EVE Search - L4 Typhoon - RHML or Cruise?

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Ships and Modules

L4 Typhoon - RHML or Cruise?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Boozbaz Brutor Clan 20	Posted - 2015.11.07 04:26:19 - [1] - Quote I'm going to do some work in EFT and test out the DPS I get with RHML and Cruise missiles against ships with similar sig radii and velocities as you can typically expect in L4 missions. I'm going to test the DPS with, and without target painters and webs, to see which missile platform performs the best. I plan to ignore torpedos, because torpedos seem to be best used on larger ships, and L4 missions have a lot of ships that are smaller than battleships. After doing all this with the Typhoon, I plan to do it again, with the Typhoon Fleet Issue. However, before I get to work, I wanted to post here on the forums and ask you guys/gals -> RHML or Cruise for Typhoon on L4 missions? (or Typhoon Fleet Issue)
Boozbaz Brutor Clan 20	Posted - 2015.11.07 05:02:14 - [2] - Quote Welp, here's the graphs. The Green Line is the RHML (and a pretty good Tom Hanks Movie - badumtsh) The Blue Line is the Cruise Missile Launcher The Red Line is the Torpedo Launcher. At 10km, the DPS drops a lot, because that's the range of the web. At 45km, the DPS drops again, because that's the range of the Target Painter. This is the DPS against a Cruiser with a sig radius of 130, and a velocity of 346. These numbers were meant to be similar to an Imperial Navy Maller: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=15322 http://i.imgur.com/XFsqWJE.png This is the DPS against a Battleship with a sig radius of 417, and a velocity of 279. These numbers were meant to be similar to an Imperial Navy Dominator http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=24982 http://i.imgur.com/2S9NjzQ.png I picked those sig radii and velocities because I like to run missions against Amarr NPC Navy.
Sequester Risalo Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd. 174	Posted - 2015.11.07 07:51:16 - [3] - Quote This is very helpful, thank you.
Boozbaz Brutor Clan 20	Posted - 2015.11.07 09:08:49 - [4] - Quote Sequester Risalo wrote: This is very helpful, thank you. Keep in mind that I didn't do this with T2 missiles. At some point in the future I might do this with T2 missiles and see how that changes things.
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 532	Posted - 2015.11.07 09:46:02 - [5] - Quote Are the RHML Reload times taken into account? It hugely nerfs your dps over time. You DPS will show as being really high but that's only true for a single clip. It all depends on what you are planning on using the ship for, ratting/missions, or PvP A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 16	Posted - 2015.11.07 09:51:23 - [6] - Quote i am using RHML for L4 (yes, i am strange), and must say that there is only one ship that good for rapid heavy's on L4 - Fleet Typhoon. Bargest have range and it not so good for PVE. Raven and Scorpion Navy have rof - which is excellent for PVP, but not for PVE Typhoon works fine with cruise missiles
Valacus Caldari Provisions Caldari State 7	Posted - 2015.11.07 18:57:33 - [7] - Quote RHMLs take 5 years to reload. If you can't clear a room in 1 magazine, you'll be running super slow.
Caleidascope Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 599	Posted - 2015.11.07 20:40:34 - [8] - Quote also try drone boat setup Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first!
A Ingus Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships 68	Posted - 2015.11.07 21:24:24 - [9] - Quote Train tech II sentries. Use cruise missiles. I often use a Fleet Phoon with one DLA II in a utility high and a painter in a mid. The sentries are used to take out the frig and dessys at 84km or closer. The cruise launcher IIs are for everything else. I use regular or precision cruises for the cruisers. The BCs and BSs get fury cruises. If any frigs get under the sentries I just mop them up with light tech II drones. I see so many missile users trying to figure out how to use only missiles in missions. Most missile boats have a drone bay. Drones are excellent for taking out small stuff. Gun boats have to use them too if they small ships get under the gun tracking. So don't go rigor crazy or whatever trying to make your large missiles kill everything. Train some drone skills and use them. The phoonkind are blessed with a larger drone bay than most nondrone boats. So sentries are very nice to use.
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 17	Posted - 2015.11.07 22:14:24 - [10] - Quote Valacus wrote: RHMLs take 5 years to reload. If you can't clear a room in 1 magazine, you'll be running super slow. false statement. if you have ship that can clean room in 72 sec, please post a fit.

Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2002	Posted - 2015.11.08 07:43:04 - [11] - Quote I'd go with cruise. long range, short reload, and npcs are pretty fat and slow compared to player ships. @ChainsawPlankto
Boozbaz Brutor Clan 20	Posted - 2015.11.08 08:36:26 - [12] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: Are the RHML Reload times taken into account? It hugely nerfs your dps over time. You DPS will show as being really high but that's only true for a single clip. Thank you for pointing this out to me. I did not include reload time on my original graphs. Here's the new graphs, with reload time included. Once again: The Green Line is the RHML (and a pretty good Tom Hanks Movie - badumtsh) The Blue Line is the Cruise Missile Launcher The Red Line is the Torpedo Launcher. This is the DPS against a Cruiser with a sig radius of 130, and a velocity of 346. These numbers were meant to be similar to an Imperial Navy Maller: http://imgur.com/Bu2pDus This is the DPS against a Battleship with a sig radius of 417, and a velocity of 279. These numbers were meant to be similar to an Imperial Navy Dominator: http://imgur.com/zCOCOPU Conclusions: 1. Against cruisers, RHML does better DPS, unless the cruiser is webbed, or beyond the range of RHML. 2. Against battleships, RHML's are the worst choice. Torpedoes do the best damage within web range, and cruise missiles do better damage from further ranges.
Boozbaz Brutor Clan 20	Posted - 2015.11.08 08:58:15 - [13] - Quote And here we go with the -_-_Typhoon Fleet Issue_-_- Now we're using the Typhoon Fleet Issue and we're also incorporating the reload time into the equation. I'm sorry for the confusing change of color, but here's the colors... The BLUE LINE is the RHML The GREEN LINE is the Cruise Launcher The RED LINE is the Torpedo Launcher Against the Cruiser... http://i.imgur.com/uCYTS2g.png Against the Battleship... http://i.imgur.com/iOgZcEY.png Conclusions: 1. Uriam Khanid stated "there is only one ship that good for rapid heavy's on L4 - Fleet Typhoon" - and while I don't 100% agree with this statement, it is clear the the TFI is much better suited for RHML's than the regular Typhoon. 2. The TFI does good damage with RHML against Battleships that are beyond web range. I did further testing with T2 ammunition. I wont post the graphs because I don't want to overload this thread with so many graphs that things become confusing. Instead I'll just say this: With T2 missiles, Torpedos do HUGE damage, as long as the targets are within web range. Beyond web range, RHML does better dps. Cruise missiles have the best range. That's a summary of my findings so far anyways.
Thron Legacy White Zulu Scorpion Federation 25	Posted - 2015.11.08 20:17:42 - [14] - Quote what if i tell you that target painters work beyond 45km, altho at less efficiency = your graph is wrong at the end, it should go down like a quadratical function and not just drop down in an instant and to actually give useful feedback Cruise VICTOR
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 535	Posted - 2015.11.08 21:16:04 - [15] - Quote At 23km the cruise dps drops to 0? what? A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
Sheeth Athonille Rabid Dogz Mining Void.. 50	Posted - 2015.11.08 21:37:40 - [16] - Quote Thron Legacy wrote: what if i tell you that target painters work beyond 45km, altho at less efficiency = your graph is wrong at the end, it should go down like a quadratical function and not just drop down in an instant and to actually give useful feedback Cruise VICTOR I don't use missiles very often, so I might be wrong, but I believe this has to do with the flight time on missiles. I believe they simply don't work after a certain range, so their dps is effectively 0. Turrets are different since they do have fall-off, but not missiles. Anize Oramara wrote: At 23km the cruise dps drops to 0? what? The red line is the torpedo's, not cruise :P
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2006	Posted - 2015.11.08 22:49:10 - [17] - Quote what is your fit and are you using implants? Webs can be very strong for missile application, but the ranges involved are so small, that it just isn't really helpful in most missions. using another painter, or a missile guidance computer might provide better overall damage. for the TFI: looks to me that using 2x rigor II 1x flare II, a RF painter and a precision scripted MGC you get full application with faction cruise missiles on cruisers. same setup but with 3x painters 2x mgc and 5% implants gets full application with fury. That however gets into the realm of wasting slots that need to be doing other thigns. Looks like 2x painter 1x mgc is what I'd try to fly with, leaving a slot for a cap injector and a prop mod. good application is nice on cruisers as you can usually fire 1 volley and let your sentry drones finish off the target, or two volley the target. @ChainsawPlankto
