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Sethur Blackcoat Caldari Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:16:00 - [31] Edited by: Sethur Blackcoat on 18/12/2006 16:19:41 As at least two people, one of them belonging to BoB have pointed out, there is exactly one thing stopping you from 'winning' EVE: its size, and the logistic problems associated with it. As BoB (or any alliance) grows bigger and claims more territory, they will likely also grow in number - but not with the same speed if they want to uphold the quality of their members, or with declining quality if they want to increase their numbers sufficiently. Also, the more territory you control, the longer your borders become - and the border also grows faster than the area (this is a mathematical law, if you're on a two-dimensional plane - which, considering you can use the flattened starmap as a reference point, is true). So now you run into two problems - firstly, if you do not want your average pilot skill to become worse, your pilots will be spread out less densely, and secondly the larger your borders are the more routes into your territory become available to your enemies AS WELL as the total number of enemies growing larger (because you will come closer to their territory, and thus be percieved as a threat). Even if you hav jump clones, titans, and multiple accounts - your resources, in ISK, production capacity, and (real-life) manpower is limited. Under these circumstances, once your territory has grown large enough, all it takes is one of your enemies to decide to try and push you away from their territory again. From then on, events will likely cascade - since you are focusing your power in the area of attack, your enemies on the other borders/sides will realize this weakness and (if you are large enough and close enough to be percieved as a very viable threat by them) seize the opportunity and attack. Now you are fighting a two-border war - which may still be manageable. But now you are splitting your forces in two already, and any more enemies you have will see this, and take this as another incentive to attack. The more spread out you are, the weaker you appear (and are), and thus the more enemies will dare attack you, even if they would never try if they'd be the only ones. This takes absolutely no communication on your enemies' side - once one of them attacks, the others will see and try to exploit your new weakness on their own. It is this problem that hs crushed most of the great empires - the romans, the french (yes, they had a quite large empire once - remember Napoleon?) and, dare I say it, the german one (this even over the course of several wars - which demonstrates it doesn't even have to happen all at once). Does this mean BoB will eventually be crushed? No, not by far. But there is a limit on how much territory you can control - and this entire theory has worked without even factoring in lies, spies, sabotage, theft and deciept (which are, after all, a rather large part of EVE). At some point, every empire will grow so large it can no longer sustain itself completely - at which point it will begin to fall, until it is again small enough so become stable, after which the process may (as in, it can - but most not) start again. If the empire manages to rebuild itself to its former glory depends on other circumstances; how much pressure will be kept on them by the other, newer powers, for example. It is not impossible, it will be hard, but it can be done - but it CANNOT ever grow large enough to consume and rule all there is.
Apollo Balthar Minmatar The Sausage Smuggling Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:31:00 - [32] You can't beat EvE but you can beat StEvE ------------------------------------------------ WTS: tech2 clue
Olgzr Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:33:00 - [33] Eve could be won I suppose, if the condition is all 0.0 being controlled by one entity. I doubt CCP would let that happen because winning usually means game over.
CDS Leader Caldari Eve Forum Warriors	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:40:00 - [34] Originally by: Olgzr Eve could be won I suppose, if the condition is all 0.0 being controlled by one entity. I doubt CCP would let that happen because winning usually means game over. Eve China is now almost entirely controled by a single entity. CCP will do nothing to stop players running their own empire.
Farham Gallente AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:44:00 - [35] Quote: Eve China is now almost entirely controled by a single entity. CCP will do nothing to stop players running their own empire. That is bunk. If that situation in China stays that way and it ends up affecting subscription figures because people don't see a reason to bother you better bet the farm they will make changes to fix it. The same holds true for TQ. If one entity were to cause a situation where others just say "screw it" and stop playing and more importantly, stop paying, CCP as any busines would, would make changes and damn fast. I don't believe any one entity will ever be allowed to beat EVE, it is not in CCP's best interest to allow it.
