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new players disadvantage wrt older players. players die.

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Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1599	Posted - 2015.10.26 22:14:45 - [31] - Quote In reality a 3 month character is all you need to wipe the floor with a brand new character. A better suggestion is wipe all characters after 3 months. That will revive EVE. Be sure.
Markus Reese Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 714	Posted - 2015.10.26 22:18:48 - [32] - Quote Why is is bad that rookies and veterans are a one sided match in equal numbers? Power for longevity in game and SP doesnt mean isk so a high sp player with low activity can easily be outgunned by a hardcore player. All eve needs is to have more dynamic combat to encourage usage of low sp players in established groups. Nobody should be able to stand alone unless they are on top. To quote Lfod Shi The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Jenshae Chiroptera 2333	Posted - 2015.10.26 22:37:42 - [33] - Quote Markus Reese wrote: Why is is bad that rookies and veterans are a one sided match in equal numbers? .... ... because there should be more newbies than veterans but they are molstly hiding in High Sec for a year or so before quitting? The original post makes me think that EVE needs more Darwin steps to filter out certain types of players. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 25520	Posted - 2015.10.26 23:11:27 - [34] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: because there should be more newbies than veterans but they are molstly hiding in High Sec for a year or so before quitting? I think other games can be blamed a little for that, so many encourage rapid levelling of characters and the whole epic gear mentality that goes with it. Quote: The original post makes me think that EVE needs more Darwin steps to filter out certain types of players. Indeed, although CCP themselves are encouraging those players who come expecting instant epic battles in space and get presented with hisec, pushed into PvE by the NPE, and the realisation that the epic battles often require months of far more mundane activities and are fairly rare. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Mostlyharmlesss GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 212	Posted - 2015.10.26 23:47:50 - [35] - Quote Serious post: You do realize that MoA leadership is most likely going to kick you for humiliating the alliance publicly like this. Follow me on Twitter for the latest regarding GoonSwarm Federation and our recruitment drives!
Memphis Baas 715	Posted - 2015.10.27 00:21:53 - [36] - Quote You're trying to make this about skillpoints and newbie vs. veterans, but realize this: No MMO game will EVER delete old accounts or old characters, because they all function based on the concept of player retention, and the moment you give players the idea that all the effort they put into a character is a waste of time (because it will be deleted, or even if there's a bug that erases a few skillpoints), they will leave and the MMO won't get its money. You are basically telling CCP to trade the $15/month that they get from their current (veteran) playerbase for the possibility of getting $15/month from theoretical newbies who may like to "catch up to the veterans." Bird in hand is better than two in bush. They will never do it. People take breaks from EVE for years, all the time. Someone who played since 2003 would theoretically have 220 million skillpoints, but CCP published the "highest skilled character" statistic a couple years ago and it was something like 140 million. So even the one guy who played since the beginning took several years of breaks. I'd guess most people get bored at about 120 or so. Two races of subcaps + dread and carrier is about 80-100 million SP. "Do everything" all subcaps + dread + carrier is about 120. Frigate to battleship + all support skills at 4 is 20 million, T2 weapons is 40 million, T2 subcaps with a lot of skills at 5 is 60 million. Basically, at 40-60 million points (2.5 years) you're as good at the most popular part of the game (subcaps) as the veteran. Nobody ever forces deletion of characters (permadeath), WoW, Swtor, EQ, nobody does it. It's easier to attract a paused subscription back to the game than it is to get a brand new subscription. You only get new subscriptions based on how "good" your game is; you get the old guys back simply by running a promo, or discount, or offering some free paintjobs or whatever. It's much easier, but not if you've deleted their characters. This is why it's a stupid idea.
Paranoid Loyd 7302	Posted - 2015.10.27 00:31:52 - [37] - Quote Bobb Bobbington wrote: I say we kill everybody over 70 in real life because all they do is eat, sleep, and socialize and are a burden on society. Heh "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Paul Pohl blue media poetry 22	Posted - 2015.10.27 03:06:09 - [38] - Quote jedi2015 wrote: This way new characters will be able to compete with old characters they can now - no need to cheat
A Good Poster Hedion University Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2015.10.27 05:19:51 - [39] - Quote Spergia strong.