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 535	Posted - 2015.11.09 00:06:18 - [18] - Quote For the TFI I'd go armor tank, fury cruise and sentries. A little tight on CPU with a MWD but it can put out a decent amount of dps and apply that dps extremely well. If you go shield tank you lose a lot of that application for minor dps gain. That said a Rattlesnake and Machariel will both out dps it, where the Rattlesnake will out tank it and the Mach will fly circles around it too. The rattlesnake is a superior RHML platform on top of all that because of more damage coming from drones and bigger damage bonus. That said the TFI is a great ship with it's only real problem (in terms of PvE) being that there are better ships that do the same thing for about the same price A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 18	Posted - 2015.11.09 00:42:45 - [19] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: for the TFI: looks to me that using 2x rigor II 1x flare II, a RF painter and a precision scripted MGC you get full application with faction cruise missiles on cruisers. with RHML you don't need all of this. and you apply damage much better to all ship, even frig's. and other disadvantage of RHML - you need to MONITOR how you apply damage. it means that you need to stop shooting on the target, BEFORE you hit the target. and it is a big problem, not the 35 sec reload
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 18	Posted - 2015.11.09 00:49:34 - [20] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: For the TFI I'd go armor tank, fury cruise and sentries. A little tight on CPU with a MWD but it can put out a decent amount of dps and apply that dps extremely well. If you go shield tank you lose a lot of that application for minor dps gain. That said a Rattlesnake and Machariel will both out dps it, where the Rattlesnake will out tank it and the Mach will fly circles around it too. The rattlesnake is a superior RHML platform on top of all that because of more damage coming from drones and bigger damage bonus. That said the TFI is a great ship with it's only real problem (in terms of PvE) being that there are better ships that do the same thing for about the same price you conclusions are wrong, TFI with RHML actually outperform the Rattlesnake with RHML and i am using shield TFI. because it is never come to armor

Gregor Parud Ordo Ardish 1616	Posted - 2015.11.09 02:50:04 - [21] - Quote Rapids are really annoying to use for PVE for the above stated reason: because of the high rate of fire you're going to waste a lot of dps due to missile flight time. That or you'll have to monitor your volleys so closely it'll give you an aneurism which will be even more of an issue if you rely on painters and you shoot outside painter optimal. On the whole the more reliable to use cruises will be on par with the burst dps RHML, minus the annoyance. Use cruise and fit 2 rigors 1 flare, then it's up to you to fit for shield and thus use more damage mods for both missiles and drones and an MGE or 2, or go armour and fit guidance modules. The armour fit will work better vs cruisers but overall dps will be better with shield fit.
Boozbaz Brutor Clan 21	Posted - 2015.11.09 05:35:47 - [22] - Quote Thron Legacy wrote: what if i tell you that target painters work beyond 45km, altho at less efficiency = your graph is wrong at the end, it should go down like a quadratical function and not just drop down in an instant and to actually give useful feedback Cruise VICTOR Wanted to point out that your tone of voice in this post makes you sound like a douche. Besides that, I'm using EFT to generate these charts. So if the line suddenly drops off at the 45km mark, it's got something to do with EFT. I noticed that drop at the 45km as well, and thought it should follow a parabolic curve, since target painters have falloff. But still, it's a minor issue from my perspective, so I didn't think much more about it after I noticed it for the first time.
The Bigpuns Touring New Eden Haven. 12	Posted - 2015.11.09 16:08:32 - [23] - Quote Boozbaz wrote: edit did a little googling and found this: Quote: Beyond its optimal, the tp effect becomes chance based. So at 39+78 km the chance of a "hit" is 50%. If it hits, it provides the full effect to the target sig radius. EFT does not handle this die roll. I did not know that. Seems a little counter-intuitive to me, but that's eve. Not that it matters as I only fit tp's to my golem, mgc's to everything else.
