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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14729
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 02:25:57 -
[271] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: It was stated by Fozzie just before summer that the player number drops were all from High-Sec and there has been increased numbers in Null and Low.
Well duh. One has only to look at ice and rock belts in highsec to see all the missing ISBoxer fleets.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Top Guac
Mexican Avacado Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 02:45:48 -
[272] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:... since 2011 we have had nothing but PVP/Null changes/improvements/additions the numbers you see less of every day are a perceived problem with lack of High Sec content and/or security. Top guac!
Toppest guac ever. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
4025
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 06:34:36 -
[273] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: It was stated by Fozzie just before summer that the player number drops were all from High-Sec and there has been increased numbers in Null and Low.
Well duh. One has only to look at ice and rock belts in highsec to see all the missing ISBoxer fleets.
ISBox is missing. But multiboxers are all online, some even manage larger fleets than before. I don't get your point here, frankly. v-¦v
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
457
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 08:25:45 -
[274] - Quote
Top Guac wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:... since 2011 we have had nothing but PVP/Null changes/improvements/additions the numbers you see less of every day are a perceived problem with lack of High Sec content and/or security. Top guac! Toppest guac ever.
Quote:It was stated by Fozzie just before summer that the player number drops were all from High-Sec and there has been increased numbers in Null and Low.
You missed an important bit of that quote but don't worry, I got your back |
Speedy Conzollis
Only Fools and Horses
21
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Posted - 2015.10.13 08:45:53 -
[275] - Quote
I donGÇÖt think there is anything wrong with HS, the problem is with all other secs, although I think LS is in the best place atm. Why do I think this?
Background
When I first started playing EvE I got contacted by a NS group before I even finished my tutorials and decided to move to NS there and then. Probably the reason for this was I had come from WoW playing the end game, raids with a top guild, which became very boring in the end. I saw NS as EvEGÇÖs end game and rightly so when I moved down. There was massive fleets very little PVE and fantastic support for newbros like me. Every night there would be multiple roams and always something to do. The highlights were BR, titan bridging and working your way back from half way across the universe to get back home and hopefully fighting along the way. Fun times.
I trained in to carriers and bought a JF char, help with the logic side of the corp etc. Still fun times, then the NS nerfs hit... To me this flattened NS life, less fights, Logistics were a pain in the butt and roams finding very little, even using JBs became a pain with the fatigay. So I went inactive for awhile, still subbed for the training could not bring myself to stop that :P Then when back for a bit and noticed a few others feeling the same about NS and decided to created my own corp and try something completely new, WHs. Switched training on my dred/carrier/jf pilot from cap mastery to processing, PI etc. that would be useful in the WH and also sold all my caps. Now this was great for I think about a year, all the new stuff to learn, POS, corp management, sleeper sites etc. We were doing well in our C3 and had fun abusing our K-space connections to all over Eve, just like the old days in NS. Fun times.
Then we grew a bit, C3 was not really providing enough income and was becoming ridiculously easy, time to step up our game! Moved to a C4, the logistics were a nightmare, but we got there in the end. Well a few months in and we found that we were earning more and so could by those nice T3Cs etc. but the problem was finding PVP content. Scanning for hours mapping the chain, looking for K-space exits to do our PVP in. I know this is not how the hardcore WHGÇÖers say WHs should be played, but itGÇÖs how we wanted to play and felt too small to go against the established WH groups. In the end we all moved out to LS except one who has now I believe made billions soloGÇÖing the PVE in the C4. Again we all went our separate ways, I tried moving back down to NS with my old corp, was fun for only about a month and then sov mechanics changed again this destroyed NS for me as we all moved in to NPC NS. So after trying to HTFU and adapt I found myself playing other games and took a break from EvE for about 3 months.
The return
I came back on a few weeks ago and found one of my own corp mates that used to live in WH was on, he was chilling in HS. I moved back to my corp and moved all the assets etc. up to HS with him. We are now running HS missions, anoms for the chance of DED and really just having a good old social time. Sure this will get boring too we both know that, but we are enjoying the break, learning the stuff I never have tried before. The epic arcs, cosmos, missions and lore. To be honest I am learning a lot more about fitting etc. as I run the higher level DEDs and missions, than I ever did in NS as ships were always on contract and no thought required. So fun times again for a bit.
