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mass rig vs. boost rig

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Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.12.25 03:49:00 - [1] In other words, Polycarbon Engine Housing vs Propellant Injection Vent. The first one decreases mass by 15%, the other increases speed while using afterburner or MWD by 15%. The AB/MWD speed increase they give are the same. But mass rig costs more to produce. So why bother with the mass rig? What else does mass affect? I know that the mass seems to be used to determine base ship inertia (because less massive ships are generally more agile). However the mass rig seems not to affect inertia at all. By the way, if you look at inertial stab stats, you'll see they give their inertia bonus as a separate one from the mass bonus. So probably the inertia is unaffected at all by mass rig.
Benglada Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2006.12.25 03:56:00 - [2] mass = faster turning (=fast warping) and more boost from ab's/mwd's --------------------------- Originally by: Arkanor 0.0 is the Final Frontier. Bring money and friends.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.12.25 04:56:00 - [3] inertia=agility=faster turning pls read again. I tryed both rig sets on sisi and mass rigs do not affect "turning" as you say. inertial stabs which are supposed to decrease mass, have "agility" attribute to affect "turning", as their "mass" attribute only affect mwd/ab speed. mass rigs however only have "mass" attribute. which is just repeating the point of the first post.
Siakel	Posted - 2006.12.25 05:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe inertia=agility=faster turning pls read again. I tryed both rig sets on sisi and mass rigs do not affect "turning" as you say. inertial stabs which are supposed to decrease mass, have "agility" attribute to affect "turning", as their "mass" attribute only affect mwd/ab speed. mass rigs however only have "mass" attribute. which is just repeating the point of the first post. No, the 'Inertia' stat isn't affected by the rig. However, as said, the Mass rig effects agility and warp speed, as the Inertia and Mass stats are all tied together to determine your agility. Mass also effects warp capacitor need.
Imechal Ravpeim Amarr International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.25 05:16:00 - [5] So I think what this topic is saying is that the mass rig is as good as the propulsion and agility rigs put together?
Kulmid Nubs. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.25 05:50:00 - [6] Edited by: Kulmid on 25/12/2006 05:54:03 Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe inertia=agility=faster turning pls read again. I tryed both rig sets on sisi and mass rigs do not affect "turning" as you say. inertial stabs which are supposed to decrease mass, have "agility" attribute to affect "turning", as their "mass" attribute only affect mwd/ab speed. mass rigs however only have "mass" attribute. which is just repeating the point of the first post. Inertia - The tendency of a body to resist acceleration. Acceleration - The act of accelerating; increase of speed or velocity. Velocity - A vector quantity whose magnitude is a body's speed and whose direction is the body's direction of motion. less mass = less inertia therefore, less interia = better turning or am I just terrible at physics?
Yukiko Kanezaki	Posted - 2006.12.25 08:27:00 - [7] Edited by: Yukiko Kanezaki on 25/12/2006 08:28:15 Quick note, acceleration can also mean a decrease in speed/velocity. Originally by: Kulmid Edited by: Kulmid on 25/12/2006 05:54:03 Inertia - The tendency of a body to resist acceleration. Acceleration - The act of accelerating; increase of speed or velocity. Velocity - A vector quantity whose magnitude is a body's speed and whose direction is the body's direction of motion. less mass = less inertia therefore, less interia = better turning or am I just terrible at physics? Inertia is solely dependant on mass, so less mass means less inertia. You are correct sir.
Rafein	Posted - 2006.12.25 08:34:00 - [8] If your looking for speed, you will get the most outta the pure speed boost rig. But the mass rig has a few other benefits, faster turning, faster accerelation, and it's always on, you don;thave t activate an AB/MWD to see a bonus.
Kulmid Nubs. Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.25 20:40:00 - [9] Originally by: Yukiko Kanezaki Edited by: Yukiko Kanezaki on 25/12/2006 08:28:15 Quick note, acceleration can also mean a decrease in speed/velocity. Originally by: Kulmid Edited by: Kulmid on 25/12/2006 05:54:03 Inertia - The tendency of a body to resist acceleration. Acceleration - The act of accelerating; increase of speed or velocity. Velocity - A vector quantity whose magnitude is a body's speed and whose direction is the body's direction of motion. less mass = less inertia therefore, less interia = better turning or am I just terrible at physics? Inertia is solely dependant on mass, so less mass means less inertia. You are correct sir. thank you, that's what I thought
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.25 20:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Yukiko Kanezaki Edited by: Yukiko Kanezaki on 25/12/2006 08:28:15 Quick note, acceleration can also mean a decrease in speed/velocity. Originally by: Kulmid Edited by: Kulmid on 25/12/2006 05:54:03 Inertia - The tendency of a body to resist acceleration. Acceleration - The act of accelerating; increase of speed or velocity. Velocity - A vector quantity whose magnitude is a body's speed and whose direction is the body's direction of motion. less mass = less inertia therefore, less interia = better turning or am I just terrible at physics? Inertia is solely dependant on mass, so less mass means less inertia. You are correct sir. That is not true in EVE though. Nanofibers decrease inertia, but don't decrease mass. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Verus Potestas Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2006.12.25 21:06:00 - [11] Shikari is correct, but the in Eve, agility is dependent on 2 seperate stats: Inertia and Mass. Agility affects turning speed and acceleration. So, to answer the OP's question: The AB/MWD rig will make you go faster. The Mass rig will make you go faster, turn faster and accelerate faster. However, you probably won't go quite as fast as with the AB/MWD rig. However, importantly, the Mass rig stacks with Inertial Stabilisers. This means that in most setups, the Mass rig is better, UNLESS you already have Inertial Stabilisers fitted. Between corps atm, the NPC one is strictly a temporary thing. RAWR!111 Sig Hijackz0r!!11 - Immy
