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Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2015.09.22 03:14:31 -
[31] - Quote
Nothing you can do in regards of a war dec is a bannable offense in EvE - or better to say "nothing that's a bug abuse can get you banned".
If you get war decced, let's say, because you have a pos, you can tear down the pos in the 24h grace time and put it up again when the war is over; to put a tiny dampen on this, ccp made it so a corp needs to be 7 days old to deploy a pos. You can drop your corp and join another, you can actually en-mass drop corp and join another containing the same people as before, and that wont make you banned. You cannot change corp, you have to quit the corp and then join another, and it's not a bug abuse. What you cannot do, but just because the game doesn't allow it with a clear error message, it's the transfer of a poco ownership after you get war decced, even during the grace period.
You might want to split your alts in two corps, or at least have an alt in an inconspicuous corp to redeploy your pos asap, and have at least one neutral (npc corp alt) for hauling and general logistic (neutral repping alts).
The error most people do is to consider high sec as the bearland, where people are shielded from brutal pvp, actually high sec is as dangerous as any other space, just it has a number of tiny rules to respect before making proper engagements. Also the high density of population in most of high sec make picking target easy, mainly because in high sec you cannot avoid to feel safe behind concord, which is not true, and once the bureaucracy of the engagement is done, you are alone with your war dec.
Also for the people that said "i used my dread in empire", you might want to clarify you used your dread in low sec empire, which is low sec, not empire. Empire is high sec, and caps are not allowed in high sec. And not having dreads in empire is what's really protecting pos and poco from a daily grind, not the war decs mechanics. An online medium pos with hardeners takes hours to grind even in battleship / battlecruisers, same with pocos, and for what? If you go bash an online pos in empire you must be sure it's worth your time, both in drop and killmail, otherwise grab your catalyst and go gank some machinaws, it's faster, get you better killmail and a full machinaw can contain up to 15mil isk of ores, which doesn't hurt to steal since you are at it.
To conclude from my first hand experience, do what you can do avoid empire wars, they are often one sided battles as you lack the intel and the coordination to put up a proper defense, and you got war decced probably you got deemed to be an easy target, and probably you are if you live in empire and you don't pvp war dec newbye corps or gank stuff in catalysts. In null the enemy is a bit more clear, you have intels, FC, roams and in game chat channels, and you are actually prepared doctrine wise and ship wise to pvp. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
661
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Posted - 2015.09.22 03:18:27 -
[32] - Quote
Dreads are allowed in highsec only if the owner had them there before the change, I thought? And they are prohibited from using them, hence the necessity of using BS for POS bashing.
With respect to actual gameplay, they are not allowed in highsec. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26203
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Posted - 2015.09.22 03:24:51 -
[33] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote: Also for the people that said "i used my dread in empire", you might want to clarify you used your dread in low sec empire, which is low sec, not empire.
Lowest is empire space. Anything that is under empire sovereignty is empire space GÇö this means (almost) everything except nullsec.
So no clarification needed; they used their dreads in empire space.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
662
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Posted - 2015.09.22 03:31:41 -
[34] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote: Also for the people that said "i used my dread in empire", you might want to clarify you used your dread in low sec empire, which is low sec, not empire.
Lowest is empire space. Anything that is under empire sovereignty is empire space GÇö this means (almost) everything except nullsec. So no clarification needed; they used their dreads in empire space.
Pretty sure OP is discussing highsec, based on the whole of his remarks. I think you're clever enough to recognize that. No need to play semantics games.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
662
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Posted - 2015.09.22 03:37:48 -
[35] - Quote
To the larger discussion -
Highsec is chock full of bored bittervets and their alts (99% of wardec corps and gankers) looking for easy content (people who have no knowledge of the game beyond lasering rocks and levelling their mission boat.) If you are trying to run a corp of any size without a full understanding of both the game and the meta-game, you are easy content and any new or casual player who joins is being led like a lamb to slaughter. If you don't want to contend with PvP, drop to an NPC corp or run a low key one max tax shelter and roll corp/log off when wardecced. If you want to actually build a real corporation and lead others, you need to learn to survive in the present environment.
