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Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:12:00 - [1] My take on the Amarr situation [Background] I've flown Amarr since 08.2004 and have a specialised Amarr character. 10mill Sp in energy turrets and gunnery and not far from flying my capital ship. I'm also an outlaw and been PvP'ing exclusively for my isk for allmost a year and a half. The Problems/Downsides To Amarr #We are predictable, A lot of our ships have few midslots and no other options such as Missiles/Drones/EW. #We do less damage to Omni Tanks. #Our tech I ships generally only get 1 REAL bonus as i'm sure we all agree the cap cost of lasers which was supposedly introduced to stop other races using our guns is kinda silly nowadays, They dont want to use our lasers anyway #Our tanks are exactly on par with every other race, We DO NOT tank any better. #A set of large Tech II ammunition for a Bs is the equivilant of carrying an uninsured tech I Bs in our cargohold.... Yay Amarr Strengths #Mid Range Damage, Our considered by many "Best" weapon the Mega Pulse II can be highly effective from 15 - 50km. With impressive DPS within these ranges. Ok it's got nothing on a Megathron, But that mega cant hit you from 50km with blasters. And yes, we cant tackle from 50km, however... this IS a multiplayer game, Tacklers 4tw #Recons, The curse (And to a lesser extent Pilgrim) is the closest thing to a solo-pwnmobile your going to get. Able to take out most ships solo bar missiles spewing beasts. Which is ok by me considering our OTHER ships rip a shield tank to peices #NPC'ing for the solo player, My char has just made his way deep into 0.0 , He WONT return to a station or to empire for a good month as he's making some isk for a dread. No other races ships are capable of being self sufficient in 0.0 for any length of time. #Gang Combat, 10 Armageddon VS 10 Whatever the hell you want... Assuming the geddons cant be forced to engage at their attackers range my moneys on the geddons every time. (And no I'm not on about gang combat of sitting at 220km+ shooting a primary.... Thats best left to the sheep) #Targets, Despite what whiney fanbois allways moan about "everyone armor tanks!!11" I have to say their talking a lot of crap, Or they need to move regions. Ravens and scorps (and now drake's etc) are used all over the damn place! Including small gangs where their used in MASSIVE numbers despite the Caldari "we cant PvP" chants [CONCLUSION] Seriously, shut the ** up ! There's nothing wrong with Amarr at all. We could prehaps use a bit more diversity in our ships, and Omni tanks could 'Prehaps' do with a little nerf. But our ships themselves are fine as they are !! (Cept maybe the Apoc... Is there any reason to fly it anymore ?) Alliaanna** It IS great being Amarr, Aint It !!!!!!! DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Shandling Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:23:00 - [2] I was getting ready for another Amarr whinefest. Bravo!
Symb Everway Minmatar Multiversal Enterprise Inc.	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:23:00 - [3] Unless you can come up with a decent acronym for it, "F.U.B.A.R.E.D." doesn't make any sense. If you can come up with one, more power to ya.
Shandling Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:24:00 - [4] Edited by: Shandling on 28/12/2006 08:24:01 Originally by: Symb Everway Unless you can come up with a decent acronym for it, "F.U.B.A.R.E.D." doesn't make any sense. If you can come up with one, more power to ya. Fully Undressed Boobs Are Rectifying Erectile Dysfunction?
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:29:00 - [5] Originally by: Shandling Edited by: Shandling on 28/12/2006 08:24:01 Originally by: Symb Everway Unless you can come up with a decent acronym for it, "F.U.B.A.R.E.D." doesn't make any sense. If you can come up with one, more power to ya. Fully Undressed Boobs Are Rectifying Erectile Dysfunction? What he said ^ Sorry, My speeling is poo Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Olavane Riftsnake Cosmic research and production services Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:29:00 - [6] Mostly I agree with you. But, know what? We have to spec much more than other races to compete with them. Amarr are not for noobs
Shandling Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:31:00 - [7] Originally by: Olavane Riftsnake Mostly I agree with you. But, know what? We have to spec much more than other races to compete with them. Amarr are not for noobs And Minmatar need to diversify more than other races in order to compete... /shrug Every race has their strong points and weak points.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:32:00 - [8] Originally by: Olavane Riftsnake Mostly I agree with you. But, know what? We have to spec much more than other races to compete with them. Amarr are not for noobs Kinda, but not to the extent of minnies. My 600k Sp in missiles says i'm not too fussed about cross training different weapon systems Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:33:00 - [9] This thread will not make people shut up, it will spawn more discussions... but nice try! --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
IgnisFatuus	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:34:00 - [10] Edited by: IgnisFatuus on 28/12/2006 08:35:15 Quote: Mostly I agree with you. But, know what? We have to spec much more than other races to compete with them. lol. Dont say that to a minmatar character
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:35:00 - [11] Originally by: IgnisFatuus Originally by: Jim McGregor This thread will not make people shut up, it will spawn more discussions... but nice try! lol. Dont say that to a minmatar character I fly only minmatar ships myself, so what are they going to say to me? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Ignis Caveat	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: IgnisFatuus Originally by: Jim McGregor This thread will not make people shut up, it will spawn more discussions... but nice try! lol. Dont say that to a minmatar character I fly only minmatar ships myself, so what are they going to say to me? you're a forum ***** and you caught me quoting the wrong post :p
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:36:00 - [13] Originally by: Ignis Caveat you're a forum ***** and you caught me quoting the wrong post :p Ok. Better luck next time. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
IgnisFatuus	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:37:00 - [14] damn alt post
Shandling Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:39:00 - [15] Edited by: Shandling on 28/12/2006 08:38:55 totally useless post irrelevant to anything going on Edit: Sorry, just going with the flow.
