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Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 07:43:47 - [91] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: No one is trying to delete wardecs Literally, no. Just like awoxing, you want it made toothless so that it fundamentally fails to work. Quote: You have said yourself that wardecs are meant to be a conflict driver in HS, yet their current iteration is actually a hindrance to conflict as both entities have no stake and/or incentive in the fight, thus they try to avoid unfavorable conflict. So basically, you're claiming that because some people can't play the game correctly, the mechanic should be thrown away. It exists to proliferate conflict and act as a loss driver. Right now, it does that. You want it to act less so, regardless of your ever shifting goalposts. You should realize that I will never consider you to be acting in good faith. You've proven before, and repeatedly in this thread, that you will flow through any number of justifications for a nerf. I see through your crap. Quote: yes, everything in Eve reflects player freedom but wardecs, in their current form, go to say that your player freedom trumps the player freedom of your intended target even if that target is willing to make the conflict consensual as you can then dictate whether or not you engage with them. This lie again? No one has the right to not defend themselves. Wardecs do not take any player freedom away from the defender, because no one has the "freedom" to be safe to begin with in this game while they are undocked. "Never defending myself" is not a playstyle. The only reason ships exist is to be destroyed. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 07:46:32 - [92] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: They made the change on their own accord in order to drive player interaction and retention. Yet more lies. If awoxing happened at all for people to complain about, then people were recruiting. The change was made to "solve" a literal non problem. It was an obvious false flag. It came from nothing but tears, like every carebear centric change, and just like every time that has happened it has taken away player interaction and lessened this game. You people will never be satisfied until this game is dead, will you? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Felsusguy Aliastra Gallente Federation 362	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:04:39 - [93] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: You people will never be satisfied until this game is dead, will you? Yes, because that's exactly what someone playing the game would want. For it to be dead. Anyway, the change was almost certainly something CCP did of its own volition. People have been crying about AWOXers for a long time, and I find it hard to believe CCP would suddenly do something about it after all that time if it were truly in response to player complaints. Back on topic, I think the real problem here is that you view wars as just a way to circumvent CONCORD. There are a lot of reasons why this is wrong, most notably the fact that CCP has always frowned on circumventing CONCORD and it's unlikely they would create a mechanic specifically for doing so without good reason. The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 994	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:13:59 - [94] - Quote Kaarous, I am beginning to think it is you that is playing the wrong game. See, the thing about EVE is that choices have consequences, and non-consent works in both directions. The way wardecs are applied right now, that is not true. The 'deccer has no skin in the game. He cares nothing for the price of the 'dec, his ship, or even his Pod. His time is fun because he gets everything he wants just by having the risk free option to shoot people. The once in a blue moon someone does manage to kill him is nothing because everything he put on the field was worth nothing to him. The 'decced have everything to lose. PvE actually do care about their ships, rightly or 'wrongly', they do tend to have structures to shoot, and care about their Pod. Their time is valuable only when they can spend it having fun, which the 'dec is preventing. It is the wardeccers that are in fact killing this part of the game. By being pointlessly malignant to as many people as you can, fun as it is to your twisted, perverted and sickly sadistic point of view, you are turning new people away and older people off of the game entirely. If you had to put an expensive, time intensive, and vulnerable structure in space to be able to place and keep a wardec then you finally have some skin in the game. You have a real conflict driver, not just a hunting license. But it's ok, I understand that to a compromised mind like yourself it's perfectly acceptable for the burden of risk to only fall on your opponents and that these considerations should not apply to you.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:14:42 - [95] - Quote Felsusguy wrote: Yes, because that's exactly what someone playing the game would want. For it to be dead. That's what you lot did to Ultima Online, so... yep. Quote: Back on topic, I think the real problem here is that you view wars as just a way to circumvent CONCORD. That is the only reason they exist. Because Concord shouldn't, but they have to charge a fee to act as an isk sink. Go ahead, find me any dev statements about any of the nonsense you've been spewing. The mechanic does not exist to satisfy your maladjusted sense of e-honor, or whatever other excuse you want to switch to next. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:19:36 - [96] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: The 'deccer has no skin in the game. He cares nothing for the price of the 'dec, his ship, or even his Pod. That's called having the right attitude. Anyone who seriously "cares" for losses, or feels "pain" for them is mentally ill. Yes, I'm having fun playing the game as I see fit. That's exactly what a sandbox is for. And as for "skin in the game", he is risking the same thing the defender is, his undocked ships. And that's equitable and fair. But as I've said before, and you have repeatedly demonstrated, you don't want fair. You want a huge imbalance in your favor. Quote: PvE actually do care about their ships, rightly or 'wrongly' No, just wrongly. The rules of the game should not change just because they have bad attitudes and aren't suited to the reality of the game. Quit already. You hate what EVE is, you want it to be twisted and broken until it's not recognizable, just to satisfy your inability to admit that you don't belong here. Quote: By being pointlessly malignant to as many people as you can, fun as it is to your twisted, perverted and sickly sadistic point of view, you are turning new people away and older people off of the game entirely. Like you always do, you lie. You carebears need a new narrative. The "PvP makes people quit!" one has been broken for a while. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:23:52 - [97] - Quote The attacker has "skin in the game", just like every other player in the game does. His ships. If you were sincere in your desire to actually hurt the attacker, instead of just seeking an easy road to free safety, then you already possess a means to do so. Blow up his ships. Just like he's trying to do to you. If you are unwilling or unable to do that, then you deserve to keep on losing. And nothing makes people so mad as getting what they deserve. That's why you're here in the first place, to try and change the rules to salve your cognitive dissonance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 981	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:25:17 - [98] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Literally, no. Just like awoxing, you want it made toothless so that it fundamentally fails to work. literally, NO.. I don't want it to be made toothless, I just want to be able to actually use my teeth. That's a bit hard to do, considering every time I show my teeth, the deccer docks up. Quote: So basically, you're claiming that because some people can't play the game correctly, the mechanic should be thrown away. It exists to proliferate conflict and act as a loss driver. Right now, it does that. You want it to act less so, regardless of your ever shifting goalposts. You should realize that I will never consider you to be acting in good faith. You've proven before, and repeatedly in this thread, that you will flow through any number of justifications for a nerf. I see through your crap. I never once said the mechanic should be thrown away, I said it should be changed. Yes.. A loss driver... However, you refuse to accept any suggestions where the loss could potentially be your own. I don't have to consider your good faith because you and I are both aware that you have no good faith on this thread. You have proven time and time again that you will flow through any number of BS falsities in order to keep the system from changing in anyway that gives the defender any value. I can't see through your crap, cause that's all it is. Quote: This lie again? You know it's not a lie... You are here, specifically saying that your preferred method of game play trumps mine and that I should be forced into your preferred style and provided with no means counter that isn't already meekly provided. You have been specifically speaking of player freedom as your wardecs over my PVE. Quote: Yet more lies. If awoxing happened at all for people to complain about, then people were recruiting. The change was made to "solve" a literal non problem. It was an obvious false flag. Yet again you and I are both aware that this isn't a lie. CCP would not have made the change if it hindered player interaction more than the mechanic itself. I've tried to be more civil with you, up until this point. It is widely apparent that you have no interests in providing any mechanic that has even the slightest bit of measurable value for the defender. I have disagreed with others on this and the other thread, but in the case of you, it's no longer a disagreement. It has instead become similar to watching a bitter old man yell at kids for playing video games because he doesn't like them. Go sit in the corner and let someone with more relevance and an actual argument take over for those who wish to leave the wardec system as is. You are only hurting their cause.