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Ezok Lyrad
Minmatar
SANDMADI EXPLORATION AND EXTRACTION KOMPANY
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Posted - 2007.01.10 07:47:00 -
[1]
Hello All,
I have this idea and wondered what you all might think about it. The economy of EVE seems to be way out of control. The division between Corporations that are extremely rich and those that are poor is great!
So here is an idea for balance. What if all the items put on the market deteriorated over time. This would make people lower the prices to move product. The rate of deterioration would of course have to be worked out and balanced so as not to cheat anyone too much. But it seems to me that if this was active the supple and demand would be made more real.
So there it is, let the flaming beginą.
thnx
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Nex Angelus
Caldari
Hypherians
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Posted - 2007.01.10 07:54:00 -
[2]
So... If I was to sell my car, as soon as I put an ad in a paper the car would begin to rust?
Go away...
...please
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Ryas Nia
Minmatar
Stormriders
Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.01.10 07:55:00 -
[3]
different idea, why not get your self or a friend into said overly rich corp/alliance, and rob them blind.
Its not up to the devs to balance the economy, we created it, we drive it, if you think the rich are too rich... well then steal it back.
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Drunken Cajun
F.R.E.E. Explorer
EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.01.10 08:04:00 -
[4]
Umm You could also just try working a bit harder for your isk. Find out what the better corps are doing and try and copy it.
Instead of bringing them down to you. You rise to them.
laissez les bon temps rouler |
Ezok Lyrad
Minmatar
SANDMADI EXPLORATION AND EXTRACTION KOMPANY
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Posted - 2007.01.10 08:17:00 -
[5]
Oh my my....such anger! It is just an idea. I am doing fine so you all do not need to worry about that. I have items on the market as well. I am just trying to look into something new but like all new ideas there will be arses that cannot talk about only yell at it... but as I said let the flaming begin, but maybe let see if we could talk about way this idea might be good or bad.
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Ezok Lyrad
Minmatar
SANDMADI EXPLORATION AND EXTRACTION KOMPANY
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Posted - 2007.01.10 08:19:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Ryas Nia
different idea, why not get your self or a friend into said overly rich corp/alliance, and rob them blind.
Its not up to the devs to balance the economy, we created it, we drive it, if you think the rich are too rich... well then steal it back.
Well the economy is not totally driven by the players now is it. So the Devs do influence it some don't they....taxes, broker fees, rentals, etc....
So lets discuss this idea plz not just raze it to the ground !
thnx again...
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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.10 09:08:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ezok Lyrad
Well the economy is not totally driven by the players now is it. So the Devs do influence it some don't they....taxes, broker fees, rentals, etc....
That's not developer influence, that's a set game mechanic, and there for a reason. For example, broker fees are there so that skills can reduce it, giving characters skilled specifically for trading an edge over Johnny average.
Yes, the market is almost totally player-driven. The only important items that are not player-driven trade are Skillbooks and BPOs. Granted, most of everything else is available from NPCs at a base price at a small handful of stations (depending on the item), but I have nearly never seen that base price actually hit. Generally players supply the same things cheaper.
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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.10 09:08:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ezok Lyrad
Well the economy is not totally driven by the players now is it. So the Devs do influence it some don't they....taxes, broker fees, rentals, etc....
That's not developer influence, that's a set game mechanic, and there for a reason. For example, broker fees are there so that skills can reduce it, giving characters skilled specifically for trading an edge over Johnny average.
Yes, the market is almost totally player-driven. The only important items that are not player-driven trade are Skillbooks and BPOs. Granted, most of everything else is available from NPCs at a base price at a small handful of stations (depending on the item), but I have nearly never seen that base price actually hit. Generally players supply the same things cheaper.
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Ezok Lyrad
Minmatar
SANDMADI EXPLORATION AND EXTRACTION KOMPANY
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Posted - 2007.01.10 09:14:00 -
[9]
Well lets talk about insurance too. I buy a ship and the insurance in no way covers the cost of replacement. The only time I have seen insurance work is with low end frigates. Anything higher especially faction ships is out of luck as the insurance does not come anywhere near what the real cost of the ship is! I think a set deterioration rate on items would on or off market would model a real life economy better!
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Ezok Lyrad
Minmatar
SANDMADI EXPLORATION AND EXTRACTION KOMPANY
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Posted - 2007.01.10 09:14:00 -
[10]
Well lets talk about insurance too. I buy a ship and the insurance in no way covers the cost of replacement. The only time I have seen insurance work is with low end frigates. Anything higher especially faction ships is out of luck as the insurance does not come anywhere near what the real cost of the ship is! I think a set deterioration rate on items would on or off market would model a real life economy better!
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Sales Merchant
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Posted - 2007.01.10 09:37:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ezok Lyrad
The division between Corporations that are extremely rich and those that are poor is great!
So here is an idea for balance.
Balance what!?? If someone is better at making isk than you in a player driven economy how's that the devs fault?
Nothing needs to be balanced, you just need to up your game.
_______
Irony (i+ro+ny) [ahy-ruh-nee]
Originally by: Ginger Magician
...this was not a fight it was simply a pathetic gank.
_______ |
Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.10 09:48:00 -
[12]
Insurance is based on the base price of the ship, which is in return based on the base price of the components that make up the ship. In this way, insurance always fully covers the production value of the ship.
