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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.01.05 22:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Humpalot on 05/01/2007 22:28:55
In another thread in the General forum people are talking of ways to get more people into low sec (0.1 - 0.4) space. I'll post a piece of what I wrote there when someone suggested low sec mining was 3x more profitable.
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So, 3x more profitable? Let's see how that works if you want to pull it off:
- You need guards so you need to spread your earning among the guards
- Speaking of guards add the trouble of rounding up enough for a decent cover. Only thing ore boring than mining is guarding miners.
- You really need to mine in a cheap mining ship...forget Hulks or Covetors with MSM-IIs and a hold of T2 crystals thus severly nerfing your mining income.
- Even with guards expect to get driven off every 30 minutes or so on average. Wait while fight resolves itself or pirates decide to stop warpingin and out and taking pot shots at your cans and go somewhere else.
In the end the extra value of the ore there nowhere near compensates for the trouble and most miners make far more in hi-sec.
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So here is my idea...
A super tanked mining barge. Basically think of a dreadnought in siege mode except it's a mining barge. The barge need not mine any more than a tricked out Covetor or Hulk but what it would do is go into "tank mode" where it would get a HUGE tanking boost (along the lines of a Freighter in terms of total HP). While in this mode it could not initiate warp but it could move at its usual slowpoke pace (so it can troll the belt). It would take 5 minutes for the ship to leave "tank mode".
While in this mode it can be warp scrambled and webbed and anything else people want to do to it.
The problem I have seen mining in low sec even with guards is pirates still try to gank the miners/haulers before they even think about the guards and generally they can get away with it. If the barge is so thoroughly tanked that it takes even a sizeable gank squad several minutes to drop one then they really HAVE to deal with the guards first.
If the miner is going solo he cannot just zip out on his own at the first sign of trouble (5 minute delay to warp and he's probably scrambled anyway). This gives pirates a real opportunity to ransom the guy. Pirate can tell him it is just a matter of time till we ***** the tank (which BTW on a barge has no good way of regenerating itself at a good rate...just a matter of whittling away at him). Miner can pay the ransom or hope, if he has buddies nearby, that help will arrive in time.
This in no way unhinges tanking NPC spawns either which aren't too hard anway. A properly setup Hulk can tank many 0.0 battleship spawns today as it is.
So, miners who get a good guard have a reason to think they can live in low sec. Pirates have more miners in low sec to chase. Maybe some good fights between the guards and the pirates. Or so it seems to me.
Ideas? Flames?
Edit: Maybe like Dreads such barges are only allowed (or allowed to go in to tank mode) in 0.4 or lower space so people could still go after macro miners in hi sec as usual.
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Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.05 23:22:00 -
[2]
This ties into the idea of a capital miner. There are a lot of good arguments on the topic, both for and against. Someone will no doubt post them more succinctly than I could.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.01.06 08:39:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Humpalot on 06/01/2007 08:36:56
 Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
This ties into the idea of a capital miner. There are a lot of good arguments on the topic, both for and against.
I realize to some extent I am treading in the capital miner territory although that really is not what I am on about.
I am proposing a fundamental change to existing barges. My idea above is to allow miners a reasonable expectation of success in low sec while mining so they will bother to attempt it (at least more than they do now).
By no means am I trying to write miners a blank check to low sec. I believe with the above proposal BOTH miners and pirates stand to win (i.e. have more fun). By drawing miners and guards into low sec you start to seriously stir the pot. The potential for conflict and rewards escalates for both sides.
As it stands very few find it profitable or fun and certainly not worth the effort to venture to low sec to mine (certainly some do but in the scheme of things very few). Allow the barges a chance to ride out an attack and let the guards and pirates go at it.
Of course where the lines are drawn (i.e. what level barges get this, how many HP we are talking about and so on) are a matter for CCP to balance. But a reasonably attainable chance to mine low sec should be welcomed by all. If you make this only a future "capital" miner that only 20 people in EVE could fly it defeats the purpose of encouraging many people to low sec.
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galadran
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Posted - 2007.01.06 18:16:00 -
[4]
I think that instead of introducing any new ship, instead introduce a shield spreading ability. A ship could extend its shields to cover the miner or hauler or whatever and any shots aimed at it would have to go through the 'sharing' ship first. So before the miner takes any damage the guard would have to lose their shields first.
It would take a midslot on the guard and the person who was recieving the shield would have to be within 1km at all times. Only one ship could be protected by someone elses shields at a time. In addition there the ship that was getting shielded would have a sig increase depending on the amount of shields shared. So a battleship shielding a frigate would have a massive sig penalty. Of course for haulers the sig increase won't really matter.
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At'lana Tir'freven
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2007.01.06 21:17:00 -
[5]
OMG lets not make 0sec space more carebearish ... your alliance and your corperation is there to protect you. If you dont like the area you mine in ... either exodus your butt back to empire space where you can mine in safety for breadcrumbs or goto a different more secured area of 0.0 space. 0.0 space is inherantly DANGEROUS meaning that things like mining barges should be smashed like tin foil out there.
P.S. Oh and eve already has your uber mining vessels in the game ALREADY ... its called an exhumer and if you dont believe me then go find and download the fraps of the hulk killing the thorax pirate. RESISTS FTW !!!