It is true that highsec industrial corps serve no purpose other than to be targets, and that is something which needs to be addressed. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26203
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Posted - 2015.09.22 03:45:59 -
[36] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Pretty sure OP is discussing highsec, based on the whole of his remarks. I think you're clever enough to recognize that. No need to play semantics games. Maybe, but then he should say GÇ£highsecGÇ¥, not GÇ£empireGÇ¥ GÇö they are not synonymous. He should also not use the dichotomy of empire and null over and over, since if he really means highsec, it's actually a polychotomy between null, low, high (and possibly w-space if you want to see it as separate from null).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics CODE.
330
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 04:12:45 -
[37] - Quote
I'm not a fan of long rambling incoherent nonsense rants.
Your accusation that we war decers and gankers routinely abuse mechanics has just earnt you a spot on the red pen list.
I would like an apology and retraction, we didn't claim that your idea was abuse, why would you not extend your opponents the same courtesy, except that you are blinded by your irrational hate? |
Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space No Points Necessary
894
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Posted - 2015.09.22 04:14:01 -
[38] - Quote
So....OP......
Can I haz your stuff? |
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1523
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Posted - 2015.09.22 05:07:58 -
[39] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:Dreads are allowed in highsec only if the owner had them there before the change, I thought? And they are prohibited from using them, hence the necessity of using BS for POS bashing.
With respect to actual gameplay, they are not allowed in highsec.
Well you can mine with one, Cribba did for ages.
You cannot legally obtain one though. If someone with an existing grandfathered highsec cap wants to sell it they need to move it out of highsec first.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
662
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Posted - 2015.09.22 08:16:47 -
[40] - Quote
Tisiphone Dira wrote:I'm not a fan of long rambling incoherent nonsense rants.
Your accusation that we war decers and gankers routinely abuse mechanics has just earnt you a spot on the red pen list.
I would like an apology and retraction, we didn't claim that your idea was abuse, why would you not extend your opponents the same courtesy, except that you are blinded by your irrational hate?
So...is Globby still solo-hyperdunking freighters while tanking CONCORD with shuttle spam? Only took CCP about a week to put a stop to that, but I imagine he's hard at working looking for new loopholes.
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o0kaboom0o
Bikini Bottom Ultras
0
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Posted - 2015.09.22 08:18:09 -
[41] - Quote
If you want start playing the real Eve you should leave high sec and figure out it is ****. High sec is the place where you stay the first weeks. So please continue to nerf it CCP. Thanks. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6808
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 09:30:59 -
[42] - Quote
Yockerbow wrote:EVE is a PVP game; deal with it. It's sad that people like you say this yet don't understand what it actually means. It doesn't for example mean "Everything should be easier for people who wish to blow other people up with lasers". PvP comes in many forms, and if the only focus of CCP is catering to the "elite" neckbeards that go after easy kills to buff their killboards, then the game will run into serious problems.
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Roney Strongarm
Aven's Flight School
3
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Posted - 2015.09.22 11:24:15 -
[43] - Quote
Tisiphone Dira wrote:I'm not a fan of long rambling incoherent nonsense rants.
Your accusation that we war decers and gankers routinely abuse mechanics has just earnt you a spot on the red pen list.
I would like an apology and retraction, we didn't claim that your idea was abuse, why would you not extend your opponents the same courtesy, except that you are blinded by your irrational hate?
Ok, here's one for you. So you are in a ship, you get attacked. You jump ship, the target lock breaks. Now you are in a pod and while the opponent is trying to lock you, you jump into another ship. The whole time you are engaged.
This isn't a mechanic, it's an exploit. And when CCP was brought to its attention they said this:
"We didn't mean for this to be a mechanic, but it's an unforseen part of the game. If it's there, then feel free to use it with no consequence from us."
Basically:
"Go ahead PVP'ers, nuke them".
Is that the evidence you are looking for? There are other types of uses of "exploits" going on. It's not an accusation, it's a reality. You don't need to go getting all bent up over it. We all use exploits in some way or another, even mission runners.
What I sad is not so much a "I'm accusing you therefore you are a D-bag". What I'm saying is "If you can do it, why can't I?" |
Roney Strongarm
Aven's Flight School
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 11:29:18 -
[44] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:Nothing you can do in regards of a war dec is a bannable offense in EvE - or better to say "nothing that's a bug abuse can get you banned".
