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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.29 04:03:00 - [1] Heavy missile launchers II cost 131k to build and people are selling them at 13m. CCP FIX INVENTION PLEASE FFS
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.12.29 04:17:00 - [2] it's not ccp's problem, CCP don't mess with the market, if you want it pay that price as nothing ccp can do will fix it but they may break it. they have givn us invention, use it.
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.29 04:35:00 - [3] Edited by: Ishmael Hansen on 29/12/2006 04:35:19 Originally by: Vincent Almasy it's not ccp's problem, CCP don't mess with the market, if you want it pay that price as nothing ccp can do will fix it but they may break it. they have givn us invention, use it. No they haven't, invention is a joke atm, and a bad one. Easier to get isk to buy a tech 2 bpo mining in an ibis then to invent something. So stop trolling, it's about time CCP takes then win button away from you.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.12.29 06:24:00 - [4] From me? Oh, from my support of not messing with the player driven system make me a owner of a T2 BPO, if so I am a t2 BPO short. If you didn't notice anything and evrything is sold at the highest price the market will bear so as long as they are willing to deal with it, they will stay high. Invention is no joke, you want to make t2 you work for it and word hard. data cores are the easy part the other part you need to search for and i hear you need a strong attack team for it so suit up and fight. As a matter of fact don't, leave more areas for me to find and then make everything i need for t2 production and have you still whine about the marked up price. If the item was over priced, no one would buy it and then they will sell lower for people to buy it. it stays high only because people pay that high, remember that.
Ciara Daag	Posted - 2006.12.29 09:27:00 - [5] What he means is,"ccp didnt give me a way to make all the tech II want for nothing, and Im mad as heck about it"
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.12.29 10:17:00 - [6] There's a grand total of THREE (count them) types of T2 modules with this kind of a humongous markup. Those items are Heavy Missile Launcher II, Cargo Expander II and Cap Recharger II. Both cost almost nothing to produce, but sell for huge prices. Short of maybe HAC BPOs (arguably their price will go down even further with the new tier2 BCs around), those two types of blueprints are the most profitable blueprints in EVE. Now, you are saying that if nobody would buy, the sellers would lower the prices ? Bah, humbugh ! Do you have ANY IDEA HOW MANY blueprints of those three kinds exist, on one hand ? And on the other hand, HOW MANY TYPES OF SHIPS use them ? ___ Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy missiles might be mainly used by Caldari cruisers/battlecruisers, however Minmatar ships also supplement their damage delaing with them, and on occasion even other race's ships get to use them in smaller amounts. So basically, about one quarter of the hardpoints of ships in the "medium" class (if not one third, because let's be honest, the Drake is a major seller nowdays) in the entire game are filled with heavy missiles. NO, heavy assaults just don't cut it yet, the range is insanely small, usually too small to be of good practical use on the ships that might use them in large numbers (and don't even get me started on what it takes to fit a good tank and speedmods plus HAMLs on the Drake). Sure, HAML-IIs might become pretty popular (with Javelin) for the versatility, but to be honest, I'd rather fit Heavies only and be done with it myself. Well, suffice to say "they get used a lot, more than any other weapon of same caliber" (medium). Now, how many OTHER T2 weapons of same caliber exist in the game ? Guess what, at least 3x2x2=12 others. So, does that mean there's 12 (or at least 6 times) more T2 HML BPOs in the game ? WRONG. There's EXACTLY as many T2 HML BPOs as there's any other T2 "M" weapon BPOs. In other words, the MAXIMUM POSSIBLE supply can NOT EVEN THEORETICALLY get close to the demand COMPARED to other T2 medium weapons. The clear conclusion is, even if they would climb up to 15 or even 20 mil, people will still buy them, maybe not as fast as they do now, but the overall profits for the manufacturers would remain roughly the same (ever so slightly decrease), while at the same time stockpiling more reserves for personal or alliance use. ___ Now... do I even need to bother explaining why Cap Recharger IIs and expanders are so expensive ? _ My skills \| Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2006.12.29 10:22:00 - [7] It's not the T2 manufacturers, it's not the reselers, it's not the buyers. The "free market" system works PERFECTLY, and matches supply with demand. The only problem is that there is an ARTIFICIAL shortage in supply due to a huge discrepancy between the amount of BPOs in existance and the module's usage statistics. So, yes, it is ONLY CCP'S FAULT and nobody else's. They should not "dumb seed" a fixed amount of BPOs for each weapon type, but look at where that item is currently used, and adjust the total number of BPOs released accordingly. If they somehow finally did that (although I kind of doubt it), I apologize _ My skills \| Mod/Rig stacknerfing explained
