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Semiconductor Memory Cell on Capitals?

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Bailey Banks Caldari Feet Of Clay Inc	Posted - 2006.12.21 03:52:00 - [1] Has anyone tried the Semiconductor Memory Cell rig on capital ships yet? Since there's no Capital Capacitor Battery, or even extra large, seems like this would blow everything else away for boosting the total cap on a Dreadnought. 15% of a Dread's capacitor is what, about 10-12K?
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.21 04:00:00 - [2] Why would you ever want to take 15% capacitor capacity over 15% capacitor recharge? --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
aeti Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.21 04:15:00 - [3] Originally by: Hllaxiu Why would you ever want to take 15% capacitor capacity over 15% capacitor recharge? gank ships vs sustained combat
nthexwn Amarr	Posted - 2006.12.21 04:25:00 - [4] Originally by: Hllaxiu Why would you ever want to take 15% capacitor capacity over 15% capacitor recharge? I've been under the impression that capacitor recharge looks something like this (Pulled from RL): The x-axis being how much cap there is in %, and the y-axis being the recharge rate in # that you get with that much cap. If this is the case, then wouldn't increasing the maximum cap by 15% simply stretch the graph on the y-axis so that you'd be getting 15% more cap at every point on the curve? Now take the same graph and pretend the x-axis is how much cap is left numerically, and have the y-axis represent the % of your cap that regenerates per second at that point on the curve (similar to graphing acceleration). Wouldn't boosting the regen rate also stretch the graph along the y-axis since that's what it's representing in this case? The actual shape of the graph is not changed between these scenarios, so having a 15% cap bonus or a 15% regen bonus would result in the exact same thing. The only difference being that the cap bonus would give you extra cap on top of the regen. I'm fairly certain that's why CCP made cap batteries take up so much PG as a drawback to the fact that they are superior to regen modules of the same %.
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2006.12.21 05:58:00 - [5] Edited by: Hllaxiu on 21/12/2006 05:58:51 Originally by: nthexwn The actual shape of the graph is not changed between these scenarios, so having a 15% cap bonus or a 15% regen bonus would result in the exact same thing. The only difference being that the cap bonus would give you extra cap on top of the regen. I'm fairly certain that's why CCP made cap batteries take up so much PG as a drawback to the fact that they are superior to regen modules of the same %. ( IN EVE ) Energy in a capacitor is given by: capacity(1-sech(4.8t/charge_time)) You can take up arguments with Dust Puppy if you disagree. For sustaining modules, we care about the maximum cap recharge time - or the maximum of the first derivative. This rate is approximately 2.5capacity/time. To simplify things, we can drop out the 2.5 when comparing modules... With rigs ( CCC = Capacitor control circuit I = 15% recharge time, SMC = Semiconductor Memory Cell = 15% capacity): 1 CCC: recharge rate = 1.176 base 2 CCC: recharge rate = 1.384 * base 3 CCC: recharge rate = 1.628 * base 1 SMC: recharge rate = 1.15 * base 2 SMC: recharge rate = 1.323 * base 3 SMC: recharge rate = 1.521 * base Even mixing things up... 2 CCC, 1 SMC: recharge rate = 1.592 * base 2 SMC, 1 CCC: recharge rate = 1.556 * base It should also be pointed out: Semiconductor Memory Circuit: 165 Burned Logic Circuit 55 Melted Capacitor Console 165 Tripped Power Circuit Capacitor Control Circuit: 83 Burned Logic Circuit 22 Melted Capacitor Console 72 Tripped Power Circuit So if you can build one SMC you can build two capacitor control circuits! I know which one I'm going to build! --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
schurem Silver Snake Enterprise Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.21 13:28:00 - [6] What rats drop the melted capacitor consoles? However, I still think EvE needs more and better tactical warning sounds. <<<< No Boundaries, No Fences, Fly Free* Or Die Trying* >>>>
Ezra Gallente Calista Industries	Posted - 2006.12.21 16:29:00 - [7] Originally by: nthexwn The actual shape of the graph is not changed between these scenarios, so having a 15% cap bonus or a 15% regen bonus would result in the exact same thing. The only difference being that the cap bonus would give you extra cap on top of the regen. Not quite. Cap recharge is a function of (cap capacity/recharge time) - See another post for the exact formula, but this is the "base" number from which the recharge rate is calculated at any cap percentage. (Peak cap recharge is approximately 1.7 times the cap capacity/recharge time ratio, at around 30% cap, or something like that.) Now, the way "cap recharge increase" modules work is to reduce your recharge time. Now, this means: For a "cap capacity" bonus of 15%, new_cap_capacity = old_cap_capacity1.15 For a "cap recharge" bonus of 15%, new_recharge_time = old_recharge_time0.85 Now, when plugged into the above formula, it results in: For a cap capacity bonus of 15%, new_recharge_rate = old_recharge_rate1.15, or 15% For a cap recharge bonus of 15%, new_recharge_rate = old_recharge_rate/0.85 = old_recharge_rate1.176, or 17.6% As to why cap batteries help recharge so much on small ships - they add far more than 15% to cap capacity. (I think a named large cap battery on an Exequeror comes to 50% or so. If you're wondering why anyone would put such a thing on an Exeq, an Exeq with Gallente Cruiser 4 or above remote repping you can outdo a T2 LAR.) ------------ Ezra Cornell pe0n, Calista Industries