Future
To be honest I donGÇÖt see NS changing to suit my play style and as the corp gets back together now winter is coming, we all agree that the lower class WH provided the best options for content. HS, LS and NS access through the chains. This is where we will end up, but we donGÇÖt want to move until details about how citadels will work in WH space. So we are playing, yet again, the CCP waiting game. I just hope HS keeps us interested enough until 2016!
Finally
I see more life in HS, most I talk to are happy doing their own thing solo or in corps. People seem to be having fun as far as I can see. ItGÇÖs the people in other areas that seem to be talking negatively about the game, I know many are just passing time until the next changes come.
HS is fine(ish), LS almost fine, the rest not. (Based on my opinion and no one elses). The reason I am in HS is due to the current of the game I really canGÇÖt think of a better place to wait out the changes. TLDR; Read or donGÇÖt I really donGÇÖt mind.
Also I donGÇÖt care about spelling/grammer etc. I am at work and should not be writing this, just wanted to get across how the game has been for me personally over the few years I have been playing.
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Commander Spurty
Moosearmy Gentlemen's.Parlor
1578
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 13:24:22 -
[276] - Quote
re:redesign/introduce one substantial thing in high-sec
Buff CONCORD, give them the power to destroy Pirate faction gear. Utilizing CONCORDs various bodies, purge Pirate faction "Mods, Implants and Ships" from SPACE and the MARKETS wherever CONCORD operates, in the only way EVE can.
By hook or by crook, or just a big'ol'bang!
There should be no place for the utilization or sales / purchase through the market place (policed by the "Commerce Assessment Department") in areas in which CONCORD operate.
Part of an 'Expansion' release (not a 6 week, blam, all your pirate stuff is getting CONCORDed release cycle). Give it a video and lots of lore behind the change of stance in high-sec. Have CONCORD fire out emails (in game and out) to all accounts with Pirate faction gear in 0.5 or higher locations.
CONCORD will not even stop at killing your ship. They'll extract your implants as well. Same technology that makes CONCORD ships magically impossible to destroy (aka you pod pilots will never get access to this technology), allows them to scan your pod's implants.
From this release (Some big named expansion, no eyes wide shut non-sense of "I've been away from the game and now CONCORD blew up my Pirate frigates" shenanigans this time) on, anyone in high-sec with pirate implants are -10 KOS to CONCORD
Result: People of High-sec won't see the cool stuff they can't ever afford anymore, because it'll just be 'stuff for low sec, null sec and Worm Holes'.
Anyone on the 'wall' about leaving high-sec will. Anyone that really can't leave high-sec will revert back to Navy versions of ships and mods and implants.
What is this? It's a sandbox, you can't do that? But of course they can.
Or are you saying you are able to anchor bubbles off the Jita 4-4 station from your Titan?
No, you can't. There's already PLENTY of precedent for this.
Thoughts? Worries? Excitement at the imminent fire sales? Wonderment at how many people are hoarding offensive amounts of pirate faction stuff in high-sec because, you (another player) have absolutely no way to force them to undock it .. until now :O
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12642
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 14:19:08 -
[277] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:Maybe they are worried, but there is no correlation between the (decrease in) the playerbase numbers and the "quality" of ideas posted, on these forums or Reddit or anywhere.
Honestly, they have moderators to sift through forums and forward worthwhile ideas, they have the CSM as a feedback mechanism, they have that "why did you cancel subscription" questionnaire (whatever its worth), and they have internal metrics that tell them which kinds of EVE gameplay are popular and which are not.
They can panic if they want to, but listening to forums would be a bad idea.
