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T2 manufacturing: its not big, and its not clever

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Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 00:16:00 - [1] Edited by: Butter Dog on 24/12/2006 00:16:34 Well, I have previously voiced an opinion that the current T2 system is somewhat ridiculous. It protects T2 BPO owners from market forces, and a decent print is essentially a license to print ISK and never worry about it again. It goes against the grain of this game, and Invention does nothing to resolve that. This is normally responded to by T2 BPO owners going on and on about how hard it is to make a living. How making T2 items is an involved and complicated process us mere mortals could not understand. I recently won a decent enough T2 BPO on the lottery through an alt with barely any RP (luck). And what have I found? I simply trained two new skills on my alt (2 hours), put up a few buy orders, and now the ISK is rolling in VERY easily at a rate more than enough to sustain me in PvP, and then some. All of this simply reinforces my view that getting a decent enough T2 BPO is simply the 'I win' button in EVE - I don't care what I lose in PvP, the manufacturing process is very simple to manage, and there is no challenge in it at all. Its a joke. And no, you can't have my BPO :) ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 00:25:00 - [2] Originally by: Haffrage What type of bpo? Ammo? Mod? Ship? Is it well sought after, or it is just there to lag the market? Its a decent mod BPO, there is demand. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 00:34:00 - [3] Originally by: CHONGUS You can have all the ISK in EvE and that still does mean you have an "I win" button in PvP. If you need endless amounts of ISK to PvP then its not a T2 BPO you need it's lessons in PvP I don't mean it in this sense. I'm talking generally. Why should I have got lucky and never have to worry about ISK again? Its a stupid system, which goes against the raw, capitalistic nature of EVE. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 01:28:00 - [4] Manufacturing update: I just moved a hauler two jumps to pick up some Robotics. Don't tell me I'm not earning my ISK. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 02:20:00 - [5] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Thanks for repeating what has been said thousands of times already. I think you will find that it has not been said by T2 BPO owners. Until now. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 13:18:00 - [6] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 24/12/2006 05:25:46 Summary of OP: Quote: I got a T2 BPO that is easy to build, so I assume all T2 BPOs are easy to build. I have no idea what a Claymore is, and I assume it makes a good profit, even though its margin is lower than that of a T1 battleship. Clearly, all T2 BPOs are exactly like my T2 BPO, so the entire system is flawed, instead of a merely certain few items being overpriced. A more accurate summary would be: "I got a T2 BPO, and ALL T2 BPO's are easy to build. I won it in a stupid lottery system with no base in logic or reason. No-one in eve deserves a license to print ISK in this way." ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 13:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Gothikia well butter if your so unhappy about being able to print isk, i'll gladly take it off of your hands for a mere, say, 10mil? that should be enough for your troubles.. Pointing out the obvious flaws in the system doesnt mean I won't benefit from it. Decide for yourself if you think its reasonable that I should be able to do so. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 15:59:00 - [8] Edited by: Butter Dog on 24/12/2006 16:00:23 Originally by: Dark Shikari So a BPO for which you need to dedicate an entire character worth of factory slots just to build the components for, and for which you need to do more indy hauling to supply than an entire large POS, is "easy to build"? Just because you don't have such a BPO doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have a 1 day old alt with 800k SP on a spare account slot to build the components, and manufacture the module. So no, its not exactly tricky. I think I can spare that for a steady profit of 250m a week, which is more ISK than I need. Also: buy orders. Why do the work yourself when you're earning 1500% profit. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 16:04:00 - [9] Originally by: Dimitri Chandler All well and good, except for the fact that most of the big players in the T2 BPO market didn't win them, they bought them off people who won them and think 10bn isk is a lot of money. On a corporate or alliance level, 10bn is not an extravagant amount of ISK. But on an individual level, for having done no more than 'get lucky', its a lot. Not that I'm selling it, I don't need 10bn ISK, the profit over time is more than enough as it is. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.24 21:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Ramblin Man Try investigating where those components you're using come from and tell me "T2 production" is still too easy. Compared to POS owner/operators, the Amarr have nothing to whine about on the "CCP hates us!" front. The process itself may be a long one, but not the BPO owners involvment (unless they choose it to be). You can buy completed components off market, put in factory with BPO, wait, and profit to the tune of 1000%+ quite easily. Where is the logic in that? Its just a very, very strange way of allocating the riches of our virtual universe. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.25 14:51:00 - [11] Originally by: AlleyKat For Butter Dog now, the only difference between Sisi and Tranq is he can't petition someone for podding him on Tranq. I wouldn't go this far. My heart still pumps in PvP. Winning and losing matter to me. But it certainly makes the game more 'comfortable', for no other reason than sheer luck. That is wrong, in my opinion. There is a feeling of satisfaction in truly earning your ISK before putting it on the line. That said, I wouldn't go back to mining Omber in an Imicus to emulate that feeling ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.26 20:31:00 - [12] Originally by: Shayla Etherodyne Originally by: Nimie .... you can't get a monopoly by winning a bpo. they give like, 7 percent a month. how people think you can start a monopoly by winning a bpo boggles me. at that rate, it'll take you 1 1/4 years to buy another bpo and another 1 1/4 years to get 4 bpos out of the 20 bpos in the game. ... 7% ? Very strange number, can I ask where you have got that? BTW: normally when speaking of the BPO monopoly, the people speak of top seller items, with huge hoverhead like the Hammeread II Most of the price rises on items like Hammerhead II's are not driven by manufacturers, they are driven by powerful resellers with hundreads of billions of ISK invested in controlling the market in certain products. EVE's economic model allows this. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.26 21:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Butter Dog Most of the price rises on items like Hammerhead II's are not driven by manufacturers, they are driven by powerful resellers with hundreads of billions of ISK invested in controlling the market in certain products. Actually Butter Dog, the prices are driven (for by far the most part) by market demand and the supply being limited by the BPO in question. Resellers merely take advantage of market trends by buying when the market is slack and goods are cheaper, to sell them later at whatever price the market decides it can stomach. You underestimate the power of resellers. ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.
Butter Dog ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.27 15:32:00 - [14] Originally by: Tachy T2 example: Scimitar, Minmatar Logistics Cruiser Skills: Industry 5 Cruiser Construction 1 Minmatar Starship Engineering 1 Mechanical Engineering 1 T1 base: Scythe Minerals: Isogen Nocxium Morphite T2 construction components: Plasma Thruster Laser Sensor Cluster Nanomechanical Microprocessor Fernite Carbide Composite Armor Plate Nuclear Reactor Unit Electrolytic Capacitor Unit Deflection Shield Emitter Commodities: Construction blocks Tools: R.A.M.- Starship Tech Hidden Skills: Hydromagnetic Physics 3 Electromechanical Physics 3 Molecular Engineering 3 Electronic Engineering 3 Nuclear Physics 3 Plasma Physics 3 Required Composites (From complex reactions): Fernite Carbide Ferrogel Sylramic Fibers Fullerides Nanotransistors Hypersynaptic Fibers Phenolic Composites Fermionic Condensates Simple reaction comodities, reactions, multiple POS for the reactors and moon mining ressources, moon scanning and POS fuel are not listed because of space limitations. That's a lot of different stuff and effort in my book. If you're building the components on your own, you can't build stuff you can sell right of the factory so the finished ship has to fill the gap in your wallet compared to simple T1 production done in the same time. Yeah, cos all T2 BPO owners run their own complex reaction farms How hard do you think it is to get these items together? I'll tell you: * Sit an alt in Jita * Put up buy orders * Wait 24 hours * Put items in factory slot * ... thats it ------------- Be a part of EVE history - The 500bn ISS IPO.

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