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David Koresch
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.05 18:35:00 -
[1]
Ok CCP, you've had your fun.
You gave us pirates an excellent probing system, one which worked superbly but was not at all overpowered.
Then came the mission-runners getting raped in lowsec because they cant be arsed to pay attention to who enters local, or even who enters their complex  . Naturally, they ran to the forum and whined so hard that they nearly broke them.
So CCP 'fixed' probes.
Strength was lowered on regular probes, and people within deadspace could no longer be probed out without using the Racial probes. This would be fine, appart from the fact that you can't even load them into a recon launcher 
W
T
F
Its fine that you dont want mission runners to die so much in Lowsec, but WHY must you nerf us so badly, then make us constantly re-fit our probing ships to catch someone.
Grr. Is this a mistake or are CCP being gits again?
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Carebearin' in a hi-sec near you! |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.01.05 18:45:00 -
[2]
Basicly the chance of finding someone is very low now (I think 1% per scan), so you should be in a gang with many scanning ships to increase the chance...
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
David Koresch
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.01.05 18:47:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Jim McGregor
Basicly the chance of finding someone is very low now (I think 1% per scan), so you should be in a gang with many scanning ships to increase the chance...
 So small pirate corps are worthless now. Woopdidoo 
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Carebearin' in a hi-sec near you! |
Sash Windu
Gallente
The Green Banana Corporation
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Posted - 2007.01.05 18:55:00 -
[4]
The racial probes are for finding exploration sites. And with a max scan range of 4AU they are not much use for finding mission deadspaces.
Now, if I remember correctly it was the high sec mission runners, who were the ones *****ing about being probed, not the lo sec ones. And they kept their *****ing to one big thread. So did not nearly break the forums as you say.
The fix applied by CCP was not as you say in your post, but as someone else has gave you that info I wont repeat it.
Thats three mistakes in your short post. 0/10 Must try harder.
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Kaimon ValDreth
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:02:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Kaimon ValDreth on 05/01/2007 19:02:36
The problem is that in deadspace there are a whole slew of mods that dont work because of "Interference" that deadspace has...why should a probe from outside deadspace penatrate that interference?
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:03:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/01/2007 19:06:22
Originally by: David Koresch
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Basicly the chance of finding someone is very low now (I think 1% per scan), so you should be in a gang with many scanning ships to increase the chance...
So small pirate corps are worthless now. Woopdidoo
Just adapt to it and you'll be fine. You have to see it from the mission runners perspective as well. They must have the possibility to do missions in low sec without getting attacked every time. The rewards hardly make it worth it if they get killed often.
Still, personally I wouldnt mind if it was easier to play the game a bit more solo, but meh... cant have everything I want.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Damien Smith
Turbulent
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:05:00 -
[7]
The old probe system was nicely balanced and bloody challenging. It was as perfect as a system could be (apart from the disc shaped scan area, but w/e)
Then the post-rev probe system came in. It was screwed up beyond all belief. It was totally overpowered and needed nerfing.
The post-post-rev probe system was slightly improved, yet still equally screwed. Now instead of dropping a probe and scanning once, you drop a probe and mash the scan button until you get a result. You play the law of averages until you get a lucky roll. No skill needed.
I still probe mission runners, only now instead of being a challenging game of cat and mouse, a race against the clock where every second counts and one misdropped probe can mean the difference between a windfall of faction loot, or some mission runner docking and laughing himself to another faction ship offer.
The new probe system is an alts job. You just browse the forums while going 'click, click, click, click, click until you get a good result, then warp in. It's boring.
I miss the old probe system...
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Damien Smith
The old probe system was nicely balanced and bloody challenging. It was as perfect as a system could be (apart from the disc shaped scan area, but w/e)
Then the post-rev probe system came in. It was screwed up beyond all belief. It was totally overpowered and needed nerfing.
The post-post-rev probe system was slightly improved, yet still equally screwed. Now instead of dropping a probe and scanning once, you drop a probe and mash the scan button until you get a result. You play the law of averages until you get a lucky roll. No skill needed.
I still probe mission runners, only now instead of being a challenging game of cat and mouse, a race against the clock where every second counts and one misdropped probe can mean the difference between a windfall of faction loot, or some mission runner docking and laughing himself to another faction ship offer.
The new probe system is an alts job. You just browse the forums while going 'click, click, click, click, click until you get a good result, then warp in. It's boring.
I miss the old probe system...
I want the new system to work like the old system, without the need to launch 3 probes. I dont want it chance based.. I would prefer shorter range probes that shows what is inside their reach every time.
That would bring back some fun I think, because afaik, not many people like the chance based stuff when it comes to scanning.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Donkee Punch
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:19:00 -
[9]
If you want to power up the probes again.. which is not a bad thing IMO.. then allow the Mission Instances to be locked to the person doing it. The gate allows in the owner of the mission and any in their gang..
Then griefers can't ply their miserable trade.. pirating is saved.. they can still jump em outside the mission if they are good enuff or near stations...
HUZZAH..everyone is happy..
end trans...
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I want the new system to work like the old system, without the need to launch 3 probes. I dont want it chance based.. I would prefer shorter range probes that shows what is inside their range every time. There might be lots of deviation for the longer range probes, but the closer you got, the more accurate it would become. If it goes too fast to get results, I think increasing the time it takes to scan would work better than having it chance based.
That would bring back some fun I think, because afaik, not many people like the chance based stuff when it comes to scanning.
The triangulation was exactly why it was so balanced. Every probe had to be in range, or you got nothing. It was fun to learn, and challenging to master. The new chance based system was just brought about because most casual carebears couldn't use the new system and ccp wanted exploration to be easy to do. The new system just doesn't work for recon probing. Making it chance based is just a poor cop out to the natural difficulty probing had. Now we just have artificial difficulty in the form of 'bad results'.