EDIT: In my opinion, the reduced playerbase isn't because of high-sec; I think it's because the big 0.0 alliances are in limbo as far as starting fun wars, until the sov, structure, and capital ship changes are fully deployed. This thread is pretty much off-topic for this year; this CSM was pretty much elected for nullsec issues, and CCP was going to focus on nullsec changes. And they better hurry with them. It was stated by Fozzie just before summer that the player number drops were all from High-Sec and there has been increased numbers in Null and Low. So whether you want to believe Jenn and thing that everything CCPdoes is for the High Sec Carebear, or you want to look at reality that since 2011 we have had nothing but PVP/Null changes/improvements/additions the numbers you see less of every day are a perceived problem with lack of High Sec content and/or security.
Ah, look, the dishonesty alt has returned. The bolded part is the reveal right there.
I never said "everything". I have said that CCP has done a lot for PVE (newsflash, pve isn't jus tin high sec unless I'm imagining these escalation I run all the time) and those of us who actally like EVE PVE understand this,
The loses from high sec were probably all people who shouldn't have been paying EVE in the 1st place, but played it because "there was nothing else" or "EVE could be great one day". Those people are no loss, because it's stupid to play a video game for reasons other than "man I like this video game!".
People like you worry about the issue it for selfish, anxiety laden reasons:
- because you worry that the lack of income for CCP from those incompatible fair weather players is somehow going to hurt you (based on the stupid belief that it was helping you in the 1st place)
and
-(perhaps more importantly) people like you recognize your own kind, and with fewer people like you (and more like me) you know you have less impact on CCPs design decisions.
Man, it must suck for high sec/themepark partisans to see their base of whiney entitled solo/casual political support just evaporate into thin air like that.... However will they get CCP to change EVE to their liking if the game is filled with nothing more than people who actually like playing EVE?11?!?!? |
Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
56
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 15:03:03 -
[278] - Quote
Null sec is the problem, not high sec. If there were actual player driven content available in null, these whiners would be too busy to post on the forums. |
Nighthawk The Assassin
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 15:09:09 -
[279] - Quote
Bottom line is, unles u pay for their accounts u dont have the right to tell people how to play eve
period.
u just want easy kills, no risk,most carebears have more balls than griefers by a long shot |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14736
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 15:13:00 -
[280] - Quote
Nighthawk The Assassin wrote:Bottom line is, unles u pay for their accounts u dont have the right to tell people how to play eve
My guns disagree. As long as they're undocked, they've consented to PvP.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Nighthawk The Assassin
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 15:14:40 -
[281] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Nighthawk The Assassin wrote:Bottom line is, unles u pay for their accounts u dont have the right to tell people how to play eve
My guns disagree. As long as they're undocked, they've consented to PvP.
And there it is
Perfect example.
Exactly what is wrong with eve
*undock and you play my version of eve online*
And you wonder why so many players quit the game?
Are you just plain stupid or are you going to say..
Risk Vs Reward
Or
Sandbox?
Same old tired shield bullshit |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14737
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 15:16:40 -
[282] - Quote
Nighthawk The Assassin wrote: Exactly what is wrong with eve
It's one of the few things right with EVE, actually.
You're just playing the wrong game. Your refusal to admit it is what's wrong with you, among other things.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14737
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 15:19:58 -
[283] - Quote
I do not care about what you want. Simple as that, I do not care. You do not matter to me in any way save what you can potentially drop as loot. To me, most of the "players" of this game aren't players at all. You're barely better than NPCs, or destructible terrain, something to be destroyed for my amusement whether you like it or not.
And the very best thing about EVE is that what you want doesn't really matter.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
637
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 18:17:25 -
[284] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:Maybe they are worried, but there is no correlation between the (decrease in) the playerbase numbers and the "quality" of ideas posted, on these forums or Reddit or anywhere.
Honestly, they have moderators to sift through forums and forward worthwhile ideas, they have the CSM as a feedback mechanism, they have that "why did you cancel subscription" questionnaire (whatever its worth), and they have internal metrics that tell them which kinds of EVE gameplay are popular and which are not.
They can panic if they want to, but listening to forums would be a bad idea.