Insurance does not take into account:
1.) Changes in mineral prices. The economy moves, as any economy will. If mineral prices rise, then insurance will no longer cover the building cost. On the other hand, that may allow you to "cheat the system" in return (right after revelations when tritanium prices exploded, it was possible to buy shuttles and reprocess them, selling the tritanium for more than you paid for the shuttle).
2.) Effort involved. Specifically tech 2 production takes production time, management time and skill time.
3.) Blueprint cost. A Navy Raven BPC is extremely expensive because the agents make you pay out of your butt before they hand you one. Yes, even loyalty points are a form of currency (and they ask major ISK too).
4.) Rarity. There will always be someone willing to pay nearly any price for a specific ship, for whatever reason. And if there's only one ship available, then the price will be set by that person, and it will be ridiculously out of bounds.
4.1) Status. You gotta pay the price to be with the cool kids. Didn't you learn when shopping clothes how a simple stamp can quintuple the price?  (yeah, I know it's stupid...)
4.2) Greed. If people can get away with charging price X, they will charge price X+1 and still get away with it.
Thus there will always be ships that are not covered by insurance. This by the way is exactly how a market works.
Also, you'll have to excuse me, but I don't understand how deteoriating items off the market would help fix the insurance problem or lower prices. In your model, you probably assume that if an item is on the market at a hypothetical, acceptable price, it will be bought then and there. This is not the case, because people are not logged on 23/7, and thus the 'ideal buyer' for that 'ideal item' may not be looking at the market for some 12+ hours or even days to come. That person looking for the item may also not have the money on hand by freak chance. Then that ideal item might decay off the market despite its good price.
If at all, this model would reduce the available volume of items and ships in the game, since items that are not bought will slowly disappear. This will immediately have the following effects:
1.) Contract trading explodes in popularity, if contracts are not affected (and there is no conceivable way they can be). After all, who wants to put an item on the market if there's a chance you'll lose it, however small? Finding items becomes more of a chore, due to the nearly nonexistant search and ordering fetaures. People are thus more inclined to buy the first thing they find so they don't have to bother. Prices rise.
2.) Due to the lowered supply from items disappearing versus constant demand, prices rise. This effect is amplified more the lower the current supply vs. demand ratio already is. In other words, the already expensive (read: tech 2 and faction) stuff will increase in price more, percentage-wise, than the cheap stuff.
3.) Minerals degrade off the market as well, thus increasing mineral prices as explained above. Since the market prices of some items are dictated entirely by their reprocessing mineral value (see Small Armor Repairer I for the prime example of all), higher mineral prices will increase those prices as well, even though they are NPC sold and thus theoretically in unlimited supply.
4.) People quitting the game over losing an expensive item/ship to market decay.
Now, I did fairly badly in my economics course in highschool, but this much I can easily predict... taking property away from people via an unexplainable plot device will in no way lower prices, ever. I'm not trying to flame you or anything, but it's just not going to work, not by any economic theory in existance. 
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Malcanis
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Posted - 2007.01.10 09:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ezok Lyrad
Hello All,
I have this idea and wondered what you all might think about it. The economy of EVE seems to be way out of control. The division between Corporations that are extremely rich and those that are poor is great!
So here is an idea for balance. What if all the items put on the market deteriorated over time. This would make people lower the prices to move product. The rate of deterioration would of course have to be worked out and balanced so as not to cheat anyone too much. But it seems to me that if this was active the supple and demand would be made more real.
So there it is, let the flaming beginą.
thnx
The game needs imbalances to create narrative and dramatic tension.
Compare:
Robin Hood stole from the rich to give to the poor.
Robin Hood stole from those slightly above median income to give to those slightly below.
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Ishina Fel
Caldari
Synergy.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.01.10 09:49:00 -
[14]
Ooops, didn't realize I produced such a horrible wall of text there 
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Apocrypha Gnostromo
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Posted - 2007.01.10 23:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Ezok Lyrad
Hello All,
I have this idea and wondered what you all might think about it. The economy of EVE seems to be way out of control. The division between Corporations that are extremely rich and those that are poor is great!
EVE rewards those who are brainy or brutal enough to take what they want.
This is the way it should be.
There's nothing imbalanced about it.
______________
"They're planning an attack. It's like they're using our own jetcans to plan their attack." |
Billy Sastard
Amarr
Zephyr Enterprises Inc.
Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.01.11 00:19:00 -
[16]
WOW Ghetto locks FTL!
Glad that people quoted the OP, otherwise I wouldnt know how crappy an idea it really was....
-=^=-
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Ezok Lyrad
Minmatar
SANDMADI EXPLORATION AND EXTRACTION KOMPANY
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Posted - 2007.01.11 00:19:00 -
[17]
THREAD CLOSED!
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.11 00:25:00 -
[18]
Unfortunately, as you do not have the multicoloured writing telling us you're a Mod, you don't get to make that decision 
Bad idea, by the by. Doesn't fit with the EVE way of doing things.
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Deckard Bishop
Forum Moderator
Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.01.11 00:32:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Patch86
Unfortunately, as you do not have the multicoloured writing telling us you're a Mod, you don't get to make that decision
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