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Resists or Hardeners?

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Onezen	Posted - 2006.12.25 06:30:00 - [1] Outfitting a Myrmidon. Need advice on as close to the ultimate armor tank I can get on this thing. My lows are as follows right now: 1x 1600 RT plate 2x EANM's 2x Med Armor Rep. II 1x DCU Gives me 10665 HP Armor. Resists are: EM=71%; EXPLOS=34%; Kin and Therm both at 52%. I'm running 2 MAR's II's just for emergencies. I can turn them both on to buy some much needed time. I'm running 3x named cap rechargers in mids to help if both MAR's need to be turned on. I'm running lvl 3's right now with little or no problems. Even before I added the second MAR II things were pretty good for the lvl 3 missions. So what's a good/great armor setup for PvP? Should I go the resists route or the hardeners route?
Kella DelRae Ammu-Nation	Posted - 2006.12.25 06:46:00 - [2] Hardeners give resists... I assume you mean resists or armor amount )aka plates) The answer is resists, plates are used on snipers or tacklers who are going to die unless the warp when they get called, resists are for sticking in the battle even when you're taking hits. I would advise: 2x MAR II 3x Hardener II (EXP, KIN & THERM) or 3x EANM II 1x DCU II
OldPueblo Gallente The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen	Posted - 2006.12.25 08:48:00 - [3] You mentioned running L3's, so I assume this is PVE only? If so, I'd drop the damage control. If you are getting close to going into structure you should be warping out anyway. That last slot can add a lot more to your armor tank and keep you in the mission longer then a damage control. I'd go with the above, but scrap the damage control for a plate or possibly another hardener (though stacking is getting bad at that point). The plate will buy you more time to bring the rats damage output under control.
Kayden Drake Caldari	Posted - 2006.12.25 09:01:00 - [4] Originally by: OldPueblo You mentioned running L3's, so I assume this is PVE only? If so, I'd drop the damage control. If you are getting close to going into structure you should be warping out anyway. That last slot can add a lot more to your armor tank and keep you in the mission longer then a damage control. I'd go with the above, but scrap the damage control for a plate or possibly another hardener (though stacking is getting bad at that point). The plate will buy you more time to bring the rats damage output under control. I disagree, the damage control is great for PvEing, and will buy you much more time than a tank. I for one remembering many times skiping out of a mission with less than 50% structure. Often times your tank is JUST BARELY being beat down (as in it goes down to 20% up to 28%, then down to 18% then up to 26%) and in those cases you can just slide into structure with a DC and you wont die and can finish the fight. Its true that in some cases you should be warping out anyway, but if the wost case scenario happens and you get warpscrammbled, a DC will buy you more time to try to fight for your life than a 1600mm plate will.
OldPueblo Gallente The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen	Posted - 2006.12.25 09:56:00 - [5] Originally by: Kayden Drake Originally by: OldPueblo You mentioned running L3's, so I assume this is PVE only? If so, I'd drop the damage control. If you are getting close to going into structure you should be warping out anyway. That last slot can add a lot more to your armor tank and keep you in the mission longer then a damage control. I'd go with the above, but scrap the damage control for a plate or possibly another hardener (though stacking is getting bad at that point). The plate will buy you more time to bring the rats damage output under control. I disagree, the damage control is great for PvEing, and will buy you much more time than a tank. I for one remembering many times skiping out of a mission with less than 50% structure. Often times your tank is JUST BARELY being beat down (as in it goes down to 20% up to 28%, then down to 18% then up to 26%) and in those cases you can just slide into structure with a DC and you wont die and can finish the fight. Its true that in some cases you should be warping out anyway, but if the wost case scenario happens and you get warpscrammbled, a DC will buy you more time to try to fight for your life than a 1600mm plate will. I don't know, a constantly repairing 1600mm plate with resists in the 70-80% range (assuming standard mission hardener stacking) could possibly last longer then structure with resists in the 50-60%. Then again DCU do give you some minor added resists to shields and armor that slows down the progression into the now hardened structure. It's probably a minor difference in the end, I think I'd stick with the plate though and not cut it so close. :)
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.26 00:09:00 - [6] Edited by: Tunajuice on 26/12/2006 00:10:45 Depends. DCU is not effected by the stacking penalty, it is a true 10-14% resist bonus.. so if you have enough resists on, it may give enough resists to be worth it... depends on the setup and such.. a DCU takes a lot less PG than a 1600mm plate, and PG may be an issue. In the OP though, I might be tempted to drop the plate for a 3rd EANM for missions, as you want raw resists over buffer. There wasn't a single L3 I couldn't infinite tank in a ferox, and a myrm should tank a lot nicer.