EDIT: In my opinion, the reduced playerbase isn't because of high-sec; I think it's because the big 0.0 alliances are in limbo as far as starting fun wars, until the sov, structure, and capital ship changes are fully deployed. This thread is pretty much off-topic for this year; this CSM was pretty much elected for nullsec issues, and CCP was going to focus on nullsec changes. And they better hurry with them. It was stated by Fozzie just before summer that the player number drops were all from High-Sec and there has been increased numbers in Null and Low. So whether you want to believe Jenn and thing that everything CCPdoes is for the High Sec Carebear, or you want to look at reality that since 2011 we have had nothing but PVP/Null changes/improvements/additions the numbers you see less of every day are a perceived problem with lack of High Sec content and/or security. Ah, look, the dishonesty alt has returned. The bolded part is the reveal right there. I never said "everything". I have said that CCP has done a lot for PVE (newsflash, pve isn't jus tin high sec unless I'm imagining these escalation I run all the time) and those of us who actally like EVE PVE understand this, The loses from high sec were probably all people who shouldn't have been paying EVE in the 1st place, but played it because "there was nothing else" or "EVE could be great one day". Those people are no loss, because it's stupid to play a video game for reasons other than "man I like this video game!". People like you worry about the issue it for selfish, anxiety laden reasons: - because you worry that the lack of income for CCP from those incompatible fair weather players is somehow going to hurt you (based on the stupid belief that it was helping you in the 1st place) and -(perhaps more importantly) people like you recognize your own kind, and with fewer people like you (and more like me) you know you have less impact on CCPs design decisions. Man, it must suck for high sec/themepark partisans to see their base of whiney entitled solo/casual political support just evaporate into thin air like that.... However will they get CCP to change EVE to their liking if the game is filled with nothing more than people who actually like playing EVE?11?!?!?
Hey genius... if Low and Null numbers went up, and High-Sec numbers tanked as Fozzie said in the two part interview in May... wouldn't it be a true statement that all the losses of players were from High-Sec? On a macro scale, you can't differentiate between losses/gains in the individual level, only final numbers.
And nothing I said was about what they should or shouldn't do with High Sec. At this point I couldn't care less. So Dishonesty Main (You) comes and puts words in my mouth.
You also keep ignoring what I do in this game even though it has been stated over and over. My main does High-Sec war decs and my alts are all in a WH making blue isk. But you keep ignoring that and lumping me in with a group that you feel is inferior to yours.
Just for fun, go back and re-read your own post from 2 pages back. About how CCP has only changed this game for the benefit of high-sec PVE players and how that is killing the game... Look at the word modifiers you used. The only thing dishonest around here is the value you place on your own opinions.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
637
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 18:18:15 -
[285] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I do not care about what you want. Simple as that, I do not care. You do not matter to me in any way save what you can potentially drop as loot. To me, most of the "players" of this game aren't players at all. You're barely better than NPCs, or destructible terrain, something to be destroyed for my amusement whether you like it or not.
And the very best thing about EVE is that what you want doesn't really matter.
The reason this game is doomed.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14744
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 18:47:30 -
[286] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I do not care about what you want. Simple as that, I do not care. You do not matter to me in any way save what you can potentially drop as loot. To me, most of the "players" of this game aren't players at all. You're barely better than NPCs, or destructible terrain, something to be destroyed for my amusement whether you like it or not.
And the very best thing about EVE is that what you want doesn't really matter. The reason this game is doomed.
Pretty sure that player freedom is the only reason this game exists.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
639
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 18:50:02 -
[287] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I do not care about what you want. Simple as that, I do not care. You do not matter to me in any way save what you can potentially drop as loot. To me, most of the "players" of this game aren't players at all. You're barely better than NPCs, or destructible terrain, something to be destroyed for my amusement whether you like it or not.
And the very best thing about EVE is that what you want doesn't really matter. The reason this game is doomed. Pretty sure that player freedom is the only reason this game exists.
This game exists because it is a MMO set in space
You can't have MMO without caring even a little bit about all the other parts of the game that aren't YOU.