Destr0math Tritanium Workers Union	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:56:00 - [16] Yet another addition to the long list of reasons i'm your ingame groupie. good luck "deep in 0.0!" send us a tell when/if you come back to lowsec :)
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.28 08:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Destr0math Yet another addition to the long list of reasons i'm your ingame groupie. good luck "deep in 0.0!" send us a tell when/if you come back to lowsec :) Woohoo I have groupies I shall return once i've made another 1.4bill God knows how long that will take, Depends how long the missus lets me play my "silly computer game" Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Shandling Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.28 09:00:00 - [18] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Originally by: Destr0math Yet another addition to the long list of reasons i'm your ingame groupie. good luck "deep in 0.0!" send us a tell when/if you come back to lowsec :) Woohoo I have groupies I shall return once i've made another 1.4bill God knows how long that will take, Depends how long the missus lets me play my "silly computer game" Alliaanna I want to be your groupie just because of that sexy ass horse in your sig.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.28 09:02:00 - [19] For 100mill Isk you can come and ride the evil bastid (Ride as in HORSE RIDING you sick assed mofo's ) Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Shandling Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.28 09:08:00 - [20] Edited by: Shandling on 28/12/2006 09:08:12 Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii For 100mill Isk you can come and ride the evil bastid (Ride as in HORSE RIDING you sick assed mofo's ) Alliaanna I'll let you touch my sock monkey if you let me ride your beast
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.28 09:09:00 - [21] Originally by: Shandling Edited by: Shandling on 28/12/2006 09:08:12 Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii For 100mill Isk you can come and ride the evil bastid (Ride as in HORSE RIDING you sick assed mofo's ) Alliaanna I'll let you touch my sock monkey if you let me ride your beast Giggles Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.28 09:10:00 - [22] God damn it ! I've de-railed my own thread Back to the Amarr being fine issue you fools !!! Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Shandling Minmatar	Posted - 2006.12.28 09:20:00 - [23] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii God damn it ! I've de-railed my own thread Back to the Amarr being fine issue you fools !!! Alliaanna Who can complain about sock monkey fondling and beast riding?
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2006.12.28 09:47:00 - [24] Give all of the Amarr ships that have utility hi slots +1 launchers and I'll fly my geddon until its t2 variant comes out. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Svett Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2006.12.28 10:55:00 - [25] Please complain often and loudly, I really want my zealot to do even more damage. :)
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.28 11:05:00 - [26] I agree,some things can be changed with amarr here and there(ships that are wtf mostly khanid ones)but most of their ships are great. Oh yeah and the pew pew(thats what made me switch from minmatar to amarr)the bang bang gave me a headache __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr.
Leo Balthur Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.28 11:10:00 - [27] why no whine ?? /me gets cheese and wine OMG NEWBZ NERF EANM II, NERF IT !!!
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2006.12.28 12:19:00 - [28] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 28/12/2006 12:21:59 Armageddon is good. Pilgrim/Curse/Arbitrator is good. But... What about the rest? Frigs -> Horrible Cruisers/HACs -> Horrible... Zealot looks cool but that is about it. Absolution -> EANM2 tanks make it
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.28 12:21:00 - [29] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/12/2006 12:21:31 Originally by: Leo Balthur why no whine ?? OMG NEWBZ NERF They did it to the Hurricane, so I wouldnt even joke about it... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.12.28 12:27:00 - [30] caldari in pvp tend to armor tank half of the time also you're saying amarr pro's in consensual situations ''assuming you're not forced to engage at range'' these are the things that generally do happen =)
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.28 12:38:00 - [31] harbringer is good abaddon is good... executioner is good every race have bad shops.... likebreeze, bellicose, maesltrom If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