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.29 11:24:00 - [8] Don't feed the greedy and unproductive market manipulating resellers with their massive wallets. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter.	Posted - 2006.12.29 11:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Ciara Daag What he means is,"ccp didnt give me a way to make all the tech II want for nothing, and Im mad as heck about it" This is just a typical tech 2 bpo owner quote. Meanwhile you DO have a way to make all the tech 2 you want for nothing without having any kind of work nor any risk, nothing. Just the "luck" from getting a bpo. You playing eve on god mode, and your view is "ccp don't touch the market cos I'm a filhy rich bastard and I wanna stay this way, the other 99% of eve who cares for them"
Tachy	Posted - 2006.12.29 18:15:00 - [10] Originally by: Ishmael Hansen Originally by: Ciara Daag What he means is,"ccp didnt give me a way to make all the tech II want for nothing, and Im mad as heck about it" This is just a typical tech 2 bpo owner quote. Meanwhile you DO have a way to make all the tech 2 you want for nothing without having any kind of work nor any risk, nothing. Just the "luck" from getting a bpo. You playing eve on god mode, and your view is "ccp don't touch the market cos I'm a filhy rich bastard and I wanna stay this way, the other 99% of eve who cares for them" For most T2 BPO the factory time is better spend on building T1 goods from an economical point of view. At least if you're interested in the most efficient outcome of any given time for your wallet. Envious Bastard vs. Greedy Economist PvP at its best (to bad in this aspect a calculator and a clear head would show to which group you belong) --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
krazy2	Posted - 2006.12.29 20:36:00 - [11] not all T2 bpo's make money. I've got the T2 ammo bpo's 1 light missil, 1 heavy missil, 1 cruise, they literally are a pain in butt to make, theres no volume in sells, so much compition to get rid of the silly amo you made that the prices are all unload to get rid of, no one buy's the stuff and a lot of the bpo owners seem to have shelved the bpo and aren't producing it anymore. probly is the fact that not enough bpo owners for the demand of the item. cause the ammo bpo sure is one crap item if you look at in terms of trying to make yourself rich. probly a useless reply... o well.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2006.12.30 04:01:00 - [12] then how about this more kinds of t2 bpc from research agents, will that make it better?
Tunajuice Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.31 21:36:00 - [13] Well they could see BPOs off of use.. so for example if 500 Heavy Launcher IIs are lost in a given day to being blown up, but only 250 of the whatever the cruiser sized auto cannon is.. then twice as many heavy launcher II BPOs should be around compared to the similar auto cannon bpo. Do they do this at all now? Seems like they don't.. hence crow is flown and blown up the most ---> crow cost the most of any inty. So to fix this the logical thing to do would be to seed a little more crow bpos compared to the less popular ones...
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.01.02 00:46:00 - [14] Originally by: Tunajuice Well they could see BPOs off of use.. so for example if 500 Heavy Launcher IIs are lost in a given day to being blown up, but only 250 of the whatever the cruiser sized auto cannon is.. then twice as many heavy launcher II BPOs should be around compared to the similar auto cannon bpo. Do they do this at all now? Seems like they don't.. hence crow is flown and blown up the most ---> crow cost the most of any inty. So to fix this the logical thing to do would be to seed a little more crow bpos compared to the less popular ones... I don't see why it is a shortage from this logic.. If something is bought the most it costs the most. Simple as that. If everyone wants one, it costs the most, simple as that.
