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Minmatar missile cruiser (AKA bellicose love)

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Arktaos Minmatar The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.12.18 13:06:00 - [1] Now i recently looked a bit over all the different minmatar ships and noticed something that was off with in the cruiser section. In the frigate section, we have the breacher as a missile boat, that is still sub-par to the caldari missile frigate. In the battleship section we now have the Typhoon that is a half missile boat, but sub-par to the raven. But if you look in the cruiser section we don't have any missile bonus at all. We do have the bellicose that has a split-weapon system (3 guns, 3 missiles) and a target painting bonus. This ship is however very rarely used, unless for support to battleships with rage torps. Here is my suggestion for the new bellicose: Change the 5% rof to turrets to a 5% rof to missile launchers. (This could also be done by simply adding an extra launcher slot to the bellicose, so it would have 4 launcher slots) This change would make it a better missile boat, but it would still be sub-par to the Caracal (5 launchers, +10% kin dmg per lvl). Change one of the 5 highs to a med to make it a true EW boat, with a 4/5/3 slot layout. This would not overpower it as ECM has been nerfed and it couldnt just stack up on it. Now we would have the bellicose as a missile ship with a TP bonus, which would also allow it to make better use of fury heavy missiles, for that extra edge that makes minmatar ships special. Am i insane for wanting this? Is it too much to ask? Or simply the best idea ever for the sexy little bellicose? ---------------------------------
Hiro Kazamatsuri	Posted - 2006.12.18 13:28:00 - [2] that wouldn't hurt. but as there is another thread about how the ferox is obsolete now, yours will not attract a lot of comments ;) Aye for belli upgrade !
pushdogg Minmatar The BlackSail Corp	Posted - 2006.12.18 15:18:00 - [3] Edited by: pushdogg on 18/12/2006 15:29:18 i approve, the devs should look at this post, as i love the belli's model but, its stats are sub-par to say the least EDIT: now that i think about it, this would be a great christmas present ccp best sig ever:) Originally by: Soul Harvestor You're an idiot.
M00dy Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:02:00 - [4] Here, here! Minmatar Missile Ships: Frig: Breacher, Missile Bonus Cruiser: Belicose, Gun Bonus? BS: Typhoon, Missile Bonus Doesn't make much Sense.
Aleksei Thraddash Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:07:00 - [5] 4 launcher slots and a missile ROF bonus would be great.
Mila Prestoc	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:09:00 - [6] Took 3 years to get the Typhoon a missile bonus, I don't hold out much hope for the Bellicose. ------------------------- Originally by: "Lord Violent" EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
Agnar Koladrov Gallente Hurricane Corporation	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Mila Prestoc Took 3 years to get the Typhoon a missile bonus, I don't hold out much hope for the Bellicose. And then to think of it, the change would prolly be a 5 min job, which will take 3 years :p Anyway, I agree with the OP. ________________________________________________ -- What a Revelation! -- Where was the creativty for speed/mass/etc when the tier2 Battlecruisers were designed? Why the same for each race BC?
Diana Merris Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.18 16:58:00 - [8] This would be a good change and provide at least a little bit of justification for the TP bonus. Of course lots of people suggested making it a missile boat when they were doing the RMR 2nd bonus but we all see how that worked out.
mallina Caldari Cure.	Posted - 2006.12.18 17:01:00 - [9] Consider that this ship is supposed to be in line with the: Blackbird Celestis Arbitrator the only difference at current being that the Belli isnt able to defend itself using its form of EW, whereas the others can to a degree. giving it a missile ROF bonus would probably be welcome, but it cant be made too good. ----------- vids: Terrorseries Turbulance
Pliskkenn Minmatar Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.18 17:29:00 - [10] Originally by: Arktaos Now i recently looked a bit over all the different minmatar ships and noticed something that was off with in the cruiser section. In the frigate section, we have the breacher as a missile boat, that is still sub-par to the caldari missile frigate. In the battleship section we now have the Typhoon that is a half missile boat, but sub-par to the raven. But if you look in the cruiser section we don't have any missile bonus at all. We do have the bellicose that has a split-weapon system (3 guns, 3 missiles) and a target painting bonus. This ship is however very rarely used, unless for support to battleships with rage torps. Here is my suggestion for the new bellicose: Change the 5% rof to turrets to a 5% rof to missile launchers. (This could also be done by simply adding an extra launcher slot to the bellicose, so it would have 4 launcher slots) This change would make it a better missile boat, but it would still be sub-par to the Caracal (5 launchers, +10% kin dmg per lvl). Change one of the 5 highs to a med to make it a true EW boat, with a 4/5/3 slot layout. This would not overpower it as ECM has been nerfed and it couldnt just stack up on it. Now we would have the bellicose as a missile ship with a TP bonus, which would also allow it to make better use of fury heavy missiles, for that extra edge that makes minmatar ships special. Am i insane for wanting this? Is it too much to ask? Or simply the best idea ever for the sexy little bellicose? Give this man a medal. Simple fix, not over the top. *<3's the OP and offers him "Bratwurst" I love the Belli model too, it'd be even nicer if it was useful.
