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Rifter vs a Caracal

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Bazil Thred	Posted - 2006.12.20 15:39:00 - [1] Edited by: Bazil Thred on 20/12/2006 15:41:13 Still trying to learn my limits. Having fun engaging other Frigs lately, but I came across a Caracal ratting this morning, I stalked him from scanner range as he predictably moved thru the Asteroid fields. My question is would he have been a realistic target. Frig vs Cruiser seemed like a death wish at the time. If it matters I was running: 3 AC 150's, Malkuth Rocket launcher (EMPs, Phalanx) 1MN AB, Shield Booster, 7500 Warp Scrambler Small AR, 100 Steel plate, Gyro vs whatever an average Ratting setup on a Cruiser would be. Any chance at a take down like that?
Akane Miyamoto Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.20 15:42:00 - [2] Ditch the rocket launcher for NOS, shield booster for web, and get a 200mm tungsten for starters.. And yes, you could've prolly taken him out easily. Tho if he had even one nos he would've drained you because you didn't have a nos yourself to run your scrammer --------------------------------------------------
Caleb Paine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.20 15:45:00 - [3] commit to either shield or armor tanking, not both. -------------------------------- ISS Navy Task Force; Protecting your interest.
Lanfear's Bane Shih Yang Tong	Posted - 2006.12.20 15:49:00 - [4] Originally by: Bazil Thred Edited by: Bazil Thred on 20/12/2006 15:41:13 Still trying to learn my limits. Having fun engaging other Frigs lately, but I came across a Caracal ratting this morning, I stalked him from scanner range as he predictably moved thru the Asteroid fields. My question is would he have been a realistic target. Frig vs Cruiser seemed like a death wish at the time. If it matters I was running: 3 AC 150's, Malkuth Rocket launcher (EMPs, Phalanx) 1MN AB, Shield Booster, 7500 Warp Scrambler Small AR, 100 Steel plate, Gyro vs whatever an average Ratting setup on a Cruiser would be. Any chance at a take down like that? I wouldn't chance it myself, possibly not even in a Wolf or Jaguar. Five assault missiles pounding you can really hurt. A web and two small t2 lite drones are also possibilities you need to take into consideration and like the dude above me said, possibly a nos. Caracals can be setup quite nicely with very weak SP for defending against a frig. Not a good Risk vs. Reward IMO. Lanfear's Bane. - - - - - - - - - - - Got Killboard?
Stakhanov Gallente Newbies On Xstacy	Posted - 2006.12.20 16:11:00 - [5] Odds are the lowsec ratting caracal would use heavy missiles instead of assault launchers. Which means you won't take so much damage from them. However , your chances will be much lower if he uses a webber. Of course , you will need EM ammo to get through his shield tank. It's a fair gamble , especially if you catch him before the belt rats are popped.
Bazil Thred	Posted - 2006.12.20 16:14:00 - [6] I understand the need for NoS, will have it trained by today. I did end up trying him and I got his shields to 50% before he broke thru mine and statred on armor. Power was a huge issue and I see the necessity of NoS now. Luckily he was set up for ratting like I figured and could not Web or scramble me when I broke off. I think with NoS I could maybe have whittled him down, but still would have been tough. Is the EMP/Phalanx ok ammo, I kinda just grabbed whatever as I was still learning. Also would the webber have mattered on him if I had one...he definately wasn't outrunning me was he, or does slowing him down still help targeting and such. Sorry for the million questions, trying to learn as much as I can.
Damien Smith ExScape	Posted - 2006.12.20 16:15:00 - [7] Edited by: Damien Smith on 20/12/2006 16:16:30 Originally by: Lanfear's Bane Not a good Risk vs. Reward IMO. I disagree. The loss of a rifter + fittings vs the chance to take down a cruiser that's not fitted for pvp, already occupied with rats is an acceptable risk. Not to mention the fact that the OP would get such a rush from taking down a cruiser in a frig. I'd say he'd have a very good chance of taking him out and could always run away if things went sour. Edit: also if the target was in say gallente space he'd probably be doing thermal damage, and not tanking em, which he'd get owned by and the OP conveniently had in his hold. ----------- Join channel 'ExScape' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
Intigo Amarr Short Attention Span	Posted - 2006.12.20 17:03:00 - [8] All depends on the pilot. An inexperienced Caracal pilot vs any frigate with a somewhat decent tank + 1 NOS actually puts you at pretty good odds - my Punisher always enjoyed fighting them, it was a Caracal fight that inspired me to make my thread after all. :) I would definetly go for it, you have everything to gain and very little to lose. Follow the fitting suggestions put in the thread already, though. -- Piewat! Low SP piracy Now with more stories and small clips!