cy4n1d3	Posted - 2006.12.28 12:41:00 - [32] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Edited by: Alliaanna Dalaii on 28/12/2006 08:30:27 My take on the Amarr situation [Background] I've flown Amarr since 08.2004 and have a specialised Amarr character. 10mill Sp in energy turrets and gunnery and not far from flying my capital ship. I'm also an outlaw and been PvP'ing exclusively for my isk for allmost a year and a half. The Problems/Downsides To Amarr #We are predictable, A lot of our ships have few midslots and no other options such as Missiles/Drones/EW. #We do less damage to Omni Tanks. #Our tech I ships generally only get 1 REAL bonus as i'm sure we all agree the cap cost of lasers which was supposedly introduced to stop other races using our guns is kinda silly nowadays, They dont want to use our lasers anyway #Our tanks are exactly on par with every other race, We DO NOT tank any better. #A set of large Tech II ammunition for a Bs is the equivilant of carrying an uninsured tech I Bs in our cargohold.... Yay Amarr Strengths #Mid Range Damage, Our considered by many "Best" weapon the Mega Pulse II can be highly effective from 15 - 50km. With impressive DPS within these ranges. Ok it's got nothing on a Megathron, But that mega cant hit you from 50km with blasters. And yes, we cant tackle from 50km, however... this IS a multiplayer game, Tacklers 4tw #Recons, The curse (And to a lesser extent Pilgrim) is the closest thing to a solo-pwnmobile your going to get. Able to take out most ships solo bar missiles spewing beasts. Which is ok by me considering our OTHER ships rip a shield tank to peices #NPC'ing for the solo player, My char has just made his way deep into 0.0 , He WONT return to a station or to empire for a good month as he's making some isk for a dread. No other races ships are capable of being self sufficient in 0.0 for any length of time. #Gang Combat, 10 Armageddon VS 10 Whatever the hell you want... Assuming the geddons cant be forced to engage at their attackers range my moneys on the geddons every time. (And no I'm not on about gang combat of sitting at 220km+ shooting a primary.... Thats best left to the sheep) #Targets, Despite what whiney fanbois allways moan about "everyone armor tanks!!11" I have to say their talking a lot of crap, Or they need to move regions. Ravens and scorps (and now drake's etc) are used all over the damn place! Including small gangs where their used in MASSIVE numbers despite the Caldari "we cant PvP" chants [CONCLUSION] Seriously, shut the ** up ! There's nothing wrong with Amarr at all. We could prehaps use a bit more diversity in our ships, and Omni tanks could 'Prehaps' do with a little nerf. But our ships themselves are fine as they are !! (Cept maybe the Apoc... Is there any reason to fly it anymore ?) Alliaanna** It IS great being Amarr, Aint It !!!!!!! You can't tackle from 50k? Here's a little tip: Heavy web drones.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.28 12:43:00 - [33] I dont agree that Maelstrom is a bad ship... maybe compared to the Rohk, but hey, caldari is basicly designed to be better than the rest in the storyline. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Abaroth Charmar	Posted - 2006.12.28 13:08:00 - [34] Originally by: cy4n1d3 Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Edited by: Alliaanna Dalaii on 28/12/2006 08:30:27 My take on the Amarr situation [Background] I've flown Amarr since 08.2004 and have a specialised Amarr character. 10mill Sp in energy turrets and gunnery and not far from flying my capital ship. I'm also an outlaw and been PvP'ing exclusively for my isk for allmost a year and a half. The Problems/Downsides To Amarr #We are predictable, A lot of our ships have few midslots and no other options such as Missiles/Drones/EW. #We do less damage to Omni Tanks. #Our tech I ships generally only get 1 REAL bonus as i'm sure we all agree the cap cost of lasers which was supposedly introduced to stop other races using our guns is kinda silly nowadays, They dont want to use our lasers anyway #Our tanks are exactly on par with every other race, We DO NOT tank any better. #A set of large Tech II ammunition for a Bs is the equivilant of carrying an uninsured tech I Bs in our cargohold.... Yay Amarr Strengths #Mid Range Damage, Our considered by many "Best" weapon the Mega Pulse II can be highly effective from 15 - 50km. With impressive DPS within these ranges. Ok it's got nothing on a Megathron, But that mega cant hit you from 50km with blasters. And yes, we cant tackle from 50km, however... this IS a multiplayer game, Tacklers 4tw #Recons, The curse (And to a lesser extent Pilgrim) is the closest thing to a solo-pwnmobile your going to get. Able to take out most ships solo bar missiles spewing beasts. Which is ok by me considering our OTHER ships rip a shield tank to peices #NPC'ing for the solo player, My char has just made his way deep into 0.0 , He WONT return to a station or to empire for a good month as he's making some isk for a dread. No other races ships are capable of being self sufficient in 0.0 for any length of time. #Gang Combat, 10 Armageddon VS 10 Whatever the hell you want... Assuming the geddons cant be forced to engage at their attackers range my moneys on the geddons every time. (And no I'm not on about gang combat of sitting at 220km+ shooting a primary.... Thats best left to the sheep) #Targets, Despite what whiney fanbois allways moan about "everyone armor tanks!!11" I have to say their talking a lot of crap, Or they need to move regions. Ravens and scorps (and now drake's etc) are used all over the damn place! Including small gangs where their used in MASSIVE numbers despite the Caldari "we cant PvP" chants [CONCLUSION] Seriously, shut the ** up ! There's nothing wrong with Amarr at all. We could prehaps use a bit more diversity in our ships, and Omni tanks could 'Prehaps' do with a little nerf. But our ships themselves are fine as they are !! (Cept maybe the Apoc... Is there any reason to fly it anymore ?) Alliaanna** It IS great being Amarr, Aint It !!!!!!! You can't tackle from 50k? Here's a little tip: Heavy web drones. Pwnt
Calisto Cody Minmatar The Black Swan Society	Posted - 2006.12.28 13:08:00 - [35] i would like an omen that didnt suck too :) Grimkill > He said . . .. I don't know why you wear a bra; you've got nothing to put in it. <br>She said .. . You wear pants don't you?