Face Value	Posted - 2006.12.26 03:20:00 - [7] Edited by: Face Value on 26/12/2006 03:24:07 Dcu's are great because that 12-14% is almost free resistence. It doesn't add any mass to your ship, nor does it draw much on your cap. I wasn't PvPing, but there have been times where my cap was down and I was essentually tanking on my structure, the DCU would run while the reppy and hardeners where having to shut down because of low power. So run a single armor reppy, a DCU and rat specific hardeners and you'll be just fine .. and faster. You just might need to use NOS on occation. So if you don't like NOS or are sniping, Try something like a single harderner per damage type and then some energzed and resistance plating.
OldPueblo Gallente The Fantastically Pantless Sporkmen	Posted - 2006.12.26 04:38:00 - [8] Are we sure about the no stacking from the DCU? If so, that's awesome and I might be using them more often in PVE. :)
Minnow maught Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.26 11:59:00 - [9] 1600mm plate + 2 MAR's = very little PG for guns. Another way to look at this, is the quicker you kill the NPC's, the quicker you will not be taking damage. I'd Personally go: 1xMAR II 1xDCU 4xActive (rat specific) Hardners Dependant on whether you want an Afterburner or not, you should just about be able to squeeze on 6x250mm rails. Mids, Tracking comp, target painter, 1-2 cap rechargers (skill dependant), other : (webber, 2nd tracking comp, 3rd cap recharger)
Onezen	Posted - 2006.12.27 05:57:00 - [10] That's what Im finding out. The 2 T2 MED AR's and the 1600mm RT plate leave little grid for guns. What Im trying to achieve is the ultimate armor tank, or as close to itas I can get, and the maximum sustainability in a PvP encounter. So would a NOS Myrmidon be viable? NOS in high slots only? Maybe NOS and 2 heavy blasters? plus sensor dampeners in mids? I'm looking for a tough as nails PvP armor tank with max. lasting characteristics.
Minnow maught Art of War Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.27 09:36:00 - [11] Originally by: Onezen That's what Im finding out. The 2 T2 MED AR's and the 1600mm RT plate leave little grid for guns. What Im trying to achieve is the ultimate armor tank, or as close to itas I can get, and the maximum sustainability in a PvP encounter. So would a NOS Myrmidon be viable? NOS in high slots only? Maybe NOS and 2 heavy blasters? plus sensor dampeners in mids? I'm looking for a tough as nails PvP armor tank with max. lasting characteristics. I read the bit about Level 3 missions and assumed PVE .... for PvP depends a little on whether Solo or in a gang .... in a gang you can forgo some tackling gear etc and fit more EW and I'd probably forget the NOS and go for artillary / rails to up the damage output. Start with lows: 2xMAR II 1xExplosive hardner 2xEAN II 1xDCU Mids 1xMWD 1x20km Scram 1xCap Injector 2xDamp or 1xtracking disrupt + Web Highs As much medium NOS as you can fit. Fill remaining highs with small Neuts.
Onezen	Posted - 2006.12.28 04:13:00 - [12] OK. How about this: Highs: 4x med nos; 2x light Neutron Blaster II's (AM) Mids: 20K scram.; named webber; sensor damper; med.electrochem cap injector (800 charges); MWD Lows: 2x MAR II's; 2x EANM's; DCU; 400mm RT plate. with this I'm at 453.2 of 460 for cpu and 1404 of 1410 power grid.

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