Sun Win Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2006.12.20 18:33:00 - [9] Edited by: Sun Win on 20/12/2006 18:36:33 When I was hunting in a Punisher, Caracals were always "oh good, candy" when I saw them. I'd jump in on a Caracal without giving it a second thought. PvP fitted Caracals might be deadly, but the overwhelming majority of Caracal pilots that I encountered were unprepared and weirdly equipped and generally good targets. I even once fought 2 Caracals, killing one and then not quite making it to the other before he warped away. Mind you with the Punisher I'm hiding safely behind many yummy resists so maybe a Rifter would have been different? Also, who cares? It's a Rifter! Fly it in, get it blown up and warp off in your pod and buy another. If you manage to ransom one Caracal for 2 million ( a very reasonable price) that'll cover like 6 Rifters + Fittings. New to Eve? Learn to Fly - join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Exogene	Posted - 2006.12.20 18:44:00 - [10] Won't make any difference if a caracal webs you or not, all it will do is mess up the tracking of its drones.
Christopher Dalran	Posted - 2006.12.20 18:46:00 - [11] Pairs of frigates each with 1 sb do prety good against carcals. Decide who is getting shot at and just have the other pilot intercept the missiles with his SB. Alternatly you can orbit close and just stagger the 2 and catch most of the missiles if you pay attention to when he shoots and time your smartbombs properly.
Gant Stryker AWE Corporation Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2006.12.20 21:31:00 - [12] Caracal is an interesting ship. If its set up as a ratter: using heavy missiles, you know its damage type and tank, etc. then yes, a rifter could have a decent chance. If it's pvp setup, then likely its fitted out for anti-frig warfare. Assault launchers, t2 precision missiles, 2 drones and a pretty good passive tank. These setups shred frigates, both t1 and t2. If its a ratter and things get out of hand you can likely flee, but a pvp carcal will have some tackle, 20k scram is my favorite. You wont survive out of fight range to run range in a rifter. But the rifter is cheap, easy to fit, and does great daamge so why not give it a try? [url=http://www.civis-killboard.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=65900] [/url]
T'Renn Vale Heavy Industries	Posted - 2006.12.20 23:55:00 - [13] The only time I bother worrying about a caracal is if it's got ECM. Otherwise they die to one of my assault frig pretties every time - especially a jag or vengeance.
Thaelan Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.20 23:58:00 - [14] i wouldnt go for a cara inna rifter, but it'd be doable if the cara was a noob n u knew what u were doing, unless it was set with assults, then u'd probly just die
Rixsta Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.21 00:38:00 - [15] Used to solo NPC'ing Caracals regularly when i used to use the rifter within my first couple of weeks, it's only when they have assault missiles or REALLY know what they're doing does it hurt... But my setup which never failed me was: 3x150mm AC 1x Rocket Launcher 1xAB 1x7.5km Scrammer 1x Small Cap Booster (cap booster 150's in) 1x200m Plate 1x Small Armor Rep 1x Gyro The injector saved me soooo much, often kept the rept going under Nos fire and keep them pinned down... whenever caracals had heavy's i used to rep back all my armor between the long cycles of missiles. The webber isn't really needed, NPC'ers are stupid, if they have the sense to move out of web range they would have seen you in local and safespotted well before you got there and if they know how to move out of range then they would of owned you whatever, more than likely. The Rifter is unbeatable in noob pilot cruiser ganking, and trust me theres alot around. Just be careful of drone ships... even stupid people can kill you with drones. the beauty with shield tankers i you can predict the outcome of the fight almost straight away, if you're landing pathteic hits and hes first wave of missiles clears your shields and abit of your armor, its time you got out and warp... the beauty is most NPC'ers dont carry scrams, so unless they one volley you, you can usually get out in a frig. Tired and going to bed, can't be bothered to check for typo's.... -----------------------
Xsag Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2006.12.21 15:05:00 - [16] mmmmz this really is the beauty of rigs isnt it tho - when the prices come down a bit more you just never know what they are fitted with :-) ~n00b of all trades~ ~~Airkio~~ / ~~Muvolailen~~ ~if im posting on here its cos im in work~
Saint Bubba Minmatar S.Y.N.D.R.O.M.E.	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:19:00 - [17] Edited by: Saint Bubba on 04/01/2007 00:20:31 Edited by: Saint Bubba on 04/01/2007 00:19:04 If I see any cruiser in npc fittings I own it. Only when they are pvp fitted can they take me but if they are npc ratting its an easy kill :) Orbit at 500 web, afterburner too get close 7.5km 2 point scrambler. and the rest, try to figure out yourself ;) Good luck and the rifter is best frig in game in my opinion ;)Once you get it down prepare for ownage! P.s. I got 15 kills this week in my rifter alot were solo against cruisers ;) Including a hac lol :)
Ildryn Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:26:00 - [18] Ive killed Caracals in my Incursus......3 electron blasters ab/web/7.5kscram 200mm rolled tungsten and small armor repairor 1 em drone Take down most cruisers in it....though dont bother with a blaster boat Thorax/Vexor will own you
ReePeR McAllem Amarr The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.04 01:37:00 - [19] Yeah it's really not hard to kill an npc fitted caracal, if somebody is ratting in 0.4 in a caracal 9 times out of 10 they're noobs. My fondest memory was killing a Punisher & Caracal Duo in my tech 2 fitted punisher. They called me a cheater, it was a great laugh.