Arthur Aihaken CODE.d 4735	Posted - 2015.11.14 09:12:05 - [24] - Quote Uriam Khanid wrote: Bargest have range and it not so good for PVE. It's not range - it's velocity. Which means you don't have to monitor volleys anywhere near as much (or at all) against longer range targets. The Bigpuns wrote: ]Beyond its optimal, the tp effect becomes chance based. So at 39+78 km the chance of a "hit" is 50%. If it hits, it provides the full effect to the target sig radius. EFT does not handle this die roll. Interesting. I was not aware of that, either (I always assumed falloff worked like it did with weapons). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2025	Posted - 2015.11.15 03:51:06 - [25] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: Uriam Khanid wrote: Bargest have range and it not so good for PVE. It's not range - it's velocity. Which means you don't have to monitor volleys anywhere near as much (or at all) against longer range targets. The Bigpuns wrote: ]Beyond its optimal, the tp effect becomes chance based. So at 39+78 km the chance of a "hit" is 50%. If it hits, it provides the full effect to the target sig radius. EFT does not handle this die roll. Interesting. I was not aware of that, either (I always assumed falloff worked like it did with weapons). yeap the velocity bonus on missiles is awesome, not having one is one of the main reasons I hate flying a rattlesnake. Also come december the bargest is getting a slight dps boost too with weapons falloff reduces chance to hit and hit quality. Although with tiericide on nos/neuts quality is effected by being in falloff, so I'm not sure what is going to happen with ewar as tiericide goes forward. In the long run having a % chance to hit is similar to quality, but on each individual roll the effect is either too weak or strong. @ChainsawPlankto
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 19	Posted - 2015.11.15 15:17:11 - [26] - Quote Arthur Aihaken wrote: It's not range - it's velocity. Which means you don't have to monitor volleys anywhere near as much (or at all) against longer range targets. triple speed means range, and looks you are not so familiar with RHML. especially with caldari RHML, which have awesome rof. and when each volley is a nps ship, you will monitor.
Valacus Streets of Fire 14	Posted - 2015.11.17 22:41:26 - [27] - Quote RHML reload, 10 billion years. Cruise reload, not 10 billion years. Not much of a contest IMO. Rapid launchers aren't very good for PvE.
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 569	Posted - 2015.11.18 07:42:53 - [28] - Quote Uriam Khanid wrote: Arthur Aihaken wrote: It's not range - it's velocity. Which means you don't have to monitor volleys anywhere near as much (or at all) against longer range targets. triple speed means range, and looks you are not so familiar with RHML. especially with caldari RHML, which have awesome rof. and when each volley is a nps ship, you will monitor. He means that the range isn't the important part of the bonus that barghest gets, although that is what the bonus also gives. The important part of the bonus is that the increased velocity (that equals increased range yes) means that the volley of missiles hit before the next volley leaves the tubes. This means less wasted volleys or less having to monitor(pay attention to or counting) volleys so long as you're close enough. This is also why ships with bonussed damage are better than ships with bonussed rof when it comes to Rapid missile launchers for PvE. A good example is the Orthrus and the Caracal. It basically reduces the effect the long reload has on the dps. A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 569	Posted - 2015.11.18 07:59:19 - [29] - Quote Valacus wrote: RHML reload, 10 billion years. Cruise reload, not 10 billion years. Not much of a contest IMO. Rapid launchers aren't very good for PvE. Actually, did a fun little test quickly in EFT. EFT can show damage with reloads taken into account. Cruise Barghest using Faction cruise missiles and fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II (Pretty standard layout) has a dps WITH reloads of 808dps (843dps with no reloads) RHML Barghest using Fury missiles (Identical explosion velocity, much better explosion radius than faction cruise) also fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II has a dps WITH reloads of 780 (1192 dps with reloads) So for a cost of 28dps I get better application (explosion radius 180 vs 247) and far fewer wasted damage from overkill because smaller damage per volley. Come December that 28dps cost should be even less though no idea by how much. The Barghest really is the champion of RHM and Torps (more so than the Golem imho) A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
Loradan Illstari Heretic Army I N F A M O U S 2	Posted - 2015.11.18 22:58:32 - [30] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: Valacus wrote: RHML reload, 10 billion years. Cruise reload, not 10 billion years. Not much of a contest IMO. Rapid launchers aren't very good for PvE. Actually, did a fun little test quickly in EFT. EFT can show damage with reloads taken into account. Cruise Barghest using Faction cruise missiles and fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II (Pretty standard layout) has a dps WITH reloads of 808dps (843dps with no reloads) RHML Barghest using Fury missiles (Identical explosion velocity, much better explosion radius than faction cruise) also fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II has a dps WITH reloads of 780 (1192 dps with reloads) So for a cost of 28dps I get better application (explosion radius 180 vs 247) and far fewer wasted damage from overkill because smaller damage per volley. Come December that 28dps cost should be even less though no idea by how much. The Barghest really is the champion of RHM and Torps (more so than the Golem imho) Fewer wasted volleys, but you're using up way more ammunition since RHML makes up the DPS in rate of fire vs. volley damage for cruise. I still say cruise missiles are a huge win over RHML.

Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2040	Posted - 2015.11.18 23:23:09 - [31] - Quote meh, ammo is cheap @ChainsawPlankto
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 576	Posted - 2015.11.19 08:20:53 - [32] - Quote Loradan Illstari wrote: Anize Oramara wrote: Valacus wrote: RHML reload, 10 billion years. Cruise reload, not 10 billion years. Not much of a contest IMO. Rapid launchers aren't very good for PvE. Actually, did a fun little test quickly in EFT. EFT can show damage with reloads taken into account. Cruise Barghest using Faction cruise missiles and fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II (Pretty standard layout) has a dps WITH reloads of 808dps (843dps with no reloads) RHML Barghest using Fury missiles (Identical explosion velocity, much better explosion radius than faction cruise) also fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II has a dps WITH reloads of 780 (1192 dps with reloads) So for a cost of 28dps I get better application (explosion radius 180 vs 247) and far fewer wasted damage from overkill because smaller damage per volley. Come December that 28dps cost should be even less though no idea by how much. The Barghest really is the champion of RHM and Torps (more so than the Golem imho) Fewer wasted volleys, but you're using up way more ammunition since RHML makes up the DPS in rate of fire vs. volley damage for cruise. I still say cruise missiles are a huge win over RHML. Check the prices for T2 ammo vs faction ammo. T2 ammo pretty cheap. A quick look at eve central T2 scourge fury is less than 400isk each, faction scourge cruise is almsot 4 times that however cruise volley is only slightly more than double that of the heavy missiles. That means cruise missile costs are actually MORE (almsot double) than that of heavy missiles. You actually save money using HRML over using cruise. A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 576	Posted - 2015.11.19 09:00:59 - [33] - Quote So interesting thing, i did the same little test I did on the barghest on the Typhoon Navy (Damage bonus rather than rof bonus like T1 phoon) and the dps with reloads on RHML is only 18 dps less than Cruise. Larger amount of damage coming from drones though. Only downsides of course is missiles are a lot slower, lower range, counting volleys all that jazz and the ship itself is slower than the barghest. The change coming December might be enough to bring the Barghest up to Typhoon Navy level to be honest. People might start ratting with it 0.o A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 19	Posted - 2015.11.19 18:52:01 - [34] - Quote Valacus wrote: RHML reload, 10 billion years. Cruise reload, not 10 billion years. Not much of a contest IMO. Rapid launchers aren't very good for PvE. totally wrong, they are excellent and awesome for PVE and PVP. main disadvantage of RHML is that you need to count your volley's. 35 second reload is nothing due to ability to wreck everything around you
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 19	Posted - 2015.11.19 19:18:33 - [35] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: Actually, did a fun little test quickly in EFT. EFT can show damage with reloads taken into account. Cruise Barghest using Faction cruise missiles and fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II (Pretty standard layout) has a dps WITH reloads of 808dps (843dps with no reloads) RHML Barghest using Fury missiles (Identical explosion velocity, much better explosion radius than faction cruise) also fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II has a dps WITH reloads of 780 (1192 dps with reloads) So for a cost of 28dps I get better application (explosion radius 180 vs 247) and far fewer wasted damage from overkill because smaller damage per volley. Come December that 28dps cost should be even less though no idea by how much. The Barghest really is the champion of RHM and Torps (more so than the Golem imho) EFT thing is one thing. Reality - very different. This summs from my experiense (both PVe and PVP): RHML with fury works bad. For both PVE and PVP. Really bad, faction ammo is wonder. Even T1 ammo better than fury. Ships with bonus to damage (TFI, Barghest) must to fit T2 launchers Ships with rof (Scorp Navy, Raven) must to fit Caldari RHML to exploit rof bonus, otherwise its useless. Even in PVP (if you deal with crus/frig) you need to count volley's. TFI much better RHML platform than Barghest because of 200m3 dronebay which gives you ability to carry few flights of small/meduim drones. Cruise missiles needs rigs, target painters, and some midslots. with RHML you need only target Painter in PVP, in PVE you don't need target painter. Disadvantage of RHML in PVE is simple to dicribe: you need to kill 8 npc destroyers/frif's. each frig is 1 volley from your ship. rof is 2s for Scorp navy and 3s for TFI/Barghest so, in next 15-25s you need to push F1/click mouse 16 times!!! 35s reload is nothing... i try to answer to all your posts.
