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Kerushi Caldari BIG	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:06:00 - [31] or just zip it and mail it to your self as it`s only ~200kb unzipped BIG Forum \| Deal \| Bank
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:07:00 - [32] Originally by: CrayC FLOPPY! I use a usb memory stick because i live in the year of 2007... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:08:00 - [33] Originally by: EVE Settings Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/01/2007 17:58:14 An alternative to making it open source would be to make it web based. Allow people to upload their settings to your server, using a web browser. Then they can choose what files to upload. With the server backend in place that could be easily achieved ... using the same authentication, licensing etc. Thats what I was thinking. :) I encourage people to develop stuff for Eve, its a lot of fun to see programmers want to help people. But the trust issue is important, so you have to work around it. :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
RaTTuS BIG	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:09:00 - [34] Originally by: Kerushi or just zip it and mail it to your self as it`s only ~200kb unzipped gmail FTW -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal \| RaTTuS @ Skills Showroom
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:10:00 - [35] Originally by: Dark Shikari Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/01/2007 18:03:10 Originally by: EVE Settings I just wanted to know if people would be interested to see something like it or use it. THEN ... and only then a decission will be made if OpenSource, ClosedSource or whatever. Originally by: EVE Settings Source Code ? No, never ever. ONLY to Crowd Control Games by request and there only client-side ... since the server side don't matter anyhow. Or not For now, since all you coders want to have a shot at it. But let it be known: Your opinion was duly noted ! You now can go and visit some other thread.
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:12:00 - [36] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: EVE Settings Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/01/2007 17:58:14 An alternative to making it open source would be to make it web based. Allow people to upload their settings to your server, using a web browser. Then they can choose what files to upload. With the server backend in place that could be easily achieved ... using the same authentication, licensing etc. Thats what I was thinking. :) I encourage people to develop stuff for Eve, its a lot of fun to see programmers want to help people. But the trust issue is important, so you have to work around it. :) That only leaves them to think "which file do I need to upload !". Multiple choice there ... prone to errors.
Salore	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:12:00 - [37] Originally by: Dark Shikar No open source, no deal. It's a .NET app, when it released just about anyone can view the source with tools like reflector. If its obfuscated, then I would be even more suspicious.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:13:00 - [38] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/01/2007 18:09:48 Originally by: EVE Settings That only leaves them to think "which file do I need to upload !". Multiple choice there ... prone to errors. Yep, always pros and cons with all choices in software design. Usually the more automated it gets, the more insecure it gets too. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:14:00 - [39] Originally by: Salore Originally by: Dark Shikar No open source, no deal. It's a .NET app, when it released just about anyone can view the source with tools like reflector. If its obfuscated, then I would be even more suspicious. If its not, he might as well release the source code. Because as you say, otherwise you pretty much see what it does in clear text... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:17:00 - [40] Originally by: Salore Originally by: Dark Shikar No open source, no deal. It's a .NET app, when it released just about anyone can view the source with tools like reflector. If its obfuscated, then I would be even more suspicious. True. I guess we will wait and see then as to whether it is obfuscated or not. -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:17:00 - [41] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: CrayC FLOPPY! I use a usb memory stick because i live in the year of 2007... Yeah, but try getting that to fit in one word... USBMemoryStick?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:20:00 - [42] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/01/2007 18:17:00 Originally by: CrayC Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: CrayC FLOPPY! I use a usb memory stick because i live in the year of 2007... Yeah, but try getting that to fit in one word... USBMemoryStick? I just say "put it on the usb". :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:20:00 - [43] Originally by: Kerushi or just zip it and mail it to your self as it`s only ~200kb unzipped You are not seing the point here. The client.exe would upload the file for you ( encrypted ) and you could restore ANY previous /settings folder files. Naturally ... what you describe ( use this and that and do it there at some free site, or USB sticks etc ) I have used for the longest time before I wrote the application to sync 4+ computers. But if I forget the USB Stick ... delete the e-mail etc. the settings are not obtainable. I try to create something that is easily accessible via internet ... from whatever location you are in ( being it the parents house, the gf's house, the dorm etc ) Extending the application to actually WIPE the files that you downloaded BEFORE you started the client is not hard. But if you are in a public place I just so hope that you can't even install the client.exe to download your settings. If not, avoid the place. Regards, EVE Settings.
