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Milana Arkani
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:07:00 -
[1]
OK, now this is a little irritating... After getting overwhelmingly bushwhacked by pirates [in T2 battleships and recon, btw] in 0.4 space (Aunenen) the other night (that's fine, perhaps my fault due to not *immediately* warping between stargates), I ventured from the safety of my base in my replacement Ibis tonight to simply return to my higher sec home. So, here's what happened: I quickly lined up with the appropriate stargate out (to 0.5 space), and I hit "Warp to 0m." However, the moment I dropped out of warp at that gate, I was immediately attacked by a -10 security status gatecamper, who immediately proceeded to warp scramble, pop, and podkill me. My question is simply this: Aren't there supposed to be sentry guns at those gates, even in 0.4 space?
Knowledgebase indicates: "In 0.5 space and below, sentries have a maximum range of 150 km from the protected target.
How are gate campers able to camp stargates that are protected by sentry guns?
If the gate campers stay outside of sentry gun range (about 150 km) they can shoot at players that are within range without the sentry guns being able to shoot at them. The sentry guns simply can't lock on them if they are out of range. If you are attacked by players who are using this tactic then you can shoot back without the sentry guns intervening; just make sure that the player you are shooting at had fired first. If he only locks you, you will be considered the aggressor if you shoot. Also, if you fight you will not be able to jump for a few seconds, so you will have to choose if you want to fight or jump. You can't do both. If your corporations are at war you can shoot at members of the opponent corporation anywhere without sentry gun/concord intervention. In addition, note that some players may have ship configurations that are able to withstand sentry gun fire for a certain amount of time."
Since I warped to 0m, shouldn't I have been within range of the sentry guns' protection?
Fwiw: Here's the game log: ------------------------------------------------------------ Gamelog Listener: Milana Arkani Session started: 2007.01.09 05:18:28 ------------------------------------------------------------ [ 2007.01.09 05:23:09 ] (notify) Warping to Stargate (Nonni) [ 2007.01.09 05:24:04 ] (notify) SiLeNTFoRCe: You have foolishly engaged in criminal activity within sight of sentry guns and must suffer the consequences. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:06 ] (notify) SiLeNTFoRCe [I D](Drake) has started trying to warp scramble you. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:08 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Havoc Heavy Missile belonging to SiLeNTFoRCe hits you, doing 37.7 damage. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:08 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Havoc Heavy Missile belonging to SiLeNTFoRCe hits you, doing 37.7 damage. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:08 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Havoc Heavy Missile belonging to SiLeNTFoRCe hits you, doing 37.7 damage. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:08 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Thunderbolt Heavy Missile belonging to SiLeNTFoRCe hits you, doing 40.6 damage. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:08 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Thunderbolt Heavy Missile belonging to SiLeNTFoRCe hits you, doing 37.7 damage. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:08 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Thunderbolt Heavy Missile belonging to SiLeNTFoRCe hits you, doing 37.7 damage. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:08 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Havoc Heavy Missile belonging to SiLeNTFoRCe hits you, doing 88.5 damage. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:16 ] (notify) SiLeNTFoRCe: You have foolishly engaged in criminal activity within sight of sentry guns and must suffer the consequences. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:17 ] (combat) <color=0xffbb6600>Havoc Heavy Missile belonging to SiLeNTFoRCe hits you, doing 93.0 damage. [ 2007.01.09 05:24:17 ] (notify) Can't do that while undocking.<br>You should be squeezed out in 30 seconds. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So... My simple question: Where are those f***ing sentry guns?
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Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:15:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Trillian Mcmillan on 09/01/2007 06:15:53
The turrets were there and hitting him.
However...
Your killer was flying a drake, one of the best tanks in this game. Even with a half assed tank that ship can withstand sentry turret fire for a long time.
Btw any BC, BS, HAC or CS can tank the turrets if he has prepared himself for it. Many cruisers can do it too,and with some logistical support assault frigates and even certain t1 frigs. I have even seen brave interceptor pilots tackle under the threat of sentry fire for short periods of time.
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Thor Ba'aleron
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:15:00 -
[3]
A drake can tank sentries for a while. They aren't the stupid concord insta-pop squad and thank god they are not.
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themule
Caldari Insane Decision
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:16:00 -
[4]
Ah good to see my corp was keeping up the camping last night without me. Oh and you can tank sentrys.
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Milana Arkani
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:37:00 -
[5]
Thanks. Good to know... So, that seems to fall within the category of: "... some players may have ship configurations that are able to withstand sentry gun fire for a certain amount of time." But if that's the case, then why even bother having sentry guns? If many ships can withstand them, then wouldn't that seem to render sentry guns relatively pointless?