If you get war decced, let's say, because you have a pos, you can tear down the pos in the 24h grace time and put it up again when the war is over; to put a tiny dampen on this, ccp made it so a corp needs to be 7 days old to deploy a pos. You can drop your corp and join another, you can actually en-mass drop corp and join another containing the same people as before, and that wont make you banned. You cannot change corp, you have to quit the corp and then join another, and it's not a bug abuse. What you cannot do, but just because the game doesn't allow it with a clear error message, it's the transfer of a poco ownership after you get war decced, even during the grace period.
Thank you. This is the answer I was looking for. So to clarify, I can disban a corp as many times as I wish in order to break a wardec, and then reform a corp as many times as I wish, without getting banned?
And to further this, I can help others break their war decs and help them reform their corps without getting banned?
Also, I don't know what a POCO is. Not sure what you mean by transfering it. I'm assuming you are talking about some sort of structure.
And yes, by "empire" I did mean "highsec". So to clarify THAT, I am talking about 'HIGH SEC". |
Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics CODE.
332
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 11:39:21 -
[45] - Quote
Roney Strongarm wrote:
Ok, here's one for you. So you are in a ship, you get attacked. You jump ship, the target lock breaks. Now you are in a pod and while the opponent is trying to lock you, you jump into another ship. The whole time you are engaged.
This isn't a mechanic, it's an exploit. And when CCP was brought to its attention they said this:
"We didn't mean for this to be a mechanic, but it's an unforseen part of the game. If it's there, then feel free to use it with no consequence from us."
Basically:
"Go ahead PVP'ers, nuke them".
"Go ahead carebears, swap out of that hulk just in time." It's not like the bears don't use this 'exploit'
And where did CCP say that?
That almost exact situation has happened to me before a few times, you don't see me crying about the miners exploiting this game mechanic. Those miners are fun, I had a good chat with them, I even made a friend. Why isn't that what you did? |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2019
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Posted - 2015.09.22 11:51:17 -
[46] - Quote
And people wonder why devs dont interact here much.
Jesus christ what a trainwreck of an OP. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6808
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 12:37:56 -
[47] - Quote
Roney Strongarm wrote:Thank you. This is the answer I was looking for. So to clarify, I can disban a corp as many times as I wish in order to break a wardec, and then reform a corp as many times as I wish, without getting banned?
And to further this, I can help others break their war decs and help them reform their corps without getting banned? Yes. This is not and has never been against the rules regardless of what some of the wardeccing groups claim.
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Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
1041
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Posted - 2015.09.22 12:57:08 -
[48] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Roney Strongarm wrote:Thank you. This is the answer I was looking for. So to clarify, I can disban a corp as many times as I wish in order to break a wardec, and then reform a corp as many times as I wish, without getting banned?
And to further this, I can help others break their war decs and help them reform their corps without getting banned? Yes. This is not and has never been against the rules regardless of what some of the wardeccing groups claim.
Open a support ticket under exploits and ask ccp directly they are and will always be the only one who can give you a answer.
I have never heard of anyone being banned for disbanding a Corp to doge a wardec
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Roberta Gastoni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2015.09.22 13:05:51 -
[49] - Quote
Roney Strongarm wrote:Roberta Gastoni wrote:Nothing you can do in regards of a war dec is a bannable offense in EvE - or better to say "nothing that's a bug abuse can get you banned".
If you get war decced, let's say, because you have a pos, you can tear down the pos in the 24h grace time and put it up again when the war is over; to put a tiny dampen on this, ccp made it so a corp needs to be 7 days old to deploy a pos. You can drop your corp and join another, you can actually en-mass drop corp and join another containing the same people as before, and that wont make you banned. You cannot change corp, you have to quit the corp and then join another, and it's not a bug abuse. What you cannot do, but just because the game doesn't allow it with a clear error message, it's the transfer of a poco ownership after you get war decced, even during the grace period.
Thank you. This is the answer I was looking for. So to clarify, I can disban a corp as many times as I wish in order to break a wardec, and then reform a corp as many times as I wish, without getting banned? And to further this, I can help others break their war decs and help them reform their corps without getting banned? Also, I don't know what a POCO is. Not sure what you mean by transfering it. I'm assuming you are talking about some sort of structure. And yes, by "empire" I did mean "highsec". So to clarify THAT, I am talking about 'HIGH SEC".