Xcom Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.02 13:44:00 - [15] The idea behind invention is to create a way for people to go were the isk is. If Heavy Missile Launcher T2Æs are profitable inventors will invent that stuff. Seeding of BPOs was a major mistake on CCPs part. Giving a lucky few BPOs that produced items of such extreme demand that it made them absolute. Giving them the absolute power by mire lottery. You might say, the world is not fare and some get lucky. Well I doubt CCP wanted to make a game utterly unbalanced with that analogy. From what I read EVE had a profession called industry and production. All people talk about is balancing pvp. What about the industrial side of this game. Is it me or am I mistaken to think that the industry of this game looks like some retarded joke. T2 doesnÆt mean much for empire mission runners but for 0.0 PVP players itÆs effectively essential to the point of a must. T2 fleets have such a major upper hand that it turns the tied of wars. BoB and ASCN is just an example. If invention could be fixed so it actually worked. It would be worth wile investing some time and skills into. As it is now it doesnÆt seam like a proper functional system. So many points of the invention being flawed. This is invention as of now. Skill for months to be able to research for a ridiculous number of 6 R&D agents. Millions of skill points in science to get the capability to get one datacore each 5-15 days. To try inventing a BPC with unknown runs. To top it off, maybe failing the invention and losing your incredibly expensive datacors. It sounds very promising. The closest comparison I could draw would be. Climbing Everest after 6 months of training, skilling and wasting expensive gear, to Jump of the edge and hoping your parachute will open. All of it for a small cookie waiting for you when you get down. I only hope they will fix it, instead of adding new toys and waste time on expanding the game. You donÆt decorate the elephant in the middle of the room. You either get rid of it or admit you wonÆt do anything about it.
Exelsior Endangered Species	Posted - 2007.01.02 14:32:00 - [16] Edited by: Exelsior on 02/01/2007 14:33:43 The problem is that the market is awfully unrealistic. Please, irl monopolies on products are created through market share taking strategies and years of wealth gaining and brand trust building. In eve monopolies on t2 markets are created through luck, and artificial supply shortages. If irl you spend years of R&D to get a new product and then patent it, in Eve you win the patent through a lottery. Irl people don't just buy patents on products from others, they develop their own competing products. This happens in 99% of cases. In eve it's impossible. You can only buy these patents (BPOs) at massive prices. All that CCP has to do is make the effort spent on working for R&D agents be equivalent to the reward. It isn't atm, because it's not only a lottery, it's also one you have to work a lot for, with the likelihood that you will gain nothing. If CCP change the system to an LP type of reward system, it will be both farer, and better. Yes you will **** off the t2 Magnates, but they're a small minority. The majority are those that suffer from the high prices on modules and very high market entry costs for tech II manufacturing.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.01.02 15:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Exelsior If CCP change the system to an LP type of reward system, it will be both farer, and better. Yes you will **** off the t2 Magnates, but they're a small minority. The majority are those that suffer from the high prices on modules and very high market entry costs for tech II manufacturing. Dude, thats EXACTLY what invention does. There is an entry cost, there has to be, but its far, far from the cost of getting the actual golden T2 BPO's. T2 BPO's as such where a bad idea to start with, but they are out there now, and with the insane amounts of money pople have payed for most of them, CCP would kill off most of the game if they changed them to bpc's now. Its just a "no can do". Please do notice that most T2 BPO's are owned "second hand", that is the produceres actually payed to get it. For the broad middle ground of T2 bpo's that means they have to earn themselfs home first over a long period of time to be really profitable. This is just like the T1 market really. CCP actually proposed the idea of actioning more BPO's into the game. Sadly they decided to seed them instead, which just really doesn't help at all. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf

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