Perhaps the sentry guns in higher sec space are more buff? (Who knows...) But I do know this: Having to learn the rules of EVE this way (via trial and error, aka "the hard way") really sux, imo... Milana Arkani
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:40:00 -
[6]
fly what u can afford to loose in this case u didnt and u got popped and can i have youre stuff
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:42:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Milana Arkani Thanks. Good to know... So, that seems to fall within the category of: "... some players may have ship configurations that are able to withstand sentry gun fire for a certain amount of time." But if that's the case, then why even bother having sentry guns? If many ships can withstand them, then wouldn't that seem to render sentry guns relatively pointless?
Perhaps the sentry guns in higher sec space are more buff? (Who knows...) But I do know this: Having to learn the rules of EVE this way (via trial and error, aka "the hard way") really sux, imo... Milana Arkani
There are more sentry guns in highsec and Concord are also there (Concord hurt far more than sentry guns)
Yes, in EvE you learn the hard way but you remember those lessons better.
I happened to see 3 of these guys kill a rokh last night in drakes (I was in a covert). It was nicely done but I couldn't help feeling the rokh pilot was a bit of a nub.
Live and learn, or in EvEs case, die and learn
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Milana Arkani
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: hotgirl933 fly what u can afford to loose in this case u didnt and u got popped and can i have youre stuff
On the contrary, I did exactly that, you idiot.
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deathforge
The Accursed
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Milana Arkani Thanks. Good to know... So, that seems to fall within the category of: "... some players may have ship configurations that are able to withstand sentry gun fire for a certain amount of time." But if that's the case, then why even bother having sentry guns? If many ships can withstand them, then wouldn't that seem to render sentry guns relatively pointless?
Perhaps the sentry guns in higher sec space are more buff? (Who knows...) But I do know this: Having to learn the rules of EVE this way (via trial and error, aka "the hard way") really sux, imo... Milana Arkani
Without the guns ceptors could come gate camp, and lock down damn near anything before it warps out. Forcing the campers to use larger ships, having longer lock times, gives a higher survival rate. Even a sadistic griefing bastard such as myself can acknlowledge that.
And the sentry guns in high sec are the same, they're simply more numberous and assisted by the respective faction navies and concord depending on system security (and how long the navy/sentries take to kill you, suicide ganking teaches you nifty details of high sec enforcement)
As for learning it the hard way, you'll be better off in the long run (if for nothing more than a funny story to tell). I can't even count how many times i warped to station/gates with a global flag in my early days, pirates don't have some hidden manual with all these little details in it either.
PS: next time, jump out
Low skillpoint rifter video: Linkage |
Trillian Mcmillan
Cry Me A River Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Milana Arkani
But if that's the case, then why even bother having sentry guns? If many ships can withstand them, then wouldn't that seem to render sentry guns relatively pointless?
They can withstand them... But, usually, just barely. Had you been in a ship capable of fighting back the sentries would have been a great addition to your dps and certainly put the attacker at a serious disadvantage.
They have their purpose and they do offer you a certain amount of protection. Its nowhere near complete protection tough.
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Milana Arkani
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Posted - 2007.01.09 06:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
There are more sentry guns in highsec and Concord are also there (Concord hurt far more than sentry guns)
Yes, in EvE you learn the hard way but you remember those lessons better.
I happened to see 3 of these guys kill a rokh last night in drakes (I was in a covert). It was nicely done but I couldn't help feeling the rokh pilot was a bit of a nub.
Live and learn, or in EvEs case, die and learn
Yes, I agree, and I think you have the right attitude.
(On the one hand, it really sux having to learn this way, but on the other hand, you're right, the lessons are extremely memorable, and such experiences do increase the level of challenge.)
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Milana Arkani
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Posted - 2007.01.09 07:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: deathforge
PS: next time, jump out
Thanks for your comments, deathforge.
Btw: I couldn't seem to use the jumpgate, if that's what you mean. Not sure why...
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.01.09 07:25:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Milana Arkani
Originally by: deathforge
PS: next time, jump out
Thanks for your comments, deathforge.
Btw: I couldn't seem to use the jumpgate, if that's what you mean. Not sure why...
I don't see messagges about activing the stargate. If you had tryed and the system weren't responding you can try petitioning (if you have lost some implant, not for the ibis obwiously).
And most important, if the gate wasn't functioning do a bug report, with time and location.
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Milana Arkani
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Posted - 2007.01.09 07:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trillian Mcmillan
They can withstand them... But, usually, just barely. Had you been in a ship capable of fighting back the sentries would have been a great addition to your dps and certainly put the attacker at a serious disadvantage.
They have their purpose and they do offer you a certain amount of protection. Its nowhere near complete protection tough.
Thanks for your comments, Trillian. Yeah, for now, I'm simply going to stay in high sec space.
The really odd thing: I've been flying around (even in low sec space) for months now without a single hostile player encounter, and now suddenly, within 24 hours, I've lost two ships to absolutely overwhelming ambushes within the same freakish 0.4 system.