Si'dun Took	Posted - 2007.11.13 19:52:00 - [8] Any one know where I could get the exact formula explained? I dont know what the sech is in the formula. I want to take the derivative and make a formula for finding exact cap recharge at a certain percentage. I noticed above it was stated that 1.7 linear recharge rate is the peak but I would like to know what that is based on so I can figure optimal ranges that people can calculate to sustain tanks and durations of running repairers/boosters. Please let me know! and thanks
Interval Grenadiers	Posted - 2007.11.13 20:01:00 - [9] sech -> Hyperbolic secant That's as much as I know about it. Link below if you are interested in more. http://mathworld.wolfram.com/HyperbolicSecant.html
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.11.13 20:54:00 - [10] If you're looking for sustainable cap, go for the Capacitor Control Circuit. If you're on the other hand going to empty the capacitor faster than it takes for the extra recharge from the CCC to replace 15% of your cap (which is quite a long time really) you're better off with the Semiconductor Memory Cell as it will provide you with more cap. If you're using a Cap Booster, use the Semiconductor Memory Cell, as your cap recharge is almost completely dependent on the Cap Booster, and the Semiconductor will make your cap last longer (as the booster has more time to work before you go empty). On Jump capable vessels, always go for the CCC. Why? Because it reduces recharge time, thus you can jump faster as the ability to jump depends on having a certain percentage of your total capacitor. The choice isn't clear at all, as what you want out of your ship isn't "Maximum cap recharge", it's for the ships cap to last as long as possible when it really counts. If you're going to empty your cap in 3 minutes (without rigs) I'd rather have the extra 10-30 seconds from the Semiconductor memory cell than some sort of maximized capacitor recharge rate if that means my cap will only last for 5 more seconds with a CCC. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.11.13 22:51:00 - [11] On capital ships, almost certainly CCCs. Time to 70% cap is of the essence. On other ships, it depends on whether you want slightly more cap recharge (CCC) or more cap to burn through (SMC). CCCs increase your recharge by about 17.6% (remember you are dividing by 0.85), while SMCs only give 15% more cap recharge (multiplying by 1.15). As for the formula, peak recharge = 2.5 * average recharge rate = 2.5 * capacitor (or shield) size / cap recharge time. Peak is at 33%, falls off on either side.
Si'dun Took	Posted - 2007.11.13 23:15:00 - [12] Thanks all for the reply, now I can figure the exact required cap recharge necessary for my ships to perma my tank.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:53:00 - [13] just EFT-ing around a bit, and while a CCC rig gives a far larger direct recharge benefit compared to a SMC, if you can achieve Cap-stability with SMCs i'd use those. Why? Simple, if you use Siege mode or Triage incase of a Mom or Carrier, the SMCs will allow you to last longer than you would using a CCC rig. There's no way you can compensate for the increased drain with cap-recharge alone, but buying yourself a couple of minutes worth of Cap certainly doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.
Borasao	Posted - 2007.11.14 21:16:00 - [14] From what I understand (I'm not a cap ship pilot) but Cap Flux modules are also useful... you not only want as high recharge as you can get but you want LESS total cap because the cyno/jump limit is 70% of max available cap (regardless of what the actual amount of total cap is). Increase recharge and decrease total amount will get you from 0% to 70% full faster than making the cap even bigger.
Barthezz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.15 11:16:00 - [15] It all depends on usage of your capital ship. A logistics carrier could very well have a bigger benefit to SMC's then CCC's because it can burst more remote-reps for a longer period. A low-sec MS also has a bigger benefit from SMC's then CCC's because if a neut-gang gets to you the bigger cap buffer means they have to neut more first-cycle because the 70->100% cap amount is bigger. A dread setup for capital-gang pos-take downs probably also benefits a bit more from SMC's because most of the time you need to burst-rep on them, not sustained-reps. However for normal 'stuff' (combat carriers, etc) CCC's are better because your cap regen is higher. --- Dont be a victim of what I do to survive!
Trox Aeze Kaaii-Net Research Labs	Posted - 2007.11.15 11:44:00 - [16] 1x SMC 2x CCC is the best mix. You wont lose any significant time to recharge, just a few seconds in difference. When it comes to actual combat, that extra buffer in your cap will be worth every point it provides. Can tank longer and bigger NOS/Neut resistant
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.15 11:49:00 - [17] Nope, ccc only ;)

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