Dead-Jesus Texas Hole'em 0	Posted - 2015.10.27 10:14:56 - [40] - Quote jedi2015 wrote: No life without death. And yet in eve death , permadeath, doesnt seem to exist. As long as you dont voluntarely biomass your character, the character keeps aging further. Lets ccp kill all characters after f.e. 15 (earth) years. This way new characters will be able to compete with old characters and it will probably also solve a lot of other issues. Old players who have a f.e. 12 year old character, can then begin a new character in time, to be able to have a capable character of 3 years old by the time there 15 year old character dies, furtherig their dynasty. LOL U *^$%^-ú^-ú-ú
Gully Alex Foyle Black Fox Marauders 4245	Posted - 2015.10.27 10:34:31 - [41] - Quote The dynasty part was funny. Can the OP, or anyone somewhat sharing his views, explain to me what 'competing with high-SP characters' means to them? No troll, I actually do not understand. EVE is a persistent universe, that's one of its core foundations. As a new member of this community, you enter in a massive world shaped by thousands of players over more than a decade. This in itself is pretty f*ing awesome, no MMO dev team could ever create such a complex and living world as PVE content. Now, as a new dude, what do you want to do in this huge place that has a real history? I'd say it boils down to 2 main options: 1. Do your own thing and have fun, without the ambition to 'change New Eden'. This is entirely possible from day one, you can PVE, PVP, play the market, etc... with great success just a few months in. Anybody that thinks otherwise please provide a few examples why you think this is not possible. 2. Become 'someone important' aka 'space relevant'. To do this, the single most important thing is the capability to organize, motivate and lead other players. This is a personal characteristic, not everybody has it, but it's 100% OUT-OF-GAME. So again, you can start building your personal empire from day one, if you have what it takes. Really guys, exactly where do you see this 'competing' or 'catching up' problem in EVE??? Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Aoife Fraoch Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 205	Posted - 2015.10.27 10:57:23 - [42] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: The dynasty part was funny. Can the OP, or anyone somewhat sharing his views, explain to me what 'competing with high-SP characters' means to them? No troll, I actually do not understand. EVE is a persistent universe, that's one of its core foundations. As a new member of this community, you enter in a massive world shaped by thousands of players over more than a decade. This in itself is pretty f*ing awesome, no MMO dev team could ever create such a complex and living world as PVE content. Now, as a new dude, what do you want to do in this huge place that has a real history? I'd say it boils down to 2 main options: 1. Do your own thing and have fun, without the ambition to 'change New Eden'. This is entirely possible from day one, you can PVE, PVP, play the market, etc... with great success just a few months in. Anybody that thinks otherwise please provide a few examples why you think this is not possible. 2. Become 'someone important' aka 'space relevant'. To do this, the single most important thing is the capability to organize, motivate and lead other players. This is a personal characteristic, not everybody has it, but it's 100% OUT-OF-GAME. So again, you can start building your personal empire from day one, if you have what it takes. Really guys, exactly where do you see this 'competing' or 'catching up' problem in EVE??? I am curious about this one too. At least in my experience most of the time the actions of older, higher SP characters have no greater impact on me and my activities than those of the same age or younger. Perhaps we should just make EVE a single player game and remove all of those other pesky characters ruining everyone's experience?
Deck Cadelanne CAStabouts 261	Posted - 2015.10.27 19:27:25 - [43] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Celise Katelo wrote: Such a stupid idea This deserve to be repeated. Again...and again...and again... *"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."* - Hunter S. Thompson
Johnny Riko Jump Drive Appreciation Society Test Alliance Please Ignore 83	Posted - 2015.10.27 19:43:32 - [44] - Quote I know this is a troll thread, but CCP should really add a dislike button. I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
BirdStrike State War Academy Caldari State 94	Posted - 2015.10.27 20:47:31 - [45] - Quote Johnny Riko wrote: I know this is a troll thread, but CCP should really add a dislike button. We need ECM to block posts- specifically ******** ideas jamming, although for certain individuals a multispectral is highly appropriate.
Takoma Panala State War Academy Caldari State 13	Posted - 2015.10.27 22:53:13 - [46] - Quote OP, On a scale from one to invade Russia during winter, how bad would you rate your own idea?
Darian en Chasteaux Aliastra Gallente Federation 91	Posted - 2015.10.27 23:24:37 - [47] - Quote Greetings, Simply put...I disagree with the OP. I have 6+Mil SP - I am a new char still. I know how to lose - I know how to win - If this was the case I would have to literally start over; I have had enough of starting over in games; I want to play WoW Retail. Darian PS I dont play WoW anymore.
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 25542	Posted - 2015.10.28 00:43:32 - [48] - Quote Takoma Panala wrote: OP, On a scale from one to invade Russia during winter, how bad would you rate your own idea? I'd rate it at telling Cersei Lannister that you know her secrets. Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Hal Morsh Hmmzor. 425	Posted - 2015.10.28 00:47:46 - [49] - Quote Go play star citizen. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Otso Bakarti Filial Pariahs 407	Posted - 2015.10.28 00:48:50 - [50] - Quote jumps on the dog pile Fear of death follows from fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time. -Mark Twain -
Hal Morsh Hmmzor. 425	Posted - 2015.10.28 00:49:30 - [51] - Quote Takoma Panala wrote: OP, On a scale from one to invade Russia during winter, how bad would you rate your own idea? I recently though about this. It means Canada would be another pain in the ass to invade. If the bears don't kill you, the winters will. Or is it if the winters don't kill you the bears will... I can't figure out which. Dun'Gal > Hal is simply an imperfect ai, though if drunkeness ever gets programmed into ai's I foresee both a hilarious and tragic end to humanity.