Note to bounty hunters: Aunenen may be a good place to hunt.
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Milana Arkani
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Posted - 2007.01.09 07:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I don't see messagges about activing the stargate. If you had tryed and the system weren't responding you can try petitioning (if you have lost some implant, not for the ibis obwiously).
And most important, if the gate wasn't functioning do a bug report, with time and location.
Yeah, that was either due to lag (there were actually a several other ships (~3 or 4, iirc) present at the gate at that same moment, some seemingly already exchanging fire; not sure how many exactly were pirates vs. victims) or perhaps it was my bad. But I know I attempted to both activate the gate and to warp out, as quickly as possible.
But, as you can see, I was popped within just seconds... It all happened very quickly. Don't know that I can blame this on a faulty stargate. But thanks for your comments.
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.01.09 08:00:00 -
[16]
yeah the jump queues are bad enough - that may have been why it lagged out seems a common occourance atm
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The Ghostwolf
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Posted - 2007.01.09 08:29:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Milana Arkani [ 2007.01.09 05:24:17 ] (notify) Can't do that while undocking.<br>You should be squeezed out in 30 seconds.
Thats your problem right there. Sometimes it tells me that if i try to go through a gate too soon after undocking. When you undock sit outsite the station for a few seconds before warping to the gate.
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.01.09 08:41:00 -
[18]
session change can lead to some issues
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Milana Arkani
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Posted - 2007.01.09 09:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: The Ghostwolf
Originally by: Milana Arkani [ 2007.01.09 05:24:17 ] (notify) Can't do that while undocking.<br>You should be squeezed out in 30 seconds.
Thats your problem right there. Sometimes it tells me that if i try to go through a gate too soon after undocking. When you undock sit outsite the station for a few seconds before warping to the gate.
Very interesting point. Thanks.
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Allishia
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Posted - 2007.01.09 12:58:00 -
[20]
Since this is a sentry thread I have a quick question. If I want to test a ship against the Sentry guns can I just align to a planet and shoot at em? I figured I could to see how long I could tank but having never done it before I was afraid that if you attack a gate directly maybe they whip out some sort of scramble on ya. This would be in a 0.4.
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Romeda
Minmatar Trojan industries
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Posted - 2007.01.09 13:00:00 -
[21]
Yes you can easily tank the sentry guns, sadly most piracy is done around gates it's easy and does not require skill or thinking like hunter and prey, it's EVE's form of counter strike.
Something needs to be done to take piracy away from the gates and form it into something else, I would like to see some better incentives to make pirates actually use the tools available to them and go and hunt prey. instead all we have is groups of campers ganking peeps for killboard points.
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Alliaanna Dalaii
Gallente Does Not Compute
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Posted - 2007.01.09 13:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Romeda Yes you can easily tank the sentry guns, sadly most piracy is done around gates it's easy and does not require skill or thinking like hunter and prey, it's EVE's form of counter strike.
Something needs to be done to take piracy away from the gates and form it into something else, I would like to see some better incentives to make pirates actually use the tools available to them and go and hunt prey. instead all we have is groups of campers ganking peeps for killboard points.
Umm ok so I mainly fly Cruisers & HaC's so belt hunt.. BUT.
If you honestly believe going battleship V battleship in front of the sentries requires no skill or thinking and requires NO RISK you need your head examined.
Not all pirates gank in packs, for the solo player sentry tanking is actually fairly risky vs a similar target. All it takes is for one target to have some NOS and a scram and it's game over.
Look at Ginger Magician, His battleship got owned by a Bc at a gate. Bc + Sentrys = Pain if it wants to fight.
Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
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deathforge
The Accursed
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Posted - 2007.01.09 14:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
Originally by: Romeda Yes you can easily tank the sentry guns, sadly most piracy is done around gates it's easy and does not require skill or thinking like hunter and prey, it's EVE's form of counter strike.
Something needs to be done to take piracy away from the gates and form it into something else, I would like to see some better incentives to make pirates actually use the tools available to them and go and hunt prey. instead all we have is groups of campers ganking peeps for killboard points.
If you honestly believe going battleship V battleship in front of the sentries requires no skill or thinking and requires NO RISK you need your head examined.
Bingo. Under sentry fire, on a gate, through which more people can come with you flagged and engaged, fighting even a similar ship class, is not easy.
Embittered carebears have "interesting" views of piracy
Low skillpoint rifter video: Linkage |
DarkElf
Caldari DJ's Exotic Dancers Escorts
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Posted - 2007.01.09 14:58:00 -
[24]
there was another thread just like this running but i'll say here similar to what i said there. if there were no sentry guns in low sec then if i needed money i would just sit a ceptor with a few scrams on the gate and pop every singlke hauler and shuttle etc that came through and make lots of isk. as it is now u can't tank sentries alone in anything smaller than a cruiser and a cruiser can't take them for long tbh.
if u need to travel round low sec u can do so atm in a shuttle and only the most pro gate camps can stop u. without sentries u would barely ever be safe.
also god knows how he killed u before u could jump. especially considering he was using missiles ffs. if there was a jump queue or something then u would have a message in ur log saying. have no clue what that last message means but u might want to try a petition if u actually lost something if u genuinely couldn't jump.