Scapula	Posted - 2007.01.04 01:50:00 - [20] My brother and I have been pirating in Rifters for the past few days. We've dropped a Vexor and a Caracal so far together, and I've managed to take out a Moa as well as some frigs and destroyers. The kicker: both of our characters are five days old. I've been using 3x 200mm autocannons (EMP), Rocket Launcher (Foxfire) 1MN AB, 7.5 Scram, "Langour" Webber SAR, Damage Control, Capacitor Power Relay It's a cheap frig with a cheap setup. If you think there's the slightest chance you can win, go for it.
Dregena Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.04 03:07:00 - [21] If you catch him im middle of engaging the rats im sure you would be able to take him down. Well it worked with me.
Revona	Posted - 2007.01.04 04:10:00 - [22] A caracal ratting will likely have medium-class guns equiped, or heavies in this case. Likely no web, likely but not 100% sure an AB. Now, personaly I flew a punisher frig. But against heavy missiles, no web, it was just a matter of waiting. I had a thight orbit, high transversal, I believe 3-4 cap relays, a nos and lasers. I could easily power my repper and keep my armor at 100%, simply as the transversal, and thight orbit, and your low sig radius mean you're taking little to no damage. Now I'm in a maller with small-class lasers fitted. A web, as I'm PvPing, scram, AB etc. I'd rip up a rifter or punisher, as I'm built for it. But that caracal you saw you prolly could've pwnt.
Plaetean Remnants of Times olde	Posted - 2007.01.04 04:15:00 - [23] Don't forget a caracal will likely not have a scram, even less likely a web too; if you can see that you're going to go down before he is, warp out, or ab out of scram range then warp out (Even if he did have both those 2 mods, his tank should be weak enough for you to break anyway), so I'd say go for it. Plus from my experience when pirating ratters, they are so dumbfounded that someone other than an NPC is shooting them, you can have their shields down before they even react sometimes. Even if you had lost a t1 frig and fittings, the experience gained would be easily worth the isk lost. I need a sig
Superbus Maximus Gallente Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.04 08:27:00 - [24] Ive seen a rifter take down an apoc solo, don't believe me look up one of Phaelen's vids its on one of them. So yes it is possible to take out much larger targets than yourself. If: A. The player is dumb. B. Not fitted properly C. Or just not paying attention. Ha you think thats big wait till you see the next
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2007.01.04 08:38:00 - [25] The important thing here is that the Caracal is the newbie cruiser of choice. For low-skill NPC-ers, it's the perfect ship, and you get a lot of Caracal pilots who can't really fly the ship properly. And when they take it into combat... There's really three kinds of Caracals out there: 1) Your average newbie Caracal, set for the local NPC types, poor support skills, forgotten drone bay, etc. It's a paper thin loot can with engines, fire at will and hope they bought some nice launchers. Your average pvp ship will just rip these apart in seconds. 2) The good pvp Caracal pilots. They're rare (most pvp-ers prefer different ships), and they're one of the worst sights a frigate pilot could see on his overview. Heavy missiles are bad enough (expect precision IV and T2 light drones in support), but if you see one solo odds are he's going frigate hunting. And that means 5x assaults with precision light missiles... say goodbye to your frigate. 3) The good pvp Caracal pilots with tackler backup. These are nasty. Once you're warp scrambled, you've got good DPS incoming on your lowest resist, and he's well outside your gun range (over 100km, for the heavy missile setups). Used properly, the Caracal pilot is suddenly free to use every one of his ship's devastating advantages: unbeatable range, good ewar potential, and enough tank to hold off a fair bit of damage if you manage to land some hits. So the basic rule is just to check the character's employment history, and you'll know which type you're facing. Just keep in mind that missiles are second only to drones in their ability to hit lower-class targets. You'll get a damage reduction, but even heavy missiles will still get some damage through. So it all comes down to offense, go for the kill and rip open the newbie's tissue-paper defenses before he can land the lethal blow.
ReePeR McAllem Amarr The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.05 03:44:00 - [26] Edited by: ReePeR McAllem on 05/01/2007 03:49:30 Originally by: Superbus Maximus Ive seen a rifter take down an apoc solo, don't believe me look up one of Phaelen's vids its on one of them. So yes it is possible to take out much larger targets than yourself. If: A. The player is dumb. B. Not fitted properly C. Or just not paying attention. Hehe awsome, reminds me of a time when a Geddon fully t2 fitted thought he'd pop me at a gate in .4 he locked me I waited for him to get sent aggro and then just orbited him at 15km he couldnt get a single hit even without mwd and a speed of like 400m/s. ofc I lost the killmail, the sents did most if the work afterall. In the wise words of Mr T "That suckah was a fool!!" And there's plenty others in the world of eve Edit: oops forgot to say, I was in my t1 fitted BM maker variant Punisher

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