So your **** poor attitude about players being nothing more than NPCs to you unless they do exactly what you want them too... is killing the game.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14749
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 19:16:07 -
[288] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: This game exists because it is a MMO set in space
And of course, what every carebear really wants. The generic, same old same old space game, right? Just dumb the game down until it's indistinguishable from WoW in space.
They have those already, go play them instead. EVE is for people who like player freedom, choices and consequences.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Crimson Nirnroots
Compliant Munitions
44
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 19:32:16 -
[289] - Quote
Nighthawk The Assassin wrote:Bottom line is, unles u pay for their accounts u dont have the right to tell people how to play eve
period.
That sword cuts both ways, Nighthawk.
Antimatter, now with more Nirnroots.
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Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
639
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 19:32:29 -
[290] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: This game exists because it is a MMO set in space
And of course, what every carebear really wants. The generic, same old same old space game, right? Just dumb the game down until it's indistinguishable from WoW in space. They have those already, go play them instead. EVE is for people who like player freedom, choices and consequences.
Where in that sentence is there any reference to carebear?
Where do you get this crap?
You have a one track mind, some perverse fear of people playing this game for its PVE.
Show us on the Raven where the Carebear player touched you...
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4027
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 20:19:43 -
[291] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I do not care about what you want. Simple as that, I do not care. You do not matter to me in any way save what you can potentially drop as loot. To me, most of the "players" of this game aren't players at all. You're barely better than NPCs, or destructible terrain, something to be destroyed for my amusement whether you like it or not.
And the very best thing about EVE is that what you want doesn't really matter. The reason this game is doomed. Pretty sure that player freedom is the only reason this game exists.
There is no freedom without limiting freedom, and CCP has regularly limited player freedom when it would hurt the game.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
14749
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 20:41:06 -
[292] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: There is no freedom without limiting freedom
The battlecry of the would-be fascist.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4027
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 21:09:44 -
[293] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: There is no freedom without limiting freedom
The battlecry of the would-be fascist.
It is not my fault if you don't understand that you can't move your fist past my nose.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Nicolai Serkanner
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. I N F A M O U S
510
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 21:15:00 -
[294] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: There is no freedom without limiting freedom
The battlecry of the would-be fascist.
Do you think there is freedom without limits? |
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
643
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 22:25:02 -
[295] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote: There is no freedom without limiting freedom
The battlecry of the would-be fascist.
The death pangs of a simple and emotionally charged argument.
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
40494
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 22:59:37 -
[296] - Quote
This thread seems to be working out well.
Not being much of a highsec player I don't really feel qualified to comment on improvements to gameplay, but surely there must be some suggestions other then personal attacks. That's been done to death in every other GD thread.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Marsha Mallow
2615
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 23:02:42 -
[297] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:This thread seems to be working out well.
Not being much of a highsec player I don't really feel qualified to comment on improvements to gameplay, but surely there must be some suggestions other then personal attacks. That's been done together in every other GD thread. Yeh, I can't even be arsed reading it.
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE!
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
Jenn aSide wrote: does anyone have any assless chaps I could borrow?
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BirdStrike
State War Academy Caldari State
49
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Posted - 2015.10.13 23:06:56 -
[298] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:This thread seems to be working out well.
Not being much of a highsec player I don't really feel qualified to comment on improvements to gameplay, but surely there must be some suggestions other then personal attacks. That's been done together in every other GD thread. Yeh, I can't even be arsed reading it.
Summary: Whine whine whine carebears. Whine whine whine gankers.
Summary; because of penis.
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Marsha Mallow
2615
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Posted - 2015.10.13 23:09:45 -
[299] - Quote
Hmm, will read tmrw then
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE!
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
Jenn aSide wrote: does anyone have any assless chaps I could borrow?
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
512
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Posted - 2015.10.13 23:22:34 -
[300] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Hmm, will read tmrw then I wouldn't bother. It's really small....
Here I used to have a sig of our old Camper in space. Now it is disregarded as being the wrong format.
Looking out the window I see one thing: Nothing wrong with the format of our Camper! Silly CCP......
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