You cannot disband a corp under a war dec due to game mechanics, you can leave that corp to return a npc corp, and instantly join or create a new corp. If none is left in the old corp, the corp will be considered closed, its name wont be freed up and none will be able to join it ever again.
POCO are Player Owned Custom Office(s), they took the place of npc corp, namely Interbus, Custom Offices. In some regions are worth a lot due to the high traffic and player density, in remote region often you wont make the cost of the gantry out of 6 month of import export taxes, therefore worthless. Killing a POCO is a massive grind, at least in high sec where you cannot field dreads, for little to no gain, unless you gain is pissing off the owner.
To clarify in the end, for how much I don't like the act of ganking, as it's a form of unilateral pvp experience mainly due to the lack of real defensive fittings on the freighters, CODE. is not performing any known exploit while ganking; even Hyperdunking is not an exploit, as CCP Falcon explained in a post. The only bannable offense they might perform is avoid the loss of their ship by concord hands and the loss of sec status from the kill. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6808
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 14:17:42 -
[50] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:even Hyperdunking is not an exploit, as CCP Falcon explained in a post. It's only "not an exploit" because CCP decided to make it so. That doesn't mean that it wasn't a shockingly bad decision to decide that a clear violation of previous ruling should be allowed so that some players can have an easy time solo ganking when they can't find friends.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26209
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Posted - 2015.09.22 14:28:34 -
[51] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:It's only "not an exploit" because CCP decided to make it so. GǪsame as with all other legal gameplay.
It's not even a particularly strange decision since it doesn't violate any of the critical rules that turn stuff into an exploit. No mechanics are being bypassed; no bugs are being used; no punishment is skipped; nothing is made easier than it otherwise would be; no balance is thrown out of whack. All it does is take the rules and mechanics and use them to its advantage.
It's not an exploit for the same reason can mining and web slinging is not an exploit.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Outlawd
Evian Industries EVIAN NATION
23
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Posted - 2015.09.22 14:33:12 -
[52] - Quote
This thread.... |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6808
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 14:38:59 -
[53] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:It's only "not an exploit" because CCP decided to make it so. GǪsame as with all other legal gameplay. It's not even a particularly strange decision since it doesn't violate any of the critical rules that turn stuff into an exploit. No mechanics are being bypassed; no bugs are being used; no punishment is skipped; nothing is made easier than it otherwise would be; no balance is thrown out of whack. All it does is take the rules and mechanics and use them to its advantage. It's not an exploit for the same reason can mining and web slinging is not an exploit. It's a bit different. For starters, the old rule was:
"If you gain a Global Criminal Countdown by committing an illegal action in high security space, it is considered an exploit to attack a target after you warp away from the grid, or warp within the same grid, where you gained that GCC; even if you later return to that grid while still affected by that GCC."
This clearly does exactly this, it's all about warping back and forth to pull concord about.
But mainly, it's different because web slinging is about getting more ships to interact. Hyperdunking is about taking a type of activity that used to require a number of players and turning it into a easily multiboxed activity with a very small number of characters required. If they said "people can now web their own ship" for example, I'd see that as a bad move too since it reduces character interaction. It's also for this exact reason that incursions and mining should be significantly harder to multibox. Group activities should encourage groups.
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Carpe Noctem. Pandemic Legion
2491
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 14:41:12 -
[54] - Quote
Roney Strongarm wrote:....carebear tears... The biggest mistake CCP ever made was in being a great burger shop with a great burger story, trying to sell tofu or salads to vegans in the first place.
The size of hisec & content therein should be greatly reduced, so that critical mass can finally be reached in a game that after 12+ years continues to suffer from stagnant (and declining?) player numbers.
Making hisec safer and adding content over the years simply hasn't yielded a player-base panacea, although big raw-meat fights like BR-5 and Asakai showed us the direction we should be heading in.
The sooner CCP makes hisec a tiny 'ready room' to get into losec and null, the sooner EvE can finally be all that it should be and reach critical mass.
This will never happen, because of carebear (and null alt incursion runner) tears, but its what *needs* to happen.
F
Would you like to know more?