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2006.12.28 13:09:00 - [36] Whoever said our frigs are bad, Die in flames,Punisher is a great tech I frig (We are missing one frigate though... ) As to our cruisers, they're not quit as 'pwn' as some other cruisers... urr but who cares. They can still be effective And They're still better than Caldari cruisers. Each race has it's downsides. I mean look at the poor bloody race that got a Target painter bonus to it's recons I'd have blobbed CCP headquaters if that had been given to the Curse Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
cy4n1d3	Posted - 2006.12.28 13:26:00 - [37] Originally by: Jim McGregor I dont agree that Maelstrom is a bad ship... maybe compared to the Rohk, but hey, caldari is basicly designed to be better than the rest in the storyline. Maelstrom is a good ship, it just has ****ty bonuses. Now if it had 5% damage/rof per level, it might be half decent. But as it stands now, it's not worth paying 300mil for.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2006.12.28 13:30:00 - [38] Originally by: cy4n1d3 Originally by: Jim McGregor I dont agree that Maelstrom is a bad ship... maybe compared to the Rohk, but hey, caldari is basicly designed to be better than the rest in the storyline. Maelstrom is a good ship, it just has ****ty bonuses. Now if it had 5% damage/rof per level, it might be half decent. But as it stands now, it's not worth paying 300mil for. if that was the case it would've completely made the tempest useless
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.12.28 13:32:00 - [39] Originally by: cy4n1d3 Maelstrom is a good ship, it just has ****ty bonuses. Now if it had 5% damage/rof per level, it might be half decent. But as it stands now, it's not worth paying 300mil for. Depends... personally im getting one for lvl 4 mission running, and im really looking forward to putting the Raven in the trashbin where it belongs. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
cy4n1d3	Posted - 2006.12.28 13:33:00 - [40] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: cy4n1d3 Originally by: Jim McGregor I dont agree that Maelstrom is a bad ship... maybe compared to the Rohk, but hey, caldari is basicly designed to be better than the rest in the storyline. Maelstrom is a good ship, it just has **ty bonuses. Now if it had 5% damage/rof per level, it might be half decent. But as it stands now, it's not worth paying 300mil for. if that was the case it would've completely made the tempest useless Uh, no. Tempest is a fast AC boat. Mael is slow as **, so it's meant to be an Arty boat. Anyway I'd rather be flying a nice Maelstrom than a useless Tempest.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2006.12.28 13:48:00 - [41] Maelstrom is just uncapable of focusing on a task. it is too slow to go Ac and its main bonus dont help much on arties. Notice the fun stuf? matarians kidnaping ammarian threads for a change! If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Almarez	Posted - 2006.12.30 04:35:00 - [42] First let me start by saying that I agree with most of what you are saying. Secondly, let me say that I have over 7 mil SP in gunnery, laser specialzed. Now let me explain to you why I disagree. 1) Omni-tanks should not be nerfed, they are the only things that trully save us from the dreaded Caldari, with their omni-damage type missle boats. 2) Omni-tanks are a problem but only because there is already a high resistance to EM for the armor of all ships. This causes the omni-tanks to have an insane resistance to EM, many times way over 80. This leaves lasers with basically one damage type. While thermal is a nice damage type, the fact that it is so widely used, also leaves people to tank heavily for it. 3) It is too easy to armor tank ships that are "supposed" to be shield tanked. Which, because of #2, is a serious problem. 4) Even for the ships that are shield tanked, if and when you get past the shields, because of #2 you run back into another "tank". Maybe this "tank" doesn't rep but it has high resistance to lasers primary damage type. 5) The diversity thing is a huge deal. The geddon has 3 med slots. So, while other BS can jam you, warp scramble you, web you, or whatever you need to basically fit the essentials, some combination of tracking comps, a sensor boosters, ab, cap injectors, cap rechargers. Usually, tracking comp cap injector, and sensor booster. See the thing is this. When people complain about other races, they usually complain about a certain ship that needs a boost, when people complain about Amarr, they are usually unhappy with the race as a whole. This really should say something. I don't think that there is some wierd coincidence that all of the whiney people that join Eve happen to be Amarr.