Agito Gravis	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:23:00 - [44] Originally by: CrayC Originally by: Jim McGregor I use a usb memory stick because i live in the year of 2007... Yeah, but try getting that to fit in one word... USBMemoryStick? Thumbdrive. Pendrive.
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:25:00 - [45] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/01/2007 18:09:48 Originally by: EVE Settings That only leaves them to think "which file do I need to upload !". Multiple choice there ... prone to errors. Yep, always pros and cons with all choices in software design. Usually the more automated it gets, the more insecure it gets too. Been there, done that ... But as mentioned before ... this is not a DOWNLOAD HERE ... thread ... it's a thread that should play with the pros and cons. At the moment it looks like a few forum heavy people have decided to give it a NAY vote. Duly noted. On the other hand ... maybe CCP takes note of the thread and implements it in the client ... wouldn't that be nice and useful ? If they ask Chribba nicely he might even provide the bandwith, hosting etc.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:27:00 - [46] Originally by: EVE Settings At the moment it looks like a few forum heavy people have decided to give it a NAY vote. Duly noted. Only because of the security thing. Work around that and you'll be fine. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:29:00 - [47] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Salore Originally by: Dark Shikar No open source, no deal. It's a .NET app, when it released just about anyone can view the source with tools like reflector. If its obfuscated, then I would be even more suspicious. True. I guess we will wait and see then as to whether it is obfuscated or not. If I don't obfuscate or as I prefer CodeVeil I open a bigger can of worms. I expose the SOAP server architecture behind it and then the real hacking begins.
Kerushi Caldari BIG	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:29:00 - [48] ur fighting against urself allready been said that IF it was made open source, it MIGHT be used aslong as it is NOT open source, u can do what ever u want on people`s pc`s and take/use what u want make it open source and announce it again or keep it closed source and use it privatly, i doubt anyone will risk it if they have a grain of brain BIG Forum \| Deal \| Bank
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:31:00 - [49] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/01/2007 18:29:05 Originally by: EVE Settings I expose the SOAP server architecture behind it and then the real hacking begins. Actually its considered more safe with open source, since both hackers and "anti-hackers" can view it. Security through obscurity has failed again and again im afraid. I wouldnt be surprised if you got some really good tips on how to make the code better if you choose to share it. Lots of people are probably extreamly good programmers here (not saying you arent, but nobody is perfect, right?). :) --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Salore	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:32:00 - [50] Originally by: EVE Settings I expose the SOAP server architecture behind it and then the real hacking begins. Not if done properly. But as you say, it shouldn't matter if your not storing anything "private" on the server end, correct?
Ander Gallente Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:34:00 - [51] This project does not get my seal of approval... Why should people risk their account-information just so you can keep the project as a money-maker? - Let people run their own servers to backup settings. This does not only reduce the risk of having a central server which gets hacked and account info stolen. - Open-source this project, people will still donate if they like it... RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/01/2007 18:29:05 Originally by: EVE Settings I expose the SOAP server architecture behind it and then the real hacking begins. Actually its considered more safe with open source, since both hackers and "anti-hackers" can view it. Security through obscurity has failed again and again im afraid. I wouldnt be surprised if you got some really good tips on how to make the code better if you choose to share it. Lots of people are probably extreamly good programmers here (not saying you arent, but nobody is perfect, right?). :) Coming out of a competitive corporate biz and this would be my first public, to the masses release ... I think I caught wind of a heavy OpenSource drift now.