CDS Leader Caldari Eve Forum Warriors	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Farham Quote: Eve China is now almost entirely controled by a single entity. CCP will do nothing to stop players running their own empire. That is bunk. If that situation in China stays that way and it ends up affecting subscription figures because people don't see a reason to bother you better bet the farm they will make changes to fix it. The same holds true for TQ. If one entity were to cause a situation where others just say "screw it" and stop playing and more importantly, stop paying, CCP as any busines would, would make changes and damn fast. I don't believe any one entity will ever be allowed to beat EVE, it is not in CCP's best interest to allow it. Who is going to stop eve china? The guy who runs the guild has salaried staff that work all day on eve for him. If you stand against him, he will hire you or fire you!
Olgzr Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.18 17:49:00 - [37] Originally by: CDS Leader Originally by: Farham Quote: Eve China is now almost entirely controled by a single entity. CCP will do nothing to stop players running their own empire. That is bunk. If that situation in China stays that way and it ends up affecting subscription figures because people don't see a reason to bother you better bet the farm they will make changes to fix it. The same holds true for TQ. If one entity were to cause a situation where others just say "screw it" and stop playing and more importantly, stop paying, CCP as any busines would, would make changes and damn fast. I don't believe any one entity will ever be allowed to beat EVE, it is not in CCP's best interest to allow it. Who is going to stop eve china? The guy who runs the guild has salaried staff that work all day on eve for him. If you stand against him, he will hire you or fire you! I admit to knowing nothing about the China server but what you describe makes no sense. Paid staff and control of all 0.0? Whats the point? Can't be for gameing purposes. All they would have for pvp would be gank squads and ninja miners. So I assume its to control resourses and sell isk. But if there are no big wars who needs ships and modules?
Dr Einkeisel Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.18 18:03:00 - [38] Im slightly confused over this china thing, is he paying real life money for people to play eve and make his empire, from what I understand the guy who heads the alliance was a massive ebayer on this server, although I could be confused
TylerJames Team Americas Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.18 18:37:00 - [39] Originally by: Olgzr Originally by: CDS Leader Originally by: Farham Quote: Eve China is now almost entirely controled by a single entity. CCP will do nothing to stop players running their own empire. That is bunk. If that situation in China stays that way and it ends up affecting subscription figures because people don't see a reason to bother you better bet the farm they will make changes to fix it. The same holds true for TQ. If one entity were to cause a situation where others just say "screw it" and stop playing and more importantly, stop paying, CCP as any busines would, would make changes and damn fast. I don't believe any one entity will ever be allowed to beat EVE, it is not in CCP's best interest to allow it. Who is going to stop eve china? The guy who runs the guild has salaried staff that work all day on eve for him. If you stand against him, he will hire you or fire you! I admit to knowing nothing about the China server but what you describe makes no sense. Paid staff and control of all 0.0? Whats the point? Can't be for gameing purposes. All they would have for pvp would be gank squads and ninja miners. So I assume its to control resourses and sell isk. But if there are no big wars who needs ships and modules? This whole China server side story is the most interesting thing in this thread.
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2006.12.18 18:53:00 - [40] Edited by: Reto on 18/12/2006 18:54:00 lol ppl said that theres someone who pays ppl for controlling eve on the china server. tbh i heard that chinese would farm gold in WoW like insane and sell it on ebay but tbh if this is true someone has a way too big ego and forgot what a game is about /edit: if theres more info about this available could someone post it and/or direct to a link where this is discussed plz. me too curious bout that Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Highlander Amarr Black Eclipse Corp	Posted - 2006.12.18 21:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Reto Edited by: Reto on 18/12/2006 18:54:00 lol ppl said that theres someone who pays ppl for controlling eve on the china server. tbh i heard that chinese would farm gold in WoW like insane and sell it on ebay but tbh if this is true someone has a way too big ego and forgot what a game is about /edit: if theres more info about this available could someone post it and/or direct to a link where this is discussed plz. me too curious bout that Can not direct you to it, but there was an article in daily mail in UK about somehting similar. basicly, instead of the old 'sweat shops' pumping out cheap clothes, so chinese have factory size units full of computers with paid staff just farming various games. isk/creds/gold/items then sold on ebay etc. the workers are in air con. unit, so better than clothes factory, and the boss gets rich on western $$ of course as pointed out, on china eve, if his team, rules then who buys his stuff as ppl stop playing...