Spei Prodetor	Posted - 2006.12.30 04:44:00 - [43] Originally by: Symb Everway Unless you can come up with a decent acronym for it, "F.U.B.A.R.E.D." doesn't make any sense. If you can come up with one, more power to ya. F.U.B.A.R. - Redneck for ; F*cked Up Beyond All Recognition the ED is just an addon =)
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.30 05:18:00 - [44] Originally by: cy4n1d3 You can't tackle from 50k? Here's a little tip: Heavy web drones. Just make your target warp away faster. Unless they invented warp scrambling drones since the last time I logged off, 10 minutes ago. Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Whoever said our frigs are bad, Die in flames,Punisher is a great tech I frig (We are missing one frigate though... ) As to our cruisers, they're not quit as 'pwn' as some other cruisers... urr but who cares. They can still be effective And They're still better than Caldari cruisers. Each race has it's downsides. I mean look at the poor bloody race that got a Target painter bonus to it's recons I'd have blobbed CCP headquaters if that had been given to the Curse Alliaanna The Punisher suffurs the same problem that the Harbinger does. Its good... for an Amarran ship. Compared to the rest of the field it is not, its slow, heavy, doesnt do a lot of damage, is unable to fit a web and a scram[which is bad for a slow and heavy frig], and is very cap reliant. And as for Cruisers, no they pretty much suck[aside from the Arbi, which is a Gallente boat at heart]. The Maller, in all situations, is better when it fits AC's or Blasters than when it fits lasers, it has better damage, more survivability, easier fitting with the blasters or AC's. But if you are going to fit AC's why not a rupture? And if you are going to fit blasters, why not a thorax? It is the best tanking cruiser, but in order to have a good tank, its got to fit a plate and the plate means it handles like a Prophecy. Which is still better with autocannons. The Omen is just right out. It does less damage than a maller until you have very high skills and if you have those skills you might as well fly a bigger ship or move into a HAC anyway. It also tanks like a wet noodle. Before the Harbinger, the only reason to train lasers was for the Armageddon, The Zealot, the Absolution, the Retribution, and the Crusader. Wooo, im sure you can see my joy from here. Four tech 2 ships and 1 tech one. Now we have those + the Harbinger, which in a close range setting isnt nearly as good as the Hurricane[Hurricane does the same DPS, excpet its weapons dont use cap, do better damage types, and it can fit a dual MARII injected MWD tank without fitting mods, is smaller, faster, less massive, and a better signature resolution] or Brutix[7 guns, a tanking bonus and electrons do more DPS than Heavy Pulses], and I am sure, in a long range+tackler setting the Drake will outperform it. It has a niche with beams in small groups, not that you can fit beams on the thing anyway and still use a gang mod or tank, but hey, its king of the BC's in damage from 20-60km pending me bothering to check the Drakes DPS in those ranges. So what it really comes down to is that the OP's post says "Hey Amarr is fine because the Armageddon is O.K!" And that is plain *****s. The fact that we have a single tech 1 ship that can be classified as "good" is just pathetic[Which would be passable if the tech 2 ships were* of the walk, which they arent(Vagabond and Astarte, im looking at you)]. That we are outclassed in nearly every specialized role, and in the specialized roles we are good at, we have to use other racial weapons[tanking with proph/maller on BC/C level] is a clear indicator of the problems with Amarran ships. Originally by:** Spei Prodetor Originally by: Symb Everway Unless you can come up with a decent acronym for it, "F.U.B.A.R.E.D." doesn't make any sense. If you can come up with one, more power to ya. F.U.B.A.R. - Redneck for ; F*cked Up Beyond All Recognition the ED is just an addon =) Actauly started in the military afaik. Along with S.N.A.F.U. "Situation Normal: All F'd Up" ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Felio	Posted - 2006.12.30 05:31:00 - [45] I personally enjoy being amarr, the only thing I think needs any sort of tweaking are our battleships. I'm 20mil SP pure amarr specced so I fly pretty much everything amarr, and battleships are the only ones I really don't touch.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.30 05:47:00 - [46] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Maelstrom is just uncapable of focusing on a task. it is too slow to go Ac and its main bonus dont help much on arties. Knew I forgot something. Nah, the Maelstrom is just an Amarran philosophy boat[in the abstract not specific], but actauly achieving the Amarran philosophy[In that you can fit to both tank and gank at the same time, something the Amarran Battleships cannot do] It ganks and tanks while being big slow and heavy. It warps in, shoots at things that are close to it doing lots of damage and tanks damage. In order to truly shine you can stick falloff rigs on it. This will put your falloff with Fusion around 30km[45 with Barrage], and you will still have powergrid to spare. Then you just warp in, target something and start the shield boosters, wait till it explodes, target the next something, wait till it explodes. Etcera. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.30 06:08:00 - [47] Edited by: Dillius Archania on 30/12/2006 06:15:44 Well since you seem very experienced with Amarr, and as I'm a newb who has fallen into believe much of the whining, I would appreciate some advice. Bout to hit 4mil skillpoints and just got an Apocalypse for ratting and missions. I haven't used it much yet (As I'm skilling up a bit more to protect my investment). I've been using mostly a Prophecy in L3 missions and have a few questions. 1. How should I handle Guristas and Angels and the like? I find myself having to warp in and out a bit in order to handle them as typically I can not kill groups off fast enough for my tank to hold. My typical technique is starting for off with beams and Radio crystals and slowly working my way down the crystals in range until they are within multifrequency range. At which point I tank as hard a5 S+B2¦rtí+b3éSßg»<pOªPr/+¦íó¯+çP·0zìAôÉ+PZÅ#f-)÷úNn gunnery and i have the cap size skill to 3 and the cap recharge time skill to 4. Problem I see is there are Caldari pilots with as many SP's as me farming 4's already like they are a joke, and yet I have to deal with these problems that come primarily because Guristas and Angel BC class ships have extremely ridiculous EM resistances. Since none of our crystals are even 50% thermal, It's basically just a grind anyways. 