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:27:57 - [99] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: I don't want it to be made toothless, I just want to be able to actually use my teeth. See my post above. If you were sincere in your desire to harm the attacker, you possess the same means to do so that he does. Blow up his ships. But you aren't sincere. You lack the capacity. Quote: That's a bit hard to do, considering every time I show my teeth, the deccer docks up. Exactly like the defender does. I guess we should just get rid of stations. Or, if docking bothers you so much, go live in a wormhole. Or, in your case, go play a different game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Joe Risalo State War Academy Caldari State 981	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:37:48 - [100] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Quote: That's a bit hard to do, considering every time I show my teeth, the deccer docks up. Exactly like the defender does. But wait.. I thought wardecs were a conflict driver, as per your own words? You're speaking of conflict avoidance... How can this be? You mean to tell me that players have been avoiding conflict within wardecs, just as I have state? Seriously man.... This is the last time I'm even going to acknowledge you, because at this point, if you can't see through your own crap, you're hopeless.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 995	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:38:00 - [101] - Quote Anyone that does not care for the game, or really any hobby, should not be playing it. They should go do something they consider fun instead. Doing unfun things for leisure is what would be mentally unstable. Kaarous, you have a problem. You are so bent you cannot even see how deep the dreck you are spewing really is. Fortunately there are places you can go in this game that perfectly suit your own playstyle... pretty much anywhere except Highsec. The rest of the game, barren wasteland that it is, does not have concord to muck up your right to unrestricted pvp. except of course the people living there are happy with the idea of pvp and will shoot back. I suppose that messes with your fun more than a little. Threads on fixing wardecs will keep arising because the system is not good. The Devs are so fixated on emergent gameplay rather than real development of EVE as a game that they have not taken the steps yet, but the day will come when playstyles other than predatory pvp are supported, and when that happens this sort of mechanic will change for the better. You don't get to be the arbiter of what is right or wrong with other people's playstyles.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:40:55 - [102] - Quote Joe Risalo wrote: But wait.. I thought wardecs were a conflict driver, as per your own words? They are, liar. They exist to proliferate conflict and drive loss. The mere ability to dock doesn't change that, they're two different things entirely. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 996	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:55:56 - [103] - Quote There is that word 'liar' again. It really does not mean what you think it means. Having an opinion that differs from your own is not telling a lie. In fact, given the context, having a differing opinion from you is actually adding credibility since your own vitriol is nothing but pure dreck. You cannot ignore people's motivations for fighting when evaluating aggression. The people getting decced have no motivation to fight, and aspire to do other things in the game. You are too stuck up your own bung hole to understand that not everyone wants to mindlessly shoot at other people all the time, or else you do understand and it just satisfies your own sickness to prevent them from having fun.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 08:59:43 - [104] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: There is that word 'liar' again. Yep. Quote: It really does not mean what you think it means. It refers to people who are fundamentally dishonest, like you and Joe have repeatedly proven yourselves to be. Quote: You cannot ignore people's motivations for fighting when evaluating aggression. The people getting decced have no motivation to fight, and aspire to do other things in the game. What they "aspire" to do does not matter in literally any way. If they can't fight for what they "aspire" to, they don't belong in a player corp. That's not me talking, that's CCP themselves. You don't automatically get something merely because you want it. Suggesting such is the epitome of entitlement. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 996	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:10:29 - [105] - Quote You are completely narcissistic, you know that? What they aspire too does not matter to you. It is all that matters to them. Games are played for fun. They aspire to activities that are fun for them. Even the war would be fun for them if there was a way for them to prosecute it with any chance of success. They are in the right game, it's just a crappy mechanic being abused by twatwhistles that enjoy ruining other people's enjoyment of the game. It is dishonest to claim the war is one sided against you when all of the options that could be used against you are things you care absolutely nothing about, are completely ineffective in achieving any goals they want, are activities that they consider to be a chore at best or actually unfun (in a game they are playing to have fun in) at worst. Understanding that sort of thing requires an actual adult perspective, healthy levels of empathy, and not being a sadicstic pile of dreck.