig better as a whole, which is what i meant. It just means the only thing a cap recharge rig does is barely better than the 'side effect' of a cap capacity rig, while they also have a huge effect on another useful stat. The only case in which a cap capacity rig would not be better is in making a permanently running setup. As a test, take a Dominix and fill it with rigs: 3 SMCI: 8745 cap, 870 recharge (about 24.6 cap/s) 3 CCCI: 5750 cap, 534 recharge (about 26.3 cap/s) Thats what, 7% more recharge with CCCI over SMCI? Not very impressive... Especially when you have an extra 52% more cap on the SMCI... I'd take a SCMI over CCCI anyday. So yeah, the SMCI rig is better. And same should be true for shield capacity rigs.
Gor Kraon Minmatar Shadowclan	Posted - 2006.12.18 10:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Wrayeth My personal choices for a raven would be to make its tank even harder: 1 EM shield resist rig 1 shield booster cap use rig 1 shield booster duration reduction rig Resist rigs stack with modules, fitting one is just plain bad. As mentioned above, the shield booster cap use rig is inferior to either cap capacity or cap recharge rigs, both will do its job and then some. No idea if the booster duration rig is good, i guess it lets you boost faster, which uses more cap... a boost amp would probably do that better (and use no more cap).
Wrayeth Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2006.12.18 10:59:00 - [18] The shield resist rig may stack with other modules, but it's still useful. If, for instance, you're running two dread guristas invulnerability fields, an EM resist rig is pretty much exactly what you need to plug up the low EM resist. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Roxy Kell Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.18 11:03:00 - [19] For Ravens, Missile Speed, missiles precision, and target navigation rediction will be a good choice, especially for top users. 1 damage rig is nice though, Main: Roxanna Kell Alt: shing Shwang Shu Shy Shun yu

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