2. If I am in a PvP situation against anything with Nos, what should be my concern? Guns or tank? Since it's impossible to worry about both typically, particularly with something draining that lifeblood known as "cap", should I focus on one or just kiss my arse goodbye? (Yes I understand that this is not exclusively an amarr problem, however your cap empties pretty freaking fast with guns, active hardeners, and NOS going on). 3. Missles. What freaking chance do I have here, really? We're not fast, our crystals that extend to that kind of range are ridiculously weak (Radio crystals SUCK. I try to not even use them and just AB into Microwave range at the least, further draining that precious lifeblood capacitor). I haven't tried defender missles, even in such a case I have to sacrifice valuable high slots for them and this is assuming the ship has launcher hardpoints. I just find it disheartening. Cool little ships with other races have interesting bonuses. Wow, this ship has X bonus and Y bonus, it's designed for Z use. Amarr? We have Cap use plus X. Whatever this X is is typically not very defining for any particular ship. And yes, I realize that a number of our ships don't have this bonus. That just makes it even more fun for those of us with low skill points and not nearly enough money for faction mods. 90% of our freaking ships have cap use as an ability, and most of the good ones are either 5% damage or 5% resistances per level. Wow, what fun. What missions I have done with my apocalypse have consisted of me setting a course, turning on the 7 highest level pulses, and alt tabbing till I no longer hear the sound of the lasers or I hear the sound of an explosion. It's freaking boring. Is it that much to ask that we be given some ability for variety? I'd be happy with primarily thermal damage crystals. That'd make a world of difference in some missions, increasing our DPS by upwards of 10-15%. A low percentage? Yes. Noticeable when you have to kill 30-40 enemies? Heck yes. Noticeable when ratting? Very. PvP? Could make a world of difference. Sure, this EM tears Caldari shield tanks apart. But lets have some fun shall we? From now on, ALL missiles are only Explosive with about 20% damage in one other damage type, and ONLY that damage type. Lets do the same for projectile and hybrid guns. Not fair? Explain to me why. I'll accept it if I'm totally mistaking something here. No doubt of that. I'm a 4mil SP newb. But if you freaking tell me to wait till I have more skill points, you'll just be proving that Amarr are nerfed as they need more SP's to function than other races. I could be experiencing the popular "Caldari Online" experience if I wanted a cake walk.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.30 06:48:00 - [48] 1. Handling enemies that tank a lot of EM and Therm. Drones/Projectiles/Hybrids If you dont have a damage bonus, why bother using lasers? Especialy since you are fighting enemies which tank lasers well. You either need drone skills to take them out, or should put different weapons on your ship. Rails/Blasters do well on a prophecy. Rails are less damage than beams, but its the right damage, and Blasters are more damage than pulses, and use less cap. Rails are better for missions. Same with Autocannons/Projectiles. Autocannons wont do much damage, but its the right kind of damage, uses no cap, and you will have boatloads of powergrid to spare for your tank. Arties use no cap as well, have great falloff and while they dont to a lot of DPS, they do the right kind for the mobs you want to deal with. And it comes all at once, which means that you will kill frigs based only on your cycle time. Since Medium Hybrids/Projectiles are so easy to get into[for tech 1 at least] and you have some BC skills, crosstraining to bonused ships like the brutix or the Cyclone/Hurricane isnt a terrible idea if you want to run missions in them. The other option is to simply power through it with blunt force and patience. This isnt a great option. And yes, I know how bad it sounds to say "The best way to kill angel rats with an Amarr ship is to train Minmatar"[Caldari also works, and the drake is a fabulous ratter] 2. It depends, and it mainly depends on how long it is going to take help to arrive. If help is arriving and I think its tankable until then, focus on the tank. If help isnt arriving you might as well put some hurt on them before you explode, and hey maybe you will get lucky. Chances are though, you wont. If someone has a big NOS setup on you, and help isnt arriving, your best bet it to try and leave, other than that, you are up a very brown creek without a paddle. 3. Missiles dont do a lot of damage compared to the big turrets, we cant really beat them, but any of the slow ships cant either. You either have to close the distance or leave. If someone has points on you and you are being bombarded by missiles from 50km away, and you cant kill the thing with points and cant close to the missile spammer, then yea, you are toast. Then again, so is about any other ship in that situation. P.S. T2 Projectiles are damage locked, and all hybrids are as well. Most missile boats only get damage bonuses to Kinetic damage as well, which, while it doesnt rule out other damage types, makes Kinetic missiles a favorite for PvP in many ships. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.30 06:58:00 - [49] Originally by: Goumindong P.S. T2 Projectiles are damage locked, and all hybrids are as well. Most missile boats only get damage bonuses to Kinetic damage as well, which, while it doesnt rule out other damage types, makes Kinetic missiles a favorite for PvP in many ships. Explain "damage locked". Furthermore, there's a difference between "Damage bonus only applying to Kinetic" and physically not being able to do another damage type. And I know that, indeed, Amarr ships can equip non-laser weapons, but considering it's the core behind the entire race, that's just freaking retarded, and the Devs should see that. Perhaps the better topic of discussion should be "Lasers are freaking gimp" rather than "Amarr are freaking gimp", as it seems that most of our ships that DON'T use lasers are pretty nice. The real issue is the fact that Amarr + Lasers kind of go hand in hand, so likely a lot of the people complaining about Amarr are actually complaining about lasers.