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12432
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 14:42:53 -
[55] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:It's only "not an exploit" because CCP decided to make it so.
Gasp, the owners of the IP made a decision about something they own even though Lucas Kell doesn't like it. Someone call the authorities immediately!
In EVE, CCP word is literally law. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
25111
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Posted - 2015.09.22 14:43:07 -
[56] - Quote
Roberta Gastoni wrote:You cannot disband a corp under a war dec due to game mechanics, you can leave that corp to return a npc corp, and instantly join or create a new corp. If none is left in the old corp, the corp will be considered closed, its name wont be freed up and none will be able to join it ever again. Incorrect, you can disband a corp at any time for any reason including wardecs; everybody leaves and the CEO quits, the corp is closed and the wardec drops. The corp name is freed up the moment the old corp is closed, ergo you can create a new one instantly with the exact same name and probably the same ticker.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12432
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Posted - 2015.09.22 14:44:37 -
[57] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Roney Strongarm wrote:....carebear tears... The biggest mistake CCP ever made was in being a great burger shop with a great burger story, trying to sell tofu or salads to vegans in the first place.
No no no! I haven't on good forum authority that CCP should cater to everyone, even those who don't like EVE, hate space and spaceships, and don't care for conflict even though the central tenet of the game is conflict.
Damn it Feyd, get with the program lol. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26211
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Posted - 2015.09.22 14:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:It's a bit different. For starters, the old rule was: Old. As in deprecated. As in no longer applicable. As in irrelevant. As in patched out. It also related to the exact opposite of what hyperdunking does.
You might as well cite the old rule of how it was illegal to resist GMs flying concord ships.
Quote:This clearly does exactly this, it's all about warping back and forth to pull concord about. GǪexcept that that's not what the ruling is about. It's about how you're not allowed to evade CONCORD by warping off and then coming back to keep shooting. Since that was patched out, and since hyperdunking relies on not evading CONCORD, the ruling is simply not relevant unless you can find a bug in the system to replicate the old situation (in which case, guess what GÇöyou're exploiting a bug and you're evading CONCORD).
Quote:But mainly, it's different because web slinging is about getting more ships to interact. So is hyperdunking. It requires a lot more ships to pull off than a regular gank.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6809
|
Posted - 2015.09.22 15:13:52 -
[59] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Old. As in deprecated. As in no longer applicable. As in irrelevant. As in patched out. It also related to the exact opposite of what hyperdunking does. Old as in not new. Old things aren't automatically deprecated.
Tippia wrote:GǪexcept that that's not what the ruling is about. Only if you have comprehension issues. The ruling was simple. Don't return to grids you got your GCC on after warping away. That it was originally put in place because of a different exploit is irrelevant, much like how if a new method of bumping players out of a POS without a password is found, it would still be an exploit.
Tippia wrote:So is hyperdunking. It requires a lot more ships to pull off than a regular gank. As in piloted by different players... Being deliberately obtuse doesn't help you out friend. Simply put, do you think it's a good thing for mechanics to evolve to require less players to take part?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
26213
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Posted - 2015.09.22 15:30:50 -
[60] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Old as in not new. Old things aren't automatically deprecated. Not automatically, no, but this one is old as in deprecated none the less.
Quote:Only if you have comprehension issues. The ruling was simple. Yes it was. It outlawed evasion or delaying of CONCORD retribution through boomeranging. Boomeranging was then patched out, deprecating the ruling. If you manage to boomerang now, you'll be slapped with an exploit notice, not because you returned to the scene of the crime, but because you exploited a bug and evaded CONCORD.
Hyperganking is the exact opposite of boomeranging. Boomeranging was an evasion of CONCORD. Hyerganking does not evade CONCORD. Only if you do not comprehend the full ruling, ignore the context, and ignore what happened afterwards can you even begin to foster the hallucination that the ruling should remotely apply.
Quote:As in piloted by different players. Moving the goalposts, eh? Oh, and web slinging reduces the interaction between players by the way, so presumably it's an exploit, yes?
Quote:do you think it's a good thing for mechanics to evolve to require less players to take part? If a single player, with the appropriate effort and difficulty, can replicate what normally requires two dozen people, then that's a good thing for mechanics, yes.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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