prsr Gallente JuBa Corp	Posted - 2006.12.18 21:20:00 - [42] Edited by: prsr on 18/12/2006 21:26:02 Originally by: Reto tbh i heard that chinese would farm gold in WoW like insane and sell it on ebay but tbh if this is true someone has a way too big ego and forgot what a game is about Chinese and other people in low-wage countries get paid by local businesses to collect items in pretty much all sizable mmorpgs. The owners of such businesses rarely sell anything to foreign players directly, they deliver items to a reseller operating from the US or any other country where there is demand. So yea, as you might have guessed, if you spend money to buy mmorpg items on ebay or directly from the reseller sites you are in effect paying the guy in china farming the items. A good chunk of that real world money goes into your resellers pockets, the rest goes to the local entrepeneurs in low-wage countries to pay themselves and their staff. How the "owner" of eve china operates i dunno, i suppose he makes his money from the membership fees of his alliance and manages to pay others even less to arrange all the stuff that his members will need ingame, talk about mining slaves :/ Not really the eve-china that CCP imagined I hope. Either they have to make a new game tailered for china alone or they will have to find some way to go with the flow... CCP should consider providing the framework to merge the in-game and realworld companies that control the players there. If thats how the locals want it to be... They can have all their free stuff and get a really competitive gaming experience too. You think the forums are bad because of fake money... wait until you see forumwars about real money -- .sig apathy ftw
Katrina Kirellii Caldari Escorts of Eve	Posted - 2006.12.18 21:39:00 - [43] There will come a time when jumpgates from one station to another are twined and jumpdrives are used more extensively. When that day arrives, topography of space and the acceleration gates will not have as much impact on war. When that day comes, Octobersnow may even eclipse BoB. They both use capital ships so it is not completely absurd. Think about it - one day you can bet Ginger Magician will be camping a gate in a Titan. Katrina Kirellii Captain of the Silken Mistress
gaz widdow Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS	Posted - 2006.12.19 08:32:00 - [44] Yea I created a ALT and the tuturial said join BOB or die very worring indeed
Shizuko Caldari E X O D U S	Posted - 2006.12.19 08:44:00 - [45] BoB will never hold the entirety of 0.0. Fact.
DiuxDium Casting Shadows	Posted - 2006.12.19 08:45:00 - [46] Originally by: prsr words Err wait. You're saying 1) Some dude pays people in ISK, or real money to farm for him... 2) This dude pays EVERYONE on the chinese server 3) Who the hell buys his ISK? I mean...if everyone is bought by him, why do they need ISK? To fight the non-existant wars? Are NPC's that buff. Someone care to explain, this is the only interesting thing to come up in these forums in months, so I'm very much interested in hearing this one out.
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:28:00 - [47] There is only one thing required for a relatively small group of players to effectively claim and police a relatively large area of space. That thing is instas (now WTZ). ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
CDS Leader Caldari Eve Forum Warriors	Posted - 2006.12.19 09:40:00 - [48] Originally by: Dr Einkeisel Im slightly confused over this china thing, is he paying real life money for people to play eve and make his empire, from what I understand the guy who heads the alliance was a massive ebayer on this server, although I could be confused The guy is the leader of a Guild that farms multiple games. He has yaughts and no doubt a mansion to boot. Anyhow, what he has done is control pretty much the entire 0.0 space. There are no pirates, and NBSI is not really a issue. The only real opponents are other Guilds, which are crushed. He has a "eve players" factory where he pays them to play eve all day. He hires some of them. Others, he gives free ships etc. However - That is 0.0. With full control of 0.0, you get to fix prices on all uber gear entering empire. And yes, people would spend a months wage to get a DG hardner, and live off beans for the month. Far from bankrupting his enterprise, the proceeds fund it.

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