Salore	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:36:00 - [53] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/01/2007 18:29:05 Originally by: EVE Settings I expose the SOAP server architecture behind it and then the real hacking begins. Actually its considered more safe with open source, since both hackers and "anti-hackers" can view it. Security through obscurity has failed again and again im afraid. I wouldnt be surprised if you got some really good tips on how to make the code better if you choose to share it. Lots of people are probably extreamly good programmers here (not saying you arent, but nobody is perfect, right?). :) If the encryption is done properly, meaning that the user contributes to the key in some way, and that private data is not sent or persisted in anyway, locally or remote, then you should have zero problems making it open source. The data on the server side should never be able to be unencrypted.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:37:00 - [54] Originally by: EVE Settings Coming out of a competitive corporate biz and this would be my first public, to the masses release ... I think I caught wind of a heavy OpenSource drift now. Just a suggestion. :) I mean, it would also serve to showcase your mad skillz. Not a bad thing. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:38:00 - [55] Originally by: Ander This project does not get my seal of approval... Why should people risk their account-information just so you can keep the project as a money-maker? - Let people run their own servers to backup settings. This does not only reduce the risk of having a central server which gets hacked and account info stolen. - Open-source this project, people will still donate if they like it... So ... server and client side into OpenSource ?
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:39:00 - [56] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: EVE Settings Coming out of a competitive corporate biz and this would be my first public, to the masses release ... I think I caught wind of a heavy OpenSource drift now. Just a suggestion. :) I mean, it would also serve to showcase your mad skillz. Not a bad thing. Don't need that ... I am well settled in on the showcase side :)
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:41:00 - [57] Originally by: EVE Settings Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: EVE Settings Coming out of a competitive corporate biz and this would be my first public, to the masses release ... I think I caught wind of a heavy OpenSource drift now. Just a suggestion. :) I mean, it would also serve to showcase your mad skillz. Not a bad thing. Don't need that ... I am well settled in on the showcase side :) Then help Garth fix the damn website... --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:42:00 - [58] Originally by: Salore Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 08/01/2007 18:29:05 Originally by: EVE Settings I expose the SOAP server architecture behind it and then the real hacking begins. Actually its considered more safe with open source, since both hackers and "anti-hackers" can view it. Security through obscurity has failed again and again im afraid. I wouldnt be surprised if you got some really good tips on how to make the code better if you choose to share it. Lots of people are probably extreamly good programmers here (not saying you arent, but nobody is perfect, right?). :) If the encryption is done properly, meaning that the user contributes to the key in some way, and that private data is not sent or persisted in anyway, locally or remote, then you should have zero problems making it open source. The data on the server side should never be able to be unencrypted. They user can add the key to the app.config file or when needed enter it ... his choice. The data server sided is just a BLOB field in the database. I am more concerned about hammering the SOAP functions to kingdom come and breaking the server down, DDoS attacks etc. Naturally the servers are well protected and security measures in place to ban IP, accts etc firewall sided.
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:43:00 - [59] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: EVE Settings Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: EVE Settings Coming out of a competitive corporate biz and this would be my first public, to the masses release ... I think I caught wind of a heavy OpenSource drift now. Just a suggestion. :) I mean, it would also serve to showcase your mad skillz. Not a bad thing. Don't need that ... I am well settled in on the showcase side :) Then help Garth fix the damn website... ROFL
EVE Settings	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:48:00 - [60] Originally by: Ander This project does not get my seal of approval... Why should people risk their account-information just so you can keep the project as a money-maker? - Let people run their own servers to backup settings. This does not only reduce the risk of having a central server which gets hacked and account info stolen. - Open-source this project, people will still donate if they like it... How would you propose to create a package so that people can run their own server ? I can use VistaDB 3.0 ( almost MSSQL 2005 compliant and somewhere near release ) for the database ... but you would need ASP.NET 2.0 hosting with static IP for it also. Unless you use DynaDNS or similar.

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