Pattern Clarc The Priory	Posted - 2006.12.25 22:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Verus Potestas Shikari is correct, but the in Eve, agility is dependent on 2 seperate stats: Inertia and Mass. Agility affects turning speed and acceleration. So, to answer the OP's question: The AB/MWD rig will make you go faster. The Mass rig will make you go faster, turn faster and accelerate faster. However, you probably won't go quite as fast as with the AB/MWD rig. However, importantly, the Mass rig stacks with Inertial Stabilisers. This means that in most setups, the Mass rig is better, UNLESS you already have Inertial Stabilisers fitted. listen to this man sir... Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Darpz Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2006.12.27 06:00:00 - [13] Edited by: Darpz on 27/12/2006 06:04:09 mass rigs stack with inertials, so if you got inertials the rigs will be useless so if your building a "nanoship" your best up stacking Vents then in the lowslots of that ship go 2xIntertials then rest nanos and maybe a couple overdrives if you still feel more speed is needed. 3xVents + 2xLocal Inertials and 5xLocal Nanos on a domi will go 4500ish with a t2 mwd. over 5k with the affordable gisti mwds, and over 7k with LG Snakes and with normal snakes well were just getting silly. the general rule with rigs though is you choose the rig that does not have a stacking penatly that will diminish its return. for instence on tanking ones. you use the ones that effect the boost amount or duration not the resistence mods since you'll have resistence mods that will already be stacked. gun Rigs Falloff ones are very nice since there are no falloff modifer modules so stacking isn't an issue, but damage ones are usless because 1 damage mod is equal to two rigs.
Mnengli Noiliffe	Posted - 2006.12.27 07:44:00 - [14] please tell me just one thing .. did any of you actually TEST your claims? because I also have lots of ideas how stuff should have worked... problem is how it ACTUALLY works.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.27 08:09:00 - [15] Originally by: Mnengli Noiliffe please tell me just one thing .. did any of you actually TEST your claims? because I also have lots of ideas how stuff should have worked... problem is how it ACTUALLY works. Yes, they work just like I-stabs. Basicially you have a number of statistics on your ships. Mass: Affects agility Inertia: Affects agility Agility: Qualitative distinction based on turn speed and acceleration. Speed: Affects speed AB/MWD Boost: Affects speed. Now, these work in a manner such that. Speed x [boost x (Mass multiplier)] = final max speed. Your mass multiplier equals something like "Thrust/Mass" unless mass is LESS than thrust, in which point the number stays at one. This is not a difinitive calculation, not supposed to be a difinitive calculation, and should not be taken as anything difinitive, it is a very rough approximation of the mass/speed boost formula for general use when combined with real world testing. Basically this means that if you reduce your mass, you will increase your speed up to your max boost increase. Increasing your max boost will give you a speed increase and decreasing your mass will also give you a speed increase. Up to a point, because eventualy, your mass becomes so low that you are capped by the max boost on the propulsion mod. So looking at our stats again with this in mind we come up with a modifier quality and benefit dynamic. Mass: No stacking penalty; Typical diminishing returns on percentage reduction[I.E. 15% of .85 is less than 15% of 1.]. Extra diminishing return on boost formula[once you get a low mass, another reduction wont make you go faster] and Boost amount: No stacking penalty; Standard returns on percentage increase[I.E. 15% of 1.15 is larger than 15% of 1]; Standard returns on boost formula. What this means is that up to a certian number of mass reductions may or may not increase the speed of your ship more than the boost amount increase, and past a certian number the boost increase will yield better results. However, since the mass reduction has other benefits as well as increasing maximum speed while under the effects of a propulsion modifier. The easiest way to determine how many mass reductions you should have on your ship is to stick on your ship is to load up on inertial stabalizers. Then run an MWD in a straight line in a safe area. Disable the stabalizers one by one until you notice more than a drop in amount equal to either A: the amount of speed increase you would get with a boost module in percentage gain[I.E. if you went from 1 max speed to .87 max speed after removing an i-stab you would gain more speed by putting a boost rig in its place] or B: when you drop in amount less than the ratio of speed/(speed+nano)[or speed/(speed+overdrive)], I.E the point at which a nano or overdrive begins to give you more speed boost than the mass reduction does. I find that the more skills you have in the speed boost nav skill, the more difference mass reductions make, as well, with low skills a progression of stabs/nano's will produce optimal results around [1/0] [1/1] [1/2] [2/2] [2/3] [2/4] [istab/nano] for slower/heavier ships. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
mazzilliu Caldari Sniggerdly	Posted - 2006.12.27 08:16:00 - [16] only way to see it for sure is to go on sisi and test, because on TQ rigs cant be removed and we all know how expensive they are... mass affects agility definitely though... plated ships turn much slower then regular ships(less agile) and plates do not have a direct agility penalty, only mass. therefore mass affects agility. 1000% awesome guide to logging out

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