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2052	Posted - 2015.11.19 22:13:20 - [36] - Quote in my experience fury heavy missiles apply very well in most pve settings. Although with cruise the main thing is good application on BS, swapping to faction/precision to take down cruisers isn't the worst thing, not desirable, but if you can plan for it it shouldn't impact you too much. I'm not sure that fitting CN RHML is the best way to take advantage of a RoF bonus. the dps difference seems tiny (3dps/launcher after reload on a raven), and you lose access to fury missiles. as for the mass of 1 volley frigs first off: use your drones when you can. Second: barg has a huge advantage with its missile velocity bonus as those missiles go 20km/s, and will probably get to the target before the next volley fires. If not imo you picked the wrong target. Can't speak too much to the other ships, at the point you shoot frigs they are probably close enough, although the rof is pretty insane so you very well might need that extra press. And so what a few extra button presses, lots of games where you need to press a button every second or so, and are probably hitting other buttons too. third: auto-targeting missiles are rather fun in that scenario, CNR with its bonus can volley many frigs with auto-targeting cruise. @ChainsawPlankto
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic 1662	Posted - 2015.11.20 02:16:12 - [37] - Quote I am thinking of dusting off my Rattler that has not been used for about a year or more and converting it from an Activel/Cruise boat to a Passive RHML setup. My thoughts were to split the RHML into two banks to reduce the wasted DPS. It will make for a busy workload but should help. has anyone tried this ?
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 582	Posted - 2015.11.20 10:30:04 - [38] - Quote Uriam Khanid wrote: EFT thing is one thing. Reality - very different. Yes and no. Yes relying on ONLY dps as shown in eft is usually where people go wrong and is where the disdain for 'EFT warriors' comes from. For example they look at Torp and Cruise dps and say that Torps are obviously WAY better because the dps is a lot higher. In that case they're not looking at the application of the damage nor the range or speed of the toprs, etc. A very common mistake. However I'm looking at all the parts, not just the dps but also the reload, rof, explosion radius, explosion velocity, velocity of the missiles and even cost of the ammunition. All of these things together make up the reality. Some directly influences how fast you kill things and others are quality of life kind of things. If you take all of the components that make up reality into account then EFT = Practice(usually). When comparing the two hulls (Barghest and Typhoon) in terms of RHML effectiveness both have their advantages. Depends on what you want to use them for. The primary thing going for the Barghest is the missile velocity bonus that is a HUGE quality of life type of thing. The new Missile guidance enhancers also really shine on the Barghest IMHO. Want to train T2 Heavy missiles just so I can fly this: [Barghest, RHML] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Ballistic Control System II Missile Guidance Enhancer II Missile Guidance Enhancer II Republic Fleet Target Painter Shadow Serpentis 500MN Microwarpdrive Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Small Tractor Beam II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 A Brawler Fleet Typhoon version would look something like this (You can also do a sentry sniper with range scripts): [Typhoon Fleet Issue, RHML Brawler] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier Imperial Navy Drone Damage Amplifier Reactive Armor Hardener Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Centus C-Type Large Armor Repairer Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Federation Navy 500MN Microwarpdrive Republic Fleet Target Painter Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script Missile Guidance Computer II, Missile Precision Script Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Drone Link Augmentor II Small Tractor Beam II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Ogre II x5 A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier
Uriam Khanid New Machinarium Corporation 20	Posted - 2015.11.20 13:20:21 - [39] - Quote Target painter useless. you will finished most targets faster than TP ends circle. on many target you need to shoot 1-2-3 volley, than proseed to next npc and MJD will help you a lot as offensive module on TFI. about Barghest - i am agree that triple speed is good, but if you look on bonus of the speed bonus - its range. and shooting on 100km with such rof means waste of ammo and ability to quickly wrecked npc ships.