Jarod Garamonde Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn 2600	Posted - 2015.10.28 01:31:32 - [52] - Quote jedi2015 wrote: I had a whole reply ready , but chrome ate my reply. Read up on some cyber scifi, people die all the time there with clones and all. :) I wish Chrome had eaten your OP as well.... That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... `[#savethelance]`
DaReaper Net 7 2641	Posted - 2015.10.28 03:09:51 - [53] - Quote dumb idea.. however i think eve should have perma death, on special charters is you chose to play that way OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining! Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
Jarod Garamonde Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn 2601	Posted - 2015.10.28 04:28:33 - [54] - Quote DaReaper wrote: dumb idea.. however i think eve should have perma death, on special charters is you chose to play that way That was discussed at last year's EVE Vegas event, and I thought it was pretty cool. I wonder what became of that idea? That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... `[#savethelance]`
jedi2015 The Unlisted Mordus Angels 2	Posted - 2015.10.28 22:05:39 - [55] - Quote Gully Alex Foyle wrote: The dynasty part was funny. Can the OP, or anyone somewhat sharing his views, explain to me what 'competing with high-SP characters' means to them? No troll, I actually do not understand. EVE is a persistent universe, that's one of its core foundations. As a new member of this community, you enter in a massive world shaped by thousands of players over more than a decade. This in itself is pretty f*ing awesome, no MMO dev team could ever create such a complex and living world as PVE content. Now, as a new dude, what do you want to do in this huge place that has a real history? I'd say it boils down to 2 main options: 1. Do your own thing and have fun, without the ambition to 'change New Eden'. This is entirely possible from day one, you can PVE, PVP, play the market, etc... with great success just a few months in. Anybody that thinks otherwise please provide a few examples why you think this is not possible. 2. Become 'someone important' aka 'space relevant'. To do this, the single most important thing is the capability to organize, motivate and lead other players. This is a personal characteristic, not everybody has it, but it's 100% OUT-OF-GAME. So again, you can start building your personal empire from day one, if you have what it takes. Really guys, exactly where do you see this 'competing' or 'catching up' problem in EVE??? From the beginning on the eve-online forums, there were questions from players who started later, then the original ones about that they will never be able to catch up in skillpoints with regards to players who played from the beginning. Which is true. If you started earlier and as the concept of skillpoints is to gain points constantly, the ones who start later will never be able to catch up to the ones in front, as long as the ones in front doesnt stop skilling. This leads to guys having already up to 280 million skillpoints. http://eveboard.com/ranks And instead of ccp telling there newbie players ok, you will never catch up to those earlier players in skillpoints, to give them something, they give them things like, removing learning skills, starting with 400k instead of 50k skillpoints, skills for dollars (in the future) and sell it as this will let the newbie players catch up, which is ofcourse not the case. Personally I think the current concept is flawed. And I think setting a fixed date on the characters age is something to consider. As this will solve the issue of catching up, even if its only a perception issue. But perception is reality. About players ragequitting because there characters will be deleted. I dont think so, some might, but most will accept it, if they see that everyone is getting resetted when there times comes.. And there is something else, subscriptions numbers are dwindling, plexes as a derivative of subscription numbers are also dwindling, which means the amount of incoming new players is lower then the amount of older leaving players. If ccp will want to survive they will need to do something to reverse this trend, which only can be by attracting more new players, as the old players alone will not be enough, to keep the game above water. A radical (conceptual) change will need to be performed, probably likely, earlier, then later. PS. Oyes my character, was created in 2015 , when I returned to eve after a 5 year absense. I could have choosen to resurrect my old character , with a lot more skillpoints then my current character, but i choose not to. It really doesnt make that much difference, skills to train are skills to train ..
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1600	Posted - 2015.10.28 22:44:42 - [56] - Quote Hal Morsh wrote: Takoma Panala wrote: OP, On a scale from one to invade Russia during winter, how bad would you rate your own idea? I recently though about this. It means Canada would be another pain in the ass to invade. If the bears don't kill you, the winters will. Or is it if the winters don't kill you the bears will... I can't figure out which. You mean like when Richard Montgomery and Benedict Arnold invaded Canada in 1775 and tried to attack Quebec during a snowstorm ?