Altemi Calabre	Posted - 2006.12.18 18:04:00 - [11] I actually have a Bellicose fitted with a pair of arty and 3 heavy missiles. In all honesty, the painter makes it fairly devastating against anything it's size and smaller, and takes a healthy chunk out of any battlecruisers as well. I think it's important to remember the additional speed and mobility it has as a minnie ship as a significant advantage as well. Just my two cents but i honestly feel this ship performs very well as is. I'd happily match it up against a caracal with comparable value of fittings, and i often think of the cara as the 'benchmark uber cruiser' to compare against (again, personally). Altemi ~ Why is it those with the greatest responsibility to make good decisions so often seem the least capable or inclined?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.18 20:45:00 - [12] A 6th hi slot and 200 powergrid is all the Bellicose needs. TP bonus is a missile bonus...despite what CCP says. What Minnie actually lacks, is EW. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:10:00 - [13] Bump, because bellicosse needs something. Anything.. anythingn would make it better than its now. Currently its almost worst than the scythe! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:19:00 - [14] Edited by: Venkhar Krard on 19/12/2006 10:27:53 You can always change the TP bonus for a web range bonus.. and stay with the projectile rof, it would make it at last equal usefull to celestis and blackbird..
Excesse The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.19 10:42:00 - [15] Arktaos in 'concious thought' shocker. :D I love my bellicose but often feel that it's just not worth flying with respect to other ships, so this change would be very welcome.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Venkhar Krard Edited by: Venkhar Krard on 19/12/2006 10:27:53 You can always change the TP bonus for a web range bonus.. and stay with the projectile rof, it would make it at last equal usefull to celestis and blackbird.. That change (in fact changing all TP ships to web ships) would be HELLISH good. Don't need to be as good as a huggin. Like 7.5% would be enough per level. You would see lots of bellicoses around. Minmatar folks would give theirs first borns to CCP in gratitude. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.19 11:12:00 - [17] The Bellicose used to be the Minmatar long range sniping drone cruiser with missiles, but hardly anything resembling a tank. It rivaled the Arbitrator and the Vexor. Then it got hit with the nerf stick twice when missiles got balancing love and with the drone adjustment too, and all it got was the useless TP bonus. Most Bellicose setups run hardly nothing you can call a tank, assault missile launchers (yeah, those with light missiles) and guns. None of the usual weapon systems have anything to gain by a TP. Well, maybe the artillery guns, but then a webber would do a better job. Well, maybe Tux will finally come down with 'something sekseh' for the poor bastard ship without ny real purpose soon. He promised it nearly 2 years ago. For those pointing at the improvement to the phoon, just check the market history. The change did not make the phoon being sold any better. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2006.12.19 12:18:00 - [18] I like it, helps define a path from breacher to typhoon, nudges minmatar a tiny bit towards the shield tanking they wanted us to be and makes the ship that bit more attractive. . ----- It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Jeats Cheats Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2006.12.19 13:34:00 - [19] Another = 1 to this idea. It would be nice to have another option to the Rupture/Stabber line up, and I think that a missile weilding Bellicose would be exactly what we wanted.
sarabando Caldari Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:12:00 - [20] my first solo kill was in a bellicos :) its a great little ship
jerrard iceni Minmatar Knights of Chaos	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:30:00 - [21] Originally by: sarabando my first solo kill was in a bellicos :) its a great little ship /signed i also got my first solo pvp kill in this ship (a rupture) and is prob why its still one of my favourite ships. it does need some ccp loving tho
Alpine 69 Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2006.12.19 14:41:00 - [22] me, as a caldari/matar pilot, totally agree, the op is right /signed eeeeeeek my sig got nerfed again :(
Meditril	Posted - 2006.12.19 18:16:00 - [23] I really do not know what your problem is with the Belli. It's a very nice and cheap ship for ratting. Today I was able alone to take out spawn with 2 smaller BS and 3 Cruisers worth 1.300.000 ISK. I doubt that you can get any ship with a better ratio of damage to investment. My fitting: 3 Heavy Missls, 200mm Autocannon, Salvager Afterburner, 3 Large Shield Extenders (give you over 8000 SP) 2 Shield Relays, Nano-Fiber And naturally 4 medium drones. This should cost you not more than 5.000.000 ISK. Orbit at 28km and fly with AB at over 600m/s. Most gun-based cruisers or BS will not be able to hit you. Alternatively you can orbit without AB at 500m, its great against BS, since then you can use your autocannon too. Have fun, Meditril
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.19 18:38:00 - [24] I got my first PvP kill in a Bellicose too, course I was using 3 Inferno Torpedos. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Talasan The Bratwurst Burglars	Posted - 2006.12.19 20:25:00 - [25] nice post ark, all great suggestions im with ya! "minmatar got the shaft again? sure ill bend over right away"
Mr Monk	Posted - 2006.12.20 06:51:00 - [26] I too have had kills in the Bellicose. The OP's idea's I think would make it a better and therefore more useful ship.
Phelan Lore Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.20 06:58:00 - [27] 5% missile RoF, 5% velocity, 4 launchers... Sniggwaffe is recruiting
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.20 09:35:00 - [28] This last wont cut. Because bellicose is supposed to be the Ewar ship. Its the continuation of tehj Vigil. It needs a Ewar bonus. BUT target painters suck so much that the ship must be compsensated in anothe rform. GIve it some PG or speed, or better shieds. OR do anyone.. ANYONE can say with no remorse in the heart that a target painter ship is as usefull as a Dampener ship ? If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!

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