Scordite	Posted - 2006.12.30 07:08:00 - [50] Obligatory wikipedia link: FUBAR. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.30 07:18:00 - [51] Originally by: Dillius Archania Originally by: Goumindong P.S. T2 Projectiles are damage locked, and all hybrids are as well. Most missile boats only get damage bonuses to Kinetic damage as well, which, while it doesnt rule out other damage types, makes Kinetic missiles a favorite for PvP in many ships. Explain "damage locked". Furthermore, there's a difference between "Damage bonus only applying to Kinetic" and physically not being able to do another damage type. And I know that, indeed, Amarr ships can equip non-laser weapons, but considering it's the core behind the entire race, that's just freaking retarded, and the Devs should see that. Perhaps the better topic of discussion should be "Lasers are freaking gimp" rather than "Amarr are freaking gimp", as it seems that most of our ships that DON'T use lasers are pretty nice. The real issue is the fact that Amarr + Lasers kind of go hand in hand, so likely a lot of the people complaining about Amarr are actually complaining about lasers. Tech 2 Projectiles only do Explosive/Kinetic Hybrids only do Kinetic/Thermal. The only turrets that can change damage type are tech 1 projectiles and its fairly limited changes. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.30 07:22:00 - [52] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Dillius Archania Originally by: Goumindong P.S. T2 Projectiles are damage locked, and all hybrids are as well. Most missile boats only get damage bonuses to Kinetic damage as well, which, while it doesnt rule out other damage types, makes Kinetic missiles a favorite for PvP in many ships. Explain "damage locked". Furthermore, there's a difference between "Damage bonus only applying to Kinetic" and physically not being able to do another damage type. And I know that, indeed, Amarr ships can equip non-laser weapons, but considering it's the core behind the entire race, that's just freaking retarded, and the Devs should see that. Perhaps the better topic of discussion should be "Lasers are freaking gimp" rather than "Amarr are freaking gimp", as it seems that most of our ships that DON'T use lasers are pretty nice. The real issue is the fact that Amarr + Lasers kind of go hand in hand, so likely a lot of the people complaining about Amarr are actually complaining about lasers. Tech 2 Projectiles only do Explosive/Kinetic Hybrids only do Kinetic/Thermal. The only turrets that can change damage type are tech 1 projectiles and its fairly limited changes. Still, two damage types is better than one. I'd bout be satisfied simply if they added frequency crystals that did majority Thermal minority EM.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.30 07:28:00 - [53] Originally by: Dillius Archania Still, two damage types is better than one. I'd bout be satisfied simply if they added frequency crystals that did majority Thermal minority EM. Lasers do EM/Therm damage... Projectiles and Hybrids have the same issues, projectiles to a lesser extent, Hybrids just as much. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.30 07:48:00 - [54] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Dillius Archania Still, two damage types is better than one. I'd bout be satisfied simply if they added frequency crystals that did majority Thermal minority EM. Lasers do EM/Therm damage... Projectiles and Hybrids have the same issues, projectiles to a lesser extent, Hybrids just as much. Yes, but there is not a single frequency crystal in the game that makes lasers do MAJORITY Thermal. Heck, there's not even one in which Thermal is 50% of the damage. (Unless Scorch, which I have no experience with yet, breaks this rule)
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.30 07:52:00 - [55] Edited by: Goumindong on 30/12/2006 07:52:34 link Yea, same for hybrids ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.30 07:57:00 - [56] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 30/12/2006 07:52:34 link Yea, same for hybrids Thanks for the clear up. I guess it just comes down to an issue of the usefullness of different damage types at this point.
OrangeAfroMan Minmatar Suffoco Noctis Atrocitas	Posted - 2006.12.30 08:19:00 - [57] MegaPulse Geddon + Berserkers = Win. :D
Brother Tycho Amarr Shadows of the Dead Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2006.12.30 08:26:00 - [58] i got **ed off sticking AC's and blasters on my amarr ships so i cross trained matar and gallent amarr do have problems in pvp fights are 150km plus or web ranges so a high optimal short range weapon with e tracking is ***** piontless. It's great being Amarr, aint it? --------------------------------
xHalcyonx Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2006.12.30 08:26:00 - [59] Originally by: Dillius Archania Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Dillius Archania Still, two damage types is better than one. I'd bout be satisfied simply if they added frequency crystals that did majority Thermal minority EM. Lasers do EM/Therm damage... Projectiles and Hybrids have the same issues, projectiles to a lesser extent, Hybrids just as much. Yes, but there is not a single frequency crystal in the game that makes lasers do MAJORITY Thermal. Heck, there's not even one in which Thermal is 50% of the damage. (Unless Scorch, which I have no experience with yet, breaks this rule) Gleam has a slight majority to thermal: EM 14/ Therm 16
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.30 08:27:00 - [60] Originally by: xHalcyonx Gleam has a slight majority to thermal: EM 14/ Therm 16 Not anymore, its 14/14 now and the range penalty is now 75% instead of 50% ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Lygos Amarr ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.30 09:58:00 - [61] Can you imagine if EM and Thermal swapped places in terms of traditional resists? There would be riots in London. The thermal drone whine threads alone would be astronomical. --- T2 Risk \| Corp Divisions
Dillius Archania Amarr Ceryshen Interglobal Technologies Vanu Space Command	Posted - 2006.12.30 22:28:00 - [62] Bump for more arguments
kublai Short Attention Span	Posted - 2006.12.30 23:01:00 - [63] Having a character with about 27m amarr SP myself, I agree with most of what you say. I think our guns and energy bonuses should be re-worked, they're not imbalanced in either direction, but they are silly and a remnant of a very old game. I'll train t2 auto cannons in a month and see how I like them instead.