Jonah Gravenstein Machiavellian Space Bastards 25547	Posted - 2015.10.29 02:37:35 - [57] - Quote jedi2015 wrote: From the beginning on the eve-online forums, there were questions from players who started later, then the original ones about that they will never be able to catch up in skillpoints with regards to players who played from the beginning. Which is true. If you started earlier and as the concept of skillpoints is to gain points constantly, the ones who start later will never be able to catch up to the ones in front, as long as the ones in front doesnt stop skilling. This leads to guys having already up to 280 million skillpoints. http://eveboard.com/ranks While true that you'll never be able to match total skill points, only a small portion of their skill points is applicable to what they're flying; if it's a subcap you can match the applicable skill point investment fairly quickly, what you can't match is their experience. Quote: And instead of ccp telling there newbie players ok, you will never catch up to those earlier players in skillpoints, to give them something, they give them things like, removing learning skills, starting with 400k instead of 50k skillpoints, skills for dollars (in the future) and sell it as this will let the newbie players catch up, which is ofcourse not the case. They're not selling it as a catchup, they're selling it as a booster. The diminishing returns are too brutal for it to be sold as a catchup. Quote: Personally I think the current concept is flawed. And I think setting a fixed date on the characters age is something to consider. As this will solve the issue of catching up, even if its only a perception issue. But perception is reality. Your perception is what's flawed. The need to catch up doesn't exist outside of your head. Quote: About players ragequitting because there characters will be deleted. I dont think so, some might, but most will accept it, if they see that everyone is getting resetted when there times comes.. And there is something else, subscriptions numbers are dwindling, plexes as a derivative of subscription numbers are also dwindling, which means the amount of incoming new players is lower then the amount of older leaving players. Which part of the phrase "persistent universe" did you fail to understand when you read/heard about Eve? You don't arbitrarily reset a persistent universe, especially one as old as Eves. Doing so alienates the players who have provided, and still are providing, its history and have cemented its place in history; look at how well that worked out for UO and SWG. Any downturn in subs is part of the general downturn in MMO numbers, which in turn is probably down to the state of the world economy. Quote: If ccp will want to survive they will need to do something to reverse this trend, which only can be by attracting more new players, as the old players alone will not be enough, to keep the game above water. A radical (conceptual) change will need to be performed, probably likely, earlier, then later. PS. Oyes my character, was created in 2015 , when I returned to eve after a 5 year absense. I could have choosen to resurrect my old character , with a lot more skillpoints then my current character, but i choose not to. It really doesnt make that much difference, skills to train are skills to train .. CCP will survive, while Eve is the moneymaker it's not the only iron they have in the fire, Dust is profitable, Valkyrie ticks a lot of boxes for the casual gamer, the cost of VR gear will make or break it and Gunjack is in the pipeline. If it doesn't make a difference, why the terrible ideas and concern? Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business. Nil mortifi sine lucre.
Johan Civire Caldari Provisions Caldari State 987	Posted - 2015.10.29 04:48:27 - [58] - Quote jedi2015 wrote: No life without death. And yet in eve death , permadeath, doesnt seem to exist. As long as you dont voluntarely biomass your character, the character keeps aging further. Lets ccp kill all characters after f.e. 15 (earth) years. This way new characters will be able to compete with old characters and it will probably also solve a lot of other issues. Old players who have a f.e. 12 year old character, can then begin a new character in time, to be able to have a capable character of 3 years old by the time there 15 year old character dies, furtherig their dynasty. Wrong game pal The Sims is that way ----->
Divine Entervention Rational Chaos Inc. Phoebe Freeport Republic 744	Posted - 2015.10.29 05:39:50 - [59] - Quote All these dudes worried about how they're going to suffer perma losses due to their no longer being able to rely on their skill point advantage. Sorry the prospect of having to get good rattles your bones, bads. feel free to contract me all your belongings when you quit because you can't handle how bad you are when "noobs" finally have the chance to kill you since you can't crutch skillpoints over your lack of player ability any longer. #thebest
Jarod Garamonde Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn 2612	Posted - 2015.10.29 07:06:19 - [60] - Quote Divine Entervention wrote: All these dudes worried about how they're going to suffer perma losses due to their no longer being able to rely on their skill point advantage. Sorry the prospect of having to get good rattles your bones, bads. feel free to contract me all your belongings when you quit because you can't handle how bad you are when "noobs" finally have the chance to kill you since you can't crutch skillpoints over your lack of player ability any longer. #thebest SP just allows you to use things. How well you use them, depends on player skill, not SP. A guy like me is going to be just as good with 1mil as I am with 90mil. The only difference will be what ships I can fly and what modules I can fit..... for a while, that is. And I've done some pretty impressive work with all different kinds of T1 ships. It would only take me about 9 months to get back into a Ferox with nearly-maxed support skills. Good players will keep being good players, no matter what. This is not a hard concept to understand. You can't "crutch" SP in this game. If you could, buying a 2005 toon on eBay would be an instant win button.... but, every PvPer knows that isn't how it works. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... `[#savethelance]`

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