DE
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Stakhanov
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.01.09 15:30:00 -
[25]
Well , good thing it happened to you while you were flying an empty ibis. It's normal for a newbie to be utterly terrorized by flashy red pirates and be unable to escape because of that. Hopefully you will react faster next time - a Drake can't lock a frigate before it warps out , even with a sensor booster. Much less a pod.
Besides technical interference such as session change , jump queues or horrible lag , warp to 0 always ensures your safety before you jump. Activate your autopilot mid-warp and you will automatically jump 1 second after dropping out of warp. Normally , pirates don't shoot ships that land next to the stargate.
Ships with a fast lock require heavy logistics to be kept alive while they scramble someone at the gate. This kind of gatecamp is very rare.
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Ridley Tree
The Black Rabbits
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Posted - 2007.01.09 17:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Romeda Yes you can easily tank the sentry guns, sadly most piracy is done around gates it's easy and does not require skill or thinking like hunter and prey, it's EVE's form of counter strike.
Something needs to be done to take piracy away from the gates and form it into something else, I would like to see some better incentives to make pirates actually use the tools available to them and go and hunt prey. instead all we have is groups of campers ganking peeps for killboard points.
Piracy occurs along the major shipping lanes of the world. Those lanes are the gates and the stations. Where exactly do you expect a pirate to pirate if not those major shipping lanes?
Mind you pirates still go after mission runners and pirates still scan the belts. But when you need to make some isk and you want to be a pirate, you go where the ships are. ---
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Thomas Torquemada
Minmatar Universal Peace Corp
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Posted - 2007.01.09 22:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Allishia Since this is a sentry thread I have a quick question. If I want to test a ship against the Sentry guns can I just align to a planet and shoot at em? I figured I could to see how long I could tank but having never done it before I was afraid that if you attack a gate directly maybe they whip out some sort of scramble on ya. This would be in a 0.4.
all you have to worry about is the damage.
UPC - PVP'ers Good and Bad, How Do You Want Peace? Through Talk Or In A Casket? We Decide!
Peace My Brothers... |
Idaeus
Gallente Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.01.09 22:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: themule Ah good to see my corp was keeping up the camping last night without me. Oh and you can tank sentrys.
Much love for ID.
+IOI? |
Robbie Boozecruise
Caldari calon lan
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Posted - 2007.01.09 23:26:00 -
[29]
sentry guns info
there are 2 of them they do 16 EM damage and 16 explosive damage 28 thermal and 28 kinetic they have a 3.5 dmg mod they have a 1.75 second rof
that adds up to 352 dps lets say with 70% resists across the board the guns will be doing: 4.8 explosive 4.8 em 8.4 kinetic 8.4 thermal this works out at a total dps of 105 dps
take a double repping BS that with tech 2 reppers that tanks 1600 dmg every 12 seconds which works out at 133 dps tanked
that means a double repping BS with all resists at 70% only needs a ship capable of doing 93dps to over come its tanking ability yes this is assuming the guns hit for a constant damage but in fact you do get some wrecking shots and some light hits so you are looking at a ship that does about 200 raw dps to be able to kill the pirate at a gate. but most of the time a warp scram will do the job fine as they will not have to cap to keep the tank running forever and they may have a dmg mod fitted so that the resists may not all be over 70%
so yet sentry guns are effective unless you have a gang when they cycle players every 30 seconds but if you are getting shot by the sentries in a gang and your tank is failing just get someone with a better tank to shoot the billboard and it will cycle onto them straight away or so i have found out.
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Slayton Ford
Caldari Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2007.01.09 23:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Stakhanov Well , good thing it happened to you while you were flying an empty ibis. It's normal for a newbie to be utterly terrorized by flashy red pirates and be unable to escape because of that. Hopefully you will react faster next time - a Drake can't lock a frigate before it warps out , even with a sensor booster. Much less a pod.
I found this out last week when a pirate in a amarr drone cruiser decided to chase me down through 3 belts before I turned and fought back. Unfortunatley for him I was in a Drake and his cruiser had nos and disrupters; items pretty much useless to a passive tanked drake. Oh, and I had a scrambler equipped also so after I popped him I went to pod him for the 1mil+ bounty and couldnt lock his pod in time to scramble.
Oh, another thing, if you need a ship to fly in once you get podded buy a shuttle. They are faster, more agile and have a smaller sig rad then a Ibis.
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