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:14:31 - [106] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You are completely narcissistic, you know that? And now we're into the "Projection" phase. I need to write a book. "Arguing with Carebears, 101." Quote: Even the war would be fun for them if there was a way for them to prosecute it with any chance of success. There is, and it really isn't all that hard. You just have to play the game with more than half your ass. But I suppose that's asking too much from the kind of people who think that mining afk in an ice belt while watching Netflix is engaging gameplay. Quote: They are in the right game They literally are not. In fact, there isn't a worse MMORPG in existence for people like that. Literally anything else would be a better choice, even "games" like Farmville. Quote: Understanding that sort of thing requires an actual adult perspective, healthy levels of empathy, and not being a sadicstic pile of dreck. Such flattery. Tell me how you really feel. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Felsusguy Aliastra Gallente Federation 363	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:16:11 - [107] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That is the only reason they exist. Because Concord shouldn't, but they have to charge a fee to act as an isk sink. Do you even understand what you are saying? Firstly, CONCORD is absolutely necessary. EVE could not exist without it. Not in its current state. Secondly, the original war declaration system should be enough proof that you do not speak for CCP. The wars were dirt cheap, but you could only have three of them and, like now, you can only declare war against corporations. This is not suggestive of the idea that CCP only uses wars as an ISK sink and actually wants to get rid of CONCORD. The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:19:28 - [108] - Quote Felsusguy wrote: Firstly, CONCORD is absolutely necessary. EVE could not exist without it. Not in its current state. The only word is lol. What you think EVE is would not exist without Concord, certainly. But EVE is not a bunch of NPCs babysitting you while you chew on rocks all day. I would not even venture to call such an abomination a game. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 998	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:19:32 - [109] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: There is, and it really isn't all that hard. You just have to play the game with more than half your ass. But I suppose that's asking too much from the kind of people who think that mining afk in an ice belt while watching Netflix is engaging gameplay. Still waiting on that list of options. You haven't actually listed a single one, just attacked carebears with your usual vapid vitriol.
Felsusguy Aliastra Gallente Federation 364	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:33:16 - [110] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Felsusguy wrote: Firstly, CONCORD is absolutely necessary. EVE could not exist without it. Not in its current state. The only word is lol. What you think EVE is would not exist without Concord, certainly. But EVE is not a bunch of NPCs babysitting you while you chew on rocks all day. I would not even venture to call such an abomination a game. Without a safe harbor from which players can catch their footing, EVE would be nothing more than a chaotic mess. Or worse, a place where no one can get anything done without the approval of a major alliance. Either way, EVE would have long ceased to be profitable without CONCORD. You can only create so high a barrier to entry before a game becomes unfeasible. That isn't to say that there can't be a game like that, but combined with EVE's mechanics I don't think it could work. The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1001	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:37:20 - [111] - Quote What he wants would look like battlefield in space. No industry, just maps and people racking up killboard stats. He is unsuited to the sort of gameplay a MMORPG creates.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14828	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:38:23 - [112] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: What he wants would look like battlefield in space. And the strawman, as per your usual. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Felsusguy Aliastra Gallente Federation 364	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:42:48 - [113] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Mike Voidstar wrote: What he wants would look like battlefield in space. And the strawman, as per your usual. Would you look at that, it's a kettle calling the pot black. The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1001	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:45:07 - [114] - Quote You aren't even smart enough to understand what my usual would be. You simply don't have the mental or emotional capacity to comprehend what a game played with goals other than hurting others even consists of. You are like a guy in a movie theater ruining the film for everyone else with your irritable bowel syndrome spewing raw dreck all over the rest of the audience. As far as anyone can glean from your chaotic ramblings any playstyle that does not involve shooting directly at your ship while screaming obscenities is there to amuse you personally by being prevented from actually playing any other part of the game. It's like they put in everything but your ship just to lure targets infront of you. Because that's how narcissists think--- everything is all about them.