Anar Amone Amarr Legion Of The Lost Guardians	Posted - 2006.12.31 03:45:00 - [64] Alliaana, I must say nice post, I've been doing testing on my beams and I'm able to hit targets over 100km out and still able to tank fairly well, and this is doing L4 missions. The only problem is, that set up isn't much good for close range combat. So I am still doing experiments. Just wish the naysayers would do a little research and learn their race instead of wanting the "i win" button handed to them.
Dammar Amarr Ephorate	Posted - 2006.12.31 04:51:00 - [65] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii some pmsing.. You are not funny. You are not smart. You need to stfu. That about covers it.
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2006.12.31 06:34:00 - [66] Originally by: Thor Xian Give all of the Amarr ships that have utility hi slots +1 launchers and I'll fly my geddon until its t2 variant comes out. please remove a high slot from the merlin, moa, and eagle, and give it another turret hardpoint + enough pg to fit it.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial	Posted - 2006.12.31 07:09:00 - [67] Edited by: Goumindong on 31/12/2006 07:11:58 Originally by: Audri Fisher Originally by: Thor Xian Give all of the Amarr ships that have utility hi slots +1 launchers and I'll fly my geddon until its t2 variant comes out. please remove a high slot from the merlin, moa, and eagle, and give it another turret hardpoint + enough pg to fit it. !? The merlin moa and eagle are not missile boats... Thor asked for missile slots on empty utility highs in turret boats. So for recriprocation you ought to be asking for missile slots on all those ships to fill up their highs... Which they already have in spades. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2006.12.31 10:36:00 - [68] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Edited by: Alliaanna Dalaii on 28/12/2006 08:30:27 My take on the Amarr situation [Background] I've flown Amarr since 08.2004 and have a specialised Amarr character. 10mill Sp in energy turrets and gunnery and not far from flying my capital ship. I'm also an outlaw and been PvP'ing exclusively for my isk for allmost a year and a half. The Problems/Downsides To Amarr #We are predictable, A lot of our ships have few midslots and no other options such as Missiles/Drones/EW. #We do less damage to Omni Tanks. #Our tech I ships generally only get 1 REAL bonus as i'm sure we all agree the cap cost of lasers which was supposedly introduced to stop other races using our guns is kinda silly nowadays, They dont want to use our lasers anyway #Our tanks are exactly on par with every other race, We DO NOT tank any better. #A set of large Tech II ammunition for a Bs is the equivilant of carrying an uninsured tech I Bs in our cargohold.... Yay Amarr Strengths #Mid Range Damage, Our considered by many "Best" weapon the Mega Pulse II can be highly effective from 15 - 50km. With impressive DPS within these ranges. Ok it's got nothing on a Megathron, But that mega cant hit you from 50km with blasters. And yes, we cant tackle from 50km, however... this IS a multiplayer game, Tacklers 4tw #Recons, The curse (And to a lesser extent Pilgrim) is the closest thing to a solo-pwnmobile your going to get. Able to take out most ships solo bar missiles spewing beasts. Which is ok by me considering our OTHER ships rip a shield tank to peices #NPC'ing for the solo player, My char has just made his way deep into 0.0 , He WONT return to a station or to empire for a good month as he's making some isk for a dread. No other races ships are capable of being self sufficient in 0.0 for any length of time. #Gang Combat, 10 Armageddon VS 10 Whatever the hell you want... Assuming the geddons cant be forced to engage at their attackers range my moneys on the geddons every time. (And no I'm not on about gang combat of sitting at 220km+ shooting a primary.... Thats best left to the sheep) #Targets, Despite what whiney fanbois allways moan about "everyone armor tanks!!11" I have to say their talking a lot of crap, Or they need to move regions. Ravens and scorps (and now drake's etc) are used all over the damn place! Including small gangs where their used in MASSIVE numbers despite the Caldari "we cant PvP" chants [CONCLUSION] Seriously, shut the ** up ! There's nothing wrong with Amarr at all. We could prehaps use a bit more diversity in our ships, and Omni tanks could 'Prehaps' do with a little nerf. But our ships themselves are fine as they are !! (Cept maybe the Apoc... Is there any reason to fly it anymore ?) Alliaanna** It IS great being Amarr, Aint It !!!!!!! Yeah we need 20 mill sp to use the good amarr ships. Yes we know that. How about the balance for ppl that only have 1, 5 or 10 mill sp? These ppl cant use a geddon, curse or absolution efficiently or at all. There should be a fair balance between races at lower sp aswell. I know many high sp amarr spec chars do say there is not much wrong with amarr but have you ever thought that you maybe fighting ppl with half your sp? If you have 20-25 mill sp you may stumble across ppl with less sp more often then more sp. So experience doesnt really prove as much as you think.

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