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Yockerbow
Aliastra Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2015.09.19 01:57:26 -
[1] - Quote
I recently got a new computer and therefore watched the intro movie for the first time in years. It includes a section where the capsuleer's consciousness is transferred from the original body, which dies. In EVE Source, this is also mentioned as one of the final steps in capsuleer training.
However, I'm curious as to where this came in. This was something mentioned off and on as part of their history by RP players, but until recently I don't recall it being part of canon.
In fact, it stands as a contradiction to prior fiction. The last series of Amarr heirs were all capsuleers, yet their Godflesh doctrine wouldn't allow the clone-transfer stage. In The Empyrean Age, it's mentioned that Korvin Lears was disoriented after his first combat death, when his new body lacked the scars and marks of his original. It also doesn't seem likely that Jacus Roden or Alexander Noir were ever subject to this sort of procedure.
Is this something that is being retroactively applied, or a procedure that is relatively new in New Eden (i.e., since the development of Templar tech)? |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2386
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Posted - 2015.09.19 03:01:54 -
[2] - Quote
It is new. EVE Source explicitly confirms that capsuleers have existed since before cloning was integrated to the pod, and previous dev responses to this topic have acknowledged that the requirement for euthanization is a new procedure used by the schools and was not required for earlier capsuleer graduates.
EVE Source, which is where the euthanization procedure was fully confirmed, is opened with a paragraph that says it describes the state of the universe "as of YC115". It also details that the euthanization procedure is an academic requirement rather than a physical one (all capsuleers get the implants and pilot their first pods in their original bodies. They only go through the euthanization after that as an exit exam required for official licensing). What this means is that even current, post-Source capsuleers can theoretically avoid it, by creatively finding ways around the requirement (bribes etc, or potentially religious exemptions in Amarr (especially for heirs)).
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
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Yockerbow
Aliastra Gallente Federation
41
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Posted - 2015.09.19 03:17:52 -
[3] - Quote
Thank you. I'm just getting back into exploring the fiction and trying to figure out what's new and what's retconned. I'll have to find those dev responses.
I knew the capsule tech pre-dated the cloning procedures (see: Jovian Wetgrave) but wasn't sure at what point in time the euthanization protocol came into play. The oldest capsuleers would obviously pre-date it, but as of Empyrean Age it still didn't seem to be standard/commonplace. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2387
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Posted - 2015.09.19 03:23:02 -
[4] - Quote
I view official integration into the game's lore as the beginning of it, personally. Ergo all characters made before the Origins trailer and EVE Source were licensed under the old requirements, while all since those sources would fall under the new ones.
Essentially, since the Origin trailer and EVE Source came out in YC 115, and those were the sources that properly canonized it, I personally consider YC 115 to be when those requirements came fully into effect.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
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CCP Falcon
12424
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Posted - 2015.10.01 00:04:23 -
[5] - Quote
Yup, the euthanization and transfer of consciousness is a new thing within the last 15 years that is indeed an academic "appreciation" of the process for the purpose of education.
That said, there's a few things to remember. For instance, if a capsuleer really wants to hold on to scars or other non-natural bodily features, such as tattoos and mods, then they're of course perfectly capable of doing so by requesting their cloning contractor ensures their clones are correctly developed. This is why some of our older NPCs such as Roden, Noir, Yanala Gariushi and many others bear tattoos, scars and other such marks.
Realistically, there's nothing stopping a capsuleer from having quite literally a PERFECT physical replica of their original meatbag that they can walk around in, scars, tattoos, knocked out teeth or whatever.
The capsule has been around for a long time, as has cloning. They were only successfully tied together back in YC104, so there was a long period before then where the tech was experimental. During this stage of the development of the capsule and the clone, the process was far longer, far more involved and included a lot of surgery for implant integration to be able to jack in to the capsule's systems.
This is why some of our NPCs are pretty old. They're in positions of power where they're well protected and are still in their original form. That said, some can also just choose to be old, I suppose.