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 583	Posted - 2015.11.20 15:40:44 - [40] - Quote Uriam Khanid wrote: Target painter useless. you will finished most targets faster than TP ends circle. on many target you need to shoot 1-2-3 volley, than proseed to next npc and MJD will help you a lot as offensive module on TFI. about Barghest - i am agree that triple speed is good, but if you look on bonus of the speed bonus - its range. and shooting on 100km with such rof means waste of ammo and ability to quickly wrecked npc ships. Target painter Duration: 5 seconds RHML Duration 2.6 seconds Also with a missile speed of 22km/s (with two guidance enhancers) so long as the target is within about 55km you wont waste volleys. If it is further you will waste maximum of 1 volley. The volleys are half the wasted damage of a wasted cruise volley and only costs 1/4 the isk. A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier

Valacus Streets of Fire 29	Posted - 2015.11.20 16:33:47 - [41] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: Loradan Illstari wrote: Anize Oramara wrote: Valacus wrote: RHML reload, 10 billion years. Cruise reload, not 10 billion years. Not much of a contest IMO. Rapid launchers aren't very good for PvE. Actually, did a fun little test quickly in EFT. EFT can show damage with reloads taken into account. Cruise Barghest using Faction cruise missiles and fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II (Pretty standard layout) has a dps WITH reloads of 808dps (843dps with no reloads) RHML Barghest using Fury missiles (Identical explosion velocity, much better explosion radius than faction cruise) also fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II has a dps WITH reloads of 780 (1192 dps with reloads) So for a cost of 28dps I get better application (explosion radius 180 vs 247) and far fewer wasted damage from overkill because smaller damage per volley. Come December that 28dps cost should be even less though no idea by how much. The Barghest really is the champion of RHM and Torps (more so than the Golem imho) Fewer wasted volleys, but you're using up way more ammunition since RHML makes up the DPS in rate of fire vs. volley damage for cruise. I still say cruise missiles are a huge win over RHML. Check the prices for T2 ammo vs faction ammo. T2 ammo pretty cheap. A quick look at eve central T2 scourge fury is less than 400isk each, faction scourge cruise is almsot 4 times that however cruise volley is only slightly more than double that of the heavy missiles. That means cruise missile costs are actually MORE (almsot double) than that of heavy missiles. You actually save money using HRML over using cruise. Scourge fury cruise missiles costs 440 isk in Jita. Scourge fury heavies cost 398. So no, not almost double. Not by a long shot. Again, cruise wins.
Anize Oramara The Arch Dashing Dashers 583	Posted - 2015.11.20 17:45:12 - [42] - Quote Valacus wrote: Scourge fury cruise missiles costs 440 isk in Jita. Scourge fury heavies cost 398. So no, not almost double. Not by a long shot. Again, cruise wins. Do try and keep up. Faction cruise and fury heavies have the same explosion velocities with fury heavies having better explosion radius. This is why I compared those two specifically. Otherwise you have a problem with application so your Fury cruise does far less damage than advertised or you need additional application on a hull that already has no bonuses to application. Here I'll even quote you the bit I originally wrote: Quote: Actually, did a fun little test quickly in EFT. EFT can show damage with reloads taken into account. Cruise Barghest using Faction cruise missiles and fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II (Pretty standard layout) has a dps WITH reloads of 808dps (843dps with no reloads) RHML Barghest using Fury missiles (Identical explosion velocity, much better explosion radius than faction cruise) also fitted with 3 faction BCU and 1 BCU II has a dps WITH reloads of 780 (1192 dps with reloads) So for a cost of 28dps I get better application (explosion radius 180 vs 247) and far fewer wasted damage from overkill because smaller damage per volley. Come December that 28dps cost should be even less though no idea by how much. The Barghest really is the champion of RHM and Torps (more so than the Golem imho) This isn't rocket science. Ok, so it kinda is A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.