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14829	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:50:43 - [115] - Quote Mike Voidstar wrote: You aren't even smart enough to understand what my usual would be. Your post history in this thread alone makes it quite clear. As does your having wandered so far off the topic as to do nothing but attack me, and with nothing more than your own projection at that. Carebears truly are intolerant people, if they think the sandbox exists only for them. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Felsusguy Aliastra Gallente Federation 364	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:54:09 - [116] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Carebears truly are intolerant people, if they think the sandbox exists only for them. Hmmm... You know, I think there is a word for this... Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That "fantasy" is called EVE Online. Once again you prove that you are playing the wrong game, just like every last carebear. Oh, right! *Hypocrisy.* The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Kaarous Aldurald Black Hydra Consortium. 14830	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:57:12 - [117] - Quote Felsusguy wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Carebears truly are intolerant people, if they think the sandbox exists only for them. Hmmm... You know, I think there is a word for this... Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That "fantasy" is called EVE Online. Once again you prove that you are playing the wrong game, just like every last carebear. Oh, right! *Hypocrisy.* That's not hypocrisy, it's perfectly consistent. Unlike you, I'm not railing against the stated design intent of the game. I'm going with it. You are literally defying the words of the very developers and claiming you're right purely based on nothing but your feelings. You demand that the literal rules of the game should change to suit you because you aren't willing to play the game for what it is. You do not belong here. That's not me being intolerant, that's me stating a simple fact that you are deliberately blinding yourself to. All three of you very clearly hate this game and would be better off playing something that doesn't have non consensual PvP. Whatever you try to use to excuse that away, it remains the truth. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs. Best Meltdown Ever.
Felsusguy Aliastra Gallente Federation 366	Posted - 2015.11.03 09:58:35 - [118] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Felsusguy wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Carebears truly are intolerant people, if they think the sandbox exists only for them. Hmmm... You know, I think there is a word for this... Kaarous Aldurald wrote: That "fantasy" is called EVE Online. Once again you prove that you are playing the wrong game, just like every last carebear. Oh, right! *Hypocrisy.* That's not hypocrisy, it's perfectly consistent. Unlike you, I'm not railing against the stated design intent of the game. I'm going with it. You are literally defying the words of the very developers and claiming you're right purely based on nothing but your feelings. You demand that the literal rules of the game should change to suit you because you aren't willing to play the game for what it is. You do not belong here. That's not me being intolerant, that's me stating a simple fact that you are deliberately blinding yourself to. All three of you very clearly hate this game and would be better off playing something that doesn't have non consensual PvP. Whatever you try to use to excuse that away, it remains the truth. kek The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 2830	Posted - 2015.11.03 10:16:16 - [119] - Quote Lol no I havent sold my char kaarous. This is my usual 'its ok to quit if you dont like it. Others will take your place' just not directed at the usual crowd. And thats what would happen. Some deccers will stop, others will adapt and some groups will come back to wardeccing and some groups will start wardeccing. Thats of course assuming the idea gets traction. What I hope to achieve with the idea has been included in the op, but just again quickly for you, the purpose is to give an incentive and an opportunity to defenders for some direct and concrete counter play to wardecs. Im. aware it does not cater to small or solo war deccers and I dont think it needs to: - Its a multi player game and if its ok to say that to bears and solo PvPers when they dislike features then its ok to say it to deccers. - These small/solo deccing groups are the most guilty of deccing corps and then docking up whenever the defenders bring a fight.This idea deliberately punishes that style of dec. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Mike Voidstar Voidstar Free Flight Foundation 1004	Posted - 2015.11.03 10:21:32 - [120] - Quote So now it's that I think the sandbox is just for me? gankbear: Pway wif me! carebear: I don't think that's a fun way to play gankbear: PWAY WIF ME! bonk giggle carebear: How about we make some rules that are fun for both? gankbear: No! NO FAIR! Pway Wif Me! bonk bonk giggle carebear: I'm not doing this. /logoff gankbear: Waaaah! no one wants to pway wif me! That's your argument. Only you are doing it right, and everyone else should just do it your way.

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