The euthanization thing has been around since the first commercially licensed capsuleers were cut loose into the wild - YC105, the year after the capsule and clone were mated and the process was vastly simplified, becoming orders of magnitude more reliable.
Of course, as Samira has pointed out, there are certain, incredibly rare exceptions (such as an Imperial Heir or Heiress) where capsuleers may be permitted to opt for the surgery instead of euthanization. These are one in a million cases, however.
I suppose we've just never really talked about it until we released EVE: Source, given that the technical background on the capsule and the clone was so light. The article on the clone and capsule tech that's in Source is actually a pretty heavily abridged version of the full text due to space saving constraints, but there's a lot more fleshed out behind the scenes that goes further into depth that Delegate Zero and I co-wrote.
I'll look to see if we can release it in upcoming backstory projects that we're looking to put together :)
CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon
Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2398
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Posted - 2015.10.01 09:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Even Source though says that every capsuleer gets the implants surgically added to their original bodies (year 3 of training), and that they fly their first pods with their original bodies (in year 5). The euthanization thing is an additional process, used for certification only after everything else is finished. The surgery on the original body is always a thing even with the euth.
Also since when was it around since YC105? CCP Dropbear's post in 2011 said that it was new at least of then (YC113), and the addition to the new player experience didn't even stick around and was removed before Incarna launched, so it only actually popped up in an official form with the Origins trailer and Source.
CCP Dropbear wrote:Firstly, this is not a retcon. What that means is we've not suddenly defined what has happened in the last eight years. Instead, we're just defining how things work now (where "now" means, once Incarna's New Player Experience launches). I can't say where, how or when we'll bring that out in the canon, just that it's our intent to do so at some point, and make clear (beyond this forum post) that there was a change in the way capsuleers graduated.
We're doing this for one simple reason: We don't want to pull the rug out from underneath people with an unnecessary retcon. Simple as that. It's avoidable, so we're avoiding it.
This is something I've done a lot of reading on since I started as my character is one that would have left the program rather than undergo a voluntary euthanization. For Amarr characters especially it's a pretty big deal.
Yonis Ardishapur for Emperor
"Reclaim our Empire"
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Vollhov
Senators of Eridan Red Alliance
263
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Posted - 2015.10.01 10:02:17 -
[7] - Quote
Cloning Here very interesting, "scientific paper" about the cloning. In the article there are about the the transference of consciousness. Storing clone. And of course, profit. Article old but interesting. Who are interested about how it all began advise to read.
Thanks you -í-íP Falcon"that helped to quit EVE"
Jamyl the Great
CCP can never come up with such a character as Jamyl Sarum.
No love of the the project and imagination.
"All these wayward children." (c) Jamyl Sarum I
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Yockerbow
Aliastra Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2015.10.14 16:32:20 -
[8] - Quote
Thanks Falcon!
Also re: this:
CCP Falcon wrote: The article on the clone and capsule tech that's in Source is actually a pretty heavily abridged version of the full text due to space saving constraints, but there's a lot more fleshed out behind the scenes that goes further into depth that Delegate Zero and I co-wrote.
I'll look to see if we can release it in upcoming backstory projects that we're looking to put together :)
WTB EVE Source: Unabridged
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
768
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Posted - 2015.10.15 01:15:51 -
[9] - Quote
Yockerbow wrote:Thanks Falcon! Also re: this: CCP Falcon wrote: The article on the clone and capsule tech that's in Source is actually a pretty heavily abridged version of the full text due to space saving constraints, but there's a lot more fleshed out behind the scenes that goes further into depth that Delegate Zero and I co-wrote.
I'll look to see if we can release it in upcoming backstory projects that we're looking to put together :) WTB EVE Source: Unabridged
How about....Eve Online codices? One codex for every faction? Just like what Games Workshop did?
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
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Tavin Aikisen
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
367
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Posted - 2015.10.15 09:54:34 -
[10] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Just like what Games Workshop did?
You're treading a fine line when we say things like that...
"Remember this. Trust your eyes, you will kill each other. Trust your veins, you can all go home."
-Cold Wind
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