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Damien Smith
The triangulation was exactly why it was so balanced. Every probe had to be in range, or you got nothing. It was fun to learn, and challenging to master. The new chance based system was just brought about because most casual carebears couldn't use the new system and ccp wanted exploration to be easy to do. The new system just doesn't work for recon probing. Making it chance based is just a poor cop out to the natural difficulty probing had. Now we just have artificial difficulty in the form of 'bad results'.
I dont know... I mostly remember people sitting at their stupid safespots and being almost completely safe from being found. People didnt even bother trying to find each other once one of them successfully warped away...
But if you combine the old system with some of the stuff from the new system, then maybe some kind of better system can be the end result.
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Haffrage
Revelations Inc.
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Originally by: Damien Smith
The triangulation was exactly why it was so balanced. Every probe had to be in range, or you got nothing. It was fun to learn, and challenging to master. The new chance based system was just brought about because most casual carebears couldn't use the new system and ccp wanted exploration to be easy to do. The new system just doesn't work for recon probing. Making it chance based is just a poor cop out to the natural difficulty probing had. Now we just have artificial difficulty in the form of 'bad results'.
I dont know... I mostly remember people sitting at their stupid safespots and being almost completely safe from being found. People didnt even bother trying to find each other once one of them successfully warped away...
But if you combine the old system with some of the stuff from the new system, then maybe some kind of better system can be the end result.
No no no, I remember people going to safespots thinking they were completely safe until I probed them and killed them. Now that was fun stuff. Or sometimes I'd just probe them and save the safespot for later, like the time I tracked down a raven with 150mm rails fit and he had 5 more guys in system...so I waited for buddies to sign on and he left...and 3 days later left his corp for a new one in another region =(
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:15:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/01/2007 20:14:49
Originally by: Haffrage
No no no, I remember people going to safespots thinking they were completely safe until I probed them and killed them. Now that was fun stuff. Or sometimes I'd just probe them and save the safespot for later, like the time I tracked down a raven with 150mm rails fit and he had 5 more guys in system...so I waited for buddies to sign on and he left...and 3 days later left his corp for a new one in another region =(
Yeah, that does sound like fun. But the reason for people just sitting there feeling safe was because they didnt think anyone was crazy enough to go through all the trouble of finding them. I can see the fun in proving them wrong though... you must be a stubborn guy. :)
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Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Haffrage
Revelations Inc.
Shroud Of Darkness
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:22:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 05/01/2007 20:14:49
Originally by: Haffrage
No no no, I remember people going to safespots thinking they were completely safe until I probed them and killed them. Now that was fun stuff. Or sometimes I'd just probe them and save the safespot for later, like the time I tracked down a raven with 150mm rails fit and he had 5 more guys in system...so I waited for buddies to sign on and he left...and 3 days later left his corp for a new one in another region =(
Yeah, that does sound like fun. But the reason for people just sitting there feeling safe was because they didnt think anyone was crazy enough to go through all the trouble of finding them. I can see the fun in proving them wrong though... you must be a stubborn guy. :)
For the first week or so it was really tough to get the hang of, but it was surprisingly easy once you'd spent the time practicing. I'd read a tutorial that was more of a mechanics explanation 3 or 4 times, then I got to work probing down shuttles in my alliance's space. After about 50 of em I was fairly good at it. By the time I considered myself really good it never took more than 4 or 5 tries to get to the safe. Which would've been what, 8 minutes? Most of the time it just took 1 to 3.
And that's why I'm so ****ed about the new probe systems. The original *was* an actual profession. You had to invest time, you had to practice, and you actually had to learn. And once you were good at it you were good at it. It wasn't 100% accurate because YOU weren't 100% accurate, but if the target was in scan range they'd show up. And that's how you'd know you were getting better.
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.01.05 20:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Donkee Punch
Then griefers can't ply their miserable trade.. pirating is saved.. they can still jump em outside the mission if they are good enuff or near stations...
Near stations? How, they have insta dock undock now...
"Outside the mission"? Oh, you mean jumpgates, where most people are caught now, regardless of how probes work...
Clueless ppl ftl.
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.05 21:03:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Haffrage
And that's why I'm so ****ed about the new probe systems. The original *was* an actual profession. You had to invest time, you had to practice, and you actually had to learn. And once you were good at it you were good at it. It wasn't 100% accurate because YOU weren't 100% accurate, but if the target was in scan range they'd show up. And that's how you'd know you were getting better.
I agree completely. The old system wasn't based on skillpoints, it was based on skill. In the old system if you got no result, it was because you screwed up. No one else. You did. You didn't get an unlucky 'roll', you didn't have an act of god magically make a ship invisible to your probes that you could see clearly on your scanner. If all probes were in range - you got a result. if not - you didn't. The skill was in getting the probes in range and pinning them down before they moved on.
I've been grinding the new astrometrics skills since the patch (already had astrometrics and covert ops 5) and for what? To make it take 15 scans before I get a result instead of 18? What's the point?
By making probing easier for the explorers they're shafted the recon probers. Noob griefers in high sec loved the new probe system, I hated it. They then shifted the balance in the completely opposite direction. I like it a little better because most noobs don't bother any more, like in the old days, but I still hate it. Make the chance to get a result anything you want to make it easier or harder and it's still chance based noobified system. It's a cop out to true difficulty and the skill you need to learn difficult things.
Why not remove all aspects of transversal, optimal, tracking etc from combat because that's basically what's been done to probing. Taking the skill from the player and replacing it with pure skillpoint based outcomes. I have more sp than you = I win. You have more than me = you win.
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Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus
I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
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