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Kirika Misono
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Posted - 2007.01.07 03:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: At'lana Tir'freven
OMG lets not make 0sec space more carebearish ... your alliance and your corperation is there to protect you. If you dont like the area you mine in ... either exodus your butt back to empire space where you can mine in safety for breadcrumbs or goto a different more secured area of 0.0 space. 0.0 space is inherantly DANGEROUS meaning that things like mining barges should be smashed like tin foil out there.
P.S. Oh and eve already has your uber mining vessels in the game ALREADY ... its called an exhumer and if you dont believe me then go find and download the fraps of the hulk killing the thorax pirate. RESISTS FTW !!!
Um, please note, not ever corp/alliance can have two Titans and an entire fleet gaurd a mining op. And, btw: a dedicated heavy barge for low sec that DOESN'T cost 500m (before mods, at current prices) would be nice, I think.
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At'lana Tir'freven
Caldari
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2007.01.07 13:31:00 -
[7]
Its called an apoc + mining barge. apoc to tank and mining barge to mine. and if you do not have a setup to mine in 0.0 space well ... maybe you just shouldnt mine out there then.
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Petrothian Tong
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Posted - 2007.01.07 19:16:00 -
[8]
I would be happy to use my barges if they arent so fragile...
heck just make them more resilent.. I mean... right now is hard to survive a susicde gank in anything below an hulk, and even a hulk too if theres enough caracals...
I would be happy even if just the hull hp gets doubled..
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Grammer
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Posted - 2007.01.08 04:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: galadran
I think that instead of introducing any new ship, instead introduce a shield spreading ability. A ship could extend its shields to cover the miner or hauler or whatever and any shots aimed at it would have to go through the 'sharing' ship first. So before the miner takes any damage the guard would have to lose their shields first.
It would take a midslot on the guard and the person who was recieving the shield would have to be within 1km at all times. Only one ship could be protected by someone elses shields at a time. In addition there the ship that was getting shielded would have a sig increase depending on the amount of shields shared. So a battleship shielding a frigate would have a massive sig penalty. Of course for haulers the sig increase won't really matter.
yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Roddic
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.01.08 05:53:00 -
[10]
i would pfrefer a different type of cloak for miner ships. make it a rig or something.
call it the camoflarge rig and make a specific, skill to use it, that needs both cov ops, and cloaking to use. essentially the miner targets an asterroind with the rig, and the rig alters the apperance of the ship based on the complexity of the taget and the skill of the user. ie, veldspar is really easy to duplicate. omber with is golden patches or jaspet with its cystaline structure is alot harder.
also while in this form mining lasers are undetectable. or make a steathed minning laser that works only on stealthed or camo'd ships and only while stealthed or in camo.
of course there has to be a reasonable counter to this, but i firmly belive the counter means should also depend on a the same skills and a counter stealth rig, so essentially if there skill is at level 5 and yours is at level 1 then your chances of detecting them should be quite small, however if its the other way around then there chances of hiding from you should be small as well, when skill and counter skill are at same level then it should be a 50:50 chance.
look at it this way, if you don't understand the technology being used to cloak a ship, then how would you expect there to be one.
and once local chat is finally abolished then the real exitment will really begin.
cheers,
R.
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Galan Amarias
Amarr
The Drekla Consortium
Kurai Komichi
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Posted - 2007.01.08 08:19:00 -
[11]
How about we just assign some crappy tracking speed to a stripminer and let them pull trit out of the other guy's hull. You see an Apoc they see mobile Veldspar :P
-Galan
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Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2007.01.08 09:39:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Galan Amarias
How about we just assign some crappy tracking speed to a stripminer and let them pull trit out of the other guy's hull. You see an Apoc they see mobile Veldspar :P
-Galan
but let the damage get directly trough shield and armor into the hull
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.01.08 18:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: At'lana Tir'freven
OMG lets not make 0sec space more carebearish ... your alliance and your corperation is there to protect you. If you dont like the area you mine in ... either exodus your butt back to empire space where you can mine in safety for breadcrumbs or goto a different more secured area of 0.0 space. 0.0 space is inherantly DANGEROUS meaning that things like mining barges should be smashed like tin foil out there.
P.S. Oh and eve already has your uber mining vessels in the game ALREADY ... its called an exhumer and if you dont believe me then go find and download the fraps of the hulk killing the thorax pirate. RESISTS FTW !!!
You're missing the point. Mining in 0.0 is a breeze with a Hulk as it is. Sitting nice and safe deep within your alliance's territory it is arguably safer than mining in hi sec space where suicide gankers can get you. It is 0.1 - 0.4 where the real danger lies.
Note I am not trying ot make mining more carebearish. Indeed this would probably draw more people to low sec giving pirates more targets. The current issue is mining in low sec is NOT profitable compared to hi sec when you have to run your ship off every 20 minutes when a pirate swings through. Even with guards mining ships are often targetted first and they pop fast. Remember the pirates get the first shot unless your guards are willing to take a sec hit to shoot first.
The idea in the OP would allow a barge to live awhile such that the guards simply must be dealt with first. The barge is going nowhere so if the guards lose the pirate still gets the barge. If someone tries to solo mine with this they are a sitting duck. Sure it might take awhile to pop it but pop it will. Since it would take a fair amount of time there is even a